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[netBuff]

Not at all, especially since anything Nintendo-related also receives the same treatment from this group.

I understand what is and isn't expected at the launch for PS4, but there have been irrational conclusions formed out of less for the other systems is my point.

You were complaining about there not being enough drama about things that were pretty clearly presented as "not ready for launch". Company loyalists always form irrational conclusions, like claiming there wasn't enough outrage about a competitor's non-news.

I'm more making the point that you can't expect services like what Jack is describing, without having the revenue to build it. Do you realistically think that you'll be able to play cloud games on Sony's platform for free? Not a chance. That being said, is it realistic that MS may include cloud gaming with an XBL subscription? Possibly.

Oh - and MS does possess the technology and knowhow to create cloud services(even if it wasn't built with XBL fees)...
http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/products/other/Pages/cloud_services.aspx#fbid=n_HPMbNCLcd
http://www.windowsazure.com/en-us/

Azure isn't a game-streaming service, it's not comparable. Azure also suffered a few significant outages due to amateurish programming errors in the past year.

And paying for online multiplayer all those years just so Microsoft can supposedly build a game streaming service I have no interest in doesn't make me feel better about spending all that money for almost nothing. Gaikai was able to build a competitive infrastructure on venture capital and Sony was able to buy them lacking the funds provided by mandatory multiplayer fees.

And: I'm okay with streaming services being behind a paywall.

 

[EvB]

Jack Tretton might have your back.




I kid, but I am surprised this didn't get more drama.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2013/02/21/sony-playstation-4-jack-tretton/

Why would it. Sony are the saviours of gaming and Microsoft are the black liquid vomiting evil demons of doom!

 

[Tripp Daily]

sure both want to invade my living room with services and such

but at the end of the say i and a lot of gamers will ask this question to both of them : what are you trying to sell me?

A media center that can play games .

or

A game system that has additional services.

IMO i prefer the latter.

1 + 2 = 3, but 2 + 1 =/= 3?

 

[The Omega Man]

1 + 2 = 3, but 2 + 1 =/= 3?

Is the number 1 the media centre or the games?
same question goes for number 2

 

[Freki]

1 + 2 = 3, but 2 + 1 =/= 3?

1x + 2y != 2x + 1y (for x != y)

 

[RetroStu]

So nothing that actually matters.

lol i agree fully but unfortunately we seem to be a dying breed, it seems the days of sitting back on the sofa and putting your feet up to play a few hours of a videogame are long gone.

 

[statham]

720+360=1080

 

[Tripp Daily]

720+360=1080

= Mind Blown

1x + 2y != 2x + 1y (for x != y)

100% Baseless Speculation, if you are relating that to MS and Sony.

 

[Bgamer90]

A "media focus" for a gaming console seems a very dangerous proposition to me in today's world of declining importance of cable (especially outside the US) and modern TVs that have all the important services built-in as well as plenty of cheap boxes being available that combine media functionality.

But the PS4 is going to have a lot of the same functionality. Something that's just a "game console" and nothing more just doesn't work in today's market in terms of having that console last more than 2 years. People want $300+ tech devices to have things similar to their other $300+ tech devices.

On top of that, Xbox (and seemingly PS) are getting deals with companies/channels that aren't on TVs or Roku boxes. For example, the Xbox being an easy way to watch ESPN content on TV is huge for many cord cutters.

If anything, the reason why cable is declining in importance is because of these streaming media tech devices.

 

[Rebel Leader]

If they are similar in features then Sony revealing first will be a huge plus.

We'll see about that

 

[DesertFox]

Azure isn't a game-streaming service, it's not comparable.

Now you're claiming to know what it takes to build a gaming cloud vs a software/os cloud? Who's claiming to be an insider now?

Clearly there's no arguing with you. Enjoy E3 through those rose-tinted glasses...

 

[Opiate]

Not at all surprised.

Sony and MS are competitors, certainly, but they also need each other. Neither of them want to be the odd man out with a weird structure that can't easily be ported to.

If you think Nintendo's situation is bad, imagine what Microsoft would need to deal with given their first party offerings if they created a platform that third parties ignored.

 

[not_so_special]

Not at all surprised.

Sony and MS are competitors, certainly, but they also need each other. Neither of them want to be the odd man out with a weird structure that can't easily be ported to.

If you think Nintendo's situation is bad, imagine what Microsoft would need to deal with given their first party offerings if they created a platform that third parties ignored.

thats true,microsoft first party is just halo,forza and some kinect here and there

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Unless MS shows those features actually working with on stage demonstrations.

Yeah, this is really what a later announcement should guarantee. MS' showing has to be heavy on polished and ready-to-use appearance and promises of full operation by launch day or some other firm time table given, not just sometime in a nebulous future vision or dream. They might even have final hardware to show off a solid look at game demos/interface/apps, too, I'd hope. Sony called MS out in February and has been riding high ever since, so MS has to put more of their cards on the table in their first reveal just to get in the game to start.

 

[timetokill]

What I expect is:

- 8GB DDR3
- Better CPU than PS4
- Cheaper than PS4
- Subscription model

 

[Wynnebeck]

We'll see about that

See about what? It's pretty cut and dry. To the average consumer if Durango is revealed with many of the same features as PS4, then people are going to go with the perception that MS is playing catchup with Sony announcing the same features after they revealed them first. MS's reveal of Durango has to be a grand slam and not just a double.

 

[Bgamer90]

See about what? It's pretty cut and dry. To the average consumer if Durango is revealed with many of the same features as PS4, then people are going to go with the perception that MS is playing catchup with Sony announcing the same features after they revealed them first.

Heh, not really. Especially if the Xbox ends up being cheaper.

Average consumers don't view the announcement of features in that fashion; especially if the two competing products will be released at pretty much around the same time.

 

[KageMaru]

You were complaining about there not being enough drama about things that were pretty clearly presented as "not ready for launch". Company loyalists always form irrational conclusions, like claiming there wasn't enough outrage about a competitor's non-news.

I wasn't complaining about anything, I was merely joking around about a certain [loud] group here is all. Company loyalty and irrational behavior have nothing to do with my comments, especially when I plan to buy the PS4 first and foremost.

 

[Spongebob]

What I expect is:

- 8GB DDR3
- Better CPU than PS4
- Cheaper than PS4
- Subscription model

Same CPU, but Durango will have more cores dedicated to OS functions.

 

[netBuff]

Now you're claiming to know what it takes to build a gaming cloud vs a software/os cloud? Who's claiming to be an insider now?

Clearly there's no arguing with you. Enjoy E3 through those rose-tinted glasses...

What are you talking about? It seems like there's no arguing with you. Azure isn't a game streaming service, something that comes with its own unique set of challenges. We know for a fact that Sony has a working product with Gaikai, we don't know the same about Microsoft.

But the PS4 is going to have a lot of the same functionality. Something that's just a "game console" and nothing more just doesn't work in today's market in terms of having that console last more than 2 years. People want $300+ tech devices to have things similar to their other $300+ tech devices.

On top of that, Xbox (and seemingly PS) are getting deals with companies/channels that aren't on TVs or Roku boxes. For example, the Xbox being an easy way to watch ESPN content on TV is huge for many cord cutters.

If anything, the reason why cable is declining in importance is because of these streaming media tech devices.

The cable model as it works in the US has never functioned this way in most of Europe, cable's importance is highly diminished outside the US. And even in the US it is declining.

People already own cable boxes, cable providers would rather not involve third parties: Watching cable on an Xbox isn't going to make a compelling argument to most - especially not outside the US, when practically every modern TV can receive digital cable (DVB-C in Europe).

I wasn't complaining about anything, I was merely joking around about a certain [loud] group here is all. Company loyalty and irrational behavior have nothing to do with my comments, especially when I plan to buy the PS4 first and foremost.

And I'm planning on buying an Xbox first (I'm most likely getting both systems, but when pressed for an answer and if the rumours so far turn out to be true I'm much more interested in the PS4).

 

[Thorgal]

1 + 2 = 3, but 2 + 1 =/= 3?

as i said what will be the main focus or road that they will take with these boxes?

one of the reasons i stayed with playstation since the first one was because while they where trying to invade your living room even then the main focus was always games.

i did not buy a ps1 because it had a CD player
i did not buy a ps 2 because it had a cheap DVD player
and whille horribly expensive i did not buy a ps3 because it had blue ray or could play netflix .

and it seems with ps4 they will continue that focus on gaming first .services .apps. second

i think a lot of gamers would agree with me on this .

so now its up to MS to show me their focus with the 720.

same focus on games as sony ? GREAT.

services like netflix or any other app put on a higher priority then the games themselves and they have lost my interest.

 

[dancmc]

See about what? It's pretty cut and dry. To the average consumer if Durango is revealed with many of the same features as PS4, then people are going to go with the perception that MS is playing catchup with Sony announcing the same features after they revealed them first. MS's reveal of Durango has to be a grand slam and not just a double.

No offense; but I don't think the "average consumer" pays any attention to announcements and really will only be comparing feature sets when they are ready to plunk down their money. I really don't think that people are going to steer clear from the durango this fall because of the perception that Sony announced that multiplat game or feature set first.

 

[Bgamer90]

The cable model as it works in the US has never worked this way in most of Europe, cable's importance is highly diminished outside the US. And even in the US it is declining.

Yes, and again, that's because of media streaming devices.

A growing rate of current 20-35 year olds (who also make up a large portion of people who play video games) are becoming cord cutters.

People already own cable boxed, cable providers would rather not involve third parties: Watching cable on an Xbox isn't going to make a compelling argument to most.

Depends on what the content is as well as the way(s) in which the person can watch it.

You are saying this when yet people on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 spend more time with media than actually playing games.

 

[Zen]

These things are already absurdly similar and we knew they would have similar features

 

[netBuff]

No offense; but I don't think the "average consumer" pays any attention to announcements and really will only be comparing feature sets when they are ready to plunk down their money. I really don't think that people are going to steer clear from the durango this fall because of the perception that Sony announced that multiplat game or feature set first.

Consumers also shouldn't care about who announced anything first: What matters is the quality of the product - if another company emulates something a competitor did first, that's to the buyer's advantage.

Yes, and again, that's because of media streaming devices.

A growing rate of current 20-35 year olds (who also make up a large portion of people who play video games) are becoming cord cutters.



Depends on what the content is as well as the way(s) in which the person can watch it.

You are saying this when yet people on both the PS3 and Xbox 360 spend more time with media than actually playing games.

That's hardly surprising. But popular services are interested in being present on pretty much any platform: We're not going to see very important services exclusives to a single console.

 

[KageMaru]

Same CPU, but Durango will have more cores dedicated to OS functions.

Do you know this as a fact or are just guessing? It wouldn't surprise me if this were true, but with MS being so willing to throw extra custom chips in the device, it's disappointing they couldn't include an ARM CPU (or something) to handle the OS functions.

 

[Bgamer90]

as i said what will be the main focus or road that they will take with these boxes?

one of the reasons i stayed with playstation since the first one was because while they where trying to invade your living room even then the main focus was always games.

i did not buy a ps1 because it had a CD player
i did not buy a ps 2 because it had a cheap DVD player
and whille horribly expensive i did not buy a ps3 because it had blue ray or could play netflix .

and it seems with ps4 they will continue that focus on gaming first .services .apps. second

i think a lot of gamers would agree with me on this .

so now its up to MS to show me their focus with the 720.

same focus on games as sony ? GREAT.

services like netflix or any other app put on a higher priority then the games themselves and they have lost my interest.

But will people on forums like this determine that by actual game output or by the differences in advertising and conference presentation points?

It seems like more here do the latter than the former.

 

[GrandHarrier]

I was getting a bit saddened that I might actually have to switch to Sony at first as a 360 first gamer. But now the rumors are seeming to suggest that I don't have to worry? This is great.

 

[RetroStu]

24 million shipped. Just because GAFers are vocally against it doesn't mean the mainstream isn't interested. Besides, in your previous post you made it clear that your opinion is not to be taken seriously.

100 million Wii's sold and look where that is now, whats your point?

 

[Bgamer90]

100 million Wii's sold and look where that is now, whats your point?

What's yours?

Why talk and/or give importance to sales in the first place then?

 

[Spongebob]

Do you know this as a fact or are just guessing? It wouldn't surprise me if this were true, but with MS being so willing to throw extra custom chips in the device, it's disappointing they couldn't include an ARM CPU (or something) to handle the OS functions.

Heavilly rumored and Bkillian confirmed it. GopherD here said that the PS4 used 1 core or less for OS functions.

 

[Zen]

Do you know this as a fact or are just guessing? It wouldn't surprise me if this were true, but with MS being so willing to throw extra custom chips in the device, it's disappointing they couldn't include an ARM CPU (or something) to handle the OS functions.

All the leaks have been saying that it will have more cores dedicated to the OS. I think 2 was the number.

Also rumors of the PS4 CPU being bumped to 2ghz, Durango could get that as well one would imagine.

 

[Klocker]

Regarding the online services... Bet your ass MS will have full service cloud features this Gen. Possibly even ready at launch with improvements over time

 

[KageMaru]

I was getting a bit saddened that I might actually have to switch to Sony at first as a 360 first gamer. But now the rumors are seeming to suggest that I don't have to worry? This is great.

Really? The experience I've had with the PS3 and 360 are so close that it's hard to care who's providing me my next console. First party games do matter, but I've enjoyed games from both companies that choosing what system to get is usually a toss up. I'm just going with the more powerful of the two or maybe both at launch.

Heavilly rumored and Bkillian confirmed it. GopherD here said that the PS4 used 1 core or less for OS functions.

Really? I try to keep up at B3D, but I've been so busy lately, do you have a link perhaps?

Also really disappointed that a core is used on the PS4, I thought that was at least confirmed to have an additional chip handling the OS. =/

 

[J-Rod]

I thought this was already known based on the leaks. The background downloading, play while downloading, the quick booting, and other no wait features that were described in that document everyone had a fit over almost exactly how it was in the Sony conference.

 

[Thorgal]

Really? The experience I've had with the PS3 and 360 are so close that it's hard to care who's providing me my next console. First party games do matter, but I've enjoyed games from both companies that choosing what system to get is usually a toss up. I'm just going with the more powerful of the two or maybe both at launch.



Really? I try to keep up at B3D, but I've been so busy lately, do you have a link perhaps?

Also really disappointed that a core is used on the PS4, I thought that was at least confirmed to have an additional chip handling the OS. =/

well we do know that all the sharing features will be handled by an chip so it will not be a resource hog for the RAM.

and besides using one( perhaps even half ) core out of 8 total is in no way a bad thing.

 

[Satchel]

Right, but it's not going to be required to be hooked up and configured.

Most likely it will. It assigns and tracks the controller, so Um yeah.

 

[netBuff]

Most likely it will. It assigns and tracks the controller, so Um yeah.

It doesn't (but as to whether it will be a required connection: Who knows?)

 

[Mandoric]

I'm talking about popping up,plus i already said it's nothing wrong with that,put your negative to something or someone else Takuya

Huh, I thought the Xbox ecosystem was supposed to be about choice. Choice to go with wired or wireless controls, choice to upgrade to new media or stick with tried-and-true DVD, choice to invest in a hard drive, use inexpensive memory units, or bring my own USB storage.

When did this change to "it works for most people, so it's what you're getting"?

 

[Spongebob]

Really? I try to keep up at B3D, but I've been so busy lately, do you have a link perhaps?

Also really disappointed that a core is used on the PS4, I thought that was at least confirmed to have an additional chip handling the OS. =/

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691543&postcount=17577

In response to these quotes from AndyH regarding Durango (ignore the Wii U stuff and scroll down).

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691527&postcount=17568

 

[thuway]

Water is wet as well.

This doesn't really touch on anything other than saying both consoles will be social and connected. Let me know when we start talking final HW.

Both consoles will have some neat features just like the current gen systems have so this is really not the news I was hoping for other than a Ubisoft dev stating the obvious.

I think you should know what to expect out of final hardware .

 

[clav]

Now let's "turn" it negative

Microsoft copied Sony.

m$

 

[Saberus]

Think no matter what system you support, make sure you support it well. With news today of more studios closing down, it's even more important to support your system. If not, then this next gen could be the last.

 

[SapientWolf]

24 million shipped. Just because GAFers are vocally against it doesn't mean the mainstream isn't interested. Besides, in your previous post you made it clear that your opinion is not to be taken seriously.

It doesn't matter that they're interested in the hardware if they're not buying games.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Games and ecosystem...

that's the only meaningful difference the consoles will have I think...

launching in the same year...
Focus on competitive price-points with the current economy...
Nintendo not taking off with some radically new idea to copy for casuals...

Reasonable, these platforms have to be similar technically...So, I'm just ready for those exclusives, that's how I'll decide. Really they will just be too close to have both, especially early on...Will get a WiiU before I get a PS4 & 720.

 

[[Clark Gable]]

Not at all surprised.

Sony and MS are competitors, certainly, but they also need each other. Neither of them want to be the odd man out with a weird structure that can't easily be ported to.

If you think Nintendo's situation is bad, imagine what Microsoft would need to deal with given their first party offerings if they created a platform that third parties ignored.

Subjective, I am sure you know this.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

See about what? It's pretty cut and dry. To the average consumer if Durango is revealed with many of the same features as PS4, then people are going to go with the perception that MS is playing catchup with Sony announcing the same features after they revealed them first. MS's reveal of Durango has to be a grand slam and not just a double.

Go out on the street and ask the "average consumer" what a PS4 looks like, what its OS looks like, and to list 5 reasons why it's different/better than PS360. Then realize that MS and Sony are not Apple and Samsung, and no one cares who reveals videogame consoles first.

Obviously MS can't show the same games at their conference and nothing more, they need software to justify the console's existence more than anything.

 

[KageMaru]

well we do know that all the sharing features will be handled by an chip so it will not be a resource hog for the RAM.

and besides using one( perhaps even half ) core out of 8 total is in no way a bad thing.

No it's not that bad, but it is puzzling IMO. Features like sharing would be an OS built in function, or so I would assume. So if this would mean they have a separate chip to handle some OS functions while using a Jag core for other functions. Would be interested to know why they couldn't just dedicate extra chips entirely to the OS.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691543&postcount=17577

In response to these quotes from AndyH regarding Durango (ignore the Wii U stuff and scroll down).

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1691527&postcount=17568

Ahh I see, thanks. I did read these but I had hoped something has changed since then. Those older rumors are insane for OS usage and I'll be laughing at MS if this ends up true. Such a waste of resources IMO.

 

[iMax]

http://www.edge-online.com/news/playstation-4-revealed/2/

Sorry dude, they're unconfirmed until Microsoft says so.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Most likely it will. It assigns and tracks the controller, so Um yeah.

No where during the presentation did they mention this, in fact they barely even mentioned the PS eye.