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[Celine]

The Virtual Boy. Who thought that was a good idea, esspecially after testing it?

Ah ah that's true.
At least Nintendo killed it (literally) in 6 months.

Not buying Rare. Massive mistake.

Nintendo made out like a bandit in the whole Rare affair (Stamper bros. too).
Basically enjoyed Rare biggest success on the console front and then sold them for outrageous amount of money.

 

[spekkeh]

I'd be more interested in seeing a units sold by year chart, I imagine it would look much flatter than this chart.

Yeah. I don't have the yearly numbers and especially the NES and SNES might have a long tail as they become retro collector items, but even dividing by the number of years to the successor shows a notably flatter graph


NES 1983-1990: 61/7 = 8.7
SNES 1990-1996: 49/6 = 8.2
N64 1996-2002: 33/6 = 5.5
NGC 2002-2006: 22/4 = 5.5
Wii 2006-2012: 102/6 = 17
WiU 2012-2016: 14/4 = 3.5

 

[takriel]

Wii U

 

[Nuu]

If you look at this and think I'm making a stretch, I don't know what to tell you.

The Wii is an anomaly to a long term trend of decline that has persisted over decades.



I couldn't begin to predict the switch right now.

I imagine it will sell more than Wii U. But keep in mind that it's the heir to both Nintendo handhelds and consoles, so it inherently messes with a direct comparison to its console predecessors.

Will it sell more than Wii U + 3DS combined? Then we'd have a reversal of fortune.

This is factual. Not sure what he's talking about but he's going to be wrong. Every single Nintendo console has sold less and less than the next. There's a factual reason or this. Factually, Nintendo's fanbase has left every generation after not dealing with their systems, lack of games, or just in general, policies. Every generation they lose more and fans. What do you think makes up the bulk of PlayStation and Xbox's fanbase? Ex Nintendo fans.

The Wii was a fluke. A product of its time. No matter how much you think it will...it will never happen again. The age of digital, internet, and iPhones was in its infancy. Wii hit its stride due to the year and times it was in. If you think Switch is going to sell as good as Wii or even close to it, you need a reality check.

No one should argue this because that's legitimately what it was. After the casuals gave up on it it was a fucking wasteland. Commercially? Yes, Wii was a success? For gamers? Wii was a failure. It lacked games aside the usual Nintendo 1st Party and had absolutely 0 3rd Party games PS3/360 had. I remember when SS came out and how dead in water the system was during that year. It all went downhill from 2009 onward. The casuals left and hardcore stopped caring cause the fad was over.

A great example to compare it to is Pokemon GO. Except that fad didn't even last 3 months. At least Wii lasted 3 years before people moved on.

You can't say "but their hardware sales are declining" by taking out a system by convenience. Again you are going to do the EXACT same thing a few years from now when the Switch outsells the Wii U by stating the Wii U was an abnormal failure. Contrary to what most gamers think, people rarely buy systems primarily do to being loyalist and consumer good will, they buy them due to the games the systems offer. Everything else is a drop in a bucket. Nintendo systems aren't in decline because there are less diehard Nintendo fans. Hell, many of their niche franchises have sold better than ever in recent years, it's because less casual consumers (whether they be COD or Just Dance players) have been less attracted to their systems as they have migrated to other devices..

I imagine it will sell more than Wii U. But keep in mind that it's the heir to both Nintendo handhelds and consoles, so it inherently messes with a direct comparison to its console predecessors.

Oh, so this is the card you'll play.

You're making the assumption that what happened to Rare after the sale to Microsoft was what would have happened to Rare had they stuck with Nintendo. The Nintendo+Rare partnership allowed the company to flourish and the Microsoft+Rare marriage was what sucked them dry. Rare could easily still be at the top of their game had Nintendo optioned to buy them.

Rare was already starting to suck with Star Fox Adventures. A lot of Rare's best staff left the company a bit before the company sold themselves.

