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Which Console is "Saved" More at E3: Vita or WiiU?
- Thread starter dude819
- Start date
licktheenvelope
Member
I have both... honestly the Vita announcements recently have me more excited than just Mario Kart and Smash...
shiftplusone
Member
vita doesn't need saving/is beyond saving depending on how you look at it
it'll never get the western support outside of indies, but games are being localized left and right. for me personally the vita is doing just fine
from the known quantities, the only thing saving the wii u for me is going to be bayonetta 2 / X release dates, and if either slips beyond 2014 then this system has nothing. Again, for me personally. I dont think Nintendo has anything else that would cause me to give a shit about giving the wii u any love
for the general populace, the wii u has the only chance of redemption. the vita is what it is and I dont expect Sony to give it anything
it'll never get the western support outside of indies, but games are being localized left and right. for me personally the vita is doing just fine
from the known quantities, the only thing saving the wii u for me is going to be bayonetta 2 / X release dates, and if either slips beyond 2014 then this system has nothing. Again, for me personally. I dont think Nintendo has anything else that would cause me to give a shit about giving the wii u any love
for the general populace, the wii u has the only chance of redemption. the vita is what it is and I dont expect Sony to give it anything
cj_iwakura
Member
Well, one of the systems is getting third party support. The other is the WiiU.
Ludicrous Speed
Banned
But not enough people care about the third party support for the Vita. In fact, only 10k people in the US cared in March. Seven times as many people cared about getting a console that only has Nintendo games. I think one is more important than the other to consumers.
Vita will never sell better. It's just a format that most people don't want anymore. A premium gaming-dedicated handheld? That market is basically dead. I absolutely love my Vita and have had one since the First Edition Bundle came out on Feb 15, 2012. I have a hundred native Vita games. But the truth is that it will never be big or popular. I can just hope that, in addition to the great indie games we continue to get, Sony will start putting a little more effort into getting some actual first-party games out there.
Wii U is a console. Consoles are huge. Right now it's a console with a lot of wrong direction, but it has some great games, and it's still in a market that is very big, so I think it has a lot more hope. Still not a LOT of hope, but more than Vita. I've discussed some things I think they can do, like getting rid of every trace of Wii, whether in name, or UI style, or Miis, or anything (except backwards compatibility), and doing a massive rebranding along with some more mature (what the 18-45 audience views as mature, like The Last of Us, Halo, Half-Life, Uncharted, Dead Space, etc.) games, as well as massively improved online functionality and a proper account system. The problem is, I don't think they're going to do any of that. I think the system will stick around at least for the next couple of years, but it too will never be completely saved or have a full turnaround.
Japan Studio is the only one we know of, and both of those games are collaborations! It's crazy. The first-party output for Vita is essentially 100% dead.
Wii U is a console. Consoles are huge. Right now it's a console with a lot of wrong direction, but it has some great games, and it's still in a market that is very big, so I think it has a lot more hope. Still not a LOT of hope, but more than Vita. I've discussed some things I think they can do, like getting rid of every trace of Wii, whether in name, or UI style, or Miis, or anything (except backwards compatibility), and doing a massive rebranding along with some more mature (what the 18-45 audience views as mature, like The Last of Us, Halo, Half-Life, Uncharted, Dead Space, etc.) games, as well as massively improved online functionality and a proper account system. The problem is, I don't think they're going to do any of that. I think the system will stick around at least for the next couple of years, but it too will never be completely saved or have a full turnaround.
Japan Studio is the only one we know of, and both of those games are collaborations! It's crazy. The first-party output for Vita is essentially 100% dead.
Right. I forgot that Sony only has one studio now and not a dozen that have never and will never make a game for the Vita.
Face it. When your biggest studios and biggest names say it's not worth the effort to support, no one else will either. Including consumers.
disastermouse
Banned
I think this post nails it. Vita is a not killing Sony. They can keep giving it a few major releases each year while third parties, Japanese developers, and indie shops keep putting out smaller titles or ports that can easily make back the money necessary to justify continued development. It's main competitor is a less capable system (3DS) in a shrinking market. Nintendo still haven't figured out how to do indie well, so they're missing out on a lot of low-effort games while their stable of franchises is rapidly growing stale. Vita also provides a good 'farm team' for small developers and indies to break bigger on the home console while becoming familiar with Sony's platforms and developer resources.
