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[Speevy]

Guys, I work in retail. We get asked by our higher-ups to comply with things we know very well are wrong on a daily basis. It's called keeping the customer happy, and avoiding those nasty surveys.

A scam is when you trick someone into doing something that you know is wrong, but they don't know it's wrong. These cashiers know what you're doing. I train cashiers. They know.

 

[Marcel]

Which of those carries an immediate loss of $310 to the supplier and involves the removal of a finite physical product from the supply chain, one that someone would almost assuredly have come along and paid full price for somewhere in the short-term future?

Your point is irrelevant because I'm more speaking to the false "good consumer" superiority complex that pops up in threads like these. The "I would never do that (until I do it)" situation.

 

[Persona7]

I thought the Wii U thing turned out to be a automatic mark down because the NSMB bundle was discontinued completely? They typically don't price match stuff like that but sometimes they do.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Guys, I work in retail. We get asked by our higher-ups to comply with things we know very well are wrong on a daily basis. It's called keeping the customer happy, and avoiding those nasty surveys.

A scam is when you trick someone into doing something that you know is wrong, but they don't know it's wrong. These cashiers know what you're doing. I train cashiers. They know.

So they basically just have to go along with it to avoid petulant customers, and eat it financially later?

 

[IISANDERII]

Fight the power by scamming PS4s, grown up comrades

WHOOSH

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

If I was still in the market for one I would at least try.

Looking at the cashier like

 

[Nafai1123]

All your examples are cases where either you and the salesman are entering a good-faith agreement or you're exercising basic consumer rights.

That's a huge difference from engaging in borderline fraud.

But hey, let's pretend purposefully scamming someone isn't a bad thing! That's cool too!

I've said it before in this thread, I'll say it again: If it's shitty behavior at a mom'n'pop local business, it's shitty behavior at Walmart.

It's not fraud to take advantage of price matching based on a price you find on Sears/Amazon.

Keep in mind that I'm not referring to those individuals who knowingly placed these fraudulent prices on Amazon (that is a scam), I'm referring to those who used said prices from Sears/Amazon. There is a huge difference and as a consumer, you have the right to use that as a price match (which is dictated by the companies themselves). It's not Walmarts obligation to honor the price match, nor is it the consumers obligation to investigate whether the price is legitimate.

If we are going to pretend that all transactions where the price of a product is not accurately reflected in the purchase price, then most transactions that take place are scams. Small markets do it, Mom'nPops do it, and big retailers do it. The argument you're trying to make is that it's OK for a company to do it, but it is shitty for a consumer to do it.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Huh? If enough people don't support a company, you can damn well bet it's shutting down or laying people off.

Right, but ideally one who boycotts Wal-Mart on ethical grounds would buy products from other stores and help prop them up. Yes, Wal-Mart may be forced to lay off some employees, but in theory, Wal-Mart's competition might be able to hire these people and provide a better environment. This can only happen if people actually vote with their wallets and support the competition. Abusing Wal-Mart's policies certainly doesn't help anyone except the person getting the deal. There is no other long or short term benefit to anyone else.

 

[ec0ec0]

people were having fun in the wiiu/3ds thread yesterday. I enter this thread because it has been on the front page all day and...

wow the change, what the **** happened!?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

WHOOSH

I know the point you were trying to make, it was just fucking stupid

 

[Speevy]

So they basically just have to go along with it to avoid petulant customers, and eat it financially later?

Well the cashiers don't eat anything, but yeah, pretty much.

I marked a $150 item down to $30 the other day because we hung it in the wrong place, or they did. Who knows? They didn't throw a fit and the manager was happy.

 

[OG Loc]

So they basically just have to go along with it to avoid petulant customers, and eat it financially later?

You know that ThisIsNeoGaf.gif?

Yeah, replace NeoGaf with working retail at the end.

 

[Marcel]

So they basically just have to go along with it to avoid petulant customers, and eat it financially later?

Here's a guy who never had to work a shit retail job in his life.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Well the cashiers don't eat anything, but yeah, pretty much.

