I can't find anything about selling video footage to third-parties in there. Maybe you can lend me your goggles and I'll give the articles a second do-over?
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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
I can't find anything about selling video footage to third-parties in there. Maybe you can lend me your goggles and I'll give the articles a second do-over?
Yes, since totally blocking the large group of people that still don't have broadband internet connections (even though they would still be willing to pay a decent amount of money to play games offline) makes far more sense than "always online" simply meaning downloads away from home!
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
I find it out they said
"Durango will implement different power states so that it can always be powered on, but will draw minimal electricity when not in use.
The console will be ready instantly when users want to play, and will always maintain a network connection so that console software and games are always current."
Exactly, always on and mandatory installs being standard is very welcome. These two features will be branded along side the box of the next-gen Xbox and rightfully so.
shinra-bansho
Member
Demographic data derived from Kinect would be useful for targeted advertising.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Yeah, I can see why Sony was looking into RFID (Radio Frequency ID) being incorporated in the Blu-ray disk. If every game is installed onto the Hard disk then the blu-ray disk can't be used as a dongle/DRM device which would allow multiple copies on multiple consoles possible. One way to secure DRM is to require an always on connection to check the game serial number before running and the other off-line way would be RFID and if the blu-ray RFID can be scanned from about 3 feet it's not an inconvenience.
If Sony does this then I think Microsoft will also, in any case both have to support some form of DRM or the backlash on the one that does support it will be too great.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
That's just one application. The peeking at your teamshirt/jersey while your'e watching a football game tailor ad content was more of what I was thinking of.
Alx
Member
That's not spying if you're intentionally wearing a jersey to let everybody know who you're supporting...
Marketing companies pay lots, and lots of money for information on the habits of consumers.
If Microsoft had 20 million online users, surfing on their new nextbox that they have complete control over, they could probably make a lot of money just by selling that information.
A console is a closed environment where Microsoft can control every single thing -- ads, available games, price of games, price of renting/buying a movie, browser (Most likely.), what kind of movies you watch, what kind of games you play, for how long, when, even the fonts, colors, etc. They know your every move.
The ad people can of course track consumers on the world wide web in general, but it's probably far less accurate and reliable.
You think having Kinect features in the games is a plus??
Well it's supposed to be an enhanced kinect, so I wouldn't dismiss it outright. We shall see the final result when it's released.
travisbickle
Member
Mandatory installs with no streaming off disk!!
Well I guess MS could provide customers with a way of deactivating their install so they can sell the disc.
Maybe MS will sell a 3G version of the 720 for people without Internet to authenticate their game installs every time they play?
Well I guess MS could provide customers with a way of deactivating their install so they can sell the disc.
Maybe MS will sell a 3G version of the 720 for people without Internet to authenticate their game installs every time they play?
RF-id is also great because it can be scanned without a console. Trade-in locations like gamestop can easily check if a game is locked to a user or not. ( If they use that model ). A proper install-unistall option will need something like this, and Sony could aim for a "best of both worlds" approach. Still, any kind of "lock while installed" will make uncontrolled trading more risky. Simply checking disk condition used to suffice.
Microsoft wants instant game switching, so that if you get an invite you can join that game instantly. Any disk based authentication is simply a hinderance in this model. Sony will need something similar if they want to compete with that functionality, and RF-ID has many advantages to reading the disk in the drive.
shinra-bansho
Member
There are already billboards in Japan that can detect your age and gender and try and tailor ads towards you based on facial recognition.
IBM are developing similar technology but it uses RFID from things like credit cards.
People wanted Kinect to be like Minority Report.
I wonder if, iirc, Sony incorporating RFID tech could be used to similar effect.
jeff_rigby
Banned
And Streaming games, even Xbox 720 games Gaikai like although that would require the AMD GPU and X86 CPUs to wake up.
The XDK doesn't mention the OS features listed in the Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint but I expect those to be a part of the OS even though not mentioned yet.
Accelerated ASIC NUI for Kinect as part of the low power always on (in the Leaked powerpoint) would support gesture and maybe voice recognition "Xbox On". Basic language carefully chosen minimum library of commands so that they are phonetically discernible will probably not require on-line; learning is possible.
