Frozenprince
Banned
As long as they market it better it should do alright.
Commercials try and sell it as another "hood coming of age story" and uh, the gay stuff kinda just pops on you if you don't know it's there.
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Why It's Important to Recognize That "Moonlight" Was Robbed Of Its Moment
- Thread starter Korey
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Commercials try and sell it as another "hood coming of age story" and uh, the gay stuff kinda just pops on you if you don't know it's there.
old manatee
Banned
edit: my bad
infinit777
Member
I find this article to just be digging to start controversy. Yes , it was a shit show and what happened happened.
I don't think it had to do whatsoever with diversifying the Oscars and if anything it gave the movie even more attention.
I hadn't even heard of the movie until after all this went down and it was in every news feed. Now I want to see the movie.
I don't think it had to do whatsoever with diversifying the Oscars and if anything it gave the movie even more attention.
I hadn't even heard of the movie until after all this went down and it was in every news feed. Now I want to see the movie.
The other part of it is the post-awards coverage. Every article about Moonlight has to mention La La Land first. Those magazines and websites are part of the Hollywood institution. There is an argument to be made that if Manchester had upset LLL it would be covered differently.
I don't agree, but I think that angle is the more interesting and important one being put forward.
ClayKavalier
Banned
This was really shitty. It's easy to pick apart reactions to something like this in hindsight, but it's bullshit that the La La Land people got to speak longer, and IIRC more people involved with LLL spoke.
I'd like to think a more experience host would have taken charge more and handled the situation more along these lines. No dumbass jokes, just an apology, make sure the proper people are on stage, and reset the clock so the Moonlight crew get their due time on stage.
I think one thing everyone can agree on is Kimmel was not a good host.
I can agree with points 1 and 2, however I think 3 is a real stretch.
Dude was in a super uncomfortable and unscripted position as the host. The farthest thing from Kimmel's mind was probably the social ramifications of Moonlight winning compared to the immediate embarrassment felt for the LLL cast/crew. By trying to provide sympathy to the LLL folks, I don't think it's fair to characterize him as trying to demean or belittle the Moonlight cast/crew.
It was a really weird moment.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
In Kimmel's defense. If I had to take something away from someone, I use the the more compassionate language on them too. In the moment I wouldn't think that the winner would need me other than to make way for them, the losers are the ones I have to kick out of the stage and I would be thinking of how to sugarcoat that.
To say "Moonlight" was robbed is essentially to say that its cast and crew were robbed as well. There's clearly some metonymy going on.
Probably yes, but in a world where people don't really go that far beyond the headlines I don't know what else to expect. That phrasing seems designed to enrage both the people who disagree and agree with its premise. If you want to get all those eyeballs on your thinkpiece, then at some point you are going to have to deal with critique from people who can't see farther than the title.
Frozenprince
Banned
Yeah it was really fucked how they let them basically give his whole speech before a quick "oh yeah we lost" and the Moonlight crews speech was just condensed to "they say dreams are foolish, but fuck you dreams I've got an Oscar".
andythinkpad
Member
Feel free to hang that accountant guy, I don't care.
But blame it on anyone else or "The Man" is funny.
But blame it on anyone else or "The Man" is funny.
Everyone on the Oscar side was internally screaming because of the greatest fuckup in Oscar history, so people weren't thinking straight.
Yes, I do believe a better host would have focused on the Moonlight crew. I don't think this can be pointed to as an indicator of racial bias, but an inability to smoothly deal with a situation that has gone off the rails.
Yes, I do believe a better host would have focused on the Moonlight crew. I don't think this can be pointed to as an indicator of racial bias, but an inability to smoothly deal with a situation that has gone off the rails.
Yes, makes me role my eyes. There is ACTUAL institutionalized rascismm to write about - not this stuff.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's weird because no moment was really stolen in the long run. Why? Does anyone really talk about the oscars a week or a month later besides the scandels or mistakes? Can anyone really remember last year's host? Or the year before that?. Want to know what we remember from award shows? Beyonce had the best video of all time, Steve Harvey giving the wrong award, toilets breaking to cause everything to smell like shit, or did you see how she wore a dress where we saw a side profile of her vagina?