 

[danmaku]

So I'm not the only one that was baffled at the Gamecube controller... I can understand some of the choices, like having buttons of different shapes, but that crappy right analog and no left bumper button just scream "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy".

 

[Trigonometrize.]

So I'm not the only one that was baffled at the Gamecube controller... I can understand some of the choices, like having buttons of different shapes, but that crappy right analog and no left bumper button just scream "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy".

Those are the things that make you cry "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy"? Try the small, mushy ads d-pad!

 

[Oblivion]

the wii u

so what you're saying is that the wii u should have been called the "clonosaurus"?

 

[danmaku]

Those are the things that make you cry "whyyyyyyyyyyyyy"? Try the small, mushy ads d-pad!

You know, I forgot that thing even had a d-pad. But tbh I only used it for Metroid Prime (on the Wii).

 

[Ecotic]

Rare was already starting to suck with Star Fox Adventures. A lot of Rare's best staff left the company a bit before the company sold themselves.

Where does this come from? The stated fact that Rare's best talent left the company before the sell to Microsoft? I've never read that anywhere. And how are you able to separate normal staff turnover from an irreparable amount of staff turnover that you're inferring Rare suffered?

What I'm getting at is "the best talent left the company before the sale" is a not easily verified allegation that can be said of almost any company that died after a sale.

 

[marcbret87]

- Region lock in 3DS (though admittedly the X360 also had a region lock)
- Why not make Nintendo DS games available in the 3DS eshop if the system is Backwards compatible? Third parties might be hard, but their own first party titles should be there. Or GBA games for that matter?
- Locking online purchases to hardware instead of an account like MS/Sony/Steam
- The whole Wii U concept

 

[sirap]

Mario Maker 3DS.

Wasted opportunity. The 3DS was the perfect hardware for that game.

 

[Cartho]

For me it's a tie between no AC adapter included with the 3DS, no save backups or cloud saves of ANY kind for Switch (this is literally like something out of 2003) and tying purchases to hardware with the 3DS etc.

 

[AntiFacebook]

It's hard to pick one

 

[KtSlime]

Mario Maker 3DS.

Wasted opportunity. The 3DS was the perfect hardware for that game.

What on earth are you talking about, I have a copy of Mario Maker 3DS, and it is sweet.

 

[Ecotic]

Here's one that's less mentioned: Nintendo being late with the successor to the N64. Imagine if Nintendo had launched at the same time as the PS2 and had designed the system right (with DVDs, a standard controller, and a non-kiddy design).

You can be late if you're the market leader, but not if you're behind.

 

[sirap]

What on earth are you talking about, I have a copy of Mario Maker 3DS, and it is sweet.

Cool, I have it too!

And I still think it sucks compared to the Wii U version. They removed a lot of features that made the original game so enjoyable (unless they've patched in all the missing online features?)

 

[Backlogger]

Letting scalpers make money off their products when they could easily be the ones to do so

 

[Celine]

Wii U

It's Nintendo biggest fuck up for sure.
Sign of a company that only wanted to coast the success of the Wii without really understanding the basic of why Wii was so successful in the first place.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Where's Metroid at, String?

 

[SirNinja]

Mario Maker 3DS.

Wasted opportunity. The 3DS was the perfect hardware for that game.

What on earth are you talking about, I have a copy of Mario Maker 3DS, and it is sweet.

You can't upload levels online in Mario Maker 3DS. Pretty big deterrent for those who wanted to actually, you know...make stuff with this version of Mario Maker.

The only way to share levels is through local wireless (i.e., StreetPass), so good luck getting more than a dozen people to play your level. Unless of course you have your very own hotspot. Game might as well be called Super Mario Maker for Nintendo HomePass, as that's the only way the game has any kind of online sharing.

 

[cartman414]

You can't say "but their hardware sales are declining" by taking out a system by convenience. Again you are going to do the EXACT same thing a few years from now when the Switch outsells the Wii U by stating the Wii U was an abnormal failure. Contrary to what most gamers think, people rarely buy systems primarily do to being loyalist and consumer good will, they buy them due to the games the systems offer. Everything else is a drop in a bucket. Nintendo systems aren't in decline because there are less diehard Nintendo fans. Hell, many of their niche franchises have sold better than ever in recent years, it's because less casual consumers (whether they be COD or Just Dance players) have been less attracted to their systems as they have migrated to other devices..

Also, Sony has been losing momentum in Japan on the whole. PS4 may be tracking ahead of PS3 at this point in release, but considering how PS3 picked up later on, it's going to need a shot in the arm to keep pace, and PS3 did merely decently in the end.

 

[KtSlime]

Cool, I have it too!

And I still think it sucks compared to the Wii U version. They removed a lot of features that made the original game so enjoyable (unless they've patched in all the missing online features?)

No, it is still the inferior version. I thought you had meant it didn't exist.

You can't upload levels online in Mario Maker 3DS. Pretty big deterrent for those who wanted to actually, you know...make stuff with this version of Mario Maker.

The only way to share levels is through local wireless (i.e., StreetPass), so good luck getting more than a dozen people to play your level. Unless of course you have your very own hotspot. Game might as well be called Super Mario Maker for Nintendo HomePass, as that's the only way the game has any kind of online sharing.

Street pass is not a problem where I live, but the Wii Us way is superior.

 

[liquidtmd]

I've heard various lipservice over various generations - however third party support is still a fraction of what it is on other consoles and Nintendo's stubborness in many areas is plain to see.

Component cables, cartridges, naming the goddamn thing the Wii U', pulling the Nintendo Classic and pretending they'd always communicated it clearly as a short term product, putting in a pathetic amount of storage space in Switches...

When they produce A1 hits with their core franchises they are incredible for sure but goddamn they make it incredibly hard to like them as an overall company. They snatch defeat from the jaws of victory so many times.

 

[Harmen]

The WiiU. Nearly everything about that machine. Thankfully, the Switch has way more appeal and despite some odd things, I think it will continiue to sell well.

 

[McGruber21]

As a long time Nintendo fan, this thread is therapeutic. I hope it goes to 100,000 pages just to spite them.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Not understanding how the god damn Internet works.

 

[dampflokfreund]

WiiU and every decision around it.

 

[sphinx]

Not a single decision but their continuous ability to fuck-up 3rd party relations every step of the way.

more like fucking up, I feel like they just don't care.

their narrative is "hey 3rd party dev/pub, here's our new hardware, which was tailor-made to showcase our main IPs, we know none of the things you are working on are really doable/portable on it, and quite frankly, we also don't care about any of your input, but by all means jump in and make games for it!"

it seems they considered 3rd parties for switch though (as reported by capcom) but that's a first in their history.

 

[daTRUballin]

Letting Microsoft buy Rare. Letting possibly their best developer at the time to be bought out by a direct competitor. Like, WTF were they thinking?

 

[Doctor_Thomas]

Letting Microsoft buy Rare. Letting possibly their best developer at the time to be bought out by a direct competitor. Like, WTF were they thinking?

Based on Rare's output since then, was it really that big a loss?

 

[daTRUballin]

Based on Rare's output since then, was it really that big a loss?

But can we really determine how valuable they would've been to Nintendo by basing everything on the games they released under Microsoft's leadership? Is that really fair? How do we know if they wouldn't have fared better under Nintendo's wing?

They seemed to generally create better products under Nintendo. I don't see how that would've changed if Nintendo held on to them.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Based on Rare's output since then, was it really that big a loss?

That's more on Microsoft. They have a long history of acquiring successful game developers and turning them into literal garbage.

 

[dxdydz]

Having 3DS eShop purchases attached to the console, not an online account and having all security on the console side.
3DS eShop security is so poorly done, it literally allows pirates to download games for free from Nintendo's servers.

No miniHDMI on the Switch, forcing the need to bring the entire dock to a friends' house.
Weak stand. No charging in table-top mode.
No dpad.
No wireless headphones.
Paid online on the Switch, with a loan of an NES rom as the sole benefit.

Pretending Switch is a home console.

 

[VDenter]

Selling Rare was not the worst move in hindsight considering how much money they made. Even some of Rares output on the N64 was really not that great to begin with like DK64. and their style of games really started to clash with Nintendo's approach to developing games. Nintendo outright refused to publish Conker for instance. Also keeping a studio around well there is always the possibility that most of the talent can just get up and leave. Something Nintendo probably factored in when they decided to Sell Rare to Microsoft.

 

[meronpan]

Constantly doubling down on Japan despite it being a dying marketplace and all the real money being in the west.

Working for a Japanese company, having lived in Japan for some time and being married to a Japanese girl I can tell that this is true for almost all of Japan. Totally self-centered world view, to a degree that obvious trends and market demands are completely ignored.

Also one of the reasons why brands like Sanyo, Toshiba, Hitachi are either dead or vanished into oblivion.

 

[Neff]

No one was in doubt that their IP would work great as third party titles on someone else's existing platform. In the context of this conversation, it's really the opposite of people "returning to Nintendo's fold". Nintendo brought software to hardware that people are on. These people did not come back to Nintendo's hardware.

I disagree. I think what we're seeing with Switch is due to hugely increased exposure and shared attraction to Nintendo's own market thanks to the recent mobile appearances of their two biggest IPs.

 

[D.Lo]

I disagree. I think what we're seeing with Switch is due to hugely increased exposure and shared attraction to Nintendo's own market thanks to the recent mobile appearances of their two biggest IPs.

I don't know if that's specifically why the Switch is doing so well, but I do think their mobile strategy will pay dividends. The mobile games are basically ads for their main products.

 

[Neff]

I don't know if that's specifically why the Switch is doing so well, but I do think their mobile strategy will pay dividends. The mobile games are basically ads for their main products.

There's a number of factors as to why it's doing well as I see it-

- People are ready for Nintendo again having skipped a generation (or two or three).
- It's an extremely well-marketed, fresh-feeling system, totally free of any brand confusion which hampered past hardware.
- It launched with one of their strongest IPs which also happens to be one of the highest-rated games of all time.
- It's a very good, competitive, versatile, sexy system, and
- Pokémon Go didn't just dismantle the idea that Nintendo games were dorky and niche, it took a wrecking ball to it. It actually shocked me how much people around me suddenly viewed Nintendo as 'cool' again. It's been quite the roller coaster ride.

 

[Durock]

Selling Rare was not the worst move in hindsight considering how much money they made. Even some of Rares output on the N64 was really not that great to begin with like DK64. and their style of games really started to clash with Nintendo's approach to developing games. Nintendo outright refused to publish Conker for instance. Also keeping a studio around well there is always the possibility that most of the talent can just get up and leave. Something Nintendo probably factored in when they decided to Sell Rare to Microsoft.

Rare has always been and continues be a company with an incredibly diverse portfolio. You can go all the way back their humble beginnings to the present day and see how they've always worked on games that cover a variety of different genres. Platformers (2D & 3D), racers, fighting, shooter (FPS & TPS) puzzle, simulation, action/adventure, sports, and now an MMO. And their output on the Nintendo 64 was miraculous and nearly rivaled that of Nintendo themselves, with every game they released selling millions of copies with the exception of Conker and maybe Mickey's Speedway USA. Say what you will about DK64, but it still sold over 5 million units.

Even before the buy out, Rare had Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, Donkey Kong Racing, Starfox Adventures, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Diddy Kong Pilot, DK Coconut Crackers and Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge in development. Maybe even more than that! Heck, DKR, Kameo and Starfox were even on the back of the GameCube box!

And there was no max exodus of employees. It was a handful of people that went with David Doak to form Free Radical and Martin Hollis who went on to assist Nintendo with hardware development of the GameCube.

 

[daTRUballin]

Rare has always been and continues be a company with an incredibly diverse portfolio. You can go all the way back their humble beginnings to the present day and see how they've always worked on games that cover a variety of different genres. Platformers (2D & 3D), racers, fighting, shooter (FPS & TPS) puzzle, simulation, action/adventure, sports, and now an MMO. And their output on the Nintendo 64 was miraculous and nearly rivaled that of Nintendo themselves, with every game they released selling millions of copies with the exception of Conker and maybe Mickey's Speedway USA. Say what you will about DK64, but it still sold over 5 million units.

Even before the buy out, Rare had Perfect Dark Zero, Kameo, Donkey Kong Racing, Starfox Adventures, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Diddy Kong Pilot, DK Coconut Crackers and Banjo-Kazooie: Grunty's Revenge in development. Maybe even more than that! Heck, DKR, Kameo and Starfox were even on the back of the GameCube box!

And there was no max exodus of employees. It was a handful of people that went with David Doak to form Free Radical and Martin Hollis who went on to assist Nintendo with hardware development of the GameCube.

If I'm not mistaken, they were also working on a game called Quest and also on Your Garden which was Viva Piñata before it was called that. They were a massive studio around the time of the buyout.

 

[vern]

Dumbest thing Nintendo did was not money hat Capcom for a good Resident Evil 4 sequel on Wii. Boggles the mind what happened after RE4.

 

[Tesser]

I disagree. I think what we're seeing with Switch is due to hugely increased exposure and shared attraction to Nintendo's own market thanks to the recent mobile appearances of their two biggest IPs.

I'm curious to see/know how much of an impact Fire Emblem Heroes has had on Nintendo's presence in the general consumer's/mobile-centric mind. It's a no-brainer from a business stand-point FE has had a lot more focus now what with a 3DS game and two Switch titles on the way.

 

[sixteen-bit]

burying metroid

 

[Wiped89]

It has to be everything to do with Wii U.

Not just the way they so poorly designed and named the console, but the sluggish as hell UI, the appalling software droughts and the way they straight up MURDERED mega-hit franchises from the Wii era. Instead of releasing Wii Sports 3, a surefire system seller, they made the weird ass Wii Sports Club remaster and released each sport separately. Then instead of Wii Fit 2, they made Wii Fit U with a weird add on that was never available anywhere, and then stealth released it.

I will never understand any of the truly baffling decisions surround the console, and I bought mine on launch and still play it every week.

 

[The Greek Freak]

It worked out amazingly for them but the wii.

Waggle was and still is a trash way to control anything beyond the arms of a wavy tube man.

Good for them though.

 

[Newtype-001]

No ethernet ports on both Wii u and Switch

 

[shiyrley]

The Gamecube Controller face button layout. Playing Street Fighter or Tony Hawks with that thing was incredibly uncomfortable compared to the Playstation, but GIMMICKS.

The GameCube controller is the most comfortable controller in human history fite me bro

No ethernet ports on both Wii u and Switch

THIS
Thank god the Wii U's ethernet adapter works on Switch.

 

[laxu]

For me it was the region locked games on 3DS. You have a highly portable device with apps built around encountering people in new locations yet taking it with you on a vacation abroad you can't buy any games for it in that country because of the region lock.

It always amazes me when any media company literally refuses to accept money by having artificial restrictions.

 

[The Pope]

Every decision they have ever made. The Wii was baffling but look how well that turned out. Nintendo never plays it safe or takes the logical easy route - and more often then not Nintendo has succeeded.

 

[mickagau33]

Maybe going from region free on all handhelds (GameBoy, GBC, GBA, DS) to region locked on DSi enhanced titles and 3DS. Thankfully Switch is back to region free.

This for me, especially 3DS...I had to buy 2 systems (PAL and JP) to play all the games I wanted to play.