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[lvl99 Pixel]

trying to shut down smash bros melee @ EVO is unforgettable

recently they were still shutting down youtube videos unless you opted in to their "profit sharing" program afaik

 

[BocoDragon]

Which they regained by embarrassing their competitors in sales (and absolutely crushed them in profits) from 2006-2011?

This bizarre myth about Nintendo being on a constant downhill trajectory makes no sense when the Wii sold the same as the SNES, N64 and Gamecube combined, and the DS+Wii sold more than all consoles by Sony and Microsoft combined in the era.

Nintendo has been on a downhill trajectory, though. Every Nintendo console has sold less than the last, and the Wii is like one big fad/anomaly exception.

 

[Nuu]

Nintendo has been on a downhill trajectory, though. Every Nintendo console has sold less than the last, and the Wii is like one big fad/anomaly exception.

"Every Nintendo console has sold less than the previous one, when you count out the one that broke that trend, so I'm going to leave it out for convenience of my argument".

I can't wait for five years from now when people use the argument again with the Switch because "the Wii U doesn't count because it was basically a Dreamcast-like flop, so the Switch continues the downhill trajectory".

 

[Mass Appeal]

Nintendo has been on a downhill trajectory, though. Every Nintendo console has sold less than the last, and the Wii is like one big fad/anomaly exception.

I mean I guess you could say that before the Switch with the Wii u but 905k at launch in just the US doesn't seem like downhill anything. If the Switch sells 4-500k the next afew months and that's before the big games coming this holiday season, that would be a pretty good rebound from the wii u.

 

[rjc571]

Cartridges on N64. Single-handedly caused them to lose their dominant position in the console market and killed off nearly all of their third party support in the process.

 

[zidanelucis]

Nothing will ever top them pissing off Sony which in turn made Sony make a video game system of their own in spite, the PlayStation. And they've effectively been getting their ass handed to them by PlayStation ever since the N64.

They essentially created their worst nightmare and gamings biggest colossus. But if it wasn't for that stupid mistake we wouldn't have PlayStation. So it's not really a mistake.

Still, would be interesting to see if Nintendo and Sony were still together due to that deal instead of the falling out. NintendoPlayStation sounds sick.

 

[Neff]

I'd say the Playstation's status in Europe is proof that loyalty exists in the industry.

I'm not so sure. While consumer loyalty obviously does its part to an extent, Sony currently riding high is imo more attributable to the fact that PS4 is the better choice between PlayStation and Xbox this gen, compared to the relatively even European split last gen.

 

[etrain911]

In my adult lifetime? Their attitude towards Youtube and fan games is horrendous and makes almost no sense. No one viciously guards their IP like Nintendo that I can think of. That or their handling of their older titles and the VC in general.

As a kid? N64 cartridges sending third parties into the arms of Playstation.

 

[BocoDragon]

"Every Nintendo console has sold less than the previous one, when you count out the one that broke that trend, so I'm going to leave it out for convenience of my argument".

I can't wait for five years from now when people use the argument again with the Switch because "the Wii U doesn't count because it was basically a Dreamcast-like flop, so the Switch continues the downhill trajectory".

If you look at this and think I'm making a stretch, I don't know what to tell you.

The Wii is an anomaly to a long term trend of decline that has persisted over decades.

I mean I guess you could say that before the Switch with the Wii u but 905k at launch in just the US doesn't seem like downhill anything. If the Switch sells 4-500k the next afew months and that's before the big games coming this holiday season, that would be a pretty good rebound from the wii u.

I couldn't begin to predict the switch right now.

I imagine it will sell more than Wii U. But keep in mind that it's the heir to both Nintendo handhelds and consoles, so it inherently messes with a direct comparison to its console predecessors.

Will it sell more than Wii U + 3DS combined? Then we'd have a reversal of fortune.

 

[zidanelucis]

If you look at this and think I'm making a stretch, I don't know what to tell you.

