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Why were Disney traditional hand drawn movies soo good?
- Thread starter AmMortal
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Aside from the style (and the forced efforts to cram computer animation into the films), I'd argue that it largely stems from issues with intent and expected audience for the films.
During the 80s/90s rebirth of Disney animation, they were largely trying to extend the traditional Disney "take a classic tale and present it as a musical" film... not that all prior Disney films were like that, but that's what they were doing. The most popular "new" Disney films were like that... The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc.. Classic-style story, great music, etc.. Notice how folks never mention Oliver and Company when talking about great Disney films from that time period? How about The Rescuers Down Under? Both were done in the same general period as the other films...
After a certain point, there was also a shift to make "different" films, either due to losing a large chunk of staff to Dreamworks or something else... then we started seeing films with both different musical styles and different kinds of stories. A shift away from traditional "romance/adventure" stories and trying new things, but with these new efforts generally failing to capture the same audience appeal each time. As the films continued to underperform...well.. Eisney finally just cut them off entirely, in favor of equally lousy computer animated films by Disney.
Here's a list of the "revival" Disney animated films... TLM, B&B, and Hunchback being my favorites... Aladdin and Lion King both being good but not really being all that big on my list, probably due to the musical styles... Mulan was okay, and Fantasia 2000 really doesn't count due to merely being a few new pieces animated for the film (although the Donald and the Ark section is great.)
It's bad when I have no interest in even bothering to watch a Disney animated film, but that was the case a few times in this list....
Oliver & Company
The Little Mermaid
The Rescuers Down Under
Beauty And The Beast
Aladdin
The Lion King
Pocahontas
The Hunchback Of Notre Dame
Hercules
Mulan
Tarzan
Fantasia/2000
The Emperor's New Groove
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Lilo And Stitch
Treasure Planet
Brother Bear
Home On The Range
During the 80s/90s rebirth of Disney animation, they were largely trying to extend the traditional Disney "take a classic tale and present it as a musical" film... not that all prior Disney films were like that, but that's what they were doing. The most popular "new" Disney films were like that... The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc.. Classic-style story, great music, etc.. Notice how folks never mention Oliver and Company when talking about great Disney films from that time period? How about The Rescuers Down Under? Both were done in the same general period as the other films...
After a certain point, there was also a shift to make "different" films, either due to losing a large chunk of staff to Dreamworks or something else... then we started seeing films with both different musical styles and different kinds of stories. A shift away from traditional "romance/adventure" stories and trying new things, but with these new efforts generally failing to capture the same audience appeal each time. As the films continued to underperform...well.. Eisney finally just cut them off entirely, in favor of equally lousy computer animated films by Disney.
Here's a list of the "revival" Disney animated films... TLM, B&B, and Hunchback being my favorites... Aladdin and Lion King both being good but not really being all that big on my list, probably due to the musical styles... Mulan was okay, and Fantasia 2000 really doesn't count due to merely being a few new pieces animated for the film (although the Donald and the Ark section is great.)
It's bad when I have no interest in even bothering to watch a Disney animated film, but that was the case a few times in this list....
Oliver & Company
The Little Mermaid
The Rescuers Down Under
Beauty And The Beast
Aladdin
The Lion King
Pocahontas
The Hunchback Of Notre Dame
Hercules
Mulan
Tarzan
Fantasia/2000
The Emperor's New Groove
Atlantis: The Lost Empire
Lilo And Stitch
Treasure Planet
Brother Bear
Home On The Range
They stopped being good when the nine old men left and the power over the movies shifted from the creators to the people that market them. However, it's starting to shift back the other way under John Lasseter, just look at what is up and coming. Bolt and Rapunzel are good examples of John's positive influence at Disney.
opening of hunchback is the greatest of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwnh-sxaBwk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwnh-sxaBwk
leroy hacker said:
What I had during my childhood was the absolute best stuff ever, none of this new-fangled crap will replace it, and every kid today is a doomed, miserable wretch with the stuff they have to grow up on!!
This thread, like many others on these topics, is about the delusional childhood nostalgia of 20-something year olds.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Why oh why aren't there any Chicken Little fans in this threadd???
Ela Hadrun
Probably plays more games than you
leroy hacker said:
Noooo kidding. I was totally ready to heap the praise on Sleeping Beauty and Robin Hood but it turns out it was just the kids' table in here.
I mean, yeah, Aladdin is in my top twenty. But it's after the older stuff. (Movies get points for not having pop songs over the credits.)
As for the people whining about whether or not Disney movies are PC... Peter Pan has a song titled "What Made the Red Man Red." Disney movies are NOT PC. You may like them, but they are full of racist and sexist bullshit.
Aladdin did have to change lyrics between theatrical and video release--"Where it's vast and immense and the heat is intense--it's barbaric, but hey, it's home!" used to be "Where they cut off your ear if they don't like you--it's barbaric, but hey, it's home!" Of course, the PC version is actually a better lyric....
I don't know if any of you have seen, but Tinkerbell has a whole new multiethnic group of friends--I'm much happier seeing that than eking out one ethnicity of princess at a time. One of the ethnicities appears to be "tomboy"... Must be the gay fairy, lawls.
Yeah the traditional