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[WhiskeyDiver]

Wearing the costume is fine. Trying to match the ethnicity of the character will only garner backlash against said person and fuck up their career.

For fuck sakes....try to up that common sense IQ.

 

[strange headache]

This is ridiculous!

Painting your skin black does not automatically imply racism. It's a logical fallacy because there are many other reasons why you would want to paint your skin, such as in this particular case. Twitch had absolutely no reason to ban that person because taken in context it was quite obviously not a racist act and neither was it even intended as such. Furthermore blackface only applies in the context of american culture and history, you cannot simply expect people from a different cultural background to share the same sensitivities.

Painting your skin in order to cosplay as a video game character is not racist. As such it does not cause harm and should be considered part of your freedom of expression. Sure, there are always those who willfully seek to be offended by this. But doing so is only possible by insinuating an intention that's simply not there. If you're offended by this it's your own fault because you rely on a false premise that does not reflect the motivation of the cosplayer by deliberately changing the context of that picture.

Here's the definition of blackface:

: dark makeup worn (as by a performer in a minstrel show) in a caricature of the appearance of a black person

The cosplayer in question did neither intend to caricature, ridicule or demean black people. As such, even the definition of blackface does not apply in this case. An general ban on skin-paint would fail to take into account the context, message, meaning and intention behind that specific form of expression. As such, an outright ban under the false pretext of blackface constitutes an unlawful and overbearing incision into our freedom of expression of which cosplay is a part of.

 

[Tesseract]

negative history is like reverse racism

 

[Fahdis]

Then you'll get perma-banned like me if you do that, even though you're correct.

Fuck that site then. Let's make Gaf better. This place isn't a dipshit mindhive SJW fest anymore.

 

[Liftplus]

Soon we'll see a story: "suspect has fallen on ground and got his face dirty, he's now suspected of being racist".

 

[jonnyp]

How about, it's perfectly find to cosplay black characters but just leave your goddamn skin color alone. Just like it's perfectly acceptable for black people to cosplay asian anime characters.

Anyone can dress up as anyone, just don't be so culturally insensitive that you change your skin color.

No, how about you stop with this crazy ideology instead? What is culturally insensitive if someone wants to look like a certain fictional character or person they like? Absolutely nothing. How is it racist or insensitive to celebrate a black person or character?

Context and intent matters - not the make-up in itself.

I remember that white kid in college who was attacked by a black students for having the audacity to have dreads. This whole "black face" and "cultural appropriation" thing is so ridiculous I don't even have words.

 

[ethomaz]

Wearing the costume is fine. Trying to match the ethnicity of the character will only garner backlash against said person and fuck up their career.

For fuck sakes....try to up that common sense IQ.

Common sense says you can paint your skin with any color to characterize the character you are trying to imitate... to be fair it is even recommended to do that in favor of accuracy of the art you are doing.

But hay racism create some weird senses and people believes it is what is correct due more weird reasons lol

 

[Noboru Wataya]

What happens if someone has that skin disease where their black skin slowly changes to light skin/white looking skin, and they want to darken their skin like a normal black person.

Is that blackface?

Black people cant be racist! Even the white ones.

 

[Kdad]

Hey that reminds me of this dutch tradition.

You can take my Zwarte Piet away when Santa stops enslaving little people and dressing them up as children.

 

[Kdad]

Let me understand...

If anyone cosplay's as the HULK and uses green body colour...they are racist?
Cause that is what you are saying here...you can't cosplay as a fictional character and include their fictional skin colour when doing so.

 

[Neofire]

Let me understand...

If anyone cosplay's as the HULK and uses green body colour...they are racist?
Cause that is what you are saying here...you can't cosplay as a fictional character and include their fictional skin colour when doing so.

You must be joking right?

Let me get this straight, your comparing a green pigmentation(that literally no human on this planet has) to brown skin(a skin pigment that more then half the world has) okay. That has a bad perception/connotation to people of African slavery decent and you so no problem with it?

