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VGLeaks: First look as Durango XDK (always connected, kinect required, must install)
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
I don't think alpha kit spec does matter since MS will give developers their target performance(that's why i don't think it will big downgrade from E3 to release,especially when they should have playable at E3)
specialguy
Banned
well, the gpu is rumored at 5x the flops. so 3x bw is more close.
same with ps4, ps3 had about 50 gb. now ps4 has 176, about 3.5x.
mostly you could say bw is not keeping up with everything else in the tech world. not a problem unique to consoles.
SniperHunter
Banned
Or they want precise clock speeds and bus figures
specialguy
Banned
you can calculate precise clocks from the rumored flops and cu's. 800 mhz on the gpu.
sony confirmed the cu's, they didn't exactly confirm flops, but the rumor was 1.843 and at the event sony said "nearly 2 tf" so everybody took it too confirm 1.843.
edit: and i actually i believe sony confirmed 1.843, eg todays DF article.
I had to remove your from the IL just to reply to this.
I really don't know why you do this. Why do you keep arguing with the wrong facts? Why do you keep doing so when you've been corrected multiple times? Wow, it's like talking to a tape recorder on loop.
PS3 did NOT, I repeat DID NOT have 50GB/sec bandwidth. You just can't add 22.4 and 25.6 because not only is the math imprecise but it's wrong. It wasn't unified memory like 360 (efficient). It was the same story with RSX. Unified shaders of Xenos made the GPU much more efficient.
Fuck it. Back IL.
Funny post by Brad Genz @ B3D on the state of PR BS.
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1722984&postcount=2493
smh Crytek...
http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1722984&postcount=2493
smh Crytek...
SniperHunter
Banned
reiko cryek has a deal with ms, they are working on a game called ryse for durango.
I know. But I would like a confirmation on Crysis 3 Next Gen port.
SniperHunter
Banned
tbh i wasnt impressed with crysis 3 or cry engine 3, i cant type much cause i am on the vita....
instead of us being surprised we should see it as just how early we have had the PS4 revealed compared to past reveals and compared to how far off new machines are. I honestly didn't expect chit from either one of them until just prior to E3.
And they still have not shown a box etc and I think when MS reveals it will be for everything.
I really think Sony was concerned the 4GB issue was gonna bite them in the butt so they wanted to make it public ASAP
And they still have not shown a box etc and I think when MS reveals it will be for everything.
I really think Sony was concerned the 4GB issue was gonna bite them in the butt so they wanted to make it public ASAP
specialguy
Banned
in b4 crytek is rich from universities and militaries anyway.
Sorry to derail but I'm confused about how Ignore List works. How did you see the post in the first place? I thought you had to click on something on a posters profile then you couldn't see their posts anymore. If not then what's the point of it?
Brad Grenz
Member
My last name has an R in it.
The WiiU, PS3, Xbox and PS2 all announced well more than a year before launching.
Sometimes I do check posts regardless to see if valid pieces of info is presented in context of OP. I do this to see if I can remove that user from the list.
crazy. thanks though!
specialguy
Banned
yes, magically 25gb/s disappears on ps3. poof, it never existed. back to your regular scheduled program.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
What the heck. It doesn't work as you think it works. Since it's not unified.
specialguy
Banned
the gpu can use both pools of ram/bw. if it couldn't ps3 woulda been screwed.
Fuck everything.
D
Deleted member 80556
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, but the bandwiths don't add up magically. That's why I said it doesn't work as you think it does.
For those that wanted a link to what Brad Grenz was referring to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncORtSTpEAI
The PS4 is right behind him lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncORtSTpEAI
The PS4 is right behind him lol
Silly article because Crytek was one of the first to publicly congratulate Sony after they announced the specs for the PS4.
They have a launch game coming for the competition and they just want to keep the peace.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
would not mind at all if the next box was on the size of mini itx case like the coolermaster elite 120 mini itx
this guy put a gtx 690 in his.
would not mind at all if the next box was on the size of mini itx case like the coolermaster elite 120 mini itx
this guy put a gtx 690 in his.
Nice.