The Wii is an anomaly to a long term trend of decline that has persisted over decades.

This is factual. Not sure what he's talking about but he's going to be wrong. Every single Nintendo console has sold less and less than the next. There's a factual reason or this. Factually, Nintendo's fanbase has left every generation after not dealing with their systems, lack of games, or just in general, policies. Every generation they lose more and fans. What do you think makes up the bulk of PlayStation and Xbox's fanbase? Ex Nintendo fans.

The Wii was a fluke. A product of its time. No matter how much you think it will...it will never happen again. The age of digital, internet, and iPhones was in its infancy. Wii hit its stride due to the year and times it was in. If you think Switch is going to sell as good as Wii or even close to it, you need a reality check.

No one should argue this because that's legitimately what it was. After the casuals gave up on it it was a fucking wasteland. Commercially? Yes, Wii was a success? For gamers? Wii was a failure. It lacked games aside the usual Nintendo 1st Party and had absolutely 0 3rd Party games PS3/360 had. I remember when SS came out and how dead in water the system was during that year. It all went downhill from 2009 onward. The casuals left and hardcore stopped caring cause the fad was over.

A great example to compare it to is Pokemon GO. Except that fad didn't even last 3 months. At least Wii lasted 3 years before people moved on.

 

[SecondVariety]

The online gaming/unified account approach of the last 16 years continues to be bizarre and backward.

Virtual Boy everything.

The Wii U introduction was horrible. Way too easy to think it was an add-on for an old passe system. Then no killer launch app


Underpowered hardware. The Wii alone needed more RAM.

The anti third party approach.

Localization refusal for Mother 3

The lack of a backlight in an GBA followed by the lack of a headphone jack on the SP.

NES Classic cord length. Switch headphone options.

 

[Kangi]

I guess we're also ignoring Nintendo handhelds in the whole "downward trajectory" thing. Though I guess DS would be a fad just like the Wii. Anyway.

Mother 3's treatment remains their biggest sin to me. EarthBound sold like crazy on the Wii U eShop and even that took the fans begging for the Virtual Console release to be brought westward. The Ness amiibo brought low the servers of an entire retailer. The series has more than enough fans to make it worth their while to just... bring it over, already. Gosh dang it. I guess EarthBound Beginnings not selling well delays a potential release by another good decade.

 

[BrendanSinclair]

Seems like most of the good stuff has been said already, so I'll just add that they put Metroid in the Playchoice-10 arcade system, which let you play NES games for a few minutes per quarter. Such a terrible way to experience that game, and a terrible way to sell new people on its merits.

 

[paragonpro]

"Standalone docks will be sold in limitef quanities...."
But seriously its there refusal to modernize with the way current markets are trendind like actively blocking youtubetd and streamers

 

[zidanelucis]

I guess we're also ignoring Nintendo handhelds in the whole "downward trajectory" thing. Though I guess DS would be a fad just like the Wii. Anyway.

Mother 3's treatment remains their biggest sin to me. EarthBound sold like crazy on the Wii U eShop and even that took the fans begging for the Virtual Console release to be brought westward. The Ness amiibo brought low the servers of an entire retailer. The series has more than enough fans to make it worth their while to just... bring it over, already. Gosh dang it. I guess EarthBound Beginnings not selling well delays a potential release by another good decade.

No ones ignoring handhelds so I'm not sure why you're trying to twist this. Handhelds have always sold well so there's no real pattern to compare it too. So using the DS to justify the Wii is laughable. Wii was a fad. DS wasn't a fad. It was yet another successful Nintendo handheld. And that's the truth.

It's the consoles that have had this trend ever since the NES. Every Nintendo console since NES has sold less and less, ignoring the Wii. Switch is an interesting one since it's the first time their handheld and console concepts are combined. No idea how that'll pan out since it's too early to say anything so I can't really comment on it.