If I'm correct Twitch didn't ban the woman for being racist they banned her basically putting on black face. I'm sure they would do it a light skin black person if they put makeup on to darken themselves, as an outfit. Granted not many are stupid enough to do such a thing.

 

[Outrunner]

You must be joking right?

Let me get this straight, your comparing a green pigmentation(that literally no human on this planet has) to brown skin(a skin pigment that more then half the world has) okay. That has a bad perception/connotation to people of African slavery decent and you so no problem with it?

If I'm correct Twitch didn't ban the woman for being racist they banned her basically putting on black face. I'm sure they would do it a light skin black person if they put makeup on to darken themselves, as an outfit. Granted not many are stupid enough to do such a thing.

I'm transracial and I have green skin.

 

[Neofire]

I'm transracial and I have green skin.

Everything is a joke these days it seems.

 

[TimFL]

The other board went on a ban spree, banning anyone who tried to suggest that the term blackface was not common knowledge outside of the US.
I can see why it's considered offensive, but I also had to educate myself about the term per se. There are quite a few people doing stuff like that here during halloween or carnival, so the article itself seemed strange to me at first.

 

[Neofire]

The other board went on a ban spree, banning anyone who tried to suggest that the term blackface was not common knowledge outside of the US.
I can see why it's considered offensive, but I also had to educate myself about the term per se. There are quite a few people doing stuff like that here during halloween or carnival, so the article itself seemed strange to me at first.

I understand what your saying but alot of people are forgetting the consequence aspect of doing it. The people dressing up at Halloween are I'm sure doing it in a controlled environment and not posting it on social media all the time. You have a few dummies that have and they have suffered the consequences.

You can't "what if" every situation that puts into your mind about this subject because it seems like your looking an excuse for it to be normal and it isn't.

 

[mckmas8808]

You must be joking right?

Let me get this straight, your comparing a green pigmentation(that literally no human on this planet has) to brown skin(a skin pigment that more then half the world has) okay. That has a bad perception/connotation to people of African slavery decent and you so no problem with it?

If I'm correct Twitch didn't ban the woman for being racist they banned her basically putting on black face. I'm sure they would do it a light skin black person if they put makeup on to darken themselves, as an outfit. Granted not many are stupid enough to do such a thing.

You're finding the people that don't take blackface seriously, that's why they're joking about it. Some of these people in this thread want it to be normal. It's clear as day. Thankfully it will never be received as normal.

 

[TimFL]

I understand what your saying but alot of people are forgetting the consequence aspect of doing it. The people dressing up at Halloween are I'm sure doing it in a controlled environment and not posting it on social media all the time. You have a few dummies that have and they have suffered the consequences.

You can't "what if" every situation that puts into your mind about this subject because it seems like your looking an excuse for it to be normal and it isn't.

I'm not looking into an excuse to defend it or make it normal, you understand me wrong. What I was saying is, history is so incredibly rich (and horrible ontop of that) that not everyone in the world knows about every horrible thing. My country is dead set on beating the WW2 horse, I barely remember anything else from my 13 years of school education. It was always the nazis, we probably went over the racist times in the US in a few days or weeks.
TLDR: Not everyone knows or understands the term due to lack of education in that aspect. I think the cosplayer was from an easter european country, so not surprised she doesn't know or get the term at all.

 

[WhiskeyDiver]

Common sense says you can paint your skin with any color to characterize the character you are trying to imitate... to be fair it is even recommended to do that in favor of accuracy of the art you are doing.

But hay racism create some weird senses and people believes it is what is correct due more weird reasons lol

Yeah I never really had a problem with someone putting on make-up to try and match the ethnicity of a character if they're trying to go for as close to accurate as possible. Some people idolize this characters and in part wish they could be said character, so they try to incorporate every aspect of that character's appearance into said costume/look. I'm not going to go all ham and get angry just because a person wishes to honor the character they love so much as long as it's done tastefully. Then again there is that fine line...

I'm obviously not cool with people going out of their way to wear make up to change their skin color in order to be obviously racist dickbags. Obviously people who do this will say "aww no man I was not trying to be racist in any way, shape or form. This is total bullshit bro." Right. Yeah. OK BRO.