If he is complaining about that YouTube video then it's silly. That was strictly reluctance due to NDA and nothing else. They just didn't want to comment at the moment , but anyone can see that he what he was eluding to through his answers.
But my god. The graphics! Wow. The C3 engine is a beast. The footage was eye opening. Definately look fwd to seeing how Ryse turned out.
Ewww dat airflow. Reminds me of my old Alienware Aurora that used micro atx. Hated that overheating piece of shit. That 690 probably runs cooler than my 5870's ever did though.
specialguy
Banned
would not mind at all if the next box was on the size of mini itx case like the coolermaster elite 120 mini itx
this guy put a gtx 690 in his.
WHY DID YOU LEAK THE NEXT XBOX DEV KIT???!!! You'll got to jail for this!!!
LOL
Yeah. Crytek does have a past history of jumping through NDA hoops.
Dude even teased another partnership.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I think he means that the memory is not shared and thus doesn't contend with the CPU. It still won't ever look like 50GB/s, but that 25GB/s is dedicated to the GPU. The 176GB/s in the PS4 will get eaten by IO and the CPU a bit. It should still have ~150GB/s for the GPU, which is still ~6x.
specialguy
Banned
If that overview is correct, 25.6 goes to Cell but only 20 to the GPU? Odd.
So I guess it's 42.4 feeding RSX, to be pedantic.
Had the RSX not been able to texture from XDR, treat it like VRAM, PS3 woulda been in serious handicapped trouble.
So I guess it's 42.4 feeding RSX, to be pedantic.
Had the RSX not been able to texture from XDR, treat it like VRAM, PS3 woulda been in serious handicapped trouble.
eso76
Member
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I wish
. MIght build one of those to go under my tv instead of the next gen consoles
SenjutsuSage
Banned
The Move Engines most definitely help Durango with bandwidth, but they don't do so by giving Durango more bandwidth than what it already has. It helps Durango with bandwidth by using a max of up to 25GB/s of bandwidth from existing overall bandwidth to offload work from the rest of the GPU. That might not sound like a big enough number to some, but what's important about the Move Engines is that they can operate simultaneously with GPU computation, transferring data that would otherwise be transferred by using a shader, which will use notably more bandwidth speed than the Move Engines would need to. By having the move engines take care of some of this work, you remove the need for the GPU to do it on its own, which the GPU would utilize far more performance and speed doing, essentially giving the GPU more time to worry about other things than it would have without 4 Move Engines helping out.
During compute heavy situations, Move Engine operations are basically free because there is plenty enough bandwidth to spare to allow the Move Engines to do their job without taking away from bandwidth that is specifically needed elsewhere. During bandwidth heavy situations, move engine operations can still end up being effectively free if they use an alternate memory path than the one already being utilized at the moment by a shader. And even though while all 4 move engines are operating at the same time, they are sharing the same 25GB/s bandwidth speed between them all, this isn't necessarily a downside because you're able to transfer 4 separate streams of data in both directions at the same time at rather little bandwidth cost. The point of the Move Engines isn't to do things the fastest way possible, but to do very important things fast enough while using very little resources to do so, saving the GPU from having to do it itself, thus leaving it's available power and resources for other things.
So, if the purpose of the move engines is to get work out of the way so the GPU doesn't have to bother using even more bandwidth speed to get the job done, then they are indeed leading to more efficient use of memory bandwidth. That's the primary purpose of DMAs on GCN architecture and all 4 Move Engines have a DMA engine. Even the Radeon 7970 only has 2 DMA engines. And all 4 move engines can take care of another important task for the GPU, tiling and untiling, and it still goes on to have other important uses beyond that, but you get the point.
During compute heavy situations, Move Engine operations are basically free because there is plenty enough bandwidth to spare to allow the Move Engines to do their job without taking away from bandwidth that is specifically needed elsewhere. During bandwidth heavy situations, move engine operations can still end up being effectively free if they use an alternate memory path than the one already being utilized at the moment by a shader. And even though while all 4 move engines are operating at the same time, they are sharing the same 25GB/s bandwidth speed between them all, this isn't necessarily a downside because you're able to transfer 4 separate streams of data in both directions at the same time at rather little bandwidth cost. The point of the Move Engines isn't to do things the fastest way possible, but to do very important things fast enough while using very little resources to do so, saving the GPU from having to do it itself, thus leaving it's available power and resources for other things.
So, if the purpose of the move engines is to get work out of the way so the GPU doesn't have to bother using even more bandwidth speed to get the job done, then they are indeed leading to more efficient use of memory bandwidth. That's the primary purpose of DMAs on GCN architecture and all 4 Move Engines have a DMA engine. Even the Radeon 7970 only has 2 DMA engines. And all 4 move engines can take care of another important task for the GPU, tiling and untiling, and it still goes on to have other important uses beyond that, but you get the point.
Ryse is a launch title on Durango, so they need to be bed buddies.
Brad Grenz
Member
Epic is bed buddies with MS on the Gears franchise, but you don't see them kowtowing to MS like amateurs.
specialguy
Banned
well, this type of thing is why i think ms can win with a less powerful next gen console, but i dont really think sony could. Sony needs better hardware to even have a chance imo.
market clout, product vision, everything outside the hardware, tends to favor ms imo.
it does seem a lot of developers are waiting on ms to really talk about next gen, and that just feeds a perception.
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I don't know if MS will even touch on much of anything technical, particularly the areas where they are somehow at an easy marketing disadvantage. They will likely just show the spoils of their labor in action, with the system OS, games, features, services etc. Actual impressive software will easily drown out any noise about the console somehow not being extremely capable in the power department.
What will make Durango an impressive system is how the entire system works with the various customizations that have been done. No single component of Durango in isolation can tell you what the system is all about. The ESRAM, the Move Engines, the Display Planes, the physical GPU itself and how its overall architectural makeup balances out with the rest of the system, particularly the memory system. It all matters. Raw power is fantastic, and there is no way Durango will be lacking in the power department, but Microsoft went for their performance targets using a very carefully orchestrated design with no single aspect that really jumps out at you due to its perceived power. Whether or not their bets paid off is something we won't know till we get a look at some of the software, but there's a lot of stuff about Durango that you read about and think about, and if it actually works as well as Microsoft thinks it will, and developers get it and see the same things that Microsoft clearly saw when they designed it, then I can't wait to see the end results.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
If you could have used the console offline that would ruin the "always online" as now you don't need to be always online. Guess shouldn't get my hopes too high up but do hope it's exactly what I thought it would be.
Durango, in my opinion, is the better designed machine in terms of performance to cost. It can hit plenty of high notes with a very cheap build of materials. The beautiful thing is, MS has found a way to avoid expensive GDDR5 with a more complex but elegant solution. MS was thinking about profitability from the get-go, and if things turn dire, they can out price Sony significantly.
I was talking about both machines to a friend who works at MS a few months back (they have signed NDA's recently, despite him not being in the Xbox division).
The PS4 is a muscle car in every single way, fast, powerful, and based around sheer oomph.
Durango is akin to a hybrid sport's car. It will get the job done, but in a way that is far more efficient and cost effective.
At the end of the day however, I am still a consumer, and I will choose the most powerful platform for me, which is PS4. This doesn't change the fact that MS has very strong ideas on marketing, power, and how to position their next machine.
I thought someone from EA apparently acknowledged the PS4 and its version of BF4.
Interesting analogy considering hybrid sportcars, while promising on paper, have turned out to be complex, expensive and have seriously underwhelming performance. Standard hybrid cars on the other hand have great efficiency at low speeds and ridiculously bad performance once you start stressing them even a little bit - and are quit a bit more complex and expensive than standard cars
Apologies for OT comments, the analogy just sparked the car enthusiast in me
Its definitive something shady going on. MS might have the deal of the century, and at the same time they might just have a stop-gap. I really wish they'd flip the cards already.
Baconsammy
Banned
Crytek does nothing for me personally. I'm more interested in what Bethesda has got planned for next gen. I was surprised to hear one of their execs say they had just received dev units recently for the PS4. I would have expected that they'd have had them for awhile now. I need some next gen Fallout.
Fall Out 4 *fingers crossed*
SenjutsuSage
Banned
I'm glad I don't need to make a choice between the two. Getting both, including Wii-U. There's just too many games that I need that will be exclusive.