Support NeoGAF

[Bo_Hazem]

I did wath the DF vid twice, and they only mention VRR at the end of the vid, while showing it on XSX, when talking about 'atleast with XSX you can use VRR to help' etc.
In fact i may watch the vid again because i'm pretty sure one of them even says both version are using vsync.

Didn't say XSX doesn't have V-Sync support, it may have, but they were using VRR which gives an advantage on FPS vs V-Sync, and you know that. PS5 will get the VRR patch later, and you'll see the performance then telling another story.

 

[Stuart360]

Agreed, I’m expecting the Series X to outperform the PS5 by a considerable margin there just because of BC

Actually thats not definate at all, and i wouldnt be surprised if the PS5 version is better. I say that because with covid, and the obvious time constarint they have been under, the 'next gen version are probably just the base versions running at a higher resolution, and maybe famerate. So if the base PS4 version of Cyberpunk is better than the base XB1 version, there is eveny chance the PS5 version will be better.

 

[Flintty]

Oh no, I guess it’s time to reevaluate my life choices...

Lol just look at you all

Try reading this thread again without feeling cringe and whilst trying to keep a straight face, I dare you

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Agreed, I’m expecting the Series X to outperform the PS5 by a considerable margin there just because of BC

Unless it gets a patch on Series X for higher frame rates. PS5 might run it better since the Pro version will likely run at a lower resolution. Talking about FPS consistency.

Anyways, both will be getting next gen versions/modes next year anyways. Though, I hope they at least have a mode to unlock frame cap on PS5 at launch, so we can at least run the Pro version at 60fps.

 

[Stuart360]

Didn't say XSX doesn't have V-Sync support, it may have, but they were using VRR which gives an advantage on FPS vs V-Sync, and you know that. PS5 will get the VRR patch later, and you'll see the performance then telling another story.

Yes at the end of the video, where they showed the game using VRR on XSX.
Look i'm going to watch the vid right now lol.

 

[Leyasu]

Didn't say XSX doesn't have V-Sync support, it may have, but they were using VRR which gives an advantage on FPS vs V-Sync, and you know that. PS5 will get the VRR patch later, and you'll see the performance then telling another story.

Without doubt a great debut for the PS5.


I have read a few of your triumphant posts in this thread. Do you not think that it is a bit premature to declare a victory though?

 

[Md Ray]

So on PS5:

-Best games in the industry (exclusives).
-Best version of 3rd party games on consoles, both resolution and framerates.
-Best controller.
-Best audio.
-Only console to offer VR.
-Free to play games are free.
-PS Now doesn't require PS Plus to play MP.
-600+ more games on PS Now vs GamePass.

Pretty easy win.

 

[INC]

This is gonna be a long gen of dick waving of 1 second faster load times and 3fps difference

In the real world, they're both basically the same (so far)

I will say tho, I really like the look of the DS5, if the haptics work the same on pc, I'll 100% buy a ds5

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Without doubt a great debut for the PS5.


I have read a few of your triumphant posts in this thread. Do you not think that it is a bit premature to declare a victory though?

Nah, when games go heavy with their assets the delta will be bigger when RAM's require more than 10GB on XSX while PS5's has the comfort of getting Oodle Textures implemented and games compressed/decompressed with Oodle Kraken that is 297% faster than ZLIB and even more with a dedicated Kraken decompressor. So hitting 17-22GB/s is literally the speed of single channel DDR4 RAM, making that whole 825GB a secondary RAM. That's why the UE5 demo had only a 0.7GB RAM pool for streaming Hollywood-level, uncompressed 8K assets with ease (no Oodle Textures compression as well).

 

[FunkMiller]

Damn you got me, you are completely right.

I'm gonna take the hit, but I'm scared...what if PS5 > XSX??? I don't wanna live in that world..

Xbox is my life bro. Like, I don't need a gf or a job, all I need is XSX but if you're telling me PS5 better how can LIVE

Good for you, sport

Acceptance is always best!

