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Trump follows through on trans military ban; Signs

holygeesus

Banned
Putting aside the loathsome bigotry for a moment, if this was truly just a cost issue - surely you have to replace the soldiers you are kicking out? Does this not cost more money than reassignment surgery would do in the first place?
 

darkwing

Member
Putting aside the loathsome bigotry for a moment, if this was truly just a cost issue - surely you have to replace the soldiers you are kicking out? Does this not cost more money than reassignment surgery would do in the first place?

yes, plus the experience , no replacing that
 

Horp

Member
How did we get here?! There is no veil anymore. It's just hate, discrimination and ignorance. Right in the open.
I feel so so so so bad for all the trans people out there. Not only in the military but everywhere. I'm sorry.
 
I was unhappy to notice that none of my ~150 cis FB friends saw fit to express outrage or any other sort of opinion about this today (posts flew hot and heavy about today's other news stories).

If you have a trans person in your life please go out of your way to let them know that you see them, and you care.
 
Posted this in the Arpaio thread, but also applies here. Just replace racism with transphobia, but the overlying point is the same and applies just as strongly and if anything even more clearly and harder to deny or look away from here:
No more. If it wasn't obvious before he was elected (which it should have been, see:being sued for housing discrimination, Central Park 5, etc, but nonetheless) it's extremely clear after both his response to Charlottesville and now pardoning Sheriff Arpaio that Trump is racist through and through to his bone. Thus, that being said, anyone who continues to support Trump is completely complicit in that racism.

You might say that you only support Trump because he's taken pro-life positions on abortion, that he's trying to create jobs, etc. And that might indeed be why you support him and you absolutely hate the fact that he's a racist fuckwit and despise that part of him.

But nonetheless, if you continue to support him, you accept that having a racist fuckwit in the Oval Office is an acceptable trade-off to have someone who's against abortion, protecting guns, or whatever the case may be as the President of the United States. And no matter what reason you may have, no matter how deeply and passionately you care about those things, having someone who doesn't give the slightest fuck about the civil rights or basic humanity of your fellow Americans and sees them as garbage and so clearly doesn't give the slightest fuck about them should be absolutely, completely 100% non-negotiable.

After all, if it were you, were Trump to be racist and to fundamentally not give the slightest fuck about your humanity and give not even dogwhistles, but flat out megaphones to racists that your race doesn't matter, that your rights don't matter simply based on a color of your skin or your ethnicity/heritage, if you can even slightly begin to conceive of such a thing, people hating you for factors beyond your control decided at the time of conception and wishing you dead simply because of those traits, and the President of the United States of all people giving those people the loudest possible signal that he's on their side and feels that they're right, if you can even slightly begin to conceive of such a thing, even slightly, then you would no doubt hope that no matter what your disagreements with others may be, no matter how much you otherwise don't see eye-to-eye, that people would have your back and not let that type of thing go unchecked. That no matter what your disagreements may otherwise may be, that such a thing is completely 100% unacceptable and as loudly and sharply rebuked as possible, as loudly and forcibly as this dogwhistle to racists letting the President know that he's on their side is, if not moreso.

If you can even slightly begin to conceive that, and would hope and pray to god that people would stick up for you in that type of situation, then whatever your reason for supporting Trump up to this point, I would only hope that you would do likewise for the people affected by decisions like this and let the President know that your support does in fact come with strings attached and is not 100% unconditional: that being basic respect for the humanity of your fellow Americans, no matter their skin color, no matter their ethnicity, no matter their religion, sexual orientation, gender, etc, are human and protected by the rights bestowed to them on the city, state, and federal level and protected by the Constitution of the United States of America and that getting on a megaphone and giving racists the loudest possible message that he does not in fact give the slightest fuck about the Constitution and the rights it gives them as Americans and instead says they, the racists, are the ones that are right and that he's got their backs, not the Constitution's, not rule of law, but the backs of racists and that's what he chooses to prioritize and emphasize.

If you can even slightly begin to imagine what that's like, even slightly, and put yourself into the shoes of those affected by stuff like this, if it were you who had to deal with the President of the United States essentially getting up on stage and saying that "You know what? Racists are right! People's rights don't matter simply because of the color of their skin or where there from and they're rights are completely negotiable! Fuck the Constitution, fuck rule of law and due process, and all of that nonsense! You racists have the right idea! Keep on keeping on!" and how terrifying that is, how completely 100% terrifying that is, and how, no matter what other differences you may have, that people would nonetheless have your back and say that this is absolutely, 100% not in any way alright and must be condemned in the loudest and clearest terms possible, because that's what you would naturally hope people would do for you if it was you on the other end of that, so please, please do the same and make it clear that whatever your reasons for supporting Trump up to this point, that this is a bridge so far and that if he's going to get on a megaphone and tell racists that they have the right idea, that that's just way too far and you cannot, absolutely positively cannot support him if that's the position he's going to take.