Oh just to further clarify, mostly for myself by the whole common sense part of my post was regarding the social media climate when doing something like painting one's skin color to match of a fictional character. Do it, and a person gets their life chucked into a fucking wood chipper and then set on fire, because of dat massive overreaction. Sorry I left my comment incomplete.

 

[DonF]

Lithuania culture doesn’t matter

Which culture does matter then? Do you even dare to say "minority culture doesn't matter"?

 

[BacklashWave534]

If her cosplay pained you, you need to seek professional help.

Couldn't have said it better. It has to be insulting to the black community that these far left cultists view them as weak and come to their aid even when they don't ask for it. If you look at both context and intent she did absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[mneuro]

There is a difference between blackface that is intentionally offensive, and someone using makeup in a respectful way to celebrate their love of a character. This is nonsense.

 

[BlackOlivesMatter]

I picked a bad week to start doing Al Jolsen cosplay...

 

[mckmas8808]

Oh just to further clarify, mostly for myself by the whole common sense part of my post was regarding the social media climate when doing something like painting one's skin color to match of a fictional character. Do it, and a person gets their life chucked into a fucking wood chipper and then set on fire, because of dat massive overreaction. Sorry I left my comment incomplete.

To be fair, in this instance it's just a one month ban on Twitch. Luckily for her, her life wasn't set on fire.

 

[Baron Samedi]

Sqorin Hammerfarf got banned, and GAF is now a better place.

 

[LucidFeuer]

race means shit. and i am half black wear what you want, as long as you aren't trying to disparage other people its not racist.

no they say kill all white people and like i said get hired by the new york times.

You're aren't half anything, it's funny how everybody pretends to be a quarter or half something on the internet...

 

[LucidFeuer]

I'd say Asian and American blacks take the cake

How terrible was the American black slave trade, the colonisation of continents, the holocausts, the imperialist war on racists grounds...nope still a white people exclusivity.

But it's so funny seing people say about people who were rape that they're essentially the rapist themselves...it's exactly the argument of racist defenders today: if you argue against racism instead of denying it's existence, then you're racist...right and the White Roses were antisemitic because they were fighting against nazis...the twisted degeneracy people go to defend racism.

 

[LucidFeuer]

No one here is defending racism.
Drop the lies.

I'm not lying. Every goddamn racist today starts with denying the existence, definition or character of racism before being racist.
It's a crucial ingredient of today's racism: if I say something racist, antisemitic or bigoted, or if defend something that is, I just have to deny that it is or that it even exists.

Except you don't get to say what is blackface and what is not, you don't get to say what is racist or antisemitic and what is not, the same way you don't get to say to a rape victim that it wasn't rape or that there's no such thing, which you are doing with the case at hand: YES, this is a blackface, period.

And this is what I call racism defending: most racist people today don't go out spurting the easy traditional redneck racist crap...we've understood for years that instead, they simply deny the existence of racism or it's character in a matter in order to defend racism.

That's exactly what you are doing: you are defending racism, precisely a blackface, by denying this is a blackface. You are essentially saying something incredibly twisted and racists to the 99% of persons who are the targets, victims or have the culture/experience of racism, that YOU know better and all it implies...this is incredibly violent...so yeah you failed at racist hypocrisy.

 

[Cosmogony]

I'm not lying.

Your accusations against me were lies.
Every single one of them.

You either provide evidence for your accusations or you take them back, one by one. Which is going to be?

Because if you don't present evidence to back your accusations and you don't take them back either, I am calling you a vulgar liar.

 

[GreenAlien]

...

Context and Intent matter for racism, as much as they matter for everything else. If the context isn't racist and the intent behind it isn't racist, it's not racist.
This is not subjective.

Cosplay without ill intent isn't racist.
Painting your face isn't racist.
The color black isn't racist.
How do you logically arrive at "this is racism"?


