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VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]

slit

Member
Jun 3, 2009
17,040
0
750
Lets see if i can figure this out gaf

Wii - Michelle Tanner
360 - Stephanie Tanner
PS3 - DJ
WiiU - next door neighbor kimberly
720 - Danny Tanner
PS4 - Joey/ Uncle Jesse/ Jesse and the Rippers


amirite??????
The neighbors name was Kimmy....get it right.
 
Jul 24, 2008
409
0
0
Miami
Kind of disappointed in this update. VGLeaks really didn't tell us anything we didn't know.

I'd like to know more about the evolved dual shock controller. Exactly how is it evolved?
Yeah, me too. I figure hardware leaks would come as people can take pics of controller in a factory or in use. I have to imagine ds4 being close to finized design wise for developers to use
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,450
307
1,215
Midlands, UK
Just out of sheer curiousity (and my ignorance), in what percentage have they been proven right?

A lot of times this type of info looks like someone with a small piece of info took it and made reasonable assumptiins, guesstimations
Well none because neither Sony or Microsoft have announced specs yet. And to my knowledge, neither of the above posters have been insiders on anything else but could be wrong?
 

Appollowexx

Member
Oct 21, 2010
3,257
0
0
United Kingdom
Well I know very little compared to some of the tech experts on these boards, but all I'll say is these specs built around a closed architecture are pretty damn impressive.

Orbis will be a beast, at least a few years in, when developers really start to dig in and work their magic. Games from 1st party studios will definitely be interesting to see come E3.
 

Jack_AG

Banned
Feb 8, 2012
4,068
0
0
Chicago, IL
Can you imagine employees of Sony and Microsoft's hardware divisions reading these threads, all giddy with excitement for what they actually know. Dying to be able to slander each others hardware ... all while never been allowed to say a word!

Must be pretty painful. Especially if assumptions are incredibly wrong or underestimated.
I don't think painful. If I were 1st party I would be laughing my ass off at how wrong everyone is or smiling wryly at how right everyone is... then I'd take a big handful of popcorn and stuff my face with it.
 

SneakyStephan

Banned
Jan 23, 2011
18,402
0
0
I wonder what the odds are of these rumors actually being correct.

Or rather how those odds stack up against the odds that a bunch of websites are regurgitating 'info' off eachother in an endless loop in the pursuit of moar clicks.
 

Mrbob

Member
Jun 7, 2004
63,747
2
0
Well I know very little compared to some of the tech experts on these boards, but all I'll say is these specs built around a closed architecture are pretty damn impressive.

Orbis will be a beast, at least a few years in, when developers really start to dig in and work their magic. Games from 1st party studios will definitely be interesting to see come E3.
Yeah I'm a fairly heavy PC gamer and I'm not too worried about performance with these new systems. They are both targeting 1080P, which is more of a mid tier resolution now. Working on fixed hardware should allow these consoles to do some crazy things. Look at the PS3 this year with the latest God of War or The Last of Us. Or even Halo 4. Game sucked but it was a technical marvel for what could be done on 360. These consoles are being pushed harder than I ever thought possible. But they are getting tapped out so it is a good time for something new.
 
May 6, 2012
1,631
0
0
San Diego, CA
Based on what? Tarot cards?

Try a BoM of 200, maybe 250 with the controllers and the camera and move shit.
WTF? Is this a joke? The PS3 BOM is about that right now. The original BOM for PS3 had RSX ~$100 at launch according to iSuppli, yet the total BOM was still $800. I realize bluray will no longer be $220 alone but your still leaving a ton out. "additonal parts" alone will be about $80 of the BOM, maybe more cause we dont know what else is gonna be in this thing. The BOM for additional parts and materials was $79 for PS3 in 2009!

I expect the total to be somewhere in the range of $450, $500 with all packaging and cables. $400 launch price.

seriously the idiocy around here is frustrating!
 

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
Jun 8, 2004
28,320
0
0
VGLeaks looks like they simply did a rumor roundup of forum discussion the past week and posted it as "NEW LEAK LOL" today. That's what I'm seeing.

All I know is I think everyone will be happy with Orbango and what they bring to the table.
I've never see the 14+4 split being mentioned, or the triangle setup or ROP numbers.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
Durango has special sauce. I've heard nothing about Durango being any sort of a compute monster. Microsoft's machine is designed around efficiency, profit, and bang for the size. It is pretty obvious what is going on with Orbis. 4 CU's for compute is fucking amazeballs.