After all, that's just an extension of the golden rule in the end, really. One of the most basic and fundamental concepts possible--treat others the way you want to be treated. If you can even slightly imagine that situation, even slightly, and even slightly understand how terrifying that must be and hope that people would do the same for you if was you, then do the same for them, and make it clear that your fellow Americans rights aren't up for debate and that giving racists a thumb's up on a megaphone is just way too much. It's what you'd want if it was you, the way you'd want to be treated, so treat your fellow Americans the same way, and give them the same courtesy and respect. Treat them the way you'd want to treated. The Golden Rule. Please.

Of course, you don't have to do that. Can't make you do anything. You do have freedom of speech and the right to make your own decision. But realize that that's a two-way street and other people have their freedom of speech as well and we're free to use it to criticize and critique your decisions as well. Know that if you choose to do that, to continue backing him even now, deciding that stopping abortion, protecting your guns, etc, are that important to you that you're willing to overlook this no matter how much you personally despise it, that even if it completely eats you up but you're still willing to support him anyway because that stuff is that important to you, that you're complicit.

You don't have to make that decision. You could chose otherwise. But in that case, you're deciding that whatever the case, that those things are worth more than respecting the basic humanity of your fellow Americans and worth the President of the United States giving racists a thumbs-up and you will be loudly and sharply criticized for that as well. As that is your decision, and something you have to completely, 100% own. No one is making you come to that decision. If that's what you decide, it's your's, and your's alone, so own it and accept the fact that despite not having to, despite having alternatives (such as calling for the impeachment of the President and just letting Pence become President, who would still be pro-life, support gun rights and all that anyway), that you nonetheless are willing to throw your support behind that and accept that for whatever reason. If you accept that though, if you accept that despite not in any way being compelled to and make that of your own choice, you must accept that that is your choice and no one else's and that your complicit in empowering that type of racism.

But like I said, you don't have to. Just think of the golden rule. Treat others the way you want to be treated. If you'd want others to have your back, have their's. Otherwise, accept the consequences that if you aren't willing the have the backs of others, that they won't have your's. That's a two-way street, after all, and the corollary for that. If you don't have the backs of others, if you aren't willing to have their backs, you can't then be upset when they refuse to have your's. That makes no sense. So make your choice, but please do your best to consider that from not just your own perspective, but the perspective of those affected by stuff like this, as that's no doubt the courtesy you'd want if it was you would could be affected by something like this, so please, please return the favor, alright?



I know this post was kind of long and meandering, so if anyone actually did take the time to read this, thanks! Like, seriously, thank you! xD Can't make anyone read a post like this, so if you took the time to read it, and think about it and reflect on it, that's definitely awesome and I appreciate it. So well, yeah... Thanks! xD
Just so cowardly to do this at the end of the day, on a Friday night, under the cover of a major hurricane on top of it all. Doesn't even have the guts to do this stuff in the middle of the day, or when there's not a major natural disaster occurring. Deliberately trying to sweep this under the rug and hope it just happens with nobody noticing. Utterly cowardly move, and not one of someone who has any conviction in his actions or the ability to whether even the slightest amount of criticism.

There's just absolutely no defense for this. Anyone who's brave enough, who's noble enough, who's got the guts to serve and is physically capable to should be able to. End of. For someone to love their country their country enough, to be enough of a patriot and brave enough to want to enlist and do what they can, if that's what they want to do, they should have every ability to do so. To deny anyone the ability to make that choice is just reprehensible to me.

Especially since on top of it all, on top of all that, it doesn't even do anything to make our country more safe! There's zero benefit to it! If anything, if anything, it means that because we'll have slightly less armed service members, we'll be slightly less safe! Only slightly, but still! This can only have negative repercussions. There's no benefit to the armed services for denying those who are physically able and willing to serve the ability to do so. If anything, that can only make us less safe, not more so!

There's just no reason for this other than pure, unbridled hate and lack of respect for just not any random Americans, but some of the Americans who love the country the most out of anyone in the entire country: those that love the country so much that they're willing to put their lives on the line in order to protect it and everything it stands for. If (putting the issue of rightness/wrongness of war or any individual military actions aside for the moment as that has no bearing on this decision and the way in which it impacts others and is a discussion for another time perhaps but absolutely, definitively not here and not now) someone loves the country that much, has that much pride, love and respect in it, but you spit on that group of people in particular and instead of saying "God bless you and thank you for your courage," you just spit on their grave and refuse to allow them to so much as make the decision, when there's absolutely nothing to gain by doing so, absolutely nothing. I just... I just can't begin to explain the full depths of what that makes me feel.

