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What developer/publisher has fallen the furthest from grace?
- Thread starter daTRUballin
- Start date
teacupcopter
Banned
Valve. From amazing to nothing.
what do they even do these days
345triangle
Member
how can the answer possibly be anything other than atari?
from defining and dominating the entire industry to becoming a sad brand slapped on failed video initiatives and urban outfitters t-shirts.
from defining and dominating the entire industry to becoming a sad brand slapped on failed video initiatives and urban outfitters t-shirts.
For me it's probably Capcom. They were #2 for me for a long time, second only to Nintendo.
Nowadays... Dead Rising has become a joke (and not the good kind). I don't care about MonHun. Resident Evil 7 seems nice, but I don't really care about Resident Evil outside of 4 (and to a limited extent, 5). They seem to localize about 1 in every 3 new Ace Attorney games. SFV was.. not completely worthless, but not a compelling 60 dollar purchase. New Marvel looks similarly shady. At this point even if they do bring original recipe DMC back I doubt they could do it in a satisfactory fashion.
Atari owned themselves even harder than Sega did, in smaller window of time, with less meaningful efforts to redeem themselves.
Nowadays... Dead Rising has become a joke (and not the good kind). I don't care about MonHun. Resident Evil 7 seems nice, but I don't really care about Resident Evil outside of 4 (and to a limited extent, 5). They seem to localize about 1 in every 3 new Ace Attorney games. SFV was.. not completely worthless, but not a compelling 60 dollar purchase. New Marvel looks similarly shady. At this point even if they do bring original recipe DMC back I doubt they could do it in a satisfactory fashion.
Atari owned themselves even harder than Sega did, in smaller window of time, with less meaningful efforts to redeem themselves.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
Commercially has there been a decline as large or as swift as THQ? They started the PS360Wii generation as one of the biggest publishers in the world, and would be bankrupt before the gen had played out.
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Bioware. Their decline is sad to see.
Bionic Commando Rearmed was spectacular.
They had a decent image from the Joe Danger games. No Man's Sky is probably a contender for the worst fall from a single move.
Mr_Appleby
Member
This thread made me realize the only Rare game I've ever played is Battletoads. Even of their Ultimate games, as a C64 owner, I only ever played Staff of Karnath.
neurosisxeno
Member
I find the number of people saying Bethesda to be confusing. Fallout 4 wasn't a fantastic RPG like Fallout 3 or New Vegas, but it was far from a bad game. It may not have met your expectations, but it was definitely a pretty enjoyable experience--especially compared to the output other companies listed here have had...
Crankshaft
Member
He never claimed to have created Mega Man.
Rather Dashing
Neo Member
Atari.
GabeTheGrouch76
Member
In terms of publishers? Definitely Sega, first and foremost. It's honestly a miracle they're still around because the Genesis was only their real success, and that was largely because of Sega of America/Europe in the West. Then arrogance kicked in from Sega of Japan for the Saturn and it was all downhill from there. It's really telling the new CEO had to apologize for betraying the trust of their consumers after the recent restructure. Honorable mentions go to Konami, Capcom, Atari, and MS as publishers too.
In terms of developers? Rare(ware) is personally the most depressing example for me. They produced several great games during their Nintendo era, and then the studio and their IPs has been mismanaged into wasted potential ever since MS bought them. A library of great IPs they've mostly sat on outside of controversial attempts at sequels, compilations, and one (actually pretty good) reboot done by two different studios.
On the flip side of the coin though, I'd point to Sonic Team as the most infuriating example to me. They had a standout IP (Sonic) that actually had a coherent vision to it that was supported by quality games, and were also willing to branch out into producing original IPs outside of it. Now? They've become a mediocre Sonic factory (Colors and Generations were at best decent platformers, and considering how the studio lost the plot again afterwards, they were arguably flukes more than anything else) that flanderized what used to be a serious alternative for premium platforming into an inconsistent speed-addled sloppy mess, while with all of their non-Sonic IPs have long faded into the ether.
In terms of developers? Rare(ware) is personally the most depressing example for me. They produced several great games during their Nintendo era, and then the studio and their IPs has been mismanaged into wasted potential ever since MS bought them. A library of great IPs they've mostly sat on outside of controversial attempts at sequels, compilations, and one (actually pretty good) reboot done by two different studios.