At the very least Moonlight might get a longer run in word of mouth. I see this mistake as a win.
At the very least Moonlight might get a longer run in word of mouth. I see this mistake as a win.
You forget that Kimmel already was fucking up earlier by making a joke about Mahershala's name, something he tends to do often when it comes to black and brown folk.
We're not pulling this out of a vacuum. Kimmel has been cancelled when he normalized Donald Trump and crying over that stupid ass lion.
I think the press might have still mentioned La La Land even without the mixup just because it was expected to win. It would be an underdog story and there can't be an underdog without a favorite. Maybe to a lesser extent but still.
And I mean, all kinds of articles could be written about what influences how the press covers things. Would definitely be an interesting area to look at and could be generalized enough that you wouldn't have to unfairly target individuals.
Wasn't that Fallon?
On that first point, you're thinking of Jimmy Fallon. As for being sad/angry about lion poaching...so?
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Also, I think it's fair to include La La Land for articles about best picture because it's not like people who think they won an award don't feel sad after when it was a mistake. Gotta feel bad for them, they were excited to have won.
Kimmel had him on as well. Talked about debating Sanders.
Wrong jimmy, I'll run that back
Are you suggesting that the audio crew, in the midst of some crazy spur-of-the-moment onstage meltdown, should have had the foresight to cut off the LLL producer? To say that they "let him" give his whole speech implies that they somehow knew the award had been given in error and should have somehow silenced him.
Were the Moonlight speeches cut off in any way? I presumed they were allowed to speak as long as they wanted. I don't recall production team muting microphones or having the symphony play them offstage.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
Joking about Mahershala's name was Kimmel's wackest moment.
ClayKavalier
Banned
The worst was the guy associated with LLL who began giving a speech after realizing the mistake and did the lame "Oh yeah, and guess what, we lost" line after being cut off. I think a lot of what happened is excusable due to the confusion, but that guy was being a jackass. Did he think the LLL people should just continue speaking and they'd issue a statement after the show or something? The producer guy handled it way better.
But yeah, they really should have hit the pause button. I'm sure everyone who wins an award is anxious to some extent but it's stupid that Barry Jenkins had to think of something to say while processing what was happening.
Frozenprince
Banned
Yes obviously that's what I'm saying. Obviously.
old manatee
Banned
I think the one thing that everyone should be able to agree on is that Jimmy Kimmel is a fucking doofus.
He must have been the sole fan of that Uma/Oprah bit that Letterman failed miserably at delivering during one of the 90s Oscars.
As a person who talks when they are freaking out I can empathize with that guy. He turned down the mic at first and got pushed into speaking as the big kids sorted it out. I think he pretty clearly was trying to create a big "Oscar moment" that didn't land.
It was the wrong move and a bad look, but if I were freaking the fuck out I might just try to be funny or clever for a second to fill time. I'm an idiot. I'd like to think I'm not completely malicious though.
dragonfart28
Banned
It's articles like this that convert liberals into conservatives.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
lol?
more people are talking about moonlight more because of the fuck up
literally no one even gives a shit about the oscars so in my eyes this is a blessing for moonlight's crew to further get their work out there because of the controversy but whatever
more people are talking about moonlight more because of the fuck up
literally no one even gives a shit about the oscars so in my eyes this is a blessing for moonlight's crew to further get their work out there because of the controversy but whatever
if it took an article from cosmo to change political ideologies, maybe you were just a racist all along!
ClayKavalier
Banned
He wasn't trying to be funny or clever though, he was accepting the award.
old manatee
Banned
My favorite part was when Warren Beatty tried to pass the grenade to Faye Dunaway. That's what a 50 year friendship with Dick Tracy will get you.
TheWasTheJoke
Member
Terrible, terrible article.. why
dragonfart28
Banned
It's when the message shifts from oppression to entitlement.
ClayKavalier
Banned
He showed her the slip because she was wondering why he didn't just announce the winner. He didn't know she was going to immediately blurt out what was written on it. He also stayed behind to explain what happened while she just bounced.
He definitely didn't handle it well, but it's not like he made her into a scapegoat or tried to make her responsible for the situation.
