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[Raonak]

Metal Gear has a lot of dumb shit. The way it manages to balance science, history and philosophy with a batshit insane anime plot is actually why it's so great.

Explaining vamp as nanomachines was the pretty ludicrous. I absolutely love MGS4, it's my favorite game of all time, but saying using nano's to explain a vampire who took bullets to the head and walked on water was unnecessary for a series with ghosts, psychics, and people who can deflect bullets.


But really, the most ludicrous was the fact that solid snake is a clone of big boss. In no way was this plot point even hinted at during MG1 or MG2. And only brought up in MGS1 the first time.

 

[Banana Aeon]

i



christ

The memories! They're rushing back!

I thought I purged everything from Portable Ops!

 

[RELIGHT]

He's bisexual. Still don't see the relevance

 

[LoserMakesGood]

Not a plot twist as all the good ones have been mentioned but something that always bothered the hell out of me.

In MGS4 at the end of Act 4 Raiden cuts off his right arm in order to save Snake

In Act 5 Raiden shows up with no arms with no explanation of why his perfectly good left arm is now gone.

 

[Banana Aeon]

Not a plot twist as all the good ones have been mentioned but something that always bothered the hell out of me.

In MGS4 at the end of Act 4 Raiden cuts off his right arm in order to save Snake

In Act 5 Raiden shows up with no arms with no explanation of why his perfectly good left arm is now gone.

Well duh, he cut off his left arm to save himself.

I mean, that makes sense. Self harm is the key to survival in the Metal Gear world.

 

[NateDog]

Every time I think about finally tracking down Portable Ops and playing it (it's the only (barely) canon game I haven't played) I hear some shit like this and I'm glad Kojima left all its plot points buried where they belong.

Portable Ops had some questionable shit (namely that, although that was because that was "the untold chapter of Big Boss' life" or some stupid shit which still amazingly isn't finished after 3 releases but might be after the fourth. But Portable Ops had some good stuff too, Gene was a great character. Then there's stuff like the Sokolov ghost so yeah. Don't expect anything amazing, but I remember the good from the game and if the camera wasn't so poor I would have been able to enjoy it a lot more than Peace Walker (then again PW is shit so yeah).

 

[Mifec]

To be honest, I went on complete auto-pilot in Portable Ops the moment that Snake had to fight Pinhead from Hellraiser with ice powers and it was revealed that the main villain's super power was literally having Steve Blum/Norio Wakamoto as a voice.

Let's be real here' having the voice of Norio Wakamoto should be considered a superpower.

 

[doofy102]

The cast of MGS3 are the Patriots. I never liked that. Ruined MGS4 for me.

Yeah. There was nothing even fun about that twist. It just sucked ass.

 

[PooBone]

There's ACTUALLY a third son of big boss.

Spoiler

The motherfucking president of the united states. *eyeroll*

 

[akidnamededdy]

There's ACTUALLY a third son of big boss.

Spoiler

The motherfucking president of the united states. *eyeroll*

Yeah even in a game starring Raiden, Solidus felt kind of like the Scrappy Doo of the Metal Gear universe.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

There's ACTUALLY a third son of big boss.

Spoiler

The motherfucking president of the united states. *eyeroll*

Who looks like doctor Octopus...

 

[Velkyn]

I'm going to have to say pretty much the entire plot of MGS2, with shout outs to Vamp for being a fucking VAMPIRE in a military stealth action game. Kojima, shine on you crazy diamond

 

[ref]

Vamp, the whole Johnny/Meryl stuff in MGS4, and anything to do with Liquid Ocelot....

 

[DrGonzo615]

Just about everything post MGS1.

This is the biggest reason why im a bit gun-shy about MGSV. The game looks awesome but Im afraid its going to be the same bat-shit crazy convoluted bullshit from the last few games.

Kojima is a bad story teller. He just adds convoluted layers on to the story until he has something that resembles a plot and uses painfully long winded exposition dumps to explain it. After MGS1, it really feels like he just surrounded himself with yes men that agreed to any insane bullshit he wanted to throw in there.