On the flip side of the coin though, I'd point to Sonic Team as the most infuriating example to me. They had a standout IP (Sonic) that actually had a coherent vision to it that was supported by quality games, and were also willing to branch out into producing original IPs outside of it. Now? They've become a mediocre Sonic factory (Colors and Generations were at best decent platformers, and considering how the studio lost the plot again afterwards, they were arguably flukes more than anything else) that flanderized what used to be a serious alternative for premium platforming into an inconsistent speed-addled sloppy mess, while with all of their non-Sonic IPs have long faded into the ether.
Leon S. Kennedy
Member
It's been stated already, but I would say Atari. They had nearly 100% of the console market in 1980 and were also the only software publisher until some ex-employees formed Activision and started making games for the 2600. Now, Atari doesn't even exist.
timetokill
Banned
Frankly I was surprised to see them mentioned so little. In fact the fact they were mentioned so little actually helps prove how far they've fallen!
That and that most of GAF wasn't around pre-PS2.
KirbKirb30
Member
3D Realms is the correct answer.
SoulUnison
Banned
SEGA is a good answer.
I've always loved them, but not many other companies have been forced out of the hardware arena and had to get seriously scrappy like they did.
I've always loved them, but not many other companies have been forced out of the hardware arena and had to get seriously scrappy like they did.
The OP should've asked for two answers because there are very different reasons why a studio has fallen from grace.
Blizzard has been very disappointing with how they handled Starcraft 2 and I was surprised to learn the team that made Broodwar was largely intact.
This is an example of a franchise falling from grace because the creators became sell outs and/or hacks.
The decline of WoW though can be attributed to a huge reshuffle of teams doing the project. WoW is still solid but the quality has dipped because their best teams were reassigned or left the company to try and break out on their own.
But Blizzard is only an example here. They still produce phenoms.
The teams who really have declined from crazy heights.
Team became hacks, sell outs or lost their mojo.
Square Enix
Mass exodus of key staff gutted the quality
Rare
Both
Sonic Team
Blizzard has been very disappointing with how they handled Starcraft 2 and I was surprised to learn the team that made Broodwar was largely intact.
This is an example of a franchise falling from grace because the creators became sell outs and/or hacks.
The decline of WoW though can be attributed to a huge reshuffle of teams doing the project. WoW is still solid but the quality has dipped because their best teams were reassigned or left the company to try and break out on their own.
But Blizzard is only an example here. They still produce phenoms.
The teams who really have declined from crazy heights.
Team became hacks, sell outs or lost their mojo.
Square Enix
Mass exodus of key staff gutted the quality
Rare
Both
Sonic Team
Coriolanus
Banned
Still around?
Maxis. By a very wide margin. Went from being an industry titan to... well, 200 posts and no one even remembered that they still exist. That's how rough it's been.
Maxis. By a very wide margin. Went from being an industry titan to... well, 200 posts and no one even remembered that they still exist. That's how rough it's been.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
GillianSeed79
Member
Bioware for sure. Square-Enix as far as internal development but they at least publish some good games. And fuck Konami in general. Can't say I'm a fan of Bungie or 343 recently either
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Konami, Sega and Squaresoft. My favourite developers when I was a kid, but today you couldn't pay me to play their garbage output. Just as well that many of their best IPs are dead and buried, they couldn't do them justice.
Deckard Chapel
Banned
Without a shadow of a doubt, Konami.
Since Kojima's departure, they've sunk into a level of depravity and mediocrity that cannot be expressed in mere words.
They have literally turned from a giant into a pebble.
Since Kojima's departure, they've sunk into a level of depravity and mediocrity that cannot be expressed in mere words.
They have literally turned from a giant into a pebble.
I mean, it is clearly Konami, right? They have a ton of amazing IPs, spanning a number of genres, and they are doing nothing with them. They were a brick house for generations, now they are an empty lot.
Capcom has clearly fallen pretty far, but they can also still push out a decent game occasionally.
SEGA is troubled, but they still have the Yakuza series.
Square has fallen quite a bit, but as of late things have been looking up (FFXV had problems, but there were some positives, Bravely Default games were really good, and some of their upcoming releases look solid).
So yeah, I feel like Konami is the only one that went from being one of the absolute best to declining to one of the absolute worst (with no hope on the horizon)...