 

[SegaSnatcher]

This is gonna be a long gen of dick waving of 1 second faster load times and 3fps difference

In the real world, they're both basically the same (so far)

I will say tho, I really like the look of the DS5, if the haptics work the same on pc, I'll 100% buy a ds5

The thing is even with parity that won't be good enough for XBOX fans because in their minds Xbox should objectively always outperform the PS5 by a decent margin.

 

[FunkMiller]

This is gonna be a long gen of dick waving of 1 second faster load times and 3fps difference

In the real world, they're both basically the same (so far)

I will say tho, I really like the look of the DS5, if the haptics work the same on pc, I'll 100% buy a ds5

They most certainly are basically the same.

What a crying shame one group of fans have just spent the last year claiming otherwise.

If Xbox fans had adopted a wait and see approach, this would have all been a lot more simple and less divisive.

 

[Calverz]

My biggest take away is how well the series s version runs. For a £250 console. Wow. Casuals gonna lap it up

 

[INC]

They most certainly are basically the same.

What a crying shame one group of fans have just spent the last year claiming otherwise.

If Xbox fans had adopted a wait and see approach, this would have all been a lot more simple and less divisive.

Surprised they've not asked for a recount on the FLOPS

 

[Neko Mimi Mode]

The thing is even with parity that won't be good enough for XBOX fans because in their minds Xbox should objectively always outperform the PS5 by a decent margin.

Bit harsh that, many of us have been saying for months there will be parity between the consoles.

There's a few zealots on every side, but I think the majority of us are happy both companies have put out such strong products that will allow for some great games down the line.

My biggest take away is how well the series s version runs. For a £250 console. Wow. Casuals gonna lap it up

1440p/60 is impressive, even without RT. I think I can understand why MS expect it to be the bigger seller in the long run

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Bit harsh that, many of us have been saying for months there will be parity between the consoles.

There's a few zealots on every side, but I think the majority of us are happy both companies have put out such strong products that will allow for some great games down the line.

Same, I am not the least bit surprised the consoles are within parity of each other and tried to inform people not to expect huge gap in performance. I just wished people weren't in so much denial about the truth. People should be happy both consoles are kicking ass and 60fps are extremely common now.

I've just had to deal with so many zealots that its easy to forget there are level headed fans as well.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

This would be the biggest gap in the video from VGtechs:

Around 21.2% advantage for PS5. Those 2.23GHz clocks are paying off.

Someone count the resolution here. It's like for like so assuming settings are the same it should be a sufficient comparison for everyone.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Someone count the resolution here. It's like for like so assuming settings are the same it should be a sufficient comparison for everyone.

The frame is so dirty even at 4K here with PNG file I made. Until we get a new app that is used to measure resolution on the fly we can't really do it easily.

 

[FunkMiller]

My biggest take away is how well the series s version runs. For a £250 console. Wow. Casuals gonna lap it up

This is yet another meme that needs to be killed off before the sales figures come in, and there’s another rude awakening.

Two things: you do know what console all the casuals bought last Gen, right? And you do know what the term ‘brand loyalty’ means, right?

For god’s sakes, Xbox fans, don’t start down a road of thinking the XSS is going to sell all that well... anywhere near the Ps5’s figures. You’re only setting yourselves up for more disappointment.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

The frame is so dirty even at 4K here with PNG file I made. Until we get a new app that is used to measure resolution on the fly we can't really do it easily.

Cool. It's the only scene with a nice long stretch of fps gap I noticed so was hoping. Oh well.

 

[Leyasu]

Nah, when games go heavy with their assets the delta will be bigger when RAM's require more than 10GB on XSX while PS5's has the comfort of getting Oodle Textures implemented and games compressed/decompressed with Oodle Kraken that is 297% faster than ZLIB and even more with a dedicated Kraken decompressor. So hitting 17-22GB/s is literally the speed of single channel DDR4 RAM, making that whole 825GB a secondary RAM. That's why the UE5 demo had only a 0.7GB RAM pool for streaming Hollywood-level, uncompressed 8K assets with ease (no Oodle Textures compression as well).