Now, you can personally be offended by whatever you want. But it's just your subjective opinion. And since it is subjective and based on feelings instead of facts and logic, it doesn't need to matter to anyone else.

However, that doesn't mean I think it's fine to do this in the US. I see this like the nazi symbolism in germany. It's alright for a nation to ostracize/outlaw certain practices/conduct based on their historical significance or "the will of the people".(Edit: Maybe a better example is age of consent. In Austria it's 16(14). Just because it was randomly decided to be 21 in the US, doesn't mean a 60 year old marrying a 16 year old in Austria is doing anything wrong)
If the US, as a society, decide this shouldn't be done out of respect for their fellow citizens or whatever, that's fine. It slightly changes the context.


But you shouldn't force that stuff on the rest of world. We had star singers in my country for quite some time and I don't see at all how that could possibly be called racism. It's just that we did not have enough black children to fill that role, since the refugee crisis it's more often filled by black children.

It's fine for Twitch to ban her, it's US based.. but objectively, she didn't do anything racist.


What's next? Male cosplayer dresses up as female character, LGBT+ and feminists call for his head because a male dressing like a female, that's totally sexism, right?

 

[Moneal]

You're aren't half anything, it's funny how everybody pretends to be a quarter or half something on the internet...

so you are telling me my dad isn't black? fuck off asshole

 

[Cosmogony]

You're finding the people that don't take blackface seriously, that's why they're joking about it. Some of these people in this thread want it to be normal. It's clear as day. Thankfully it will never be received as normal.

Systematically misrepresenting your opponents has been your bread and butter. So now, even though pretty much everyone agrees the cosplayer, who is not American, likely meant no offence, even though everyone seems to agree on that and their comments are thus predicated on that basic assumption, even though all that, you are now pretending there's genuine racism at play here and even suggesting some here are trying to normalize Blackface as a racist meme?

What a shameful conduct.

 

[Kenpachii]

Context and Intent matter for racism, as much as they matter for everything else. If the context isn't racist and the intent behind it isn't racist, it's not racist.
This is not subjective.

Cosplay without ill intent isn't racist.
Painting your face isn't racist.
The color black isn't racist.
How do you logically arrive at "this is racism"?


Now, you can personally be offended by whatever you want. But it's just your subjective opinion. And since it is subjective and based on feelings instead of facts and logic, it doesn't need to matter to anyone else.

However, that doesn't mean I think it's fine to do this in the US. I see this like the nazi symbolism in germany. It's alright for a nation to ostracize/outlaw certain practices/conduct based on their historical significance. If the US, as a society, decide this shouldn't be done out of respect for their fellow citizens or whatever, that's fine. It slightly changes the context.

But you shouldn't force that stuff on the rest of world. We had star singers in my country for quite some time and I don't see at all how that could possibly be called racism. It's just that we did not have enough black children to fill that role, since the refugee crisis it's more often filled by black children.

It's fine for Twitch to ban her, it's US based.. but objectively, she didn't do anything racist.


What's next? Male cosplayer dresses up as female character, LGBT+ and feminists call for his head because a male dressing like a female, that's totally sexism, right?

Zero critical thinking going on with these people.

 

[daveonezero]

Except you don't get to say what is blackface and what is not, you don't get to say what is racist or antisemitic and what is not, the same way you don't get to say to a rape victim that it wasn't rape or that there's no such thing, which you are doing with the case at hand: YES, this is a blackface, period.

This is the true objective of yelling discrimination. Making topics off limits for discussion.

 

[jonnyp]

You must be joking right?

Let me get this straight, your comparing a green pigmentation(that literally no human on this planet has) to brown skin(a skin pigment that more then half the world has) okay. That has a bad perception/connotation to people of African slavery decent and you so no problem with it?

If I'm correct Twitch didn't ban the woman for being racist they banned her basically putting on black face. I'm sure they would do it a light skin black person if they put makeup on to darken themselves, as an outfit. Granted not many are stupid enough to do such a thing.

But is it ok if a white person takes melanin injections and/or goes to tanning salon every day and then cosplays as a black or brown character? It's not makeup, it's their own skin and pigmentation then.