 

[Ecotic]

Rare:

- Hasn't made a ground breaking and high selling game since
- Nintendo kept the rights to the Donkey Kong Country games
- Rare is shadow of it's former self, even just strictly quality wise, with their best title since the sale not even being developed by them

This would be like if Nintendo owned Team Ninja and sold them right win Itagaki left for half a billion dollars. The only difference is that Team Ninja has actually managed to keep the quality up to one of its main established franchises on its own, when Rare has yet to do that.

Nintendo selling Rare was probably the best studio sale move in gaming history.

You're making the assumption that what happened to Rare after the sale to Microsoft was what would have happened to Rare had they stuck with Nintendo. The Nintendo+Rare partnership allowed the company to flourish and the Microsoft+Rare marriage was what sucked them dry. Rare could easily still be at the top of their game had Nintendo optioned to buy them.

 

[2Smashed4U]

"Every Nintendo console has sold less than the previous one, when you count out the one that broke that trend, so I'm going to leave it out for convenience of my argument".

I can't wait for five years from now when people use the argument again with the Switch because "the Wii U doesn't count because it was basically a Dreamcast-like flop, so the Switch continues the downhill trajectory".

I sort of understand the point, in the sense that the Wii is not really something that is repeatable. I think there is some merit that Nintendo caught lightning in a bottle with Wii Sports and motion control and tapped into a market that neither they or anyone else new existed to that degree.

They might be onto something with the Switch but it remains to be seen.

 

[Tiktaalik]

inventing Waluigi

 

[2Smashed4U]

You're making the assumption that what happened to Rare after the sale to Microsoft was what would have happened to Rare had they stuck with Nintendo. The Nintendo+Rare partnership allowed the company to flourish and the Microsoft+Rare marriage was what sucked them dry. Rare could easily still be at the top of their game had Nintendo optioned to buy them.

I don't know about that. Staff were already leaving and Rare's output was considered to be on the decline. Those were factors that led to Nintendo deciding to let them go in the first place.

 

[Kangi]

No ones ignoring handhelds so I'm not sure why you're trying to twist this. Handhelds have always sold well so there's no real pattern to compare it too. So using the DS to justify the Wii is laughable. Wii was a fad. DS wasn't a fad. It was yet another successful Nintendo handheld. And that's the truth.

It's the consoles that have had this trend ever since the NES. Every Nintendo console since NES has sold less and less, ignoring the Wii. Switch is an interesting one since it's the first time their handheld and console concepts are combined. No idea how that'll pan out since it's too early to say anything so I can't really comment on it.

I don't really care to twist any narratives. I just find trying to draw a line of trajectory over six data points and then *throwing one out as an anomaly* a really questionable line of analyzing, especially when even that's just looking at one half of the story. Seems more like they just misfire as often as they hit the mark when it comes to consoles.

 

[McGruber21]

Honestly for me it's the lack of StreetPass functionality in the Switch. I know I am in the minority here, but I think what they did with StreetPass was brilliant and there is so much more that could have been done. I don't care if it would drain the already bad battery, damn it!

 

[Manu]

Not making a console Pokemon MMO.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Oh I forgot another big one:No proper console Pokeuman. Wtf?

Except that's not a Nintendo choice. GameFreak has said many times back then, that they prefer Pokemon to be on handhelds because of the social aspect.

 

[2Smashed4U]

Except that's not a Nintendo choice. GameFreak has said many times back then, that they prefer Pokemon to be on handhelds because of the social aspect.

That might have made sense 15-20 years ago, but the internet kinda negates that argument IMO. I'm guessing the vast majority of DS Pokémon multiplayer happens online now anyway.

 

[Buddha Beam]

No AC adapters for New 3DS's..

This has gotta be the winner.

 

[Sylverstone14]

The Virtual Boy.

 

[Neff]

The Wii was a fluke.

This is an extremely two-dimensional view of what the Wii managed to achieve, and Nintendo's business acumen in general.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

That might have made sense 15-20 years ago, but the internet kinda negates that argument IMO. I'm guessing the vast majority of DS Pokémon multiplayer happens online now anyway.

