ManDudeChild
Member
Well, if that's how it works and the dark side keeps popping up, sounds like the force needs to try something that isn't chemo.
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Why did the force decide to create Anakin?
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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Well, if that's how it works and the dark side keeps popping up, sounds like the force needs to try something that isn't chemo.
Kor of Memory
Member
Can you link this instead of posting a picture with text on it like it's proof?
autumnleaf
Member
There is nothing in there that says the Force has a will that tends towards the light.
Like I said before, the Sith are a poison on the Force and Anakin is created to act as an antibody. The key point though is he is conceived by the midichlorians, not the Force. This is what the Force is
"Well, the Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us; it binds the galaxy together."
"Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."
The Force is an energy field not some dude with a white beard sat in the clouds who wants the good guys to win. It's an energy field that certain people can manipulate and certain groups interpret it in different ways.
He wrote most of it in 1976
Your right, from a certain point of view - OT Obi, Empire speaking to Luke about his Father.
Good Job Bob
Member
It was the willy of The Force.
But don't the Sith have their own prophecy?
Who's to say which is the 'correct' interpretation?
Netherscourge
Banned
Because when it comes to Hollywood, it's profitable to watch a young, sweet kid turn into a fucking monster.
Mr. Poolman
Member
I agree with you.
Having read drafts, it was garbage then too.
Lucas was lucky back then to have a ton of editors, producers, actors, even his own wife rewriting his stuff to make even the faintest of sense.
I mean... good grief... It's a MIRACLE Star Wars turned out as good as it did.
obin_gam
Member
Jake Lloyd?
BackLogJoe
Member
Dashit.
Lol.
Lol.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Lucas' wife completely saved the film.
I can see the scene now when he calls to someone and they ask:
"What, Dashit?"
I thought it might have been someone just having a laugh with the wiki but...
nope! Cos Dashit was real.
Having only light side without dark side is the exact antithesis of "balance".
My personal take on the whole thing is that it was actually the dark side that was unbalanced, not the Force itself. The Jedi simply never understood what the prophecy actually meant. Light could fall to the dark, but dark couldn't fall to the light. You never saw the Emperor warning Vader away from puppies and rainbows for fear of falling to the light side. Forever will it dominate your destiny, and all that... it was a one-way ticket, and there was no way back. Ever.
Until Anakin.
The most powerful Force user who ever lived, created for the express purpose of falling to the dark side (makes ROTS all the more tragic when you realize he didn't have a choice), and then coming back. Thus breaking whatever permanent hold the dark side had up to that point and allowing people to actually go both ways.
Interestingly, this theory appears to hold up in Episode VII, with Kylo Ren saying that he "feels the pull to the light". Something I imagine no dark side user ever felt before. It's ironic that he has his grandfather to thank for that, although I don't think he realizes it.
My personal take on the whole thing is that it was actually the dark side that was unbalanced, not the Force itself. The Jedi simply never understood what the prophecy actually meant. Light could fall to the dark, but dark couldn't fall to the light. You never saw the Emperor warning Vader away from puppies and rainbows for fear of falling to the light side. Forever will it dominate your destiny, and all that... it was a one-way ticket, and there was no way back. Ever.
Until Anakin.
The most powerful Force user who ever lived, created for the express purpose of falling to the dark side (makes ROTS all the more tragic when you realize he didn't have a choice), and then coming back. Thus breaking whatever permanent hold the dark side had up to that point and allowing people to actually go both ways.
Interestingly, this theory appears to hold up in Episode VII, with Kylo Ren saying that he "feels the pull to the light". Something I imagine no dark side user ever felt before. It's ironic that he has his grandfather to thank for that, although I don't think he realizes it.
ManDudeChild
Member
Without context, one could easily mistake this for a list of rejected names for some unpublished Dr. Deuss book.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Its all about bringing balance to the force, it was all out of wack sio anakin was suppose to be a big reset button, how he was going to do it was up in the air but ultimately he was going to complete his goal
Bro i hate to tell you, but the force is sentient.
And Anakin was extremely powerful the movies just did a shitty job of showing it.
If he never lost his limbs he would have been the most powerful Jedi easily
Ordinaryundone
Member
Nah, the Sith have always had trouble with any sort of unity or organization; infighting and survival of the fittest is one of their core tenets after all and it's one of the reasons for the Rule of Two. Sith Empires and Orders have been attempted but they never work out all that well.
As a result if you get 100 Sith in a room and ask them any sort of philosophical question regarding the Force you'll likely get 100 different answers (as well as an argument and probably some bloodshed). Individualism is the core belief and as a result it's more likely that any given Sith would believe THEY were a chosen one rather than prophesizing some other one.
