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[eastmen]

But since they're using similar APUs and since Sony has a less complicated version of the same APU, it will still benefit Sony greatly too

Not really. MS went with cheap ddr 3 ram and a larger die for edram. As the die size decreases with each micron drop they are able to fit more chips on a wafer .


While sony's die will also get smaller their ram GDDR wont go down in price as quickly since its mostly used in video cards and the ps4 itself will be the main driver of cost reduction. Lets also not forget that they are using a cutting edge density.

Sony is most likely going to be stuck with the same amount of gddr chips for the majority of this generation.

 

[JordanN]

Why even release a console that's so weak? I was disappointed with PS4's raw performance estimates when it was revealed, but I warmed up to it. x86 architecture, large memory pool, nice iterative bump, should enable 4-5 year generations to return.

But this kind of performance MS is targeting is a wash. Why even release it? Probably platform and kinect stuff. Not interesting. Especially if we're stuck with this for 7 years....fuck.

Please hurry up graphene transistor researchers. This industry is getting boring.

Yeah, this is the worse part and people need to become of weary of this.

I guess the only saving grace is the RAM but the lack of processing power could really hold back gaming big time. That is, if we don't see a max exodus to PS4.

 

[nib95]

Infinite power of the clouds will save us.

 

[Takuya]

I'd love it if Matt would clarify what's true exactly, the yields or the under clocking.

They both go hand in hand no?

If you can't manage the yields, underclocking is the simplest solution.

 

[Spongebob]

...

Edit that last part out..

 

[madmaxx350]

I'm surprised they'd be having heating issues with that huge box. Wasn't the TDP suppose to be fairly manageable for that APU? Why would heating issues be happening at that level of TDP?

 

[jayu26]

They've always been generally good at short life cycles for individual consoles.

Boom.gif

 

[tfur]

No problem. Cloud cooling.

Can't wait to see how many times the cloud is referenced next week.

 

[mr_nothin]

I'm surprised they'd be having heating issues with that huge box. Wasn't the TDP suppose to be fairly manageable for that APU? Why would heating issues be happening at that level of TDP?

And the PSU isnt even inside the thing! They have a power brick...

 

[SRTtoZ]

That's what I'm wondering as well.

If you read through his post history you can see he is some sort of insider. Which kind I do not know.

He has also stated that MS is behind production on a lot of things including games, so take that as you will.

 

[Proelite]

I'm surprised they'd be having heating issues with that huge box. Wasn't the TDP suppose to be fairly manageable for that APU? Why would heating issues be happening at that level of TDP?

It's possible to have yield / heat issues with a smart phone. :shrug

 

[i-Lo]

Aegeis save us.

 

[IHaveCandy]

If MS never publishes flop stats, will we ever know later?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Damn, this is crazy if true....

Maybe next time Microsoft should build a game console first, instead of just tacking one on.

 

[SRTtoZ]

I think Matt is my favorite gaf insider. I LOVE YOU MATT.

Lol @ the edit. I was about to call you Roy Hibbert. DAMMIT!

 

[ironcreed]

I'm surprised they'd be having heating issues with that huge box. Wasn't the TDP suppose to be fairly manageable for that APU? Why would heating issues be happening at that level of TDP?

You would think that they would have learned a thing or two from the RRoD fiasco. Oh my.

 

[ElectricKaibutsu]

Nope, 3rd party ports being superior on the PS4 mean all sites will be using it as the system for their playthroughs of games. Shortly after launch word will get to casual gamers that the superior versions are on PS4 after the hardcore purchase them and tell their friends.

Erm, then why did the PS3 sell so well? As long as the X1 gets the games people will buy systems.

 

[artist]

If MS never publishes flop stats, will we ever know later?

You dont need a flop count from MS if we can get the rest of the stuff they need to talk about with devs.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They had 8 years.

