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[entremet]

Today, mainstream dating guides tell the everything-going-for-her career woman it’s her fault she’s still single—she just needs to play hard to get or follow a few simple rules to snag Mr. Right. But the problem is a demographic one.

Multiple studies show that college-educated Americans are increasingly reluctant to marry those lacking a college degree. This bias is having a devastating impact on the dating market for college-educated women. Why? According to 2012 population estimates from the U.S. Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, there are 5.5 million college-educated women in the U.S. between the ages of 22 and 29 versus 4.1 million such men. That’s four women for every three men. Among college grads age 30 to 39, there are 7.4 million women versus 6.0 million men—five women for every four men.

It’s not that He’s Just Not That Into You—it’s that There Just Aren’t Enough of Him.

Lopsided gender ratios don’t just make it statistically harder for college-educated women to find a match. They change behavior too. According to sociologists, economists and psychologists who have studied sex ratios throughout history, the culture is less likely to emphasize courtship and monogamy when women are in oversupply. Heterosexual men are more likely to play the field, and heterosexual women must compete for men’s attention.

Of course, tales of scarce men and sexual permissiveness in ancient Sparta won’t convince everyone, so I began to explore the demographics of modern religion. I wanted to show that god-fearing folks steeped in old-fashioned values are just as susceptible to the effects of shifting sex ratios as cosmopolitan, hookup-happy 20-somethings who frequent Upper East Side wine bars.

The first being Mormonism

One of my web searches turned up a study from Trinity College’s American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) on the demographics of Mormons. According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women. On a lark, I emailed my friend Cynthia Bowman,* a devout Mormon who grew up in Salt Lake City and returns there often, and asked her whether Mormon sex ratios are as lopsided as the ARIS study claimed. [Editor’s note: “Cynthia Bowman” is a pseudonym, as are other names denoted with an asterisk. Some biographical details have been altered to hide their identities.]

These lopsided gender ratios in favor of men has made Salt Lake City the breast implant capital of the US

The other religion--Orthodox Judaism

Secular-style dating is rare in the Orthodox community in which Elefant lives. Most marriages are loosely arranged—“guided” is probably a better word—by matchmakers such as Elefant. The shadchan’s job has been made exceedingly difficult, she said, by a mysterious increase in the number of unmarried women within the Orthodox community. When Elefant attended Jewish high school 30 years ago, “there were maybe three girls that didn’t get married by the time they were twenty or twenty-one,” she said. “Today, if you look at the girls who graduated five years ago, there are probably thirty girls who are not yet married. Overall, there are thousands of unmarried girls in their late twenties. It’s total chaos.”

http://time.com/dateonomics/

The article is long and worth reading, but the gist is that the pool of eligible bachelors is continuing to shrink is major population centers in the US.

Why it's shrinking has many issue, but as the author posits, it's not that there are less men born, but the fact that there is a bias toward college educated men in the dating market and more and more men are not getting degrees, while more women are.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Why it's shrinking has many issue, but as the author posits, it's not that there are less men born, but the fact that there is a bias toward college educated men in the dating market and more and more men are not getting degrees, while more women are.

So it's more a crisis with education than dating? I have a (relatively) similar bias when it comes to dating. I want a partner who is at at least as financially secure as me. One who can hold their own in the finances. That typically denotes someone with at least a bachelor degree these days, but there are instances of people reaching that level without one.

 

[entremet]

So it's more a crisis with education than dating?

Well it affects the other. The author is focusing on dating in this instance.

In terms of college, though, having a degree doesn't mean your educated nor well off.

The trades, which is heavily male dominated, pays pretty well, but it seems that there's a stigma there too.

 

[Viewt]

Yeah, I think the root cause here is that boys are being undereducated compared to girls. There's been a big push to get girls into college, which is fantastic and should continue, but it seems like they might have leapfrogged boys in the process, and now boys are lagging behind.