 

[akidnamededdy]

I'm going to have to say pretty much the entire plot of MGS2, with shout outs to Vamp for being a fucking VAMPIRE in a military stealth action game. Kojima, shine on you crazy diamond

The whole reasoning behind his name was bizarre too. "This guy is called Vamp because sometimes he prefers to poke dudes, all the vampire stuff he does is just a lucky coincidence."

 

[jrush64]

Everything about MGS4. Completely ruined Snake and Raiden for me. Almost ruined the series for me.

 

[NCell]

Just about everything post MGS1.

This is the biggest reason why im a bit gun-shy about MGSV. The game looks awesome but Im afraid its going to be the same bat-shit crazy convoluted bullshit from the last few games.

Kojima is a bad story teller. He just adds convoluted layers on to the story until he has something that resembles a plot and uses painfully long winded exposition dumps to explain it. After MGS1, it really feels like he just surrounded himself with yes men that agreed to any insane bullshit he wanted to throw in there.

MGS3 isn't convoluted and is one if not the most liked game in the franchise, MGS2 is convoluted because of its nature, a reflection of what it means to make a sequel. MGS4 is the real convoluted game and that's because of fans demanding an ending to Solid Snake, that's not Kojima's fault.

 

[Snatch1414]

Just about everything post MGS1.

This is the biggest reason why im a bit gun-shy about MGSV. The game looks awesome but Im afraid its going to be the same bat-shit crazy convoluted bullshit from the last few games.

Kojima is a bad story teller. He just adds convoluted layers on to the story until he has something that resembles a plot and uses painfully long winded exposition dumps to explain it. After MGS1, it really feels like he just surrounded himself with yes men that agreed to any insane bullshit he wanted to throw in there.

I'm in the same boat but the game just looks too good. I would welcome a more down to earth story though. The graphics and voice work are great. It'll be weird if characters start meowing or shooting lightning from their hands.

As far as the storytelling, come on people these games are nonsensical on a good day. There's no ultra-layered sensible plot underneath it all it's just plain nuts.

 

[Sephzilla]

Metal Gear Solid 2's whole "Mind control from an arm-graph" thing was ludicrous in a very bad way. Metal Gear Solid 4 retconning that into something else was better.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

Without a doubt

Spoiler

when you realize that the Liquid armed son of a medium Revolver Ocelot was actually too spiritually sensitive and Liquid was thwarting his grand master plan to use Snake as Patriot bait as Shadow Moses proved that with Liquid Snake the Patriot algorithm would send Solid Snake to eliminate the threat, and only Solid Snake had the cunning to defeat the Patriots.

Also, he removed Liquids arm, hypnotized himself to believe Liquid was still in his head, because Liquids latent goals were overtaking Revolvers desire to end the Patriots.

Metal Gear Solid 2's whole "Mind control from an arm-graph" thing was ludicrous in a very bad way. Metal Gear Solid 4 retconning that into something else was better.

To be honest I liked it as soon as I played 3 and realized who were Ocelots parents.

 

[Host Samurai]

Liquid Ocelot being retconed sucked. Espically since it was obvious that Kojima had other plans for the entire Liquid Snake taking over Ocelots body by having Cam Clarke still voice Liquid in 2. I feel like Kojima sold out and didn't step up the MGS2 crazy like he originally wanted to because if backlash.

Liquid Snake should have been the final battle in the series.

 

[Sub_Level]

Liquid Ocelot being retconed sucked. Espically since it was obvious that Kojima had other plans for the entire Liquid Snake taking over Ocelots body by having Cam Clarke still voice Liquid in 2. I feel like Kojima sold out and didn't step up the MGS2 crazy like he originally wanted to because if backlash.

Liquid Snake should have been the final battle in the series.

I agree with your sentiment 100% but I hate to tell you: In the Japanese version Liquid Ocelot was voiced by Ocelot's voice actor. He died and in the Japanese version of MGS4, Oceliquid was voiced by Liquid's voice actor.

It's all jacked up. It's hard to say what Kojima intended.

To be honest I liked it as soon as I played 3 and realized who were Ocelots parents.

Same here. MGS3 retroactively helped out MGS2 a little bit, also with setting the foundation for the Patriots.

Spoiler

Although I liked it as soon as I heard Cam Clarke's voice.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

Just about everything post MGS1.

This is the biggest reason why im a bit gun-shy about MGSV. The game looks awesome but Im afraid its going to be the same bat-shit crazy convoluted bullshit from the last few games.

Kojima is a bad story teller. He just adds convoluted layers on to the story until he has something that resembles a plot and uses painfully long winded exposition dumps to explain it. After MGS1, it really feels like he just surrounded himself with yes men that agreed to any insane bullshit he wanted to throw in there.

Just do what I'm doing: play MGSV solely for the gameplay. MGS4 and PW nuked any care I had for the story.

Metal Gear Solid 2's whole "Mind control from an arm-graph" thing was ludicrous in a very bad way. Metal Gear Solid 4 retconning that into something else was better.

No, MGS3 subtly explaining the Liquid/Ocelot thing by making Ocelot's father a spirit medium was better.

 

[Sheriff_Battlesnake]

No, MGS3 subtly explaining the Liquid/Ocelot thing by making Ocelot's father a spirit medium was better.

The Liquid arm thing was real. It did poison the well. Then he removed it and gave himself hypnosis because he himself still needed to believe he was Liquid so the Patriots would still believe he was Liquid and send Solid Snake.

MGS is weird. Also that guy shitting over there plays a major role somehow.

 

[TwoDurans]

Gotta agree with OP. For how vital an entry to the series it is, PW had some batshit insane plot points.

Spoiler

Miller's a traitor, Paz is a traitor, The Boss is an AI?

What the what?!?!

I still don't understand why Big Boss was cool with

Spoiler

Miller after finding out he was working for Cypher

.

 

[The Last One]

How Big Boss survived after MG2? Seriously...

 

[Zach]

I think it's impressive the lengths he went though to dress up for a radio conversation. Like, he goes in his little room, does his hair, puts on the sunglasses and waits for Snake to call him over the radio and then talks back while dressed up. For a radio. And then he does the reveal. Over radio.

Haha...

 

[Sub_Level]

How Big Boss survived after MG2? Seriously...

They kept him in stasis using Beauty & Beast tech along with using parts from Liquid and Solidus (presumably just skin tissue from Solidus since his corpse limbs were still intact)

 

[Unknown One]

The character Big Boss. Seriously he was named that way because he was suppose to be the final boss. Now it has spiraled into something absurd to get rid of Solid Snake. Big Boss has defeated Solid Snake by taking the role of main character and being almost a carbon copy of Solid Snake. Stole his role and "identity".

 

[DrGonzo615]

MGS3 isn't convoluted and is one if not the most liked game in the franchise, MGS2 is convoluted because of its nature, a reflection of what it means to make a sequel. MGS4 is the real convoluted game and that's because of fans demanding an ending to Solid Snake, that's not Kojima's fault.

I agree that MGS3 is actually pretty tame when it comes to convoluted plots, but I dont understand your arguments why MGS2 and MGS4 are not Kojimas fault. He could have taken the sequels in any direction. He chose to see how far down the rabbit hole he could go with the series, and by god, he found the bottom.

Why does the end of Solid Snake have to include a hour and a half exposition dump ending? and a cringe-worthy relationship between the guy who shits himself in MGS1 and Meryl? Theres decisions made at the fundamental core of the story that are just bad.

 

[BumRush]

Don't have a specific answer...just wanted to say that I love the MGS games, but even though I have played all 4 (haven't played PW) I still don't really have a clue what is happening and why it's happening. It goes beyond all normal reasoning.

 

[Sendero]

The character Big Boss. Seriously he was named that way because he was suppose to be the final boss. Now it has spiraled into something absurd to get rid of Solid Snake. Big Boss has defeated Solid Snake by taking the role of main character and being almost a carbon copy of Solid Snake. Stole his role and "identity".

Indeed, but the one I liked the most.