 

[LegendOfKage]

You're finding the people that don't take blackface seriously, that's why they're joking about it. Some of these people in this thread want it to be normal. It's clear as day. Thankfully it will never be received as normal.

I already argued earlier in the thread that I think what she did was a bad idea, and I don't blame Twitch for not allowing that sort of thing on their platform. With that said, I think you're misrepresenting the other side of the argument. People aren't arguing that blackface is okay, and should be normalized. They're arguing that blackface requires at least some level of ridicule or mockery, and what she did doesn't qualify. They're also arguing that intent matters.

And while I agree that Twitch should have taken action to remove this from their platform (they are a company, and they don't need the bad PR), I also think a month long ban seems pretty extreme for something that liking wasn't even in their TOS, and is still very subjective.

 

[mckmas8808]

I already argued earlier in the thread that I think what she did was a bad idea, and I don't blame Twitch for not allowing that sort of thing on their platform. With that said, I think you're misrepresenting the other side of the argument. People aren't arguing that blackface is okay, and should be normalized. They're arguing that blackface requires at least some level of ridicule or mockery, and what she did doesn't qualify. They're also arguing that intent matters.

And while I agree that Twitch should have taken action to remove this from their platform (they are a company, and they don't need the bad PR), I also think a month long ban seems pretty extreme for something that liking wasn't even in their TOS, and is still very subjective.

I also said earlier in the thread that if I was running Twitch I would have gave her a warning and pulled the video down. I wouldn't have banned her the first time. Now of course if she had done it again, then a month ban would have been issued. At what point should a person educate themselves and understand if something is offensive, then they just shouldn't do it? Or at least understand that if they do it, there are consequences to those actions. Give a warning on the first go around, and a one month ban the next time.

It's not enough to continue saying, "I didn't mean it in a racist way" yet continue to do the thing that's racist. Sometimes impact means more than intent. But again, I'll always give someone a free pass if they didn't know. You gotta educate the person first.

And also, there are some people in this thread that aren't trying to talk about this issue respectfully. Just making jokes like "so now white people getting tans are racists!1!!11". Like come on guys grow up.

 

[PhilipDoesMatter]

Is Lifeline a black colored skin character? If so, what's the godamn problem in immitating the skin color?

 

[ph33rknot]

How terrible was the American black slave trade, the colonisation of continents, the holocausts, the imperialist war on racists grounds...nope still a white people exclusivity.

But it's so funny seing people say about people who were rape that they're essentially the rapist themselves...it's exactly the argument of racist defenders today: if you argue against racism instead of denying it's existence, then you're racist...right and the White Roses were antisemitic because they were fighting against nazis...the twisted degeneracy people go to defend racism.

what?

 

[Cosmogony]

I also said earlier in the thread that if I was running Twitch I would have gave her a warning and pulled the video down.

This after you've acknowledged she's not American and admitted she likely meant no offence, All the PR talk about context and intent mattering out the window in one swift blow. So you'd be willing to penalize her even though you've admitted to her innocence?

You're a beacon of justice.

I wouldn't have banned her the first time. Now of course if she had done it again, then a month ban would have been issued. At what point should a person educate themselves and understand if something is offensive,

Your definition of offensive is as wide as the world. If it offends someone, somewhere, anywhere, anyone, then it's offensive. If it's offensive, it merits a ban.

So, again, I find your posts offensive.
Should mods ban you?
It's a Yes or No question.

then they just shouldn't do it? Or at least understand that if they do it, there are consequences to those actions. Give a warning on the first go around, and a one month ban the next time.

One can only appreciate the fact you're not out there managing Twitch.

It's not enough to continue saying, "I didn't mean it in a racist way" yet continue to do the thing that's racist.

Painting one's face in an innocuous cosplay is not racist.
Your ideology must be defeated.

Sometimes impact means more than intent.

If only you could estanlish impact objectively, right?
I know, the world should take your word for it.
No, sorry. No can do.