I mean, as a formerly-single guy, I can say that as a normal dude with financial stability and an easy-going personality, the deck was kind of stacked in my favor. I'd go on a ton of dates where these girls would tell me about how awful the dating scene is, and how many guys are completely unable to function in a romantic environment, and how nice it was to meet someone normal and stable. And this is in Chicago where there isn't exactly a shortage of people around.

So yeah, it's a bummer for these ladies, especially those seeking monogamy, I guess, if this study is correct.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

In terms of college, though, having a degree doesn't mean your educated nor well off.

Correct, a degree seems to generally denote greater opportunity and/or dedication (and sometimes being well-rounded). An old friend of mine is a legit genius but because he dropped out of college and didn't finish a degree he was overlooked by many employers (though he did eventually land a job where he's making bank now, after starting low on the ladder). As for myself, I was never seriously treated as a candidate until a bachelor was added to my resume.

 

[entremet]

Yeah, I think the root cause here is that boys are being undereducated compared to girls. There's been a big push to get girls into college, which is fantastic and should continue, but it seems like they might have leapfrogged boys in the process, and now boys are lagging behind.

I mean, as a formerly-single guy, I can say that as a normal dude with financial stability and an easy-going personality, the deck was kind of stacked in my favor. I'd go on a ton of dates where these girls would tell me about how awful the dating scene is, and how many guys are completely unable to function in a romantic environment, and how nice it was to meet someone normal and stable. And this is in Chicago where there isn't exactly a shortage of people around.

So yeah, it's a bummer for these ladies, especially those seeking monogamy, I guess, if this study is correct.

Yeah.

Also men have always had options outside of college that women never did or fields that weren't as appealing to women.

The trades are a good example. Almost completely male dominated. Even stuff like becoming a firefighter or cop, which used only require a HS diploma.

Generations of men would pursue those industries instead of traditional college.

Now, as we've become a service economy and technology has replaced many manual labor jobs, sectors that had generations of men in their ranks are dying down.

 

[Assanova]

Online dating says otherwise. All I hear about are men struggling to get a date from women in that realm.

 

[entremet]

Online dating says otherwise.

How so?

That's anecdotal evidence my friend. The author here has real stats. Also getting a date and coupling in a serious relationship are two different things.

Many of my female friends can easily get dates. Finding a long term boyfriend is harder.

 

[kirblar]

So it's more a crisis with education than dating?

It's not so much a crisis as it is that people tend to date/marry in their own socioeconomic group. Women tend to be more sensitive to social status differences than men are. Also, income inequality has hurt reduced the earnings ability of people without a degree relative to those with one, which makes supporting children more difficult. The relative cost of raising a kid has gone up in the same timeframe, which is likely contributing in part to lower labor participation rates since a stay at home parent is "worth" more than it used to be.

IIRC, the education inverted gender gap has always been a thing, but the GI Bill ended up sending an enormous amount of men to school who previously wouldn't have gone. As that source dried up, the gap re-emerged in the last 20-30 years going back to pre-GI Bill levels of relative enrollment.

Online dating says otherwise. All I hear about are men struggling to get a date from women in that realm.

That's because it's mostly men on the sites.

 

[SmokyDave]

These lopsided gender ratios in favor of men has made Salt Lake City the breast implant capital of the US

 

[ClosingADoor]

Girls are more educated and moving to the cities for work. Guys stay more in rural areas, so you have an oversupply of single women in cities, oversupply of single guys in smaller towns and villages. At least that was an article I read last month or so. It'll work itself out in the end I guess.

 

[entremet]

It's not so much a crisis as it is that people tend to date/marry in their own socioeconomic group. Women tend to be more sensitive to social status differences than men are. Also, income inequality has hurt reduced the earnings ability of people without a degree relative to those with one, which makes supporting children more difficult. The relative cost of raising a kid has gone up in the same timeframe, which is likely contributing in part to lower labor participation rates since a stay at home parent is "worth" more than it used to be.