Just a thoroughly, completely disgusting decision from a thoroughly disgusting man.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Fuck him.

It's basically about being grossed out or some shit. This literally stops no one from joining, only re-implements don't ask don't tell.
 

Condom

Member
See it as this: At least you won't be sent to another continent to kill poor brown people as a transgender. Because between now and the elections he will probably try and start a war.
 

EYEL1NER

Member
It will probably be a dishonorable discharge.
More than likely not. Even during DADT, most discharges of homosexuals fell between Honorable and OTH. I can't imagine too many were officially classified as honorable (we all know that most of those kicked out for being gay and not receiving an Honorable Discharge more than likely did serve honorably during that time; DADT was such a shitty policy...), but Outserve-SLDN says that most were Honorable and General Under Honorable:
http://www.outserve-sldn.org/page/discharge_upgrades said:
Service members who were discharged under DADT generally received an Honorable or General Under Honorable Conditions discharge based on their service records. However, a service member discharged for a “Homosexual Act” that involved a so-called “aggravating factor” might have been given an Other Than Honorable (OTH) discharge characterization. Most of the factors on the list (such as acts involving minors, prostitutes or coercion) constituted unacceptable behavior and should have resulted in an OTH. But there were two “aggravating factors” that did not inherently constitute misconduct and that should not necessarily have resulted in OTH discharges. These were acts committed openly in public view (e.g., holding hands at a restaurant) and acts committed on base or on post (e.g., a quick hug while being dropped off).

In addition, the Navy and Marine Corps gave those discharged for “marriage” or “attempted marriage” an OTH, while in the Army and the Air Force, members discharged for same conduct received Honorable or General Under Honorable Conditions discharges, based on their service record.

Service members discharged under the pre-DADT policy were very likely to receive discharges that were less than Honorable.
Anything not Honorable can still cause problems, loss of benefits, and in general be a big deal though.



BTW, if anyone happens to be affected by this currently or has someone serving with them or are maybe a supervisor to someone who will be impacted, Outserve-SLDN might be something to take a look at or recommend. I only just recently discovered them but can't believe I had never heard of them. Outserve was I guess an advocacy group founded in 2009 to help LGBT service members. They merged with the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network in 2012, and I actually did know about SLDN. They seem like a good resource for info and assistance though and I haven't turned up anything negative about them in a quick couple searches: http://www.outserve-sldn.org
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
I hope this gets blocked in Congress somehow. Absolutely disgraceful.

Honestly it's such a shite country now, I don't know why anyone would want to "serve" it...

176 posts in ten years.

I will never get over how dedicated some of you are to having no life other than to "troll" on a video game enthusiasts forum.
That means this person isn't a troll, but this is their sincerely held beliefs. o_O
 
Trump and all his supporters can go fuck themselves.
I hear ya brother, but for all the talk of Trump will be impeached/resign (and keep in mind these are many of the same people who said he would "NEVER" make it beyond the primary, let alone election), watch this man baby be re-elected.

Only thing I can say is whoever is successor is, whether it be in 2021, 2025, or whenever, hopefully he/she is one helluva candidate to reverse all of this damage this immature baby is causing, because we sure in the fuck will NEED it.

But yeah, total BS here. Arguments from the right about LBGTQ would be quite hilarious if these douchebags did not have so much damn power in the government.
 

Ekai

Member
I don't understand the supposed logic that's surely being touted as a means of leading to this decision?

It's all lies and bullshit meant to appeal to people who rationalize their support for Republicans economically and evangelicals that want to fuck over minorities
 

Koomaster

Member
What is to stop someone who is trans from joining the military but not saying they are trans till they are already accepted? If they don't kick out active members who are trans, seems you could still join under cover sort of speak.
 

EGM1966

Member
Anything else he snuck in late when Hurricane was taking headlines or just this and the pardon?

As well if this wasn't a heinous enough act he hides it under a hurricane that might well claim lives.
 
Anything else he snuck in late when Hurricane was taking headlines or just this and the pardon?

As well if this wasn't a heinous enough act he hides it under a hurricane that might well claim lives.
Sebastian Gorka resigned last night too, but that was a good thing.
 
So, somebody correct me if I am reading this wrong but before dear leader was around the military was paying for gender reassignment? When I learned about that because I did not even know that was a thing I was like that's great but now Trump is taking that away?
 