The current specs, on paper, show that Durango is weaker overall. However, I will agree with ProElite that it will have a slightly better edge in triangle/vertices drawing power.
Is the vertices thing because GCN trades lower triangle setup for better performance elsewhere? Or because of the special sauce/esram allowing the GPU to be more efficient?

I thought the latest GCN (supposedly used for orbis) had improved tessellation performance, and is more efficient overall, plus 2 more CUs should give advantage.
 

thuway

Member
Feb 25, 2008
10,994
0
0
So you are now of the opinion that Orbis is pretty much, plainly more powerful than the Durango?

Why did your opinion change?
I think systems will be comparable. It's not black and white. I do think games with heavy physics, animations, fast framerates, will favor Orbis though.
 

Pachterballs

Banned
Jun 2, 2010
5,357
0
0
Wouldn't It be funny if this leak if fake causes Ms to bump up their ram specs in Durango. :) or vice versa.

The fact that this is coming so early Pre launch.. Kind of amuses me. I wonder how on the money the leaks are.
 

Monas

Member
Mar 1, 2010
230
0
0
8 jaguar cores (tablet level CPU cores) vs High end intel CPU

7850 vs GTX680

Closed box efficiencies simply won't make up for these discrepancies.

Orbis would likely run a version that is cut back from 60fps to 30fps and 8xMSAA to 2xMSAA.
These are not the same as the ones AMD prepares for the tablets. They must have the same microarchitecture, that's why they are in the same family.

But the standard ones don't have 4mb cache and only support single channel ddr3 RAM albeit at 40bit wide.

That's why they are talking about Jaguar Cores and not CPUs.
You are thinking cpus.

The jaguar dual-cores are faster and more efficient than the Bobcat dual-cores, which where on par with the AMD FX 5200 x2, that was on par with the Intel E5200 C2D.

Now multiply that by 4.

Of course they are lighter than an i5 or even a q9550, but do we really need more w/h when everything has 10 times the B/W of a PCIx x16 (16 GB/s) and everything is CPGPU accelerated?
 

Sutanreyu

Member
Jan 11, 2008
669
14
885
So... Durango and Orbis both have the same CPU? Interesting... That alone would make multiplatform games a lot easier to program.

Orbis has a mildly better GPU... That's about it.

4GB of RAM is a massive bummer, though. That is going to be the biggest difference between the two consoles. Map sizes, AI, gameplay in general, etc. will suffer on Orbis. :/
 

Margalis

Banned
Aug 7, 2008
2,954
0
0
Well the mods have vouched for Thuway and Thuway has vouched for proelite.
If you have actual information you just say what that information is and that information turns out to be right. You don't say one thing, then read a rumor on Neogaf and say a different thing, then read another rumor and say a third thing, then none of them turn out correct.

If Thruway is a developer he clearly isn't one with access to relevant technical information.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
Agreed.

No, wait!

Durango: Atari ST
Orbis: Amiga

Wait... Wait!

Durango: IntelliVision
Orbis: ColecoVision

Okaydone. Phew.

And you call yourself the Amiga brotherhood? Hang your coat up in shame :p

Durango would be the Amiga, with the blitter and DMA engines. Orbis would be the ST with slightly better overall CPU power due to the CUs
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Nov 28, 2007
60,685
0
0
Noblesville, IN
www.novacrystallis.com
So... Durango and Orbis both have the same CPU? Interesting... That alone would make multiplatform games a lot easier to program.

Orbis has a mildly better GPU... That's about it.

4GB of RAM is a massive bummer, though. That is going to be the biggest difference between the two consoles. Map sizes, AI, gameplay in general, etc. will suffer on Orbis. :/
No.
 

ekim

Member
May 2, 2012
15,037
0
610
If you have actual information you just say what that information is and that information turns out to be right. You don't say one thing, then read a rumor on Neogaf and say a different thing, then read another rumor and say a third thing, then none of them turn out correct.

If Thruway is a developer he clearly isn't one with access to relevant technical information.
Sometimes it's hard to interpret information from sources the right way.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,450
307
1,215
Midlands, UK
These are not the same as the ones AMD prepares for the tablets. They must have the same microarchitecture, that's why they are in the same family.

But the standard ones don't have 4mb cache and only support single channel ddr3 RAM albeit at 40bit wide.

That's why they are talking about Jaguar Cores and not CPUs.
You are thinking cpus.



The jaguar dual-cores are faster and more efficient than the Bobcat dual-cores, which where on par with the AMD FX 5200 x2, that was on par with the Intel E5200 C2D.

Now multiply that by 4.

Of course they are lighter than an i5 or even a q9550, but do we really need more w/h when everything has 10 times the B/W of a PCIx x16 (16 GB/s) and everything is CPGPU accelerated?
To the bolded. Why is it that the PC doesn't seem to be bottlenecked by this? I have always wondered this.
 

Cuth

Member
Jan 6, 2005
730
0
0
The GC compensated by a much, much better architecture, and the best looking games on it matched whatever the Xbox came up with.
That confrontation was the best illustration of the uncertain outcome of opposing brute force to smart design.
This is not true at all.

Even if we assume we know everything about Durango (no special units or other parts helping the CPU or GPU), Sony would still need to upgrade Orbis to something like 12 GB GDDR5, 3 TFLOPS GPU to make the GC -> Xbox comparison somewhat accurate. And Orbis would also need a WAY better audio DSP compared to Durango. EDIT: and support for 200+ GB blu-ray discs.
 

grimshawish

Banned
Dec 30, 2011
9,164
0
0
4GB of RAM is a massive bummer, though. That is going to be the biggest difference between the two consoles. Map sizes, AI, gameplay in general, etc. will suffer on Orbis. :/
No. Unless things have changed Orbis's faster RAM puts it in a stronger position. Just MS needed a large OS constantly retrievable. So they've traded speed for size.
 

systemfehler

Member
Apr 21, 2009
2,078
0
0
Well I know very little compared to some of the tech experts on these boards, but all I'll say is these specs built around a closed architecture are pretty damn impressive.

Orbis will be a beast, at least a few years in, when developers really start to dig in and work their magic. Games from 1st party studios will definitely be interesting to see come E3.
I highly doubt that. There will be a leap but after a few years the only thing saving both PS4 and 720 from being sent to an early graphical grave is that they are the bigger market. The PS4 is basicly a PC there is nothing special that can't be used within the first year. The PS3 situation was different - developer tools were not quite ready and the Cell architecture was new and complicated.

PS4 development should be easy and of course there will be more "juice" compared to a PC with the same components but that is because developers put in the extra effort for xx million consoles. Something they don't on the PC because there are too many different configurations. All this talk about closed box and less overhead can't make up for components that not even yesterday would have an edge over current PC technology.

Yes the games will look stunning but not because of some miracle hardware but because Naughty Dog know what they are doing, I wonder what they could do with an Alienware x51...

Without talking price, controller, games what is then?
 

SneakyStephan

Banned
Jan 23, 2011
18,402
0
0
Wouldn't It be funny if this leak if fake causes Ms to bump up their ram specs in Durango. :) or vice versa.

The fact that this is coming so early Pre launch.. Kind of amuses me. I wonder how on the money the leaks are.
Or they lowballed things in the leaks then see the communities' acceptance and decide they don't need a 2.5TF gpu or fast ram afterall :p (I'm being silly don't latch on to this)
 

xxracerxx

Don't worry, I'll vouch for them.
Feb 24, 2009
45,606
3
0
Portland, OR
So... Durango and Orbis both have the same CPU? Interesting... That alone would make multiplatform games a lot easier to program.

Orbis has a mildly better GPU... That's about it.

4GB of RAM is a massive bummer, though. That is going to be the biggest difference between the two consoles. Map sizes, AI, gameplay in general, etc. will suffer on Orbis. :/
Read the thread on why the 4GB of RAM is not an issue.
 

Baconsammy

Banned
Aug 9, 2011
17,535
0
0
Seattle Washington
I think systems will be comparable. It's not black and white. I do think games with heavy physics, animations, fast framerates, will favor Orbis though.
So all the good games then.

Looks like I'm going with Microsoft and Sony again this gen. Have to do that anyway for the ability to pick and choose the best exclusives and the best version of multiplats.
 

THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
4,450
307
1,215
Midlands, UK
If you have actual information you just say what that information is and that information turns out to be right. You don't say one thing, then read a rumor on Neogaf and say a different thing, then read another rumor and say a third thing, then none of them turn out correct.

If Thruway is a developer he clearly isn't one with access to relevant technical information.
To be fair to Thuway, he has been up front about everything. Check his post history.
 

i-Lo

Member
Dec 23, 2008
14,759
0
0
Canada
How does GCN look for tessellation?

People's incapacity to read or the lack of desire to understand what is what and come make blank statements based on preconceived notion is becoming astoundingly annoying. This is what I worry about sometimes. Members here are oblivious to certain facts and yet have no issues making their ignorance known and so what about the people who are not part of the forum, who are swayed by simple numbers, "8>4" especially if MS starts a propaganda based upon it? Do you really believe that most would even bother understanding the difference in the RAM type or its ramification?

I am going to break away from my character to say this: People can be gigantic fucking morons both here and out there. I truly hope Sony is prepared to clarify what is what through actual product.
 

Appollowexx

Member
Oct 21, 2010
3,257
0
0
United Kingdom
I highly doubt that. There will be a leap but after a few years the only thing saving both PS4 and 720 from being sent to an early graphical grave is that they are the bigger market. The PS4 is basicly a PC there is nothing special that can't be used within the first year. The PS3 situation was different - developer tools were not quite ready and the Cell architecture was new and complicated.

PS4 development should be easy and of course there will be more "juice" compared to a PC with the same components but that is because developers put in the extra effort for xx million consoles. Something they don't on the PC because there are too many different configurations. All this talk about closed box and less overhead can't make up for components that not even yesterday would have an edge over current PC technology.

Yes the games will look stunning but not because of some miracle hardware but because Naughty Dog know what they are doing, I wonder what they could do with an Alienware x51...
That is exactly what I said. Because developers are coding for specific specs they can get more out of a 'closed coding environment' which isn't possible on PC. PC tech will always be ahead of console tech, but you'll still see games appearing next gen like Star Wars 1313 that require the latest PC parts to run at the same fidelity as you get on a next gen console.
 

grimshawish

Banned
Dec 30, 2011
9,164
0
0
But wont developers be able to store more in the Durango RAM as opposed to Orbis?
We don't quite know how much of the RAM will be left to the OS. But from what I understand unless the Durango OS is far smaller than rumoured the extra RAM just won't do too much.

In certain cases it may be better but this will not be throughout the entire game. Just instance. Overall the Orbis appears the better option and possibly gives devs a bit more freedom and space.


Any issues with the smaller RAM seem like instances that can easily be dealt with in development and really should be no issue.

But am no dev nor no expert. Just going with how am understanding things.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
I highly doubt that. There will be a leap but after a few years the only thing saving both PS4 and 720 from being sent to an early graphical grave is that they are the bigger market. The PS4 is basicly a PC there is nothing special that can't be used within the first year. The PS3 situation was different - developer tools were not quite ready and the Cell architecture was new and complicated.

PS4 development should be easy and of course there will be more "juice" compared to a PC with the same components but that is because developers put in the extra effort for xx million consoles. Something they don't on the PC because there are too many different configurations. All this talk about closed box and less overhead can't make up for components that not even yesterday would have an edge over current PC technology.

Yes the games will look stunning but not because of some miracle hardware but because Naughty Dog know what they are doing, I wonder what they could do with an Alienware x51...



Without talking price, controller, games what is then?

I generally agree with you, but only due to sheer brute force with newer PCs. Don't just think of the simple closed box, but if this is really a SoC design they pull get big advantages with latency when the CPU hands stuff off to the GPU or CUs.
 

Ashes

Member
Dec 11, 2008
23,382
0
855
Greater London
These are not the same as the ones AMD prepares for the tablets. They must have the same microarchitecture, that's why they are in the same family.

But the standard ones don't have 4mb cache and only support single channel ddr3 RAM albeit at 40bit wide.

That's why they are talking about Jaguar Cores and not CPUs.
You are thinking cpus.



The jaguar dual-cores are faster and more efficient than the Bobcat dual-cores, which where on par with the AMD FX 5200 x2, that was on par with the Intel E5200 C2D.

Now multiply that by 4.

Of course they are lighter than an i5 or even a q9550, but do we really need more w/h when everything has 10 times the B/W of a PCIx x16 (16 GB/s) and everything is CPGPU accelerated?
Around 4400 on this benchmark. I'd say roughly A10 5700k and A10 5800k. Note these are actual pc benchmarks, not theoretical peaks, where they are all around 100gflops even i7s.. Useless to compare peak flops.
Benchmarks> flops.
 

Verendus

Banned
Nov 16, 2010
8,579
0
0
Games
It's a new IP for definite. I don't want to say more than that because we're only a few months away and it'll be much more impressive to have a full reveal. It'd be unfair to GG, and this is going to be a really huge event for them. Plus I know very little, and it's no point putting it out there. It' be more detrimental than anything else. I can tell you it's not like Killzone.

I can spill the following comfortably though since I think this developer is a bit of a joke, and I think people are beginning to suspect this anyway. Versus XIII will have another unveiling later this year regarding development for the next generation. It won't have the "Versus XIII" part in the title. It will definitely release in 2014. You can have my account deleted if this information turns out to be inaccurate. News is fresh on this and I'm really confident about it. FF15 and FF16 are underway, both next generation projects. There's a chance FF15, in particular, may be an exclusive release. Kind of. And with that, I'm off to sleep.
 

spwolf

Member
Feb 15, 2007
16,283
0
0
So it is most definitely exists to function during streaming assets during gameplay.
it can be used to decode things on the fly from the BD or HDD. I am not sure how good can you compress textures with deflate (zlib is an library, codec is deflate, but i guess it is easier to say zlib than deflate or something).

Basically deflate is used in PNG and you can compare PNG with BMP to see the difference between compress and uncompressed. It can be large.

So now, speed of BD is not a problem, together with all these other enhancements such as increase of RAM, increase of BD reading speed, and hardware decoder for deflate.

Essentially, it could speed things up by 2x or so, easily. Also speed access times.
Also it could enable "no installs" or superfast installs. Plus it frees up CPU from doing all this.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,901
0
0
Windsor, UK
it can be used to decode things on the fly from the BD or HDD. I am not sure how good can you compress textures with deflate (zlib is an library, codec is deflate, but i guess it is easier to say zlib than deflate or something).

Basically deflate is used in PNG and you can compare PNG with BMP to see the difference between compress and uncompressed. It can be large.

So now, speed of BD is not a problem, together with all these other enhancements such as increase of RAM, increase of BD reading speed, and hardware decoder for deflate.

Essentially, it could speed things up by 2x or so, easily. Also speed access times.
Also it could enable "no installs" or superfast installs. Plus it frees up CPU from doing all this.
Don't GPUs still support compressed textures anyway?
 

i-Lo

Member
Dec 23, 2008
14,759
0
0
Canada
It's a new IP for definite. I don't want to say more than that because we're only a few months away and it'll be much more impressive to have a full reveal. It'd be unfair to GG, and this is going to be a really huge event for them. Plus I know very little, and it's no point putting it out there. It' be more detrimental than anything else. I can tell you it's not like Killzone.

I can spill the following comfortably though since I think this developer is a bit of a joke, and I think people are beginning to suspect this anyway. Versus XIII will have another unveiling later this year regarding development for the next generation. It won't have the "Versus XIII" part in the title. It will definitely release in 2014. You can have my account deleted if this information turns out to be inaccurate. News is fresh on this and I'm really confident about it. FF15 and FF16 are underway, both next generation projects. There's a chance FF15, in particular, may be an exclusive release. Kind of. And with that, I'm off to sleep.
Guessed as much. And pertaining to GG's new game, I concur with your decision to keep it veiled till they announce it. It shall make for a more grand opening. Thank you.

Also, do you know if SSM and Sucker Punch are busy with new IPs?

it can be used to decode things on the fly from the BD or HDD. I am not sure how good can you compress textures with deflate (zlib is an library, codec is deflate, but i guess it is easier to say zlib than deflate or something).

Basically deflate is used in PNG and you can compare PNG with BMP to see the difference between compress and uncompressed. It can be large.

So now, speed of BD is not a problem, together with all these other enhancements such as increase of RAM, increase of BD reading speed, and hardware decoder for deflate.

Essentially, it could speed things up by 2x or so, easily. Also speed access times.
Also it could enable "no installs" or superfast installs. Plus it frees up CPU from doing all this.
Aye, good sir. Thank you.