IIRC, the education inverted gender gap has always been a thing, but the GI Bill ended up sending an enormous amount of men to school who previously wouldn't have gone. As that source dried up, the gap re-emerged in the last 20-30 years going back to pre-GI Bill levels of relative enrollment.

That's because it's mostly men on the sites.

That's correct. The issue now is that college degrees are the bare minimum to enter many fields, not just something nice to have like it was 30 years ago.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

As somebody who didn't finish college and has worked in food service for the past 10 years.

It sucks.

 

[Manmademan]

Online dating says otherwise. All I hear about are men struggling to get a date from women in that realm.

that doesn't disprove the theory. Plenty of men struggle online because women will ignore all but the handful of "ideal" partners. degree is part of that.

 

[Cowie]

One of my web searches turned up a study from Trinity College’s American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) on the demographics of Mormons. According to the ARIS study, there are now 150 Mormon women for every 100 Mormon men in the state of Utah—a 50 percent oversupply of women.

To be fair, the Mormons had a solution for this one. We just nixed it.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Well now, this was a substantially more interesting article/topic than the title made it out to be. That doesn't usually happen. I'm glad I clicked—thanks OP.

 

[entremet]

that doesn't disprove the theory. Plenty of men struggle online because women will ignore all but the handful of "ideal" partners. degree is part of that.

Yep.

This is a dynamic that many men just don't get or understand. It has to do with projection.

We believe women want the same things we want or at least in the same priority, when study after study shows different priorities in long term partner preferences.

 

[Azih]

Boils down to how many eligible men there are as opposed to eligible women. Simple as that. The complication comes from what different communities consider 'eligible'.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

We believe women want the same things we want or at least in the same priority, when study after study shows different priorities in long term partner preferences.

I don't think I've ever actually heard people think women and men want the same thing. It's always been 'men want women with a rocking body' and 'women want men who are financially secure'. Those are just the things I hear average people say, mind you, not ideas I necessarily buy into.

 

[number47]

The article actually talks about the religion (Mormon and Jewish) dating sector. I don't know. Maybe as technology advances, there's less of a reason to still be religious?

I ask why are women more keen to organized religion?

 

[Manmademan]

The article actually talks about the religion (Mormon and Jewish) dating sector. I don't know. Maybe as technology advances, there's less of a reason to still be religious?

I ask why are women more keen to organized religion?

Women are more risk averse than men are, and abandoning tradition and family networks to go it alone instead is a hell of a risk.

 

[entremet]

I don't think I've ever actually heard people think women and men want the same thing. It's always been 'men want women with a rocking body' and 'women want men who are financially secure'. Those are just the things I hear average people say, mind you, not ideas I necessarily buy into.

You're right. That's the "conventional" wisdom.

But projection does tend to come up on how we perceive each other in the dating market.

 

[Assanova]

that doesn't disprove the theory. Plenty of men struggle online because women will ignore all but the handful of "ideal" partners. degree is part of that.

How so?

That's anecdotal evidence my friend. The author here has real stats. Also getting a date and coupling in a serious relationship are two different things.

Many of my female friends can easily get dates. Finding a long term boyfriend is harder.

I think there are real stats showing how difficult it is for men online; one of those OK Cupid or Match studies, I think. Either way, I do hear about women complaining about a lack of qualified men, however, I do think that many of them have their standards set way too high. The way it is now, no one wins, and everyone is single and miserable, well, I guess alpha males and women just looking for sex win.

 

[M52B28]

This article and thread is an interesting read.

Thanks for posting it.

 

[number47]

Women are more risk averse than men are, and abandoning tradition and family networks to go it alone instead is a hell of a risk.

Friends?

 

[BigDug13]

To be fair, the Mormons had a solution for this one. We just nixed it.

Good point. I wonder if some of those women who can't find a man are wishing for those times to return.

 

[Manmademan]

Friends?

are likely to be part of the same religious groups, especially if they grew up together.

 

[entremet]

Good point. I wonder if some of those women who can't find a man are wishing for those times to return.