As for why the Jedi are right that's mostly because the proof is in the pudding. Areas and people strong in the Light Side are healthy and vibrant while the opposite holds true for the Dark. Even down to the flora and fauna. Sith might deny the corruption but it's written all over their faces, in some cases quite literally.
LegendofLex
Member
The mistake people are making is buying into the idea that the "light side" and the "dark side" are actual properties of the Force that are supposed to exist in harmony.
As far as I can tell, there's just the Force (which has sentient and cosmic influences), and there are people who use it in various ways. Some try to be in tune with it, others try to bend it to their will.
The latter has a corrupting influence, and the Force will inevitably work through its control over all things to balance that corrupting influence out.
IMO as far as I can tell the fact that dark side users are always allied with Space Nazi empires is supposed to be a clue about the validity of their worldviews.
Hyperactivity
Banned
EDIT: Wait apparently I'm way off
I don't mind the idea of the Force having a will, that was an idea from ANH when Obi-Wan said it partially guides your actions. I just hate this thing of the Force "willing" Space Jesus into existence, it's painfully unsubtle and cheapens the story.
The One and Done
Member
Jesus man. I didn't realize this immaculate conception bs was true. Gives a whole new meaning to being seduced by the Force.
I don't understand why people are still trying to make sense of the prequels. They were completely terrible movies that ruined the entire Star Wars mythology. There was zero point to them except to make money. That's the answer actually: the force created Anakin to make George Lucas richer.
AbsolutTimo
Banned
He killed him, right after he was appointed the new chancelor. During aotc.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
It gets even more complicated with Qui-Gon Jinn's unique philosophy regarding the Force in TPM. It's supposed to be a different philosophy than the normal Jedi's and the Sith's, but I'm pretty sure it's been completely ignored in all subsequent episodes.
None of it is canon so it's beside the point but in the Plagueis story he killed him during TPM. He was made chancellor during TPM.
Raven117
Gold Member
That's kinda how I figured it as well.
Zeus The Dino
Member
Its funny when people spend hours trying to explain a shitty script
LookAtMeGo
Member
The force is just the holy spirit and Anakin was supposed to be space Jesus.
SaganIsGOAT
Junior Member
this is real?
Adam_Vania
Banned
i like how this is a question rather than "Why is it necessary to show us Jar Jar stepping in shit?"
What? It's the basis of how to become a Force ghost. Yoda admits he was wrong and becomes Qui Gon's apprentice.
True. People think of the Light and Dark sides as a ying yang sort of scenario, which is not really the case.
There is simply The Force.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
So that's the only point of it? They made it seem like it was a huge philosophy with revolutionary concepts and whatnot, but the only consequence/application is the Force ghost thing? :/ They could have just said Qui-Gon invented a technique or something.
Anakin didn't even learn it and he became a ghost just fine.
The Clone Wars also introduced Sith ghosts if I recall correctly.
Hyperactivity
Banned
Ok, so if light side is inherently balance, the contradiction would be that the users of the force are all sentient life forms that are going to tend towards personal gain, and thus tend towards the dark side. "Human" nature is the counterbalance to the force that so often leads to the dark side of the force.
The light side of the force is a state of harmony and balance, and the jedi strive towards that path, but just their mere existence as sentient individual lifeforms first, and jedi afterwards, contradicts with the path they want to follow.
This is why Anakin being older was more important: he had more time on his own.
Why was the old Jedi Order messed up, and need of balancing? I suppose, the more individuals, both jedi and sith, there are, the more variables that can work towards personal gain, whether it be minor or major in its severity. But to counteract individual desire, "humans" inevitably create institutions and attempt to get closer towards collective thought, however the very action of creating institutions that need to be so large that they span the galaxy and can identify any and all force-sensitive people would require more individuals which creates that instability. The old Jedi Order being so large would be the issue, and this was less a situation of a presence of sith that was an issue so much as the sum of all the minor individual desires among the Jedi.
Thus Anakin kills them all off to get rid of that sum total, then kills himself and Palpatine, as Sith inherently screw up the balance, and Luke tries to reestablish a new Jedi Order that can grow and locate force-sensitive beings across the galaxy so as to train them away from pursuit of their own selfish desires, etc. etc.
Mind you, I'm not that big on Star Wars, I'm just taking the given situation and expanding on it. Lucas essentially gets an infinite number of cycles and stories to work with, and the story is just about human nature, like many other stories, special counteracting galactic sentience called the "Force" be damned.
The light side of the force is a state of harmony and balance, and the jedi strive towards that path, but just their mere existence as sentient individual lifeforms first, and jedi afterwards, contradicts with the path they want to follow.
This is why Anakin being older was more important: he had more time on his own.