Tbh, I agree. Now that we have wifi features and that the Switch exists, there's really no excuse for a Pokemon game with console-level power. It'll be interesting to see what GameFreak does now that their status quo handheld is also a console.

It's just that I completely understood why they took the stance they did back then. Nowadays, it doesn't really make sense to maintain that with the Switch about to make the 3DS obsolete.

 

[ScientificPizza]

That graph completely ignores handheld sales

And to dismiss the Wii as nothing more than a fluke is insulting

 

[SalvaPot]

trying to shut down smash bros melee @ EVO is unforgettable

That lead to Nintendo's support, so it all ended well.

 

[BocoDragon]

This is an extremely two-dimensional view of what the Wii managed to achieve, and Nintendo's business acumen in general.

I agree. The Wii was brilliant strategy.

But I think the casual market they exploited in the mid-late 2000s was an anomaly. A console that would only blow up in that moment, pre-mobile devices.

 

[99Luffy]

Memory card 59. No wonder EA sports games bombed on the gamecube.

 

[ForkNetwork]

N64 cartridges shot the console in the foot

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Mother 3 not coming to the U.S.

 

[Grim Patron]

Allowing payday 2 to be released on switch

 

[DECK'ARD]

I agree. The Wii was brilliant strategy.

But I think the casual market they exploited in the mid-late 2000s was an anomaly. A console that would only blow up in that moment, pre-mobile devices.

Nah, Wii Sports would still blow up now if that was new to people. The experience sold the console.

Wii wasn't a fluke, it was a very calculated gamble with a genuine killer-app. The system ran out of steam because motion controls are too limited in their application to define a system, which you only really find out by trying it really.

They work best as supplemental, which the Switch has now implemented perfectly.

 

[NimbusD]

That graph completely ignores handheld sales

And to dismiss the Wii as nothing more than a fluke is insulting

yeah saying the wii was a fluke entirely overlooks some friggen genius design and marketing choices.

That's honestly why I say the Wii U was the most baffling, they took everything they learned and threw it out the window. Nintendo changes things up too much for its own good instead of building on what works.

 

[tsundoku]

as much as i want to say the scorched earth that remains of the paper mario series its gotta be amiibo festival

 

[Subtervotion]

Naming it the Wii U.

 

[Jubenhimer]

trying to shut down smash bros melee @ EVO is unforgettable

recently they were still shutting down youtube videos unless you opted in to their "profit sharing" program afaik

That's actually not what the Creator's Program does. Contrary to belief, Nintendo rarely takes down videos unless they're hacks of their games. What actually happens is that Nintendo footage often gets copyright claimed on YouTube, mostly thanks to YouTube's Content ID system. The video stays up, but all ad revenue that would've gone to the content creator goes to the copyright holder. The Creators Program was created as a response to that, where you can get paid by Nintendo directly without having to worry about the video getting claimed. Now, the way they're handling it is a mess, and they should rightfully be criticized for it, but they're not trying to be evil overloads, they're just being inept and out-of-touch as usual.

 

[Ecotic]

I don't know about that. Staff were already leaving and Rare's output was considered to be on the decline. Those were factors that led to Nintendo deciding to let them go in the first place.

I keep hearing this every time Rare is mentioned but I don't know where it comes from. The Eurogamer account of what happened to Rare portrays most things as having gone wrong after the Microsoft acquisition. And Banjo-Tooie, Perfect Dark, and Conker's Bad Fur Day were released in 2000 and 2001, so they were hardly behind beyond their glory days.

 

[Neff]

Nintendo changes things up too much for its own good instead of building on what works.

They can be complacent, there's no doubt about that, but if anything Wii U's downfall was directly attributable to attempting to rely on Wii's success, whereas Switch is doing extremely well because it's strived hard to disassociate itself from past glories and establish its own brand.

I agree. The Wii was brilliant strategy.