It still happens on the DL. I remember watching a documentary about it.

 

[sc0la]

Why are you flying to Tatooine? This isn't a Star Wars thread.

Interesting article. China is an interesting case study in the effects lopsided gender quantities as well.

 

[number47]

are likely to be part of the same religious groups, especially if they grew up together.

Wow. What are you thinking right now? Because I was thinking of pointing out then what's the point of marrying someone who doesn't have a life outside their religion? Really? She would have no friends. Not 1 who isn't religious?

I can see the point of not marrying a person like that. That would be a problem.

But how likely? Do you have a number? Or stat

 

[S-Wind]

Sounds like great news for some men.

 

[entremet]

Wow. What are you thinking right now? Because I was thinking of pointing out then what's the point of marrying someone who doesn't have a life outside their religion? Really? She would have no friends. Not 1 who isn't religious?

I can see the point of not marrying a person like that. That would be a problem.

But how likely? Do you have a number? Or stat

You're really underestimating the tribal nature of these communities, especially the two religions in the article, which are some of the most insular religious communities in the US.

These are basically lifelines to many people in them.

 

[Harry Stewart]

Perception of one's possibilities is a big part of it and I'm not surprised it continues in the dating scene. I left the States when I had just started high school, but I remember college (or maybe the Army) being the only thing anyone talked about doing after graduating. It's like nothing else existed. That bias does exist here in Europe in some circles, but there's no shame in having foregone higher education to do an apprenticeship and learn a skill if it ends up in a steady job. It's actually brought up as a possibility while you're young. And if you choose to go to Uni it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. The financial and existential pressure American young adults are under is reaching crazy levels.

 

[genjiZERO]

As someone who would only date someone with a college degree (and frankly I don't really even want to date someone who doesn't have a graduate degree) where the hell are these women? Seriously, it doesn't seem like there's anyone in my city and I live in the capital of the state I live in. Even, OKC is a wasteland.

 

[entremet]

As someone who would only date someone with a college degree (and frankly I don't really even want to date someone who doesn't have a graduate degree) where the hell are these women? Seriously, it doesn't seem like there's anyone in my city and I live in the capital of the state I live in. Even, OKC is a wasteland.

The link has map where that shows specifically were the gender ratios are the most unbalanced.

If you're an educated dude, NYC is a great option.

SF, Silicon Valley is a bad option. More eligible men than women.

 

[Manmademan]

Wow. What are you thinking right now? Because I was thinking of pointing out then what's the point of marrying someone who doesn't have a life outside their religion? Really? She would have no friends. Not 1 who isn't religious?

I can see the point of not marrying a person like that. That would be a problem.

But how likely? Do you have a number? Or stat

As a black atheist I've had this discussion many times before. There is a HUGE discrepancy between how religious black men and women are, and this is why.

As in the population overall, African-American men are significantly more likely than women to be unaffiliated with any religion (16% vs. 9%). African-American women are somewhat more likely than African-American men to describe themselves as Protestant (82% of women vs. 72% of men). Among African-American women, 62% are members of historically black Protestant churches, 16% are affiliated with evangelical churches and 4% are mainline Protestant; among men, 55% are members of historically black churches, 14% are evangelical and 4% are mainline Protestant.

African-American women also stand out for their high level of religious commitment. More than eight-in-ten black women (84%) say religion is very important to them, and roughly six-in-ten (59%) say they attend religious services at least once a week. No group of men or women from any other racial or ethnic background exhibits comparably high levels of religious observance.

http://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/a-religious-portrait-of-african-americans/

Black women are the most religious group in the country, and adherence to it is enforced at pretty much all levels, from close family, to the church, to mass media. Decide to leave the church and you will not only lose the support of pretty much all of your friends and family- complete strangers will get hostile and attack you for it.

I have a few jewish atheist friends that report similar behavior, but I couldn't say first hand whether their experience is identical across genders. It's extremely uncomfortable to lose your entire support network. Women are naturally more risk averse in their behavior (there are tons of studies on this one, you can google this yourself) so it's not really a surprise that more of them are invested in organized religion. That's where security and stability is.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Where are these single women in SLC?