Why was the old Jedi Order messed up, and need of balancing? I suppose, the more individuals, both jedi and sith, there are, the more variables that can work towards personal gain, whether it be minor or major in its severity. But to counteract individual desire, "humans" inevitably create institutions and attempt to get closer towards collective thought, however the very action of creating institutions that need to be so large that they span the galaxy and can identify any and all force-sensitive people would require more individuals which creates that instability. The old Jedi Order being so large would be the issue, and this was less a situation of a presence of sith that was an issue so much as the sum of all the minor individual desires among the Jedi.
Thus Anakin kills them all off to get rid of that sum total, then kills himself and Palpatine, as Sith inherently screw up the balance, and Luke tries to reestablish a new Jedi Order that can grow and locate force-sensitive beings across the galaxy so as to train them away from pursuit of their own selfish desires, etc. etc.
Mind you, I'm not that big on Star Wars, I'm just taking the given situation and expanding on it. Lucas essentially gets an infinite number of cycles and stories to work with, and the story is just about human nature, like many other stories, special counteracting galactic sentience called the "Force" be damned.
Monocle
Member
It was at least strongly implied in the RotS opera scene, and further explored in the novel Plagueis (which is suprisingly decent but no longer canon).
Shmi's virgin birth is canon, as she informs Qui Gon about it in person in TPM.
these are not jedi ghosts or sith ghosts, they are force ghosts, they are one with the force
or something
also anakin learned it because he walked both paths, and returned from the dark to the light side? or something?
QuantumZebra
Member
That's like... literally the story
The entire point is the Jedi had the prophecy wrong the whole time... balance meant the end of both the Sith AND the Jedi.
Things needed a reboot, essentially.
Only Jedi can return to the Force because they let it "flow" around them instead of controlling and corrupting it the way the Sith did.
And only certain Jedi can do that - Qui-Gon Jinn actually learned how to from an ancient holocron (think holo-book) and he was the first in a long time to be a "force ghost" ... he taught it to Obi-Wan, Yoda, Anakin, etc...
Sith or dark-side users can have "ghosts" as well, but they are different, in a sense, and are almost always locked to an object, IE Holocron, Lightsaber, location (the cave on Dagoba was where a great dark side user died), etc..
LegendofLex
Member
The problem with your formula is that the canon reason why the Force was out of balance was simply that there was an extreme actor using it to fuck up and control the entire galaxy in the form of Palpatine.
It wasn't explicitly to do with the Jedi Order needing to be balanced out, although the Order wasn't exactly perfect, and problems within the Order contributed to Palpatine's rise and were a prime motivator for Anakin making his initial choice to follow the dark side path before his son brought him back to his senses.
Hyperactivity
Banned
So basically, the cyclical nature of the force isn't that the Jedi and Sith have to be at equal numbers, but that:
1) Balanced force requires jedi to promote it, follow in its path, and a lack of sith
2) Jedi required by force to work for the force, and not act for personal gain
3) Jedi are "human" (shorthand for sentient beings), and human nature tends towards acting for self-gain
Thus
4) To suppress such tendencies, humans need greater institutions to work as a collective
5) Institutions also needed to locate those force-sensitive humans to prevent them going off on their own and acting in their self-interest
But
6) Larger institution needed to grow larger, and larger, etc.
7) Institution locating more kids means more humans in institution
8) More humans creates more possibility of minor deviance in the force, at the very least. And compared to untrained force-sensitives, these jedi are trained in using the force.
9) Because the force is essentially a state of zero, but the perfectly controlled jedi is merely at that zero, there is no "above zero" super jedi to counter all the minor deviations.
Thus
10) Large numbers of humans need to go
11) Only Sith will kill Jedi
12) Sith inherently create imbalance in force, so there's still imbalance after the jedi genocide.
13) Remaining Jedi kill Sith.
Rinse and repeat
It's a basic institution vs human nature sort of thing
1) Balanced force requires jedi to promote it, follow in its path, and a lack of sith
2) Jedi required by force to work for the force, and not act for personal gain
3) Jedi are "human" (shorthand for sentient beings), and human nature tends towards acting for self-gain
Thus
4) To suppress such tendencies, humans need greater institutions to work as a collective
5) Institutions also needed to locate those force-sensitive humans to prevent them going off on their own and acting in their self-interest
But
6) Larger institution needed to grow larger, and larger, etc.
7) Institution locating more kids means more humans in institution
8) More humans creates more possibility of minor deviance in the force, at the very least. And compared to untrained force-sensitives, these jedi are trained in using the force.
9) Because the force is essentially a state of zero, but the perfectly controlled jedi is merely at that zero, there is no "above zero" super jedi to counter all the minor deviations.
Thus
10) Large numbers of humans need to go
11) Only Sith will kill Jedi
12) Sith inherently create imbalance in force, so there's still imbalance after the jedi genocide.
13) Remaining Jedi kill Sith.
Rinse and repeat
It's a basic institution vs human nature sort of thing
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