Sounds amazing

But after everyone in this very thread saying that we shouldn’t parrot what Microsoft has promised. I am surprised to see you do the same for Sony.

Let’s just wait and see ey...

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is yet another meme that needs to be killed off before the sales figures come in, and there’s another rude awakening.

Two things: you do know what console all the casuals bought last Gen, right? And you do know what the term ‘brand loyalty’ means, right?

For god’s sakes, Xbox fans, don’t start down a road of thinking the XSS is going to sell all that well... anywhere near the Ps5’s figures. You’re only setting yourselves up for more disappointment.

Imagine not being able to pay $100 more and get the massively better deal. Also imagine as a casual getting XSS to be forced to pay for Xbox Gold to play fortnite and other free to play games, yet your friends are playing for free on PS4/PS5. Heck, PS4 would still be the best deal for casuals who play free to play games like that COD game, Apex, Fortnite, Wareframe and more with no need for PS Plus.

 

[Fitzchiv]

Nope, they are not combative, my guess is they all are crying in their rooms shaking too much to type (or they are rather careful).

Phil should release a trailer for herllblade ii or Halo infinite.

Genuine question, do people actually enjoy typing and reading shite like this?

 

[Md Ray]

Only small drops on both, good news. VRR on Xbox sorts that out so once again due to that feature the Xbox will have the best playing version with no tearing. Microsoft obviously knew VRR would be a killer feature from day one.

See, this is just sad.

If I were you, I would demand Sony to show power advantage if they'd bragged about "The Most Powerful Console in the World". Instead, you continuously choose to defend MS like this.

Where's my resolution advantage? None.
Where's my graphics advantage? None.

Ok, where's my fps advantage? At least this should be better on the "most powerful console", right?

Nope. It's actually better on the "weaker" console.

Open your eyes.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Imagine not being able to pay $100 more and get the massively better deal. Also imagine as a casual getting XSS to be forced to pay for Xbox Gold to play fortnite and other free to play games, yet your friends are playing for free on PS4/PS5. Heck, PS4 would still be the best deal for casuals who play free to play games like that COD game, Apex, Fortnite, Wareframe and more with no need for PS Plus.

Especially if you only care about multiplats the only reason to get a Series S over the PS5 is Game Pass. but I'd rather pay the extra $100 for a way better experience if I wanted a discless console.

 

[Stuart360]

Didn't say XSX doesn't have V-Sync support, it may have, but they were using VRR which gives an advantage on FPS vs V-Sync, and you know that. PS5 will get the VRR patch later, and you'll see the performance then telling another story.

Actually i was wrong about the bit at the end of the vid, that had nothing to do with VRR. The ending is how you can lock the refresh rate to 60fps on XSX, for a smooth framertae, but you cant on PS5. I didnt realize that and surprised (well not really) that it hasnt been talked about more on here.

Anyway they are talking about the differences in framerate on the 120hz mode, and why it could be happening, and then John says at 7:10 - 'Yeah and i can also report i tested this with VRR on the Xbox version which is supported of course, and unfortunately the jump in famerate is so severe, even VRR cant save this.'



So yes this comparison was done without VRR, but John did test the game with VRR on his own time.
They even say at the start of the vid that both versions are using the exact same settings, on a level playing field.
Also the XSX version is very far ahead a lot of the time in the 60fps modes, just as much if not more than COD in the 120fps mode. I had kind of forgot lol.

 

[Radical_3d]

This is gonna be a long gen of dick waving of 1 second faster load times and 3fps difference

I agree. To me the biggest factor now onwards is: who is going to change the boring trend of open world designs and cinematic-based, both with poor gameplay based games?

 

[Leyasu]

Genuine question, do people actually enjoy typing and reading shite like this?

It is shocking how far the gaming side has fallen.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Sounds amazing

But after everyone in this very thread saying that we shouldn’t parrot what Microsoft has promised. I am surprised to see you do the same for Sony.

Let’s just wait and see ey...