Capcom has clearly fallen pretty far, but they can also still push out a decent game occasionally.
SEGA is troubled, but they still have the Yakuza series.
Square has fallen quite a bit, but as of late things have been looking up (FFXV had problems, but there were some positives, Bravely Default games were really good, and some of their upcoming releases look solid).
So yeah, I feel like Konami is the only one that went from being one of the absolute best to declining to one of the absolute worst (with no hope on the horizon)...
Sega by taking quantity of output into account. A lot of what they release is actually still good, it's just that they used to internally develop so much more. I'd say similar things about Konami, actually, though Konami has a really shitty business practices on top of that (only reason they aren't my pick overall is because I was never a huge fan of their stuff and my favorite series of theirs is something they still make).
CrimsonCrescendo
Banned
Developer - Rare
From 1994 to 2002 they turned out 25 games, accumulated over 51 million sales, were at the forefront of the industry regarding tech, revolutionized multiplayer shooters on consoles, and to this day is considered one of the best developers of all time during this period. Notable games: Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and so on.
From 2003 to 2008 they were a competent developer who still turned out flawed, but innovative titles. They turned out 11 games, but only garnered maybe 4 to 5 million sales from what I can find. Their market simply wasn't on Xbox. Notable games include Viva Pinata, Perfect Dark Zero, and Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts.
From 2009 to 2014 they were a Kinect company. They turned out 3 games, sold maybe five million (mostly from the first game) from what I can ascertain (I have no insider info, just published numbers available to everyone), and the last game was a major flop (again, no insider info... just info readily available on GAF). Low sales, low critical reception.
From 2015 onwards they've released a single game, a port collection of their old games. We're still waiting on Sea of Thieves.
From 1994 to 2002 they turned out 25 games, accumulated over 51 million sales, were at the forefront of the industry regarding tech, revolutionized multiplayer shooters on consoles, and to this day is considered one of the best developers of all time during this period. Notable games: Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Donkey Kong Country trilogy, Goldeneye 007, Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day, and so on.
From 2003 to 2008 they were a competent developer who still turned out flawed, but innovative titles. They turned out 11 games, but only garnered maybe 4 to 5 million sales from what I can find. Their market simply wasn't on Xbox. Notable games include Viva Pinata, Perfect Dark Zero, and Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts.
From 2009 to 2014 they were a Kinect company. They turned out 3 games, sold maybe five million (mostly from the first game) from what I can ascertain (I have no insider info, just published numbers available to everyone), and the last game was a major flop (again, no insider info... just info readily available on GAF). Low sales, low critical reception.
From 2015 onwards they've released a single game, a port collection of their old games. We're still waiting on Sea of Thieves.
AnathemicOne
Banned
I agree that Blizzard has changed over the years but I don't necessarily agree it was a fall from grace nor was it a result of hack/sellout writers. Blizzard games were never the pinnacle of good writing; they were good at hyping up the player/making things epic. Their storytelling peak of WC3 wasn't anything special as it heavily borrowed from other past works (Arthas/LK is literally Darth Vader). And like you've stated most of the team who worked on SC:BW was present for SC2, Metzen included.
And, more importantly, Blizzard is a gameplay-first company and has so far been pumping out stellar games over the past decade. SC2, while not living up to SC:BW, is still a successful game and we are getting SC Remastered in the works, WoW is still going strong, Overwatch, a new IP, has had a successful launch, etc. The only game that under performed imo was Diablo 3.
Kurt Angle
Member
valve
they don't make games anymore
they don't make games anymore
1morerobot
Member
To the people calling Fallout 3/4 trash, wake up.
Anyway, the obvious answers to me are Rare and Konami.
Sega and Valve too actually.
Anyway, the obvious answers to me are Rare and Konami.
Sega and Valve too actually.
Hence "being seen as."
Until he definitively came out two decades later and said he didn't create Mega Man, he didn't really do much to tell people otherwise. That said, watching this episode of Icons about Mega Man, he comes amazingly close to saying he did by talking about "when he was originally designing" the character.
It doesn't change how he's had an absurdedly big fall from grace in the eyes of gamers.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
Worse off devs and publishers have already been mentioned, but I want to nominate Telltale too.
