-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why It's Important to Recognize That "Moonlight" Was Robbed Of Its Moment
- Thread starter Korey
- Start date
- Status
Frozenprince
Banned
You don't have to agree with the entire thing to see that even something like this could impact people.
Not everything is being called slurs in the streets.
Not everything is being called slurs in the streets.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
"The way it was handled" suggested that the mistake was a deliberate one, something that the "white people" planned to downplay the achievement gotten by Moonlight for its best picture.
That's what people has been pointing at as reaching. You are being irrationally angry over nothing, and worse, you immediately characterize people who disagree with you or may see things differently as the worst kind of people that hated "negro people" for no apparent reason whatsoever.
I think no sane people would disagree about the difficulty minorities have to be acknowledged in Hollywood or to downplay it.
You know, that actually was completely stolen from both women. No one remembers who either of them were, all they remember is that Steve Harvey fucked up.
It's similar to how Moonlight has to share the spotlight but at least people will remember Moonlight.
Silver Arrows
Banned
It doesn't matter. Seemingly, learn your place and don't even mention nicely "Hey, this kind of plays into systematic racism"
Nah, they had their moment ruined, they were absolutely robbed of it. Not going to forget that.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Exactly. Does anyone really think things would have been different if the films involved were reversed? It was shitty that the La La Land people thought they won and then had the award rescinded, it was shitty the spotlight wasn't solely on the film that won, it was shitty that Kimmel acted like a dork instead of the host of a prestigious awards show. All of this would have been shitty in the same way if Moonlight were the film that was mistakenly announced.
Just imagine the hot takes we'd have seen if things had gone down that way.
I really doubt anyone who witnessed it is going to be forgetting it any time soon. There's a difference between remembering it and discussing it and perseverating on it and reading intent into it though.
Multiple people have said "This most definitely is symbolic of systemic racism, but not an example of it." Not sure where you're getting that sentiment.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The article is reaching. Most of us here recognize that Moonlight was robbed because of a careless mistake. The article insinuates that the carelessness was caused because of the skin color of the people that made the movie.
That is absolutely not the narrative of this thread. The narrative of this thread is that Jimmy Kimmel is apparently a racist homophobe.
Wanna point to where I said that?
Frozenprince
Banned
"Hey this is endemic of yet another sign that black culture and representation is still being denied the spotlight it's due" is not a hot take
But "denied" implies deliberate action. That is the issue people have.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Using the word "robbed" ,"denied" raised the connotation of the people behind the mistake being responsible for the skewed narrative. What is to blame is the way people decide to consume media. Which it would be hard to argue against that is what we are seeing with the news of the night being the mistake rather than anything else. In the same vein, people see the word robbed and then see it as the situation being blamed on those involved that night.
Frozenprince
Banned
Frozenprince
Banned
But they were denied it. That's fact. Being hung up on stupid as shit semantics is the typical sidestep to any and all actual discussion of anything even tangentially race related.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
The article is positing that extra attention should have been made to not fuck up this moment, when the winners aren't known by anyone in the institution but Price Waterhouse Coopers two selected people, with one that happened to fuck up.
The article is a mess and there is likely better articles out there that talk about the issue without seguing into things that don't line up with facts.
The article was written because institutional racism is alive and well in Hollywood and minorities have to do twice the work for half the acknowledgement.
Because every other black achievement tends to be given shared credit with some noble white person who is portrayed as helping or letting the black person win in a sort of Blindside-esque act of heroism.
It exists because Moonlight is an art-house and hyper intellectual film coming from a black director and cast but people aren't talking about how special it is.
Should anything be added?
Real question. Not being a dick. Trying to hear you out.
To me the article is misguided and kinda insulting to the Moonlight team despite the context, but I'm willing to admit I may be missing something.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Imagine if the wrong envelope they handed Beatty, instead of being Emma Stone's Best Actress envelope, was Suicide Squad's Best Costume envelope, and Faye Dunaway exclaimed "SUICIDE SQUAD!"
The "issue" implies it was malicious. It really sucks, but it was an honest mistake. The reaction would have been no different if it was Fences or Manchester by the Sea.
This is what I mean by not engaging what the fuck we be saying.
The title of the article is 'Why It's Important to Recognize That "Moonlight" Was Robbed Of Its Moment'. Read that back a few times.