I marked a $150 item down to $30 the other day because we hung it in the wrong place, or they did. Who knows? They didn't throw a fit and the manager was happy.

Is there like a dollar amount of loss where it starts to affect employees, or does the company/head office/whatever just take the L?

Here's a guy who never had to work a shit retail job in his life.

Nice try

I think there's a dumb analogy out there waiting for you to post it

 

[cHinzo]

This is why we can't have nice things.

 

[mackattk]

people were having fun in the wiiu/3ds thread yesterday. I enter this thread because it has been on the front page all day and...

wow the change, what the **** happened!?

Ps4 has a higher perceived value than the Wii u.

I know that sears was a price mistake, but taking advantage of both options will inevitably lead to the same end result.

 

[plutoknight]

You can't pay lower than minimum wage.

Sure they can! convert all the cashiers to tip-based jobs a la servers!

 

[Joey Fox]

It's not fraud to take advantage of price matching based on a price you find on Sears/Amazon.

Keep in mind that I'm not referring to those individuals who knowingly placed these fraudulent prices on Amazon (that is a scam), I'm referring to those who used said prices from Sears/Amazon. There is a huge difference and as a consumer, you have the right to use that as a price match (which is dictated by the companies themselves).

Fraud is intentional deception that causes a loss. You know the price on the Amazon website won't result in a real product. Just because you can get away with it by lying or feigning ignorance doesn't make it not fraud.

 

[IISANDERII]

I know the point you were trying to make

You did? Your post certainly didn't demonstrate it. Weird.

 

[Speevy]

Is there like a dollar amount of loss where it starts to affect employees, or does the company/head office/whatever just take the L?

There's just a report you have to explain after a certain period of time. Drops in a bucket on a ship in the ocean on a planet, one of many.

 

[Marcel]

Nice try

I think there's a dumb analogy out there waiting for you to post it

I don't see a denial here so again so you don't seem to know anything about retail's "please the customer above anything else" mentality and how that works on the ground via cashiers and customer service.

 

[Nafai1123]

Right, but ideally one who boycotts Wal-Mart on ethical grounds would buy products from other stores and help prop them up. Yes, Wal-Mart may be forced to lay off some employees, but in theory, Wal-Mart's competition might be able to hire these people and provide a better environment. This can only happen if people actually vote with their wallets and support the competition. Abusing Wal-Mart's policies certainly doesn't help anyone except the person getting the deal. There is no other long or short term benefit to anyone else.

That's entirely debatable. If someone buys a PS4 at a highly discounted price, it's very possible that the remainder saved will be spent on other goods. Whether that is game related (games/accessories/etc) or other goods entirely, the money will flow somewhere.

 

[DoktorEvil]

So they basically just have to go along with it to avoid petulant customers, and eat it financially later?

That is what it sounds like.

I bet if it wasn't Walmart Inc. and it was mom and pop's local videogame store LLC, Gaffers here would be stupidly sympathetic and contradictory.

The difference here is that Walmart is the big bad around the block all the time when it comes to the problems of big box retail labor. No siree is there any bit of nuance to how Walmart or how big box retail operates.

People, in no world is a PS4 90 dollars a couple years after release. Adjust your moral compasses. You know your lying to yourself and you're lying to the retailer.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

There's just a report you have to explain after a certain period of time. Drops in a bucket on a ship in the ocean on a planet, one of many.

I see.

I've worked in some places where employees got docked if there was loss over certain amounts, but that was also 20 years ago

 

[Joey Fox]

people were having fun in the wiiu/3ds thread yesterday. I enter this thread because it has been on the front page all day and...

wow the change, what the **** happened!?

Exploiting a price mistake at another retailer is borderline unethical. I wouldn't do it at Wal-Mart, but would gladly have bought a WiiU at Sears for $60.00.

Exploiting a fraudulent website at another retailer is fraud. Huge difference.

 

[Marcel]

That is what it sounds like.

I bet if it wasn't Walmart Inc. and it was mom and pop's local videogame store LLC, Gaffers here would be stupidly sympathetic and contradictory.

