From what I understand this is a PS4-only issue, although I MAY be wrong on this.
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VVV coverage of near final PS4 version of ProjectCARS
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
From what I understand this is a PS4-only issue, although I MAY be wrong on this.
VVV Mars VG
Member
No, but that features other issues we'll discuss after the embargo.
It depends what people want to call it, some call it ghosting, I call it blur, so when an image moves quickly across the screen it blurs. But you can see in my recent 60fps videos how it looks. As I say, its not going to be for everyone and its a shame that effect is in place, having said that its a lot less now than when I filmed my early previews and as mentioned, it hasn't affected my personal experience of the gameplay.
ruh-roh. nothing too major i hope...
OTHER issues? Should I be pre-ordering this? (rhetorical question)
Bizarre that it would be apparent in one, and not the other, especially as it's been tooted as a feature.........
Looking forward to hearing about the issues once the embargo is lifted.
Different rendering techniques between the 2 consoles.
justsomeguy
Member
Yeah, there's a decent summary in the main pcars thread:
Lots more in there from the dev team if you go back a few pages. I don't think it's a big deal - they're looking at it and doubtless they'll fix it if it's not working as intended.
Yeah, I understand that, I am just sure I read somewhere that this ghosting, blurring, whatever you call it, was a feature, surely it could have been replicated on the XBO if the above was true?
stargateheaven
Member
finally a game that let's you turn off the hands and wheel.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It is a different AA method, not motion blur.
It's a negative side effect of Temporal Anti-Aliasing, which normally is an effective way of doing AA that does have an extra cost (which could be the reason why XBO doesn't have it). Basically the PS4 version will have less aliasing and better IQ, but the side-effect of it is that there is some ghosting. Unreal Engine 4 and Halo: Reach suffer a bit from the same problem, but it's a negative side of something positive so it's grey area. I haven't seen the PS4 version myself, but none of my friends who tried the game out at a local Gamestop noticed it, but it's definitely there.
Right, got you.
So to summarize, it's been used on the PS4 version to increase the IQ, and wasn't used on the XBO due to the overhead it gives.
Really interested to see the differences in IQ between both versions from the final retail code.
I'm sure I read somewhere today that a PS4 patch is incoming to let you adjust the effect, or disable it completely. I might have even read it on GAF.
Or I imagined the whole thing.
Help me out here somebody..?
Edit: HERE
Got a source for that, _machine..?
That would be cool.
Fortinbras
Member
You read it on GAF. They didn't confirm a patch however.
No patch is confirmed and it's according to customer feedback, but that is direct quote from developers at WMD: http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthre...-from-quot-We-did-it-quot&p=881847#post881847 (for those with access to the forums)
Cool, thanks. They did say if customers demand it...
Pitchforks at the ready?
If you can call constant ghosting increased IQ, PS4 has the best IQ among the platforms.
Notice the beams on the bridge. Notice that no single frame has a clean image of the beam. Not a single frame displays the beam in its correct color aside from the parts that intersect There are several games that use AA with a temporal component, and I can't remember any of them having this type of ghosting aside from very select edge cases.
The only reason most don't notice is because our brains work so well to recover the intended image, a ghost in frame overlaps with the ghost in the next frame. As for people not noticing this at 30fps twitch stream, it looks like downsampled 60fps video, and it looks smoother than a normal 30fps video because of the ghosting.
Those with brain damage such as myself see cones and lines doubled even at viewing video at full speed for example. Mind you that the car in the following gif is not running full speed and lateral movement of camera causes horizontal displacement of the ghost lines and cones.
When going full speed ahead, lines seem like having a motion blur because they vertically overlap.
Pitchforks need to be banned, how about we just ask
It's a good point.
Is there an official PCars forum that retail customers, rather than backers, can take part in?
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I'm not convinced it is a negative like everyone is making it out to be. It's not like we will be playing in slow motion.