NOBODY is saying that the shit was planned. Please stop bringing it up as if that's our problem. The point of the article is to:
1. Recognize that while the gaffe could have happened to anyone, it's especially bad because of the circumstances
2. Recognize that in many eyes this win can't be separated from LLL when it deserves to stand on its own
3. Recognize the micro aggressions acted out by Kimmel
These points were NOT hard to grasp from the article. But nobody took the time to engage it with any sort of nuance or any sort of empathy for black people. You all just said that it wasn't a big deal, it was a honest mistake, and that we should get over ourselves for "reaching".
Nobody is telling you to agree with anybody. What's insulting is the instant dismissal of our concerns. And if you're upset that I put yt ppl in it, then build a bridge and get over it, because most of you all just played into it at the beginning of this thread like I said.
Frozenprince
Banned
But it wasn't Fences or Manchester by the Sea or anything. We don't live in a reality where it was one of the other nominees. This happened, to ignore the issues even tangentially related to it is to be willfully blind for the sake of it.
It just being an honest mistake doesn't remove the issue.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
Okay.
I think people can understand the issues of institutional racism while also being aware that it's incredibly unlikely that the accountants fucked up the envelopes because of that. That's a crazy reach, why should that not be called out
But no one denied them. Assigning blame is what people have an issue with. This wasn't caused by bigotry, subconscious or otherwise. It's unfortunate it happened but to point fingers at individuals is going too far.
Ignore my previous post. I see what you mean now.
Yup, this is what I saw. Kimmel was making shitty pointless comments and Horowitz stepped up and produced that shit until the correct people were on stage. I was also none too impressed by the "Oh by the way we lost" guy.
https://twitter.com/i/moments/836888641867763713I'm going to have to post this a million times, aren't I:
I agree with the overall point, but the Variety example is a bad one.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
I don't think anyone is arguing that Moonlight wasn't robbed of their spotlight or complaining that you guys rightly complain that it happened. The article in question is stating that the mistake was institutional racism at work.
The Article said:
That is reaching.
Frozenprince
Banned
Being denied because of a fuck up is still being denied.
But the problem people have is assigning the cause of that denial to individuals. It was the culmination of innocent mistakes, not racism. In a hypothetical utopia with no racism, it could have still happened.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Yea, Price Waterhouse Cooper's reps fucked Moonlight over.
It was my second thought after everything unfolded. That they didn't get their moment alone on the stage to say what they had to say to the world. I'm sure they had something profound prepared, but the moment was stolen away from them due to PWC's neglect, to the fault of nobody else.
Most unfortunate. And I don't think Kemmel meant anything by his comments; I'd like to think he would have said the same had Moonlight had to hand over their trophies. It might have been even worse becuase the Moonlight team would have been in the middle of saying some deep shit only to get the Kanye West interruption. I thought Kemmel's reaction was less micro aggression and more an instinct toward sympathy to those caught in the embarrassing situation. If it had been Moonlight's staff, I suspect he would have been just as empathetic to them. But we'll never know.
It was my second thought after everything unfolded. That they didn't get their moment alone on the stage to say what they had to say to the world. I'm sure they had something profound prepared, but the moment was stolen away from them due to PWC's neglect, to the fault of nobody else.
Most unfortunate. And I don't think Kemmel meant anything by his comments; I'd like to think he would have said the same had Moonlight had to hand over their trophies. It might have been even worse becuase the Moonlight team would have been in the middle of saying some deep shit only to get the Kanye West interruption. I thought Kemmel's reaction was less micro aggression and more an instinct toward sympathy to those caught in the embarrassing situation. If it had been Moonlight's staff, I suspect he would have been just as empathetic to them. But we'll never know.
What you said is the general gist of it. Black people just wanted Moonlight to get it's deserved shine. Dassit.
It sure played with expectations. Moonlight was arguably the underdog. In a way it was like a sports comeback after everyone thought the game was lost
Arkage
Banned
Framing this screw-up as symptomatic of institutional racism is literally trying to find a topic that will ensure people vehemently disagree with each other over. It's hard enough to convince middle and right America of institutional racism on good, solid evidence like the resume-with-black-sound-names studies. But then this kind of stuff is impossible to sell to anybody except the most polarized elements of the left party.