But again, I'll always give someone a free pass if they didn't know. You gotta educate the person first.

Oh, the benevolent dictator.
Thanks, oh dear Great Leader.

And also, there are some people in this thread that aren't trying to talk about this issue respectfully.

Thank goodness the terms of the debate have not been set by you.

Just making jokes like "so now white people getting tans are racists!1!!11". Like come on guys grow up.

Follow your own advice.

 

[molasar]

Did not expect such a long drama over this. Double edge sword here. It always causes that the most mature people limit their interaction with sensitive ones to the minimum necessary.

 

[bilderberg]

The girl is obviously not racist, but hey, fuck context.

 

[Outrunner]

I'm not lying. Every goddamn racist today starts with denying the existence, definition or character of racism before being racist.
It's a crucial ingredient of today's racism: if I say something racist, antisemitic or bigoted, or if defend something that is, I just have to deny that it is or that it even exists.

Except you don't get to say what is blackface and what is not, you don't get to say what is racist or antisemitic and what is not, the same way you don't get to say to a rape victim that it wasn't rape or that there's no such thing, which you are doing with the case at hand: YES, this is a blackface, period.

And this is what I call racism defending: most racist people today don't go out spurting the easy traditional redneck racist crap...we've understood for years that instead, they simply deny the existence of racism or it's character in a matter in order to defend racism.

That's exactly what you are doing: you are defending racism, precisely a blackface, by denying this is a blackface. You are essentially saying something incredibly twisted and racists to the 99% of persons who are the targets, victims or have the culture/experience of racism, that YOU know better and all it implies...this is incredibly violent...so yeah you failed at racist hypocrisy.

But somehow you do? Oh, boy.

What you are doing is trying to just shut down debate by trying to shout louder than others and by calling those who don't agree with you racists so their opinion on the matter loses all credibility.

 

[Kdad]

It is a cosplay of a fictional character. Step back and ponder.

 

[kraspkibble]

if you're white and want to cosplay a character that is not white it's considered racist if you make your cosplay accurate by making yourself not white?

ok then.

i guarantee you if she never changed the colour of her skin she's still be called a racist. you can't win with these idiots.

 

[McCheese]

My two cents.

As a platform Twitch has to both protect the rights and freedoms of content creators, whilst moderating content that some of their consumers may find upsetting or offensive. It's a balancing act, and for a site such as Twitch which has viewers and casters from various countries, cultures and ethnic backgrounds, there isn't always a correct one-size-fits-all rule that can be applied to cases like this.

It seems clear the caster didn't intend to be offensive, and so banning them (albeit temporarily) was the wrong decision. But at the same time, you cannot ignore that blackface is offensive to a wide audience, and so they should have removed the content and issued them with a warning. If they protested or re-uploaded the content, then a ban would have been justified.

 

[Silent Duck]

You're going full retard, america.

How dare you!
America is not “going full retard”....
...we achieved that a while ago.

 

[GC_DALBEN]

Who's the idiot who takes offense at this? It's just a girl doing a cosplay, I feel sorry for what's happening in some countries.

Sorry about my english, still learning.

 

[acm2000]

This thread sure went places....

Here in the UK I have helped my white male friend cosplay fancy dress twice for parties, as Mr t and Samuel l Jackson, and guess what? everyone loved it no matter their skin colour.

And you know what we won first prizes too (I used too much skin glue on the mr t Mohawk so removing that after was.... Not fun for him lol)

 

[lucius]

Yeah I still don't buy she didn't think some people might take offense at coloring her skin black like that, more likely she didn't care which is fine.

 

[lukilladog]

Whole thing is ridiculous, she wasn´t sending any message or implication that black people is inferior in any way or form so there is no act of racism here, move along.

And this thing of some people claiming offense because of supposed memories or "connotations" of theatrical blackface, is just guilt by association at best, which is logically fallacious and is the basis of racism itself. For example, somebody may claim stress because a black student is wearing gold rings and that remembers him or has gangster "connotations"... see?. You are better than that, please.