But what if it turns the casual racists into hobbyist racists?
Entitlement? Tell me more. I'm intrigued
No no it wouldn't
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Yes it is a small act of rebelry, but a tantrum if you will, rather than suggesting that he should keep the award. He was upset that they put him in that situation and wanted to make it obvious, since we tend to do that.
Eh, I think he was imagining getting to say "also we didn't win" and everyone in the audience gasping before erupting into applause or something stupid. I dunno. He knew they didn't win and didn't wanna talk at first so it kinda requires that I assume he is either mentally disabled or sociopathic to just assume he thought he would get to keep the Oscar.
I'm not psychic though, so whatever.
That's a bit much and I respectfully disagree. I will say that articles like this calling the whole mix up institutional racism, when it really appeared to be an honest mistake, is one of the things that causes people to downplay actual institutional racism. If you look for deeper meaning and a conspiracy where there is none will make certain people dismiss your argument in the future. It doesn't really help anybody.
Shut up
UnemployedVillain
Member
I'm going to have to disagree with the article. I feel that the writer is very much either projecting or trying to make vague connections between what happened and the greater topic of inclusivity, when, if anything, Moonlight's win was a small step towards a more inclusive entertainment industry. Breaking down the various points
1. Jimmy Kimmel's response is a complete non-factor. The dude is the host, a comedian who had his "start" with The Man Show. He had no vested interest in who won, and was simply flustered and trying to play off the mistake with a joke. I don't see the point in reading into his response or trying to extrapolate anything from it other than, he said something and it was largely ignored
2. I agree with the posters that said this could, and should, actually be seen as a plus, if anything. It wasa spectacular upset done in the most spectacular way possible. Yes, it'll probably be hard to disentangle Moonlight from La La Land, but so what? When the relation is that Moonlight beat it, against the odds, that's not a bad thing. Not to mention, if I were to ask one of you to name what film won Best Picture in 2010, would you be able to off the top of your head? Yet, I bet 7 years down the line if you were asked to name which film won best picture, in the year where the screwed up the envelopes, without even remembering the year Moonlight would come to mind. So if anything, I think that while it was unfortunate that it didn't get a typical announcement, it had the upside of making it a much more memorable one!
People bring up Steve Harvey as overshadowing who won Miss Universe, but the key difference here is there is no well known entity to point to as the source of the screw up. Who even knows the names of the people responsible for handing the correct envelopes? No, this won't suffer from that.
3. I think, most importantly, is that the mistake was rectified quickly. The author used the word "robbed", intentionally so because of the connotations it evokes of Moonlight having an injustice committed upon it. Now, I'd have definitely agreed if say, this screw up was spotted and fixed after the show and the cast/crew never got their time on stage, but at most they were delayed by a few minutes, so I wouldn't really call it an injustice, outside of them not being able to experience the generic winner announcement.
I'm not saying the author isn't entitled to their opinion, but it sounds like they're fishing for outrage where there shouldn't really be any. They're making huge leaps and weak connections to draw to light large injustices, in a way that feels transparent in what it's attempting to do. The part that said "Much like Jimmy Kimmel, however, Americans are socially conditioned to feel the most empathy for what white folks are losing rather than for what black folks are rightfully, finally winning." feels incredibly cheap, almost to the point of absurdity. Like the author is trying to elevate a small, innocuous joke by a comedian to the level, it is far from deserving.
This is the same Kimmel that had a whole skit joking about Benedict Cumberbatch's name...Yeah, I can empathize with minorities dealing with having difficult names to pronounce and the ridicule that sometimes entails (considering I have a name that 99% of people mispronounce, even when I tell them how to, and which I shorten/change as well to make it easier), this really isn't a case of that
1. Jimmy Kimmel's response is a complete non-factor. The dude is the host, a comedian who had his "start" with The Man Show. He had no vested interest in who won, and was simply flustered and trying to play off the mistake with a joke. I don't see the point in reading into his response or trying to extrapolate anything from it other than, he said something and it was largely ignored
2. I agree with the posters that said this could, and should, actually be seen as a plus, if anything. It wasa spectacular upset done in the most spectacular way possible. Yes, it'll probably be hard to disentangle Moonlight from La La Land, but so what? When the relation is that Moonlight beat it, against the odds, that's not a bad thing. Not to mention, if I were to ask one of you to name what film won Best Picture in 2010, would you be able to off the top of your head? Yet, I bet 7 years down the line if you were asked to name which film won best picture, in the year where the screwed up the envelopes, without even remembering the year Moonlight would come to mind. So if anything, I think that while it was unfortunate that it didn't get a typical announcement, it had the upside of making it a much more memorable one!