Nintendo HAS to resuscitate the Wii U this year or get going on a successor STAT. Their home console is what keeps the polish on their franchise apples, and if another whole generation slips by without a way to get their own franchises some visibility, they don't have much else to keep the company going because, once again, portables are a rapidly shrinking market. A niche market can be profitable if it caters well to the needs of the niche. It CAN'T be relied upon to carry the Nintendo stable, however. I remember the GameBoy being cool because 'I can play Mario and Zelda on a cheap portable machine!' I don't see it working the other way - I don't see it breaking a new franchise and carrying that franchise over to an underpowered console with insufficiently implemented on-line play infrastructure, and a poor online store with an arcane 'machine-associated' versus 'user-associated' assignment of purchased digital content.
Nintendo survived the GameCube because those franchises were still God-Tier - and they are arguably God-Tier now. They will be continually diluted this generation. Mario will be claiming his Social Security checks soon. Zelda is losing its way and motion controls didn't translate with Zelda as well as they did with the amazing Mario Galaxy games. Metroid - good lord, Nintendo, what the fuck is your problem developing a worthy Metroid? Mario Kart is an enjoyable group game but it's on its eighth iteration with very little innovation. Smash is definitely still God-Tier but it needs a platform and online infrastructure worthy of its awesomeness. The kids aren't playing Pokemon anymore, they're playing Minecraft or shitty buttonless mobile games. The Wii and motion controls along with VC breathed new life into these franchises, but instead of using that boosted capital to fucking learn HD development already and innovate some new franchises, they gained no new franchises at all. Third party has abandoned them completely so they have almost no shooters, no open world games, no MMO presence, their indie presence is getting off to a slow start, and they're abso-fucking-nowhere with VR.
Nintendo NEEDS stellar hardware. More than that, they need to do something very difficult. They need to invent a whole new genre of game. The only good news is that unlike Sony or Microsoft, they've actually DONE that before. More than once.
Can they do it again?
DrROBschiz
Member
Its a strategy shift man
It makes more sense for big teams to make big games for PS4
Small teams making games for Vita. They made the adjustment and its working.
All of the big japanese teams are focusing on Vita in Japan. Because the system makes more sense in the region.
The strategy is sound and it benefits users of those systems
Follow the crazy upcoming releases for Vita man. Its absolutely stellar.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Wii U.
They are at least in the running when it comes to the home consoles:
The Vita on the otherhand will forever trail behind the GOAT that is 3DS - especially once Smash 3DS hits the market in the next couple of months.
They are at least in the running when it comes to the home consoles:
Compared to Xbone's 5 million shipped, and PS4's 7 million sold.
The Vita on the otherhand will forever trail behind the GOAT that is 3DS - especially once Smash 3DS hits the market in the next couple of months.
Acquiescence
Member
Nintendo are far more likely to pay attention to the Wii U than Sony are to the Vita. The Vita's prospects are somehow even worse right now (10k in the NPD thread!), plus the PS4 is currently enjoying phenomenal success that Sony would rather focus on more I'm sure. And given their past history, Sony love to ignore the Vita at E3 anyway. I don't believe Nintendo will drop the Wii U relatively soon, and will still attempt to salvage some small success from it, so expect to see a decent amount of news and reveals of its games, whether it be via the form of a live conference or another Direct.
still holding out for Gravity Rush 2 to make an appearance this year
It's steller if you like niche RPGs and certain indie games for sure. And that's fine for Japan and I may even end up getting one some day.
That doesn't change the fact that that attitude has doomed the system in every other country to basically not even existing. As proven by last month's NPD numbers.
Dude it sold 10k in March, what do you expect.
D:
Edit: Oh I see you already addresed that, I should refresh before post!.
Yeah, but the difference is that it took the Wii U 13 MONTHS, to get to 5.8m, while it took XB1 four months to get to 5m. You could perhaps argue that they're "in the running", but that's a pretty weak argument when you look at the timeframes.