 

[vpance]

This is good news. The bigger the difference in power between PS4 and Xbone the more likely it'll be that PS4 remains the lead platform. Xbone, welcome your down ports.

 

[guek]

could someone clarify how underclocking the gpu would improve sram yields?

 

[StevieP]

You would think that they would have learned a thing or two from the RRoD fiasco. Oh my.

This would mean they've learned something certainly

 

[Bad_Boy]

Yeah, this is true.

 

[hackdog]

Man, this year is like a soap opera waiting for the XBO and PS4.

As a side note how good is Cerny looking right now with his GDDR5 call.

 

[madmaxx350]

It's possible to have yield / heat issues with a smart phone. :shrug

that's a fair statement. I assume MS started late? It'd be crazy if they have to delay and miss the holiday.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Erm, then why did the PS3 sell so well? As long as the X1 gets the games people will buy systems.

PS3 sold well because of its great exclusive lineup. MS murdered Sony when it came to multiplatorm games because they functioned a bit better in most cases. Imagine if Sony could secure the exclusive demographic and the multiplatform demo?

 

[opticalmace]

could someone clarify how underclocking the gpu would improve sram yields?

edit: sorry misread your post. I'll leave this here anyway.
edit2: I think the GPU clocking thing is independent of the esram issues.

I assume that would mean you could accept parts with lower performance thresholds. i.e. instead of binning ones that were underperforming, you could use a whole bunch of them in systems.

 

[FuturusX]

I love that...

 

[prwxv3]

Was this the info that Jonathan Blow was implying when he was giving shit to MS over the cloud computing claims.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Since I'm in the OP, I might as well say that I completely stand by what I said and feel the person that informed me of this is as reliable as it possibly gets on the Xbox One. I feel a source doesn't get more accurate than this.

If it turns out wrong, feel free to perma ban me. Although, if I'm wrong, which I really, really doubt, I throw myself on the mercy of the court.

Who am I kidding? Gaf? Mercy? Still, I take full responsibility for what I said, and I absolutely stand by it.

 

[Beerman462]

Erm, then why did the PS3 sell so well? As long as the X1 gets the games people will buy systems.

Blu-Ray

 

[jayu26]

They had 8 years.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

There's no way devs are going to build games targeted specifically at Xbox One's specs. Especially with the beneficial architecture of the PS4. It'll just be a reverse of this gen for multiplats for the most part.

Don't see why it would be otherwise.

Too early to say on both really. I'm just going with the worst case scenario because that seems to be the safe bet.

 

[teh_pwn]

PS3 sold well because of its great exclusive lineup. MS murdered Sony when it came to multiplatorm games because they functioned a bit better in most cases. Imagine if Sony could secure the exclusive demographic and the multiplatform demo?

Microsoft also had a really good first 2 years with 360. Very organized, lots of exclusive titles. Both due to management and ease of development. Something changed around 2008.

 

[nib95]

Man, this year is like a soap opera waiting for the XBO and PS4.

As a side note how good is Cerny looking right now with his GDDR5 call.

To be fair, it was not a difficult call. GDDR5 is defacto video ram for GPU's these days after all. Microsoft just needed that early large ram amount for the OS's, and only DDR3 could provide it, which meant Esram needed inevitably. Basically, Microsoft's focus on software and non gaming features sort of hampered them big on the gaming side of the equation.

 

[prwxv3]

PS3 sold well because of its great exclusive lineup. MS murdered Sony when it came to multiplatorm games because they functioned a bit better in most cases. Imagine if Sony could secure the exclusive demographic and the multiplatform demo?

Xbox sells mostly on multiplatform games. Playstation does too but not nearly as much as xbox.

 

[chubigans]

No problem. Cloud cooling.

I laughed too much at that.

 

[Holly Caust]

lol

 

[mr_nothin]

Matt said this earlier:

Without the ESRAM, the system basically would not work. It wasn't put in there to help make up for the DDR3, it was put in there to make the choice of DDR3 workable in the first place.

If that's true then would that have any bearing on the clockspeed/timings of the DDR3?..... Since it's not there to lend a helping hand, it's there to actually make it work in the 1st place.

 

[guek]

edit: sorry misread your post. I'll leave this here anyway.

I assume that would mean you could accept parts with lower performance thresholds. i.e. instead of binning ones that were underperforming, you could use a whole bunch of them in systems.

So even if it's an sram issue, some yields may have sram that passes inspection but not the gpu and thus increasing yields of the gpu would ultimately allow for more units in total to pass inspection?

Sorry, I don't know jack about production lines

 

[madmaxx350]

Since I'm in the OP, I might as well say that I completely stand by what I said and feel the person that informed me of this is as reliable as it possibly gets on the Xbox One. I feel a source doesn't get more accurate than this.

If it turns out wrong, feel free to perma ban me. Although, if I'm wrong, which I really, really doubt, I throw myself on the mercy of the court.

Who am I kidding? Gaf? Mercy? Still, I take full responsibility for what I said, and I absolutely stand by it.

Well hopefully they fix those yields issues regarding ESRAM. I mean I still can't believe they can afford to miss this holiday, especially with Sony being so aggressive .

 

[StevieP]

Since I'm in the OP, I might as well say that I completely stand by what I said and feel the person that informed me of this is as reliable as it possibly gets on the Xbox One. I feel a source doesn't get more accurate than this.

If it turns out wrong, feel free to perma ban me. Although, if I'm wrong, which I really, really doubt, I throw myself on the mercy of the court.

Who am I kidding? Gaf? Mercy? Still, I take full responsibility for what I said, and I absolutely stand by it.

Matt is certainly an insider, but it's always possible his information is not current. It is also possible, however, that your source's info is not current either but without knowing who that is its not clear what's up. The esram thing is certainly true and not a new thing.

To make matters worse, Matt was intentionally unclear as to what he was referring to beig correct.

 

[Felix Lighter]

People wringing their hands about Sony "losing" next gen because MS moneyhats or whatever should relax. PS4 should be in a much better starting position than the PS3 was last generation and the PS3 was successful enough to justify an excellent library. "Winning" and "losing" doesn't mean shit if no one is dominating PS1/PS2 style, especially since both manufacturers chose similar architecture.

 

[Beerman462]

Too early to say on both really. I'm just going with the worst case scenario because that seems to be the safe bet.

Developers want to show their game in the best light. That means showing a PC version or PS4 version first.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Microsoft also had a really good first 2 years with 360. Very organized, lots of exclusive titles. Both due to management and ease of development. Something changed around 2008.

Yea im guessing because Sony started to ramp up finally after the disastrous start and the exclusives started rolling in. MS was doing very well until Kinect came out and then they seemed to lose focus a bit.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

Infinite power of the clouds will save us.

Looks like a storm's comin'.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Well hopefully they fix those yields issues regarding ESRAM. I mean I still can't believe they can afford to miss this holiday, especially with Sony being so aggressive .

It would be quite the role reversal. Would be remembered in gaming history for a long time, but I doubt it'll happen. Interesting nonetheless.

 

[opticalmace]

So even if it's an sram issue, some yields may have sram that passes inspection but not the gpu and thus increasing yields of the gpu would ultimately allow for more units in total to pass inspection?

Sorry, I don't know jack about production lines

I thought the gpu downclocking/esram issues were separate points. That was how I read the OP, I dunno.

 

[Radical_Ed]

I guess this is good news for the PS360U. Oh, Iwata, you old tricky bastard, this was your secret weapon to get the third parties on! Now we UNDERSTAND.

 

[CLEEK]

No problem. Cloud cooling.

You mean, water cooling.

Just think of the performance they'd get when the console heats up!

More heat = more evaporation = more clouds = more power = more heat...

PS4 wouldn't stand a chance.