There is no denying that MGS 1, truly made the franchise what it is. And thus it should have marked Solid Snake as the main character. But then, Kojima does a Darth Vader, and suddenly, the whole story is about Big Boss (which in turns, was a lesser intelligent version than The Boss) raise and fall.

BTW, I just saw the movie version of Peace Walker, and can't believe it: So, in MGSV, BB is going to repeat pretty much what he did there? Reuse the AI, reuse the PW design, create another Mother and Forward Operation Bases, reuse the russian arm, not-Paz, not-Chico

Spoiler

lol

, remind us about Outer Heaven, etc?

At least he had the decency of changing MSF to Diamond Dogs (but somehow the former still remains or is recreated later?).

Also, noticed that in PW, they constantly repeat a saying that goes: The fox out jumps the lazy dog, or something.

 

[Zach]

I know a lot of people love 2, but that's just because they're wrong. Hideo Kojima is the person for whom the words "pretentious" and "overwrought" were invented.

Oh, please.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I didn't really understand Ocelot's role in 3. If he was with the US all the time, then why did he do his best to kill Snake throughout the game?

 

[Alienous]

I didn't really understand Ocelot's role in 3. If he was with the US all the time, then why did he do his best to kill Snake throughout the game?

Because he loves him.

 

[Killing_Joke]

All of these crazy twist and pure stupidness is reason why i love MGS so much. What i hated was so many stupid fans demanded answers and Kojima had to stupidly answer them.

- Vamp = nanomachines. Needed no explanation whatsoever since the series is filled with weirdos. I could live with Naomi creating him, but having such a stupid weakness ruined the character. The hardcore way to finish him off would have a been a decapitation. Too gory sure but would fit the situation.

- Ocelot arm. I actually loved it in MGS2. It was so fucking crazy and weird but since so many people either hated it for demanded answers, Kojima couldn't let it rock. As soon as you find out Sorrow was his father, boom there's the answer. Made sense. But since for whatever reason he had such a turn on turning MGS3 characters "good guys" the whole thing was a trick on the Patriots. Which really makes no sense. I also hate the fact he DID change into Liquid but removed it post MGS2. wtf!!! It's really hard to come up with a decent story to begin with but i think he had too many ideas going off in his head and went with a boring safe answer. I would have rather have the arm did take over Ocelot and really was Liquid the whole time.

-MGS3 characters are the Patriots. Had zero payoff (no pun intended). Of course that's what PW and MGSV is going to fix, but at the time it was straight up garbage. They ever so slightly give you a hint in Portable Ops, but it still wasn't enough.

That's about it i think. Big Boss resurrection was also stupid but the last seconds sorta made it worth it. Just felt rushed and stupidly explained.

 

[Zach]

You know, I have to wonder what kind of crazy I am considering that, after years of playing and replaying these games, I can follow the story pretty much perfectly. Like I'll admit some of the plot stuff is fucking ridiculous, but at no point I ever felt a "Ok no fuck you" kind of moment with the plot or its twists.

Then again I can also follow the Kingdom Hearts plot near perfectly too.

I just revel in the ridiculousness of it all.

"That's fucking ridiculous. Tell me more"

Pretty much this.

 

[Cathcart]

Not a plot twist as all the good ones have been mentioned but something that always bothered the hell out of me.

In MGS4 at the end of Act 4 Raiden cuts off his right arm in order to save Snake

In Act 5 Raiden shows up with no arms with no explanation of why his perfectly good left arm is now gone.

I think the other arm was ruined when he used it to stop a boat, lol.

 

[Psyrgery ES]

I know a lot of people love 2, but that's just because they're wrong. Hideo Kojima is the person for whom the words "pretentious" and "overwrought" were invented.

/salutes with teardrop

I decided to gave up on the series after playing MGS2 because I thought I was too dumb for those games or Hideo was being just too insane about their plots.

Now I want to play 3 and PW because I complrted GZ and I utterly Loved it so much that I want to play PP, and I am worried about what kind of insanities await me in those games.

 

[cat litter]

When Raiden stole Gray Foxs identity

 

[PsionBolt]

it was revealed that the main villain's super power was literally having Steve Blum/Norio Wakamoto as a voice.

Wait what!? I want that as a superpower! Do I get both!? I'd settle for just Wakamoto, but if I could have both this might surpass flight and telekinesis on my most wanted superpowers list.

 

[Unknown One]

All of these crazy twist and pure stupidness is reason why i love MGS so much. What i hated was so many stupid fans demanded answers and Kojima had to stupidly answer them.

- Vamp = nanomachines. Needed no explanation whatsoever since the series is filled with weirdos. I could live with Naomi creating him, but having such a stupid weakness ruined the character. The hardcore way to finish him off would have a been a decapitation. Too gory sure but would fit the situation.

- Ocelot arm. I actually loved it in MGS2. It was so fucking crazy and weird but since so many people either hated it for demanded answers, Kojima couldn't let it rock. As soon as you find out Sorrow was his father, boom there's the answer. Made sense. But since for whatever reason he had such a turn on turning MGS3 characters "good guys" the whole thing was a trick on the Patriots. Which really makes no sense. I also hate the fact he DID change into Liquid but removed it post MGS2. wtf!!! It's really hard to come up with a decent story to begin with but i think he had too many ideas going off in his head and went with a boring safe answer. I would have rather have the arm did take over Ocelot and really was Liquid the whole time.

-MGS3 characters are the Patriots. Had zero payoff (no pun intended). Of course that's what PW and MGSV is going to fix, but at the time it was straight up garbage. They ever so slightly give you a hint in Portable Ops, but it still wasn't enough.

That's about it i think. Big Boss resurrection was also stupid but the last seconds sorta made it worth it. Just felt rushed and stupidly explained.

I found the fan complaints absurd. They complain about Vamp being immortal, yet can swallow a man controlling bees, an electric man, a photosynthetic man who can feel and see with the forest, a ghost spirit, and etc.

In a way MGS3 had more absurd powers than 2. MGS2 has Vamp, possessed Ocelot, and Fortune being lucky.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

Big Boss and Major Zero appearing at the end of MGS4...

 

[Dremark]

I agree that MGS3 is actually pretty tame when it comes to convoluted plots, but I dont understand your arguments why MGS2 and MGS4 are not Kojimas fault. He could have taken the sequels in any direction. He chose to see how far down the rabbit hole he could go with the series, and by god, he found the bottom.

Why does the end of Solid Snake have to include a hour and a half exposition dump ending? and a cringe-worthy relationship between the guy who shits himself in MGS1 and Meryl? Theres decisions made at the fundamental core of the story that are just bad.

MGS3 has plenty of convoluted stuff too but the base story is easy to understand so people give it a pass. Pretty much all the stuff involving Eva, Ocelot and the Patriots is as convoluted as anything else in the series and it has it's fair share of ridiculous stuff too.

 

[Liquidsnake]

Ocelot

Spoiler

not actually being controlled by Liquid, he fucking hypnotized himself to think he was Liquid? wtf?

Yeah this was a little too much.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

A guy shooting bees is pretty high up there I think.

 

[RustyNails]

Liquid Ocelot is seriously the dumbest shit ever in a gaming medium. Kojima must be stopped.

 

[Dremark]

I found the fan complaints absurd. They complain about Vamp being immortal, yet can swallow a man controlling bees, an electric man, a photosynthetic man who can feel and see with the forest, a ghost spirit, and etc.

In a way MGS3 had more absurd powers than 2. MGS2 has Vamp, possessed Ocelot, and Fortune being lucky.

I had more of an issue with them basically retconning Vamp's powers to Nanomachines then I did with him having the powers or the initial explanation for it. It's basically the same thing as the liquid ocelot thing, they have something super natural then changed it to something farfetched after.

Overall though I agree with what you're saying though.

 

[mcarlie]

Besides Ocelot/Liquid:

Spoiler

Big Boss being alive at the end of MGS4

 

[BrianRoyale]

Never watch a Bond movie.

I'd imagine if she was from a Bond movie her name would have been Jail Bait.