DrROBschiz
Member
OMG its not doomed
Do you guys even know what a doomed system looks like?
Definitely not one that has a jammed packed release schedule from now to 2016.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Which is a result of the Wii U having literally nothing worthwhile (to the greater audience) during that entire year lead, whereas XB1 has had four months packed with decent games and system sellers (Dead Rising, Titanfall, Forza, etc).
It's really only now that we're starting to see the Wii U system sellers, in the coming months in the form of Mk8 and Smash Wii U.
Nintendo are also in a better position to provide a price cut, whereas MS will probably want a few more sales before they start slashing the price.
It's "jam packed" for a very very very small audience and that audience will prevent it growing and gaining new experiences outside of that niche.
That is why it is doomed. It's not hard to see.
DrROBschiz
Member
So let me get this straight
10k in March from NPD is the end all be all?
- With a new model on the horizon.
- Several major trade shows left in the year
- Mountains of announced software coming weekly
So what?
Paracelsus
Member
By their very nature, neither can be saved. You could say both platforms are "unfortunate accidents".
E3 is a club. Nintendo being there again is likely an indication that they plan to play nice with this industry segment again in the near future.
Nintendo will still probably make a splash with it's games and ultimately won't change many minds of consumers; but I think for Nintendo, a success would be to reopen some doors they foolishly closed with the rest of this industry and win a few players in the mindshare back with a good show.
As said above, I don't see why Sony would "save" the Vita when there is so much gain to be made talking PS4.
Nintendo will still probably make a splash with it's games and ultimately won't change many minds of consumers; but I think for Nintendo, a success would be to reopen some doors they foolishly closed with the rest of this industry and win a few players in the mindshare back with a good show.
As said above, I don't see why Sony would "save" the Vita when there is so much gain to be made talking PS4.
DrROBschiz
Member
Im seriously not
The 5-6 million that do own the system buy tons of software
Therefore its a success. Its that simple. Growth will likely remain slow but steady.
Either way Sony has embraced the current trend the system has taken and all parties involved make money off of it.
I dont get how this is hard to grasp. Failed systems dont get software.
disastermouse
Banned
None of MS's games have yet proven to be system sellers. Titanfall hasn't proven to be a system seller and everything else is shiny-but-shitty (Ryse - a name straight outta the 90s), or a sequel. Titanfall is a one-off (the sequel will not be Xbox-only unless MS buys Respawn) and because it's online-only multiplayer, it's dead as soon as the community dies, which is what'll happen when the next MP powerhouse comes on the scene.
Uh Nintendo will obviously try to save the Wii U obviously at E3 more than Sony will try to save the Vita. That being said, Sony isn't going to just forget about the Vita but with the way things are going with the ps4 and since that momentum doesn't seem to be slowing down at all they don't really need to try and save it. Nintendo on the other hand will be in a world of hurt if they don't do something soon with the WiiU, I can tell you right now that Mario Kart and Smash Bros will not be enough to sell someone on a console that has little to no other good titles.
If we've learned anything of the years it's that consoles don't sell themselves, the games on those consoles are what sell the consoles.
If we've learned anything of the years it's that consoles don't sell themselves, the games on those consoles are what sell the consoles.
I'd hope it's associated with the fact that there has been literally no stock of Vita 1000s in the past month or so due to Sony pulling it out from stores so they can launch the 2000 (Conspiracy time: stores don't want more Vitas, so best guess is Sony bought back the 1000s, recycles them into Vita TVs, and ships 2000s out back to stores).
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Wii U certainly has more potential to be saved. Nintendo keeps their in-development games under wraps pretty well, so for all we know, Fall 2014 could be loaded. Zelda U on its own could be massive.
axisofweevils
Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I think Wii U will feature more in Nintendo's E3 than Vita will feature in Sony's.
Every E3 Sony's had, Vita owners came away disappointed. I remember the GAF posts saying that Sony mentioned TV more times than they mentioned the Vita during their conference last year. Now the PS4 is out and has almost certainly surpassed the Vita's lifetime sales already, I think it will get even less attention than before. ("Hey guys, you can use the Vita to play these awesome PS4 games with Remote Play" will be the most I expect.)
Every E3 Sony's had, Vita owners came away disappointed. I remember the GAF posts saying that Sony mentioned TV more times than they mentioned the Vita during their conference last year. Now the PS4 is out and has almost certainly surpassed the Vita's lifetime sales already, I think it will get even less attention than before. ("Hey guys, you can use the Vita to play these awesome PS4 games with Remote Play" will be the most I expect.)
disastermouse
Banned
Arguably Sony doesn't have a system seller, the system is selling itself and Sony's just throwing all and everything (forgive the tautology) it can at the system - better hardware, F2P, indies, PS+ games, MMOs, VR...I think that even a dead mouse simulator is coming to PS4.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
Nintendo has had several hugely successful IPs that got their start on their portable systems. Pokemon is the obvious big one there, but Brain Age was also huge, and Professor Layton has been a big success as well. If I'm not mistaken, Animal Crossing didn't really take off as a mega-blockbuster until the portable installments as well.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
Vita is what it is. The good thing about Vita is it doesn't need huge hardware sales to incentivize software development. The platform does well as a hand held port station. So even if we never get a Golden Abyss again, it will still get software support that most Vita owners really care about.
Wii U doesn't have that luxury, so it's important for Nintendo to provide AAA support to it as much as possible to keep it afloat and its userbase energized.
Wii U doesn't have that luxury, so it's important for Nintendo to provide AAA support to it as much as possible to keep it afloat and its userbase energized.
DrROBschiz
Member
Finally a sensible assessment
Because the Current Vita install base moves enough software to ensure its future. WiiU has the same potential honestly but its going to be for different reasons
Boss Man
Member
Thing is, Nintendo could pull something off that would save the Wii U. Like a true console Pokemon RPG, for example. They just won't. I don't think there's anything that could save the Vita as a standalone device (PS4 bundle might be attractive).
Either way, neither is going anywhere IMO.
Either way, neither is going anywhere IMO.
disastermouse
Banned
Pokemon IS the obvious example, but it's obvious because of its loneliness. Brain Age and Professor Layton were big on portable, but I don't think Brain Age and Professor Layton when I think 'Nintendo'. Who bought Brain Age and thought 'I really need to play this on my TV in my living room?' Abso-smurfly no one.
MikeE21286
Member
I don't think the Vita fortunes can be turned around. It really is what it is right now.
Companion platform to the PlayStation "ecosystem"
Companion platform to the PlayStation "ecosystem"
disastermouse
Banned
Does it need to be more than that?
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The Vita is selling more in Japan than the WiiU is selling in the US and Japan combined on monthly basis. Where is that WiiU game board about what will save the WiiU next? 2 massive games, like NSMB and DKCR right? And FYI the WiiU is not just bad its a catastrophe for a home console, and it is losing them money. At least the Vita is profitable.
DrROBschiz
Member
I dont think so!
I am perfectly happy and actually surprised at the support and software Vita has and what is coming in the future
You guys are truly missing out by dismissing it. If you have a PS4 and PS Plus grab one on the cheap and give it a go
You will be surprised too
The Game Gear got games until 6 years after its release. I don't think you'll find anyone here saying that the Game Gear was a success. The way Vita sales are going, they're likely the end up on similar LTD numbers too. The Vita is a great system, but the sooner people accept that it's not successful, the better. Enjoy it for what it is, not for its sales.
NotMyRealName
Banned
I could see myself buying a Vita at the right price point. Maybe if they ditched the proprietary memory cards, or upped the consoles internal storage. idk
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
The WiiU is dead as well and vita is getting plenty of quality software.
It seems to me that both are. In that case why does it have to matter that they are "dead"? They will feel alive plenty to me when I'm playing Danganronpa 2 and Bayonetta 2 later this year. This whole "dead" and "alive" business is nothing more and less than petty fanboy drivel. I get sales-age part of it all but the mentality seems to be leaking. You could argue that in the end it will matter when software supports starts dieing but at the moment it doesn't seem like such an immediate concern.
No, it isn't. There is a world outside of the US.