I'd argue that in a broader sense, articles like this undermine the strength of the movement against institutional racism. Muddying the water with these kinds of claims provokes many others to completely dismiss "structural racism" as a real thing, and makes the path towards political allies all the more difficult.
I'd argue that in a broader sense, articles like this undermine the strength of the movement against institutional racism. Muddying the water with these kinds of claims provokes many others to completely dismiss "structural racism" as a real thing, and makes the path towards political allies all the more difficult.
That verbiage alone implies a deliberate, malicious act. Someone doesn't get "robbed" accidentally. People aren't incidentally robbed, they are deliberately robbed. I recognize that that is not really the tone or point of the article itself, but if you're going to use a provocative eye-catching headline then expect to be kind of raked over the coals for it.
TickleMeElbow
Member
It is a fucking bummer. It bugs me as a cinephile because I think Moonlight is honest to goodness the artsiest and most aggressively indie movie to win Best Picture in my lifetime. I wish people were talking about the filmmaking instead of the mixup, because I wanted to see more good movies get the Oscar push from their studios in the future.
I dunno what should be done about it really, because it's hard to expect companies not to aknowledge possibly the most memorable event in Oscar history, but it hardly seems fair how it's discussed.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Did the Moonlight folks do speeches?
old manatee
Banned
I got robbed by accident once.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Who denied them the spotlight? And why? Does that not matter at all?
What if this random accident happened between two films with black casts? What if the films were reversed?
Again, no one is saying it's not terrible what happened. But it clearly, clearly was unintentional, and the people on stage were clearly, clearly not thinking through what they were saying.
Frozenprince
Banned
But the film is not a sentient being, the film and what it represents was robbed. Sophistry seems to only go insofar as to when it's drawn along a racial line as to better paint a picture.
They did, but it was kinda sapped of it's pomp and celebration. Honestly, and I know this is stupid, but in hindsight it woulda been cool to clear the stage, announce the error and play music for them. Never gonna happen though. It's borderline illegal to have dead air on TV for too long.
Yes, but rather hurriedly.
You're being pedantic over a colloquial use of a term that is not strange to see in it's context.
It was definitely shocking. From "Of course they would pick La La Land" to unprecedented reversal in the span of a couple of minutes. They should have cleared the La La Land crew off the stage, and calmed the audience down first, before letting the Moonlight producers do their speeches. That would have been ideal given the situation. It's not like the ceremony has a history of ending on time as it is.
I can see why everyone was confused though. I had not clue what was going on while watching. The announcer was talking about La La Land's 7 wins just minutes before.
The silver lining on this cloud is that Moonlight is gonna get one of the biggest Oscar bumps in history I bet.
Not a lotta people saw it, but the madness of that moment is gonna have a lot of curious eyes going to Moonlight. They will sadly perplexed I think, but money is good.
Not a lotta people saw it, but the madness of that moment is gonna have a lot of curious eyes going to Moonlight. They will sadly perplexed I think, but money is good.
-COOLIO-
The Everyman
I also feel like this is pretty unfair.
In this situation the apology is obviously the priority. For the night, he is speaking on behalf of the organization that is ultimately responsible for the fuck up.
Generally speaking, if I was going to do right by one party and wrong by another, my immediate attention would be on consoling the party I did wrong by. Because the party that won already have some immediate consolation in the form of a very prestigious award.
In this situation the apology is obviously the priority. For the night, he is speaking on behalf of the organization that is ultimately responsible for the fuck up.
Generally speaking, if I was going to do right by one party and wrong by another, my immediate attention would be on consoling the party I did wrong by. Because the party that won already have some immediate consolation in the form of a very prestigious award.
Can we at least recognize a difference between being the victim of an unfortunate accident and being the victim of conscious or even unconscious bigotry? No one has an issue with commenting on how terrible it is that in the context of the shitty race relations and institutionalized racism problems we have in this country the well deserved praise for a truly deserving, important film was interrupted by an awful mixup. That's fine.
The issue people have is tying that mixup directly to the aforementioned problems with racism we have, and even singling out Kimmel as having acted in a particular way because he was conditioned to side with white people. It's unfair to those people.
The issue people have is tying that mixup directly to the aforementioned problems with racism we have, and even singling out Kimmel as having acted in a particular way because he was conditioned to side with white people. It's unfair to those people.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked