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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)

A

Angelus Errare

Banned
XtremeXpider said:
Ok, but MS will pay rights to bluray Association (a lot of companies, included Sony), not "to Sony" as some people think.
Click to expand...

They could always pass off the buck to the user ala Xbox. Though people also need to realize there are two fees; patent for the actual DVD drive (and with Durango Blu Ray drive), the actual discs and video playback. Nintendo is still paying that patent fee for Wii U but no license fee to play video.

People tend to forget that the disc drive and disc themselves aren't "free".
 
D

Diablos

Member
XtremeXpider said:
Ok, but MS will pay rights to bluray Association (a lot of companies, included Sony), not "to Sony" as some people think.



Just put any object in front of Kinect.



Why? Xbox 360 is using DVD, and the first Xbox too. Bluray is not a "Sony" format, it is a standar format, just like the DVD or CD. Nintendo is using Bluray for Wii U games.
Click to expand...
Because of the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war, first and foremost. And Blu-Ray is Sony's baby. PS3 really helped to push it over the edge.
 
K

Klocker

Member
StudioTan said:
This is extremely likely to NOT be the case.

When they talk about an "always on, always online" they mean that even when "Off" the console can still be connected to the internet and can therefore perform functions such as automatic downloading. Like if you're at work and your Xbox is off, you buy a game from the online store, the Xbox wakes up and downloads it and goes back into powersaving mode. That doesn't mean an internet connection is required to play games.
Click to expand...

Exactly. thank you

Geezus the jumping to conclusions in this thread.

As mentioned earlier also, Kinect -all of MS voice services- use the same online data base for its voice recognition software to learn and improve and confirm data. I suspect, MS expects most people will be speaking to their machine
 
R

Rubius

Member
sangreal said:
This very article says influence of porn is overrated. It's also a speculative article and those plans didn't work out. There weren't a lot of people pressing bluray discs in the early days and they wouldn't press porn discs. The porn industry supported HD DVD as a result. Here is a (more recent) article on that: http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/04/06/us-column-pluggedin-idUSN0435538720070406



While the industry isn't monolithic I really don't' think you will find any numbers to back the claim that they had any impact on the "war" at all. The war was over when Warner went from neutral to blu-ray
Click to expand...

Ah nice, didnt know that. Pretty bad move from Sony. They probably didnt want to look bad by adopting the porn industry. Weird, I was 98% sure that porn was the reason we have bluray. Thanks for educating me :). Could not do the research at the job as I was finished there.

Angelus Errare said:
To make it worse...you have to be a gold member lol
Click to expand...

Damn, imagine this "To use your xbox, you have to pay 15$ a month, or you wont be able to play your games."
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
Diablos said:
Because of the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray format war, first and foremost. And Blu-Ray is Sony's baby. PS3 really helped to push it over the edge.
Click to expand...

Blu-Ray might be Sony's baby, but when they established BDA they aren't the sole receivers of any royalties/fees, their situation in that regard is basically the same as with DVD and CD.

And let's face it the only way Sony's formats ever take off is when they stop making them proprietary (though technically DVD isn't Sony's baby, they got in on royalty fees/license monies because they combined their disc idea MMCD with Toshiba, Time Warner, Matsushita and others' Super density discs).
 
I

Imm0rt4l

Member
sangreal said:
No, that's actually a huge jump. It's the same way PC works. There isn't any suggestion that you can never use the disk again. There are rumors about whether someone else can use the disk (and if you can install and run the game without a disk then reason would suggest that no, nobody else can use it). Technically that is probably more tied to a code or something anyway and not the disk. I really don't see any reason why the disc would suddenly become useless or how they would even do that
Click to expand...

I assumed that's what he was talking about
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
WordAssassin said:
http://www.nintendo.com/wiiu/features/whats-in-the-box/

Yes it does, it's required to use the Wii Remote, which is the main controller for anyone not using the tablet. I'm fairly certain the tablet has the Wii Remote parts in it too, but I'm not at home right now so I can't check. But the tablet does have pointer functionality so...
Click to expand...

Not in the UK.

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Wii-U/Hardware-Features/Hardware-packs/Hardware-packs-663024.html

Pretty shitty of Nintendo to include the sensor bar in the basic in the US but not in the UK. Classic Nintendo, screwing over the UK market. Well, at least this time it's backfired and their console is dying a slow, protracted death.
 
Alx

Alx

Member
Jac_Solar said:
I assume they want to track people on camera in realtime for whatever purpose, and/or perhaps sell the footage to whoever.
Click to expand...

Come on, not only would it be illegal, but it would be worthless. Who would buy footage of random people scratching their balls on their couch ? It has no marketing value.
We already know (or suspect) that kinect will be included in the console HMI, and that's why it is required all the time : because without it many features wouldn't be available.

I'll admit though that there are tracking information that can have value for a content provider, mostly based on counting the members of the audience. MS already know which ad or trailer or movie you watched, but they don't know how many people were watching it. Having kinect count the people in the living room can help them fine tune the cost of the ads.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
Jac_Solar said:
I assume Kinect comes with every console as well, which is very weird. Forced Kinect, forced online.

I assume they want to track people on camera in realtime for whatever purpose, and/or perhaps sell the footage to whoever.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but can you point out where it says forced online? Always online, always connected isn't the same as forced online. They are two entirely different things with entirely different meanings.

I'd also ask what possible reason could they have to capture footage of gamers and sell it? Not only is it illegal, it simply isn't workable and doesn't make an iota of sense. Kinect is obviously being used to help navigate the UI. You use motion controls to navigate between menus or use voice commands to access games/menus/content without ever having to press a button.

The lack of critical thinking/reading comprehension in this thread worries me greatly.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
I honestly think the people assuming that always online means "online connection required to play games" are going to eat crow.

"Always Online" as a marketing term used to describe the fact that the Next Xbox can (more than likely) be always connected even while not being fully on for updates/downloads when a person is away from their console make far more sense.

I guess we will see. Overall, a really good amount of people jumping to conclusions when yet all we have to do is wait a few more weeks for actual solid/confirmed info.
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
AltogetherAndrews said:
As if I'm going to have an active camera hooked up to my always connected system in my living room. Coffin, meet final nail.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that you will still have the option to turn the camera/voice controls off if kinect (somehow) needs to be connected to the Xbox for it to function.

Already went over the "always connected" stuff...
 
C

ChosenPredator

Banned
with the way this thread went Microsoft can only shock people now since it seems everyone is 100 percent sure this is what it's going to be for MS, can't disappoint anymore since expectations are horrendously low right now.
 
K

Krilekk

Banned
There are so many reasons to go fully digital with at least one SKU.

Size. Disc drives are the main reason that influence console design.

Heat. Disc drives generate a lot of heat which leads to even larger console designs.

Noise. Disc drives are noisy as hell. To counter it you'd have to build even more expensive, larger noise reduced consoles.

Speed. Even 6x BD drives only manage a peak transfer rate of 28 MB/s. The average is even lower. HDDs start at 100 MB/s. With SSDs reaching 500 MB/s (but those won't be in next gen consoles).

Cost. Disc drives are one of the biggest cost factor in a console design.

Profit. Companies get 30 % revenue on every dollar spent digitally on their platform. They get about 12 % of retail sales.

Digital stores. They don't want you to play your BDs, they want you to stream movies.

Comfort. It's actually very nice to be able to play all your games from HDD. I have 26 disc based retail games on 360 and 20 games on demand. Guess which I play more often. And I can take my whole library to friends by simply logging in on their 360 with my gamertag. And they can play those games on their own gamertags as long as I'm logged in. Of course I live in a country not bound by traffic limits, I can max out my 50 MBit line and noone cares. Almost any game download takes 10 min max. So bring it, MS, I want my super slim 720.
 
K

Krilekk

Banned
Rubius said:
Ah nice, didnt know that. Pretty bad move from Sony. They probably didnt want to look bad by adopting the porn industry. Weird, I was 98% sure that porn was the reason we have bluray. Thanks for educating me :). Could not do the research at the job as I was finished there.



Damn, imagine this "To use your xbox, you have to pay 15$ a month, or you wont be able to play your games."
Click to expand...

Imagine "you have to pay 19.99 a month to play every game ever released on our platform".
 
C

c0de

Member
StudioTan said:
This is extremely likely to NOT be the case.

When they talk about an "always on, always online" they mean that even when "Off" the console can still be connected to the internet and can therefore perform functions such as automatic downloading. Like if you're at work and your Xbox is off, you buy a game from the online store, the Xbox wakes up and downloads it and goes back into powersaving mode. That doesn't mean an internet connection is required to play games.
Click to expand...

Or automated patching? Isn't this what some ps3-users are doing with psn+ because of the crappy patching-system although the ps3 doesn't feature low-power-state?
 
W

whitehawk

Banned
DieH@rd said:
In short, anyone saw X360 integration into VS2012 will feel at home.
Article @ http://www.vgleaks.com/durango-xdk/

The most interesting part:
durangoxdk41la1.jpg


- Always on, Always connected
- Low powered mode
- Kinect sold with every console, wider FOV, no motors, better tracking
- Kinect is required to be plugged in
- Low latency controller with "improved ergonomics", simplified interaction with console OS
- Bluray drive
- All games must be installed on HDD [you can start playing few secs after installation starts], game data streaming from optical disc not supported
- Only digital audio out
Click to expand...
- What if I just turn the kinect around?
- I highly doubt this part.
 
C

c0de

Member
Krilekk said:
There are so many reasons to go fully digital with at least one SKU.

Size. Disc drives are the main reason that influence console design.

Heat. Disc drives generate a lot of heat which leads to even larger console designs.

Noise. Disc drives are noisy as hell. To counter it you'd have to build even more expensive, larger noise reduced consoles.

Speed. Even 6x BD drives only manage a peak transfer rate of 28 MB/s. The average is even lower. HDDs start at 100 MB/s. With SSDs reaching 500 MB/s (but those won't be in next gen consoles).

Cost. Disc drives are one of the biggest cost factor in a console design.

Profit. Companies get 30 % revenue on every dollar spent digitally on their platform. They get about 12 % of retail sales.

Digital stores. They don't want you to play your BDs, they want you to stream movies.

Comfort. It's actually very nice to be able to play all your games from HDD. I have 26 disc based retail games on 360 and 20 games on demand. Guess which I play more often. And I can take my whole library to friends by simply logging in on their 360 with my gamertag. And they can play those games on their own gamertags as long as I'm logged in. Of course I live in a country not bound by traffic limits, I can max out my 50 MBit line and noone cares. Almost any game download takes 10 min max. So bring it, MS, I want my super slim 720.
Click to expand...

Nice summary of why discs suck. They ever did and ever will. One thing you forgot: ODDs are set to break! I had to exchange several over the years on my PC and it was quite an issue with ps3 (don't know if it is still).
 
T

ThisWreckage

Banned
I'll wait until we know all the details, but this console seems like it isn't being directed at me. The Kinect bit completely rubs me the wrong way.
 
daninthemix

daninthemix

Member
The mandatory install part will at least mean developers are all on the same level and developing for the same target - that is, streaming from HDD.

Then again, how long will it take to install an entire Blu ray? AFAIK PS3 games only install partially.
 
D

doniewhalberg

Member
Mmm. I still want one, for the first party titles. Seems like a ps4 will be my first port of call though, if all that is true. I'll definitely be looking to be able to rent games through the launch year while they gouge £50 out of you per game (or at least try), and if it's only MS that does this installing/maybe activation code for games, ps4 seems like just as good a call first since I want both. Especially then, since I'll have a machine that does the third party games, I'd probably be holding off 6 months to a year for the MS console, until the first party stuff has built up to a purchase-able level.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
I assume this is info that by now is quite old (i.e. probably from the SuperDAE leak?)

Re. 'always connected', I remember PS3 and 360 being pitched the same way. I don't think it means you have to have it always online.

However I think you will have to go online to authorise a machine to play a game. The mandatory installation suggests that.

So I think - insert disc, go online to authorise machine, game starts to install - and thereafter I think you'll be able to go offline and play offline if you want. Just a guess.

What that means for second hand games, I'm not sure. They could have a mechanism for de-authorising a machine, freeing up the disc to be installed on another. Maybe this tiny little hurdle got misconstrued as 'omg, no used games?'. Or maybe it is as aggressive as de-authorising not being allowed. That would be a proper barrier to second hand sales, but I'm not sure they'll do that.

The requirement for a (temporary) net connection to even play games is a bit of a step up over previous requirements, but I guess Microsoft wants as many Durangos as possible to be net-connected since I guess they make more money off networked consumers than offline ones.
 
W

w1y!

Banned
Wait a min people. Is this just the very old doc which has been the source of everything.

This doesn't confirm anything.

I have a feeling the Durango is going to be designed to force you to cough up as much money as possible. So expect a ridiculous loss lead price but be wary.

Want a used game. Pay ms a fee to activate

Want the app to control remotely. Pay for that app

Want a game. Download It straight from ms missing out the middle man but costing the same

Run out of space. Buy cloud space

The controller is interesting. I wonder if there will be a mini keyboard blackberry style

There is no reason for kinect to have to be always connected unless there is a money to be made from it. Or it acts as a controller on the menu

In fact expect a lot of this from both systems
 
B

Bgamer90

Banned
Freshmaker said:
http://boingboing.net/2012/11/08/microsoft-patents-spying-on-yo.html
http://www.lazygamer.net/xbox-360/kinect-is-spying-on-you/
http://www.thegamersparadise.com/xbox/worried-about-microsoft-spying-on-you-throughkinect-sensor

It's a very poorly kept secret.
Click to expand...

Had a discussion with someone that said that it could possibly be for the Xbox to stream movies before they come out on DVD/blu-ray [ticket like per-person payment(s) with the help of kinect].

Thought it was an interesting point.

Guess we'll see.
 
N

NemesisPrime

Banned
Why this rage vs the "always on" thing.

My PC atm is always on, heck even my 360 is always on, my iPad is always on and my phone is always on.

Do you guys live in caves or what?

Always on means that some online things are still active... almost certainly notifications and background downloads.

Oh and the no streaming from disk is AWESOME. Finally I can get rid of disks. Install once, never look back and nice and silent as well. F*ck the noisy consoles of this gen. MS also made sure they can go all digital with this, since people can start playing very quick while the game is downloading. These are all great features.

Some of you people here are so emo, you can cry even under water.
 
M

MrNyarlathotep

Banned
Bgamer90 said:
"Always Online" as a marketing term used to describe the fact that the Next Xbox can (more than likely) be always connected even while not being fully on for updates/downloads when a person is away from their console make far more sense.
Click to expand...

Isn't it more likely to be a marketing term to make something horrible more palatable to people by making it sound like its adding value rather than removing it?
 
J

Jac_Solar

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
I'm sorry, but can you point out where it says forced online? Always online, always connected isn't the same as forced online. They are two entirely different things with entirely different meanings.

I'd also ask what possible reason could they have to capture footage of gamers and sell it? Not only is it illegal, it simply isn't workable and doesn't make an iota of sense. Kinect is obviously being used to help navigate the UI. You use motion controls to navigate between menus or use voice commands to access games/menus/content without ever having to press a button.

The lack of critical thinking/reading comprehension in this thread worries me greatly.
Click to expand...

Combined with the rumors of always online, and now always connected, along with the ridiculous idea of forcing Kinect on everyone (And for it to be plugged in!), I'll just assume that they are going all the way. If not, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

"Always on, always connected" also jumps out a bit -- perhaps it means that it's similar to the PS3, where it's always connected and will automatically patch/update your games, for example. Perhaps you can even choose to toggle that option off. But if that's all it is, then the emphasis, or focus on such a low-key feature is a bit weird, considering the PS3 has been doing it for several years.

It sounds like it could simply be a PR/market-friendly way of saying that you are required to be online if you want to play, or, somehow, that always online is simply a consequence, or "necessary" for their "always online plans".

My comment regarding the Kinect video thing was a joke -- I thought it would be clear that I was being sarcastic, since it's such an exaggerated/ridiculous claim.

EDIT; Turns out my exaggerated, ridiculous notion of Kinect being used as a spycamera wasn't that ridiculous after all. Still, they demand that Kinect has to be plugged in -- on your "always connected" console. Why wouldn't Microsoft push for always online?
 
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