95% of the women I've met in SLC in college are either married or already have a SO.

Where am I.

 

[entremet]

Where are these single women in SLC?

95% of the women I've met in SLC in college are either married or already have a SO.

Where am I.

Are you Mormon?

If not, that's why you're not finding them. They're at church and Mormon events. That's were you would meet them. They're also gonna be on e-Harmony and not Tinder lol.

They want Mormon husbands.

 

[speculawyer]

As any who has used online dating before, the dating scene is a market. Supply & demand.

That's just the way it is whether you like it or not. Markets natural form.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Why are you flying to Tatooine? This isn't a Star Wars thread.

He was being cheeky and added an extra sun in response to the breast implant quote. Get it?

 

[number47]

As a black atheist I've had this discussion many times before. There is a HUGE discrepancy between how religious black men and women are, and this is why.



http://www.pewforum.org/2009/01/30/a-religious-portrait-of-african-americans/

Black women are the most religious group in the country, and adherence to it is enforced at pretty much all levels, from close family, to the church, to mass media. Decide to leave the church and you will not only lose the support of pretty much all of your friends and family- complete strangers will get hostile and attack you for it.

I have a few jewish atheist friends that report similar behavior, but I couldn't say first hand whether their experience is identical across genders. It's extremely uncomfortable to lose your entire support network. Women are naturally more risk averse in their behavior (there are tons of studies on this one, you can google this yourself) so it's not really a surprise that more of them are invested in organized religion. That's where security and stability is.

This mother called my stat bluff.lol

But I'm calling shenanigans on complete strangers attacking you. I always get a odd feeling religious people are the most paranoid. But (maybe) that's why they need the rules more than others. Someone should look into that.

Complete network? Just have friends in our hobbies man.

 

[John Kowalski]

Cross class dating is unsurprisingly nowhere to be found.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Should I ask to see her degree before I give her the D?

 

[Manmademan]

This mother called my stat bluff.lol

But I'm calling shenanigans on complete strangers attacking you.

call it all you want, that's a real thing and it's not fun. I'm nearly 37 and don't bring it up anymore unless asked. When you're younger it's kicks and punches, when you're older it's just verbal assault.

I always get a odd feeling religious people are the most paranoid. But (maybe) that's why they need the rules more than others. Someone should look into that.

Complete network? Just have friends in our hobbies man.

My network is fine. tons of friends and married for years now. But some of us are trying to explain to you why those who are risk averse would be more inclined to organized religion. Decide to leave, and insular communities will completely ostracize you and cut you off. Jehovah's witnesses are notorious for this one. you will lose friends, you will lose family, you will be on your own until you build up a different network.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Are you Mormon?

If not, that's why you're not finding them. They're at church and Mormon events. That's were you would meet them. They're also gonna be on e-Harmony and not Tinder lol.

They want Mormon husbands.

Meh, maybe my atheist philosophy will play better when I move out of Utah.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

I gotta say entrement posts more interesting threads than the vast majority of posters on this forum. Well done. Now I'm gonna go read the article.

 

[entremet]

Meh, maybe my atheist philosophy will play better when I move out of Utah.

I would if you I were you. Bad combo. It's not impossible, but don't ignore demographics. They're powerful.

 

[Manmademan]

I would if you I were you. Bad combo. It's not impossible, but don't ignore demographics. They're powerful.

yep

 

[Eighty Deuce]

Just lie about a college degree, most people work in fields completely unrelated to their higher education.

 

[entremet]

Just lie about a college degree, most people work in fields completely unrelated to their higher education.

It's not so much about the degree. You can have a degree and be a jobless loser. Good luck getting a GF, unless you in Brad Pitt territory regarding looks, but that's like .01 percent of dudes.

It's that degree related jobs are the ones that confer a bias to women who are similar educated.