Anything else he snuck in late when Hurricane was taking headlines or just this and the pardon?

As well if this wasn't a heinous enough act he hides it under a hurricane that might well claim lives.

It's absolutely appalling, even for Trump.

He's easily the most reprehensible ratfuck on the planet. A disgusting moronic shit-stain whose constant upward failures defy all logic and reason.
 

ngower

Member
Oh good, he freed up some more money for the Secret Service fund he burned through. So much winning, such a great businessman!

What a joke...what the hell does this dude have to do to for the press to stop eagerly anticipating his pivot? What do baseline conservatives need before they realize he's a maniac and start pressuring their representatives to hold Trump accountable?
 

Oriel

Member
Cunt. As too are those LGBT who voted for the orange skidmark despite everything they were told about his homophobia.
 

Eusis

Member
Cunt. As too are those LGBT who voted for the orange skidmark despite everything they were told about his homophobia.
I don't think we actually heard much on homophobia from him, but he did have Mike "zap the gay" Pence as his VP and the party was very hostile to LGBT rights with many specifically attacking bathroom use, so voting to get him in was still actively against their own best interests.
 
So if you are in the army, and you are trans will you get an honorable discharge?

It's going to depend on the CO and the status of the soldier. Chances are most will receive an Honorable or General discharge (believe it or not, only about 10% of soldiers receive anything less, and a vast majority are honorable)

If Mattis forces COs to give discharged trans soldiers a punitive discharge, there will be a shitton of backlash.
 

Locke562

Member
I think the media needs to profile the service members who were kicked out for months. This country needs to put a face on this.
 

Ac30

Member
I think the media needs to profile the service members who were kicked out for months. This country needs to put a face on this.

They should, but Trump does awful shit on a near daily basis and it's impossible to keep track of the consequences of all of it.
 

Ekai

Member
I don't think we actually heard much on homophobia from him, but he did have Mike "zap the gay" Pence as his VP and the party was very hostile to LGBT rights with many specifically attacking bathroom use, so voting to get him in was still actively against their own best interests.

It doesn't matter to some LGB individuals. Especially conservative leaning white cis Gs. They got what they wanted, they don't care about the T.
 
I think the media needs to profile the service members who were kicked out for months. This country needs to put a face on this.

Here's one. Riley Dosh. First openly trans West Point graduate having her career ended just when it should be beginning.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/military...west-point-graduate-looks-work-174252679.html

She did a Reddit AMA in July. Lots of illuminating details there. The AMA is only 62% upvoted. :/

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/6nmzqj/iama_the_first_openly_transgender_graduate_from/
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
Someone, please provide me any fucking excuse that could possibly justify voting Republican that doesn't boil down to "I'm a selfish/stupid/hateful sack of shit"

I can't find any
 
People who believe abortion is murder or something.

I'd argue that still falls under "selfish," since it usually amounts to a bunch of moral posturing about "killing babies" while simultaneously giving no shits about helping women care for their babies after they're born. It's mostly about making yourself feel "morally clean" while disavowing any of the social or economic responsibility that comes with forcing women to have children. It's also fundamentally about punishing women for having sexual autonomy and cornering minority women into generational poverty, so it's also hateful.

I can't think of any other intellectually and ethically honest reasons for voting Republican in the current climate.
 

Ekai

Member

cameron

Member
AP: ACLU sues Trump over transgender military ban
BALTIMORE (AP) — The American Civil Liberties Union has filed a lawsuit challenging President Donald Trump’s ban on transgender individuals joining the military.

The federal lawsuit , Stone v. Trump, was filed in Maryland on Monday by the ACLU of Maryland on behalf of Petty Officer First Class Brock Stone, an 11-year Navy veteran who served in Afghanistan, and several other transgender members of the Navy, Army, Air Force and Marines.

Trump directed the Pentagon on Friday to implement the ban on transgender individuals joining the military, which he first announced in a tweet. He also gave to the Pentagon the authority to decide the future of openly transgender people already serving.

The lawsuit says Trump’s policy violates the equal protection rights of transgender service members who now have “grave reason to fear for their careers.”

The lawsuit questions the premise for the ban cited in the president’s tweets. Trump wrote that he made his decision after consulting with “my Generals and military experts,” saying they “cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.”

But the lawsuit says news reports indicate top “military officials were surprised by Trump’s announcement, and that his actual motivations were purely political, reflecting a desire to accommodate legislators and advisers who bear animus and moral disapproval toward men and women who are transgender, with a goal of gaining votes for a spending bill that included money to build a border wall with Mexico.”
 
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