XTV (Google TV like) support should also be low power including a HTML5 browser which might have a ARM Mali or ARM derived GPU to accelerate the browser.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
Do they install them in people's apartments?
NemesisPrime
Banned
Yes we talked about this many times before.
There is more to Kinect than arm waving games.
For example... the new XBox will know who is playing and use the settings for that player (gamepad config, save games, ....). Also if you leave the game could pause (a big feature of the new Galaxy Phone everybody is raving about).
If a second player picks up the controller, the new XBox will know who it is also and could take some actions based on that.
It is all up to the devs. MS just builds lego blocks for them to use.
shinra-bansho
Member
People are too lazy to push a button to pause their game before leaving?
"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service."
Fair game.
Meh. If you choose to buy a Kinect and put it in your apartment and use the services even when there's a crystal clear disclaimer:
"You should not expect any level of privacy concerning your use of the live communication features (for example, voice chat, video and communications in live-hosted gameplay sessions) offered through the Service."
Fair game.
Please tell me you don't think it's monitoring you and sending footage of you somewhere.
Stripper13
Member
To put this whole issue into context:
Your mobile phone content consumption habits tell advertisers far more than the Xbox/Kinect ever will. Yes, potentially they could (a massive leap here) target ads at you based on what you are wearing and/or body shape, gender etc - depending on what Kinect can actually do with a degree of accuracy. However, they won't.
Why?
Because advertisers pay to advertise by the thousands of users/impressions. There is simply no cost effective way to advertise on such a small scale. They could, with today's technology - and on a reasonably efficient scale - advertise based on your gender... however using the Kinect to enable that would be wasteful at best... because again, Advertisers already know what gender you are, your approximate age (25-29 etc.) and how you consume media (generally by platform, time spend etc.).
It's Kinect 2.0, and yes it is a plus since it will be standard so developers can take full advantage of it rather than being tact on like some other motion device.
Alx
Member
There may be privacy issues with user analysis and adaptive content, but I don't think the jersey scenario is a good example. The whole point of the jersey is to display your preferences to anybody. It's not private information if you want everybody to know about it.
As for a scenario with real privacy issue with similar technology, let's imagine that you're in your living room drinking a can of coke, the software recognizes the logo (like it would recognize a jersey logo) and sends you ads about coke. That is more an issue because you didn't intend to let anybody know what you're drinking, and don't want to be bothered about it (although it's already what's happening with internet ads like the one above).
Say you don't want it to pause? Maybe it's showing a cutscene you've already watched for example, or a part a film that you're not bothered about missing. I don't want the Kinect to assume I want X to happen (and this would apply to the Galaxy too).
Stripper13
Member
I might also add here - that ads - on the Xbox, are a relative non-issue. There are literally ads everywhere in all forms of media. And unless you are using an ad-blocker on every device, you are likely exposed to hundreds of them everyday.
So the next step forward, realistically, is to stop wasting my/your time with shitty non-relevant ads. If I'm going to get bombarded with ads everywhere - at least have them targeted effectively. I'm fine with ads on the dashboard of Xbox (I'm in Australia FYI) - because they are always game or movie related. That's shit that I'm interested in. More importantly, it's not a Skylanders Ad, or a Twilight movie ad - it's stuff I'm relatively interested in. Oh Gears of Judgement is coming soon? I can click that and get more information and/or view a video if I like. I can watch the latest Die Hard trailer if I like.
Oh hey, Dust: Elysian Tale has a free trial. Shit like that. It's not interrupting my use of the Xbox - but if I choose to look around, the information is (far) more often than not, relevant.
I'm likely in some minority here on GAF for feeling that way - but ads are inevitability. You can bet your ass if Sony or Nintendo had an effective, easy-to-use/easy-to-sell ad-serving system, you'd be seeing them a lot more too. It just so happens that Microsoft was ahead of the curve on this one.