People bring up Steve Harvey as overshadowing who won Miss Universe, but the key difference here is there is no well known entity to point to as the source of the screw up. Who even knows the names of the people responsible for handing the correct envelopes? No, this won't suffer from that.
3. I think, most importantly, is that the mistake was rectified quickly. The author used the word "robbed", intentionally so because of the connotations it evokes of Moonlight having an injustice committed upon it. Now, I'd have definitely agreed if say, this screw up was spotted and fixed after the show and the cast/crew never got their time on stage, but at most they were delayed by a few minutes, so I wouldn't really call it an injustice, outside of them not being able to experience the generic winner announcement.
I'm not saying the author isn't entitled to their opinion, but it sounds like they're fishing for outrage where there shouldn't really be any. They're making huge leaps and weak connections to draw to light large injustices, in a way that feels transparent in what it's attempting to do. The part that said "Much like Jimmy Kimmel, however, Americans are socially conditioned to feel the most empathy for what white folks are losing rather than for what black folks are rightfully, finally winning." feels incredibly cheap, almost to the point of absurdity. Like the author is trying to elevate a small, innocuous joke by a comedian to the level, it is far from deserving.
This is the same Kimmel that had a whole skit joking about Benedict Cumberbatch's name...Yeah, I can empathize with minorities dealing with having difficult names to pronounce and the ridicule that sometimes entails (considering I have a name that 99% of people mispronounce, even when I tell them how to, and which I shorten/change as well to make it easier), this really isn't a case of that
Rumblebones
Banned
Some of you need to read the goddamn article. This thread is an embarrassment.
yeah, seems pretty obvious. He didn't say "you do it!" She gave him a hard time, they both got nervous and showed her the card awkwardly. She just read the card. People are outside of GAF are fallible.
It's wholly uninteresting to try to make someone into the bad guy, but people crave narrative I guess.
17 Seconds
Banned
there was a mix up with an envelope and 2 old people got confused and fucked up. that's all this amounts to. there is no deeper meaning, and it doesn't change anything. i mean, it sucks that their moment was kind of botched, but shit happens.
Uh. Ok.
I'm confused at what the author thinks should have happened after the mistake was made. They obviously didn't have a set protocol and it makes sense to be apologetic to the mistaken winner. I imagine kimmel had producers either freaking out in his ear, or he had no guidance. But I guess Kimmel should have told them to shut up and ripped the oscar from their hands?
This is something out of nothing.
I'm confused at what the author thinks should have happened after the mistake was made. They obviously didn't have a set protocol and it makes sense to be apologetic to the mistaken winner. I imagine kimmel had producers either freaking out in his ear, or he had no guidance. But I guess Kimmel should have told them to shut up and ripped the oscar from their hands?
This is something out of nothing.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Eh, it's really not that deep. It's actually kind of funny that somehow a snub still appeared to happen.
If an article like this can "turn" someone from a liberal to a conservative they probably weren't a liberal to begin with.
If an article like this can "turn" someone from a liberal to a conservative they probably weren't a liberal to begin with.
ClayKavalier
Banned
Maybe. You're right, we really don't know, and I'm not sure what I'd do in that situation.
Personally I appreciated the producer's tactic of immediately shutting down the LLL speeches and making it clear that Moonlight won over the other guy's approach of making sure he gets to have his say before revealing what happening on his own time. We don't know exactly what was going on in his head, but I do think it's very clear from his facial expressions before speaking and from his immediate "Oh yeah, and we lost" reaction after being cut off that he definitely knew what happened before taking the microphone.
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