The difference here is that Walmart is the big bad around the block all the time when it comes to the problems of big box retail labor. No siree is there any bit of nuance to how Walmart or how big box retail operates.

People, in no world is a PS4 90 dollars a couple years after release. Adjust your moral compasses. You know your lying to yourself and you're lying to the retailer.

It's a good thing it's about Walmart and not your ideal and convenient fantasy situation that is super relevant.

I see.

I've worked in some places where employees got docked if there was loss over certain amounts, but that was also 20 years ago

So you are actually 100% uninformed, having not worked retail in 20 years.

 

[Shig]

Your point is irrelevant because I'm more speaking to the false "good consumer" superiority complex that pops up in threads like these. The "I would never do that (until I do it)" situation.

I'm sure there's definitely some bullshit under some folks' veneer on that front, but some people really do practice what they preach, plus or minus a small margin of error.

I'll cop, I'm not totally incorruptible, I'd take advantage of a price match that smelled a little funny if it was of believable proportions and came from a reputable website. Getting into 50, 60, 80% off territory on a new console though, nah, there's something foul about that from the first whiff and I couldn't take advantage of it in good conscience.

You challenging the notion of anyone here having defined, if not absolute, moral codes with these repeated childish blanket taunts of "NAH EVERYONE'D DO IT YOU'RE ALL HYPOCRITES" is kind of grating.

 

[DoktorEvil]

It's a good thing it's about Walmart and not your ideal and convenient fantasy situation that is super relevant.

My "fantasy" isn't ideal, it happens very often in the real world. Big box retail killed the boutiques in major towns across America. How can that even be disputable?

The executives will take it out on rank and file employees, not on themselves.

But hey, I don't make it a habit to support Walmart. I worked retail and came to the conclusion that people are callous assholes to retail associates. I hate the "fuck you, got mine" mentality.

A PS4 isn't worth 89.99 and a Wii U isn't worth 60 dollars. I know where my ethics lie and it isn't with abusing pricing errors and fraud to brag about on Twitter.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

It's a good thing it's about Walmart and not your ideal and convenient fantasy situation that is super relevant.



So you are actually 100% uninformed, having not worked retail in 20 years.

Are you angry because someone prevented you from getting a discounted PS4, or are you always this charming

 

[Wickerbasket]

Your point is irrelevant because I'm more speaking to the false "good consumer" superiority complex that pops up in threads like these. The "I would never do that (until I do it)" situation.

This is the kind of justification criminals use to justify the acts they commit. It's easier to do something wrong when you believe everyone else would do it to. It's not true though, not everyone would steal or commit fraud.

I can honestly say that I wouldn't commit fraud to save a couple hundred bucks. Using fraud to buy a product at an insanely cheap price is worse than stealing, because you planned to cheat them out of the PS4 at below the cost it's worth.

 

[Zaku]

I'm sure there's definitely some bullshit under some folks' veneer on that front, but some people really do practice what they preach, plus or minus a small margin of error.

I'll cop, I'm not totally incorruptible, I'd take advantage of a price match that smelled a little funny if it was of believable proportions and came from a reputable website. Getting into 50, 60, 80% off territory though, nah, there's something foul about that from the first whiff and I couldn't take advantage of it in good conscience.

You challenging the notion of anyone here having defined, if not absolute, moral codes with these repeated childish blanket taunts of "NAH EVERYONE'D DO IT YOU'RE ALL HYPOCRITES" is kind of grating.

To add on to this, I'm not saying I'm a perfect saint. I've taken advantage of deals which I knew weren't entirely in good faith before... Hell, a couple months back I bought a sealed copy of Xenoblade off someone for thirty bucks.

However, I'm going to call a spade a spade, there. The guy didn't know what he had because he'd got it from someone else for $20, so I paid below market value for it because that was the price he'd put it out there for. It was kind of a dick move on my part, and I'll totally admit to that right here.