Hmm, can't say there's anything enticing about the durango. Hopefully the console will be better than what all this suggests. Then again I almost would want such a terrible console that I can justify going wii u + ps4 only instead of having to buy all 3 consoles again for the 3rd generation in a row.
travisbickle
Member
MS aren't going to clarify 'always connected' if it means mandatory Internet requirement to help drm. They'll use the vague term 'always connected' in a positive light all the way upto consumers buying the product and finding out on pg 38 of the maual, troubleshooting, that a connection is mandatory.
"Forcing" Kinect into every SKU is the best they can do. Like many said, developers will find useful thinks to implement. Headtracking beeing just one of these. It won't be just for pure Kinect games but for enhancing "traditional" games. If the improve things like controlling the Xbox dashbord with it and further reduce the latency it really is a bonus for the next xbox.
Can't remember (the latest rumors) if Sony is also putting a camera into every PS4 sku but that would be wise.
I also can understand the fear of some who think that this could shift developer resources/focus more to casual "waggle" games but i really doubt it.
Can't remember (the latest rumors) if Sony is also putting a camera into every PS4 sku but that would be wise.
I also can understand the fear of some who think that this could shift developer resources/focus more to casual "waggle" games but i really doubt it.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
This doc is for devs,if it require online,they would just say it(like Kinect part and install game part),devs no mood to play word games
I would consider that to be a clarification. Sidestepping the issue is basically the same as confirming it.
I've got a Wii U and a huge backlog, so I will lean back and see how things turn out. Might even go Wii U + PC only after PS360Wii.
fastford58
Member
It's still just a tack on. Just because it's standard in the device doesn't mean devs are going to incorporate it in any meaningful or unique way.
Yay....vocal QTEs. Please, help me contain my excitement.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Wow... some people are control freaks
Maybe you can toggle it off or maybe Kinect will see that you are not interested on your face and NOT pause
(j/k)akachan ningen
Member
do you work for MS?
killer rin
Member
Of course, Kinects Voice Recognition is godlike.
Very shortsighted.
There are already a decent number of games in which voice controls are used for more than just "QTEs".
On top of that, I would also like to see the head tracking in Forza 4 be standard across all racing games that have a dashboard view. Really good feature for immersion -- especially when using a wheel.
people are reading lots into simple descriptions.
mandatory installs doesn't mean you can't sell your discs. It just means all games will be installed. Could simply be for performance reasons, and maybe it still uses the disc as a key, and maybe you can still sell them, just like current 360 games that you can install
Always-on doesn't mean always-on DRM. It just means the device is always connected to the internet when possible. Most likely for automatic downloads of patches etc as described. No indication that it won't let you play games offline.
mandatory installs doesn't mean you can't sell your discs. It just means all games will be installed. Could simply be for performance reasons, and maybe it still uses the disc as a key, and maybe you can still sell them, just like current 360 games that you can install
Always-on doesn't mean always-on DRM. It just means the device is always connected to the internet when possible. Most likely for automatic downloads of patches etc as described. No indication that it won't let you play games offline.
NemesisPrime
Banned
No.
But I develop on MS platforms yes.
It is just the blind rage that annoys me... people do not even think when they see "always on" and "Kinect". It is just like the old days when people raged at CDs and analog sticks etc...
travisbickle
Member
It's a pretty short description overview, yet uses the terms"always on" "always connected" "connected entertainment" and "always maintain a network connection". Isn't that enough for devs?
Hardly.
Already went over the "always online" stuff.
Having kinect in every system =/= automatically casual. It's more than likely going to be in every system for better support from devs who are interested in it. I'm assuming that during the first half of the gen that the kinect will be more for optional features in core games and controlling the system's interface.
Also, since about 85-90% of the games coming out on the PS4 and Next Xbox will more than likely be the same, I really don't get why some are assuming that the next Xbox will be a full on casual console.
shinra-bansho
Member
They already wrote it on the wall. They may as well draw a picture too. It doesn't matter if one intends to turn a blind eye to it anyway.
Ha, now that would be impressiveMaybe you can toggle it off or maybe Kinect will see that you are not interested on your face and NOT pause
And voice recognition needs a camera because....?
Judging from the continued laughably predictable responses, I'd say there's not a whole lot of "reading" going on.