It's a tradeoff I guess, improved IQ at the expense of this blurring, as I said previously, I had to look really hard on the streams and PS4 videos to notice it (ok, it's more apparent if you stop frame and frame grab a single image, but that's not how you play the game), I guess some people are more sensitive to these kinds of things.
Now what would be nice would be to see footage of the IQ with the temporal AA enabled, and one without, that would highlight just how much of an improvement in IQ you are getting for that blurring tradeoff.
If you can call constant ghosting increased IQ, PS4 has the best IQ among the platforms.
Notice the beams on the bridge. Notice that no single frame has a clean image of the beam. Not a single frame displays the beam in its correct color aside from the parts that intersect There are several games that use AA with a temporal component, and I can't remember any of them having this type of ghosting aside from very select edge cases.
The only reason most don't notice is because our brains work so well to recover the intended image, a ghost in frame overlaps with the ghost in the next frame. As for people not noticing this at 30fps twitch stream, it looks like downsampled 60fps video, and it looks smoother than a normal 30fps video because of the ghosting.
Those with brain damage such as myself see cones and lines doubled even at viewing video at full speed for example. Mind you that the car in the following gif is not running full speed and lateral movement of camera causes horizontal displacement of the ghost lines and cones.
.
When going full speed ahead, lines seem like having a motion blur because they vertically overlap.
Why all these slow-mo gifs? Just pause a video and it's there to see. At game speed I really struggle to see it though.
It's in the peripheral vision, and most people probably wouldn't notice it, however, he does make a good point about brain injuries and other neurological conditions seeing different things, I know autistic people have a different way of viewing things, and a different field of view, and don't always concentrate on the same area's that people without those conditions do.
Only in the straights. All the screen will have the effect in the turns. In addition to the driver's hands and the steering wheel in cockpit cam.
To display the nature of the ghosting and that it's not just a motion blur, that it is there at every frame, all the time.
The fact that 99% of other gamers failing to see this even at 30fps, let alone 60fps where image persists for half the time compared to 60fps also proves that validity of most graphics discussions is debatable: Look at the clarity of doubled cones and lines, there they are, all the time, and 99% don't notice it. Which makes it even weirder for me to come here and show these images. And this also invalidates the several hundreds of programmer time that tries to perfect temporal anti aliasing solutions. Just blend two frames and call it a day. Almost everybody will love it, some will call it a feature, increased IQ even.
Exactly. When you are turning, whole screen is affected. Or when in replay you choose a top down view, or when you AI opponents are running sideways with respect to your viewpoint (for example, after they turn a sharp corner before you do).
The AF looks really bad on this. Track and grass textures very poor. Up to now I'd been quite impressed with the visuals.
Pjsprojects
Member
If this ghosting blur thing is missing from X1 version because of overheads then why would pc not have the same look as PS4 ghost blur?
Could it just be a bug on PS4 that will get patched.
Could it just be a bug on PS4 that will get patched.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
PC probably uses a better AA method.
Pjsprojects
Member
True. PC build looks great,as do the consoles but that blur sort of reminds me of KZSF multiplayer display.
KZSF multiplayer shows ghosting on specific cases only in specific areas of the image, there's a lot of math going behind their re-projection technique to produce a 1080p image from two consecutive frames. Their AA also has a temporal component, though. Again, nicely executed. But given the current situation, I can safely say Guerrilla wasted a lot of time.
megabytecr
Member
to be honest I have been watching a lot of videos and streams for the PS4 version which is the one I might get, and I hadn´t notice the ghosting, which is pretty clear on slowmo.
For me it will come down to something else, I need to know if this game can be enjoyed only by extreme sim fans or just a racing fan.
I don´t have Driveclub yet and I plan to get that too, there is room for both, the career in PCars seems really interesting for a racing fan.
For me it will come down to something else, I need to know if this game can be enjoyed only by extreme sim fans or just a racing fan.
I don´t have Driveclub yet and I plan to get that too, there is room for both, the career in PCars seems really interesting for a racing fan.
Guess where's the YouTube sample:
You really shouldn't be judging texture quality from a YT video.
Very nice! The AI puts up a decent fight.