Tricking Walmart into honoring a price-match on a known fraudulent Amazon listing is several levels of dickishness above what I did, and there are people here who are claiming it's not a dick move in the first place, or that Walmart deserves it because "Fuck big corporations."

That's where my main contention with this is, here. Everybody is tempted by a deal that's too good sometimes, and maybe it even goes through and you get the thing. Telling yourself you didn't pull a dick move by doing it is another level entirely.

 

[Nafai1123]

Fraud is intentional deception that causes a loss. You know the price on the Amazon website won't result in a real product. Just because you can get away with it by lying or feigning ignorance doesn't make it not fraud.

That's funny, so this guy I know who bought a brand new 2014 Challenger Shaker (limited edition, $38k base price) for $30k because the dealer thought it was just a normal Challenger R/T committed fraud? He knew the car was coming in, he knew what it was worth, and yet he signed the paperwork and got the car anyways. The manager found out right after the paperwork was signed and ultimately there was nothing he could do. I've yet to hear about him being charged with fraud.

Yes, this is a true story.

 

[CosmicQueso]

so I paid below market value for it because that was the price he'd put it out there for. It was kind of a dick move on my part, and I'll totally admit to that right here.

That is not a dick move, at all. Both parties agreed to do the transaction in good faith.

 

[Zaku]

That is not a dick move, at all. Both parties agreed to do the transaction in good faith.

I was not entirely acting in good faith, from a moral standpoint. While the seller thought $30 was a fair value for the product, I was aware that he could get significantly more than what he was asking for.

That's funny, so this guy I know who bought a brand new 2014 Challenger Shaker (limited edition, $38k base price) for $30k because the dealer thought it was just a normal Challenger R/T committed fraud? He knew the car was coming in, he knew what it was worth, and yet he signed the paperwork and got the car anyways. The manager found out right after the paperwork was signed and ultimately there was nothing he could do. I've yet to hear about him being charged with fraud.

Yes, this is a true story.

It certainly toes the grey area of fraud or not. If the manager were to pursue the matter in civil court and could prove that your friend knew it was a Challenger Shaker instead of the base model before the purchase was agreed to, he'd have a case that your friend didn't act in good faith when making the purchase. Good faith doctrine exists for a reason.

 

[CosmicQueso]

I was not entirely acting in good faith, from a moral standpoint. While the seller thought $30 was a fair value for the product, I was aware that he could get significantly more than what he was asking for.

Doesn't matter... the buyer freely offered a good or service at a price and you accepted. That is good faith. Getting a good deal is not unethical.

Knowingly using a fake listing in order to acquire a good at a price lower than another party would otherwise offer that good is an entirely different situation.

That's funny, so this guy I know who bought a brand new 2014 Challenger Shaker (limited edition, $38k base price) for $30k because the dealer thought it was just a normal Challenger R/T committed fraud?

Also not fraud. The dealer freely agreed to a negotiated price. A seller making a mistake is also not unethical.

 

[DoktorEvil]

To add on to this, I'm not saying I'm a perfect saint. I've taken advantage of deals which I knew weren't entirely in good faith before... Hell, a couple months back I bought a sealed copy of Xenoblade off someone for thirty bucks.

However, I'm going to call a spade a spade, there. The guy didn't know what he had because he'd got it from someone else for $20, so I paid below market value for it because that was the price he'd put it out there for. It was kind of a dick move on my part, and I'll totally admit to that right here.

Tricking Walmart into honoring a price-match on a known fraudulent Amazon listing is several levels of dickishness above what I did, and there are people here who are claiming it's not a dick move in the first place, or that Walmart deserves it because "Fuck big corporations."

That's where my main contention with this is, here. Everybody is tempted by a deal that's too good sometimes, and maybe it even goes through and you get the thing. Telling yourself you didn't pull a dick move by doing it is another level entirely.

That's not a dick move. The person can easily do a Google search to find out the current market value. He's not a company putting a return policy or fancy logo next to the transaction. You also aren't coming to him and showing him a fake Gamestop price sheet valuing The game at 5 dollars.