They started off a pretty solid adventure game dev in an age when the genre was still a few years off from its resurrection comprised of ex-Lucas Arts guys. Sam and Max was what put them on the map and while Season 1 started off okay but by the time Sam and Max Season 3 rolled around, Telltale was making great games rivaling Lucas Arts. (I think Devil's Playhouse is better than Hit the Road) With Walking Dead Season 1 they became a rising star and seemed to be ones to lead the charge in the new Adventure Game Renaissance. But the wheels began to start to fall off around the super mediocre TWD Season 2 and after the fantastic swan song that was Tales from the Borderlands its been all downhill from there. They've been hemorrhaging talent for years who have been making better games than them (Firewatch and Oxenfree) and they aren't even trying anymore. The writing for their games are terrible now, there's barely any player interaction, and their archaic game engine can barely function anymore. They're practically just like the old licensed game developers of yore, crapping out any license they can get their grubby hands on with no effort put into it.
It's a real shame but at least the indies have kept the ball rolling and have been making great adventure games.
They started off a pretty solid adventure game dev in an age when the genre was still a few years off from its resurrection comprised of ex-Lucas Arts guys. Sam and Max was what put them on the map and while Season 1 started off okay but by the time Sam and Max Season 3 rolled around, Telltale was making great games rivaling Lucas Arts. (I think Devil's Playhouse is better than Hit the Road) With Walking Dead Season 1 they became a rising star and seemed to be ones to lead the charge in the new Adventure Game Renaissance. But the wheels began to start to fall off around the super mediocre TWD Season 2 and after the fantastic swan song that was Tales from the Borderlands its been all downhill from there. They've been hemorrhaging talent for years who have been making better games than them (Firewatch and Oxenfree) and they aren't even trying anymore. The writing for their games are terrible now, there's barely any player interaction, and their archaic game engine can barely function anymore. They're practically just like the old licensed game developers of yore, crapping out any license they can get their grubby hands on with no effort put into it.
It's a real shame but at least the indies have kept the ball rolling and have been making great adventure games.
Rare released a new N64 game almost every six months. And they were all high quality. Look at this list:
-Killer Instinct Gold (1997)
-Blast Corps (1997)
-Goldeneye 007 (1997)
-Diddy Kong Racing (1997)
-Banjo-Kazooie (1998)
-Jet Force Gemini (1999)
-Donkey Kong 64 (1999)
-Perfect Dark (2000)
-Mickey's Speedway USA (2000)
-Banjo-Tooie (2000)
-Conker's Bad Fur Day (2001)
An absolutely amazing lineup. And Nintendo just let them go.
-Killer Instinct Gold (1997)
-Blast Corps (1997)
-Goldeneye 007 (1997)
-Diddy Kong Racing (1997)
-Banjo-Kazooie (1998)
-Jet Force Gemini (1999)
-Donkey Kong 64 (1999)
-Perfect Dark (2000)
-Mickey's Speedway USA (2000)
-Banjo-Tooie (2000)
-Conker's Bad Fur Day (2001)
An absolutely amazing lineup. And Nintendo just let them go.
TheDinoman
Member
Honestly a big factor into what hurt the output of a lot of these companies going into future generations is the rising cost of game development. Back then, it was possible for a company like Rare to have different teams at once working on different projects, which is why they got so many games out during the N64 era, but nowadays you needs hundreds and hundreds of people on one AAA project.
NoctisVsStar
Member
The HD era hasn't been kind to a lot dev/publishers.. and many just want that mobile and dlc money .
Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
It's sad. Nintendo would have been SUNK without Rare saving their ass on the N64. It's a shame they didn't buy Rare out while they had the chance--even if just for the IPs (tho the talent was amazing too, but perhaps they were bleeding out by that point?)
TheDinoman
Member
Only really the Goldeneye/Perfect Dark team. Most of the notable people like the Stamper Bros., Gregg Mayles, Chris Seavor, etc were still there when the buyout happened. Out of all those, Gregg's the only one who remains at the company, being the lead designer for Sea of Thieves.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
I'd say Konami and Rare.
Konami saw franchise after franchise die, and now is little more then a pachiko company.
Rare, well, went from a creator of classics to pretty much nill these days.
Konami saw franchise after franchise die, and now is little more then a pachiko company.
Rare, well, went from a creator of classics to pretty much nill these days.
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