Haven't you seen yet? Here a small true, real-time example from an unoptimized gameplay demo according to Epic Games (done in like 7 months):




More like a stress test, and that's not the full potential. Many expected XSX to at least win now, with games usually utilizing single threaded CPU's (XSX 3.8GHz) before going for multi-threaded.

Gonna enjoy the salt for a change after enjoying sweet PS5 games.

 

[Flintty]

The thing is even with parity that won't be good enough for XBOX fans because in their minds Xbox should objectively always outperform the PS5 by a decent margin.

I don’t think that’s strictly true. You’re talking about the vocal minority here - most of us just wanted a console that wasn’t gimped from day one and we got just that. Wander into the Xbox OT and you’ll see us all just chilling, enjoying our new toy.

 

[Stuart360]

This is yet another meme that needs to be killed off before the sales figures come in, and there’s another rude awakening.

Two things: you do know what console all the casuals bought last Gen, right? And you do know what the term ‘brand loyalty’ means, right?

For god’s sakes, Xbox fans, don’t start down a road of thinking the XSS is going to sell all that well... anywhere near the Ps5’s figures. You’re only setting yourselves up for more disappointment.

Jesus the poor guy can t even say he finds it impressive how well the XSS version runs the game, without being jumped on with console warz nonsene.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

I am kinda curious if GDK will allow porting games from PC to Xbox easier. Like I got the idea that it will simplify the development for PC and Xbox. But it maybe it will allow more games from PC to come to Xbox.

 

[Leyasu]

Haven't you seen yet? Here a small true, real-time example from an unoptimized gameplay demo according to Epic Games (done in like 7 months):




More like a stress test, and that's not the full potential. Many expected XSX to at least win now, with games usually utilizing single threaded CPU's (XSX 3.8GHz) before going for multi-threaded.

Gonna enjoy the salt for a change after enjoying sweet PS5 games.

I saw it. Again wait and see would be the most prudent thing to do here.

Did you forget that you wasn’t in the YouTube comments section this morning?

 

[Stuart360]

Haven't you seen yet? Here a small true, real-time example from an unoptimized gameplay demo according to Epic Games (done in like 7 months):




More like a stress test, and that's not the full potential. Many expected XSX to at least win now, with games usually utilizing single threaded CPU's (XSX 3.8GHz) before going for multi-threaded.

Gonna enjoy the salt for a change after enjoying sweet PS5 games.

7 months to make a 9min demo. Ths is why its ridiculous, and a little unfar, to expect games to come close to it next gen. Maybe Naughty Dog, or one of Sony's first party's will come close, but i think thats beyond 3rd parties.

 

[molly14]

why so mad, its only a piece of plastic.


not as sad as ubisoft


y'all stroking your dongs bc one console has like average 3fps more than the other? This should be the new definition of console warrior in Duden

No your missing the point.The point is for months and months we were told by certain posters that the xbox would be way ahead of the ps5 in these comparisons,that the difference in the TF number could never be made up,and that Mark Cerny boosted the clocks at the last minute to try and catch up with the xbox

The reality appears to be that both are very similar in performance.

 

[Riky]

See, this is just sad.

If I were you, I would demand Sony to show power advantage if they'd bragged about "The Most Powerful Console in the World". Instead, you continuously choose to defend MS like this.

Where's my resolution advantage? None.
Where's my graphics advantage? None.

Ok, where's my fps advantage? At least this should be better on the "most powerful console", right?

Nope. It's actually better on the "weaker" console.

Open your eyes.

DMC5 was better on Xbox on 3 out of four modes, open your eyes. The one mode it wasn't looked bugged but anyway with VRR it would still make it the best version, if you're running at 120hz you've probably got VRR.
Black Ops runs better at 60hz on Xbox, again at 120hz you would have VRR so again it would be better on the few dips it has.
The tearing on Valhalla is the only one where I would say PS5 runs better, but again not for me as VRR makes it smoother on Xbox.

It's a feature Xbox has and PS5 hasn't at this moment and it's sad to deny it at this point.

 

[Stilton Disco]

7 months to make a 9min demo. Ths is why its ridiculous, and a little unfar, to expect games to come close to it next gen. Maybe Naughty Dog, or one of Sony's first party's will come close, but i think thats beyond 3rd parties.

You're assuming it would take another 7 months to make a further 9 minutes.

They made this from scratch, and would not need to repeat most of that work for every other part of a hypothetical full game.

Infact given that they're the ones selling Unreal Engine to developers, that 7 months of work will only make achieving these kind of results easier for anyone using their engine.

 

[Md Ray]

I liked this one ...


Has he been right about anything yet?

How can he hold all those “Ls”???

That "18%" (minimum btw) translates to a PlayStation 4 and a half of GPU compute on top of the PlayStation 5's GPU. That's something just throwing out percentages doesn't really convey very well. Another thing being grossly overlooked is the uptick in RT hardware, there's 44% more of it on the Series X die and it also has a considerably wider bus. It will undoubtedly have higher pixel and texel fill rates, more TMU's, and a higher ROP count.

It's not just teraflops, Microsoft's GPU goes places which the PlayStation 5's cannot follow.

"18% translates to PS4 and a half of the GPU compute on top of PS5 GPU"

"percentages doesn't really convey very well".

 

[jonnyp]

You're assuming it would take another 7 months to make a further 9 minutes.

They made this from scratch, and would not need to repeat most of that work for every other part of a hypothetical full game.

Infact given that they're the ones selling Unreal Engine to developers, that 7 months of work will only make achieving these kind of results easier for anyone using their engine.

Exactly, and it was a small team too.

 

[Stuart360]

No your missing the point.The point is for months and months we were told by certain posters that the xbox would be way ahead of the ps5 in these comparisons,that the difference in the TF number could never be made up,and that Mark Cerny boosted the clocks at the last minute to try and catch up with the xbox

The reality appears to be that both are very similar in performance.

Who?, which posters?. The only Xbox fan i have seen say anything like that over the last few months was DynamiteKid. If i have mssed people then i'm mistaken.
Fanboys on Twitter dont count, and dont speak for a whole fanbase.
Its like that Valhalla thread about PS5 being upscaled, and then we got the WatachDogs thread later saying the same thing about XSX, and that thread was full of Sony fanboys saying shit like 'lol where are the Xbox fanboys now lolz!', 'All the people talking shit in the Valhall thread, they have dissapeared', 'talk about egg on your face, all the people in the Valhalla thread lol', etc. I went in the Valhalla thread after that, and i didnt see one 'Xbot' taking the piss out of PS5, not one.

Certain people see Xbot boogeymen in their soup.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

7 months to make a 9min demo. Ths is why its ridiculous, and a little unfar, to expect games to come close to it next gen. Maybe Naughty Dog, or one of Sony's first party's will come close, but i think thats beyond 3rd parties.

I don't think many were working on it to be fair. First party gonna exceed the overall experience even with only going 4K 25% compressed like Quixel's Rebirth trailer than anyone of us would kill to have such graphics in a game right now! (Rebirth was using LOD's, UE4)





Going to a more efficient method like Sony Atom View polygon/atom streaming on the fly or UE5 Nanite gonna change how games will look and how smaller will be at the same time. UE5 demo was at least 430% higher in polygon density compared to this. Sony Atom View already have this tech since 2017 before Epic Games, probably Epic Games licensed it with their overhauling UE5 to take full advantage of PS5's perks.

Epic Games had to rewrite parts of Unreal Engine to keep up with the PS5's SSD

The SSD inside every PS5 is going to be transformative for game development, and the maker of Unreal Engine has seen it firsthand.

www.vg247.com

I saw it. Again wait and see would be the most prudent thing to do here.

Did you forget that you wasn’t in the YouTube comments section this morning?

Are you stalking me?

 

[FunkMiller]

Jesus the poor guy can t even say he finds it impressive how well the XSS version runs the game, without being jumped on with console warz nonsene.

That wasn’t the part I was addressing, as you well know. But well done for cherrypicking.

I was countering his statement that the ‘casuals will lap the XSS up’. Which I believe is in error given the way the market stands.

I wasn’t commenting on how well the console runs the game. It’s nice that it runs it well.

 

[Stuart360]

You're assuming it would take another 7 months to make a further 9 minutes.

They made this from scratch, and would not need to repeat most of that work for every other part of a hypothetical full game.

Infact given that they're the ones selling Unreal Engine to developers, that 7 months of work will only make achieving these kind of results easier for anyone using their engine.

Well obviously its not going to take 7 months for every 9mins of gameplay, but at the same time its obvious that say a 15-20 hour game, at this level, is probably way beyond whats possible.

 

[Yoboman]

Can't wait to play the best versions of AC Valhalla and COD when I'm done with Demons Souls and Miles Morales

 

[Leyasu]

IlAre you stalking me?

stalking you? No, just that your “high quality” posts just jump off of the page.

I am amazed that your posts fly under the mods radar.

 

[Stuart360]

That wasn’t the part I was addressing, as you well know. But well done for cherrypicking.

I was countering his statement that the ‘casuals will lap the XSS up’. Which I believe is in error given the way the market stands.

I wasn’t commenting on how well the console runs the game. It’s nice that it runs it well.

Well what he says will probably right, in terms of sales with casuals, parents for their kids, etc. The question is how many do you need to sell for it to be classed as 'lapped up'.
I think XSX will sell better than XSS through most of the year, but i think XSS will sell gangbusters at Christmas time (not this year obviously, before someone tries to twist what i said).

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Actually i was wrong about the bit at the end of the vid, that had nothing to do with VRR. The ending is how you can lock the refresh rate to 60fps on XSX, for a smooth framertae, but you cant on PS5. I didnt realize that and surprised (well not really) that it hasnt been talked about more on here.

Anyway they are talking about the differences in framerate on the 120hz mode, and why it could be happening, and then John says at 7:10 - 'Yeah and i can also report i tested this with VRR on the Xbox version which is supported of course, and unfortunately the jump in famerate is so severe, even VRR cant save this.'



So yes this comparison was done without VRR, but John did test the game with VRR on his own time.
They even say at the start of the vid that both versions are using the exact same settings, on a level playing field.
Also the XSX version is very far ahead a lot of the time in the 60fps modes, just as much if not more than COD in the 120fps mode. I had kind of forgot lol.

Both consoles aren't far away from each on 60fps modes on both games, but 120fps is a clear advantage so far for PS5. Is it huge? No, but it's good for banter.

What did you expect me to do? Play games? I didn't fucking get my PS5 yet! Endure me for 4 more days.

 

[Aceofspades]

Who?, which posters?.

Pay a visit to "Xbox is Power king" thread then pick and choose from the dozen there.

 

[Stuart360]

Both consoles aren't far away from each on 60fps modes on both games, but 120fps is a clear advantage so far for PS5. Is it huge? No, but it's good for banter.

What did you expect me to do? Play games? I didn't fucking get my PS5 yet! Endure me for 4 more days.

You have a monster PC Bo, mail it to me if you arent going to game on it...

 

[Md Ray]

DMC5 was better on Xbox on 3 out of four modes, open your eyes. The one mode it wasn't looked bugged but anyway with VRR it would still make it the best version, if you're running at 120hz you've probably got VRR.
Black Ops runs better at 60hz on Xbox, again at 120hz you would have VRR so again it would be better on the few dips it has.
The tearing on Valhalla is the only one where I would say PS5 runs better, but again not for me as VRR makes it smoother on Xbox.

It's a feature Xbox has and PS5 hasn't at this moment and it's sad to deny it at this point.

Shouldn't you be demanding for better perf as it's touted as the "Most Power Console in the World" though? Why settle for VRR as the solution for poor perf? VRR is great and I demand Sony enable this ASAP as it's listed in their specs sheet.

Also, it's just sad when you have to grasp at straws and proclaim 0.01fps as any meaningful difference, really.