But I think the casual market they exploited in the mid-late 2000s was an anomaly.

I wouldn't have predicted a return of casual gamers to Nintendo's fold this time last year, but after Pokémon Go, Mario Run and now Switch, that's exactly what I'm seeing on a day-to-day basis.

 

[Dabi]

Changing up the formula for Mario Party. I can't stand the series now.

 

[VDenter]

1.Federation Force and Sticker Star were all really baffling decisions. Its like they said lets throw out every single thing that made these games good and replace it with something horrible. Genius!

2. Everything about the Wii U

3. N64 having to use cartridges and the GameCube mini dvds. Effectively Nintendo made the same mistake twice in a row.

4. 50Hz virtual console games on both the Wii and the Wii U in Europe.

5. The Wii should have been at least powerful enough to render 720p so that the games did not look like complete garbage by the time 2010 rolled around. Not to mention not selling component cables in some regions was a dick move.

6.Completely ignoring some franchises for decades.

7. How they deal with Youtubers is baffling.

8. Super Mario Maker 3DS.

 

[BocoDragon]

I wouldn't have predicted a return of casual gamers to Nintendo's fold this time last year, but after Pokémon Go, Mario Run and now Switch, that's exactly what I'm seeing on a day-to-day basis.

Two mobile games.

No one was in doubt that their IP would work great as third party titles on someone else's existing platform. In the context of this conversation, it's really the opposite of people "returning to Nintendo's fold". Nintendo brought software to hardware that people are on. These people did not come back to Nintendo's hardware.

Nah, Wii Sports would still blow up now if that was new to people. The experience sold the console.

Wii wasn't a fluke, it was a very calculated gamble with a genuine killer-app. The system ran out of steam because motion controls are too limited in their application to define a system, which you only really find out by trying it really.

They work best as supplemental, which the Switch has now implemented perfectly.

I don't think "motion controls + killer app" is the whole story.

It launched into a world where non-core gamers didn't have a technology toy in their life. Now they all do, in their pocket.

Some large percentage of the Wii's 100m buyers wouldn't be nearly as excited in today's climate of "been there, done that" with phones, tablets and a billion games that aren't for teenage boys. The novelty of a game machine for non-gamer geeks is completely gone.

 

[iceblade997]

No one should argue this because that's legitimately what it was. After the casuals gave up on it it was a fucking wasteland. Commercially? Yes, Wii was a success? For gamers? Wii was a failure. It lacked games aside the usual Nintendo 1st Party and had absolutely 0 3rd Party games PS3/360 had. I remember when SS came out and how dead in water the system was during that year. It all went downhill from 2009 onward. The casuals left and hardcore stopped caring cause the fad was over.

Re the bolded: CoD MW3 and Black Ops, for example, came to the Wii, as did Just Dance versions and, more recently, Fifa 15. That's not "absolutely 0 3rd party games PS3/360 had".

 

[2Smashed4U]

Re the bolded: CoD MW3 and Black Ops, for example, came to the Wii, as did Just Dance versions and, more recently, Fifa 15. That's not "absolutely 0 3rd party games PS3/360 had".

FIFA 15?

...is someone out there still publishing games for the Wii?

 

[Sylverstone14]

FIFA 15?

...is someone out there still publishing games for the Wii?

Just Dance still sells the most on Wii, last I heard.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Two mobile games.

No one was in doubt that their IP would work great as third party titles on someone else's existing platform. In the context of this conversation, it's really the opposite of people "returning to Nintendo's fold". Nintendo brought software to hardware that people are on. These people did not come back to Nintendo's hardware.

Well the pieces aren't in place yet. You really don't think Pokemon Go will act like a gateway drug to a full game when it comes out on Switch? It catapulted the franchise into the public's consciousness again.

Mario is less significant, but this strategy is sound. Nintendo can have their cake and eat it too.

 

[WooHooAlex]

Not releasing an upgraded HD capable Wii in 2008/2009.