If he was willing to let the game go at a low price, he either didn't do his due diligence or he was being courteous to a friend. He made a profit of ten dollars that he didn't have before and you found a copy of a game you had interest in and both parties were happy.

 

[CloudyTuba]

When I pricematch at Fry's, they only honor Amazon prices when the item is being sold by Amazon itself. Any individual listings are not honored. Havent kept up to date with this but my first impression is that Walmart could use a similar rule.

 

[hurricanes]

Wow, according to some people in this thread, no one is in the position to call out scammers because everyone has watched a unlicensed video at one point.

Talk about false equivalence.

 

[Phlebas]

Congratulations on the theft!

And he's so proud of himself, too. Ugh.

Too bad Neogaf shit posts is gone.

 

[TrAcEr_x90]

I really wish I was faster thinking on these things......always miss out. I'd also have no problem sleeping at night knowing I got one at this price!

 

[Nafai1123]

Also not fraud. The dealer freely agreed to a negotiated price. A seller making a mistake is also not unethical.

How is it any different than Walmart agreeing to a price match? They agree with a negotiated price and they made a mistake.

 

[Zaku]

Wow, according to some people in this thread, no one is in the position to call out scammers because everyone has watched a unlicensed video at one point.

Talk about false equivalence.

There's also the fact that anyone disagreeing with the fact it's a scam is a shameless Walmart corporate whore who can't bear to think of our dear masters as anything less than perfect and how dare we support a business trying to make money by not scamming shit out of them?

They deserved it? Didn't you see how they were dressed, all price matching and such. They were practically asking for it.

 

[Japanmanx3]

I KEEP MISSING ALL THESE FREAKING STEALS!!!!

 

[CosmicQueso]

How is it any different than Walmart agreeing to a price match? They agree with a negotiated price and they made a mistake.

Walmart agreeing to the price match isn't the problem. The problem is the individual that knowingly takes a false listing into Walmart to get the price match.

The price match is offered, in good faith, to the consumer so that Walmart can be an alternative to another selling party for that consumer.

By taking a listing in that someone knows is false, that consumer is not acting in good faith, as there is no real alternative selling party.

If a consumer instead went into the Walmart and said "I will pay you $89.99 for this PS4" and a Walmart employee agreed to sell that PS4 for that price to that consumer, then again, no fraud.

 

[CorruptShadow]

When I pricematch at Fry's, they only honor Amazon prices when the item is being sold by Amazon itself. Any individual listings are not honored. Havent kept up to date with this but my first impression is that Walmart could use a similar rule.

Walmart has that policy too, people named the accounts things like amazonelectronics. The employees either didn't notice it was a 3rd party, or mistakenly believed the party was amazon.

 

[postcyberpunk]

I KEEP MISSING ALL THESE FREAKING STEALS!!!!

I think I see what you did there.

 

[mgs2master2]

jesus this thread. no one gave a damn about the wiiU glitch or the great glitch of last year where gaffers got cheap ass games and free canoes. now people are just up in arms.

never change gaff

 

[CosmicQueso]

jesus this thread. no one gave a damn about the wiiU glitch or the great glitch of last year where gaffers got cheap ass games and free canoes. now people are just up in arms.

never change gaff

Taking advantage of a price glitch is not the same as committing this type of fraud.

Who's gaff?

 

[hurricanes]

There's also the fact that anyone disagreeing with the fact it's a scam is a shameless Walmart corporate whore who can't bear to think of our dear masters as anything less than perfect and how dare we support a business trying to make money by not scamming shit out of them?

They deserved it? Didn't you see how they were dressed, all price matching and such. They were practically asking for it.

Exactly! There is nothing wrong to scam big greedy crop!
/s


I do not sympathize them, at all. But what is wrong is wrong and two wrong simply don't make a right.

 

[Nipo]

jesus this thread. no one gave a damn about the wiiU glitch or the great glitch of last year where gaffers got cheap ass games and free canoes. now people are just up in arms.

never change gaff

Pricing mistakes are entirely the retailers fault. Committing fraud to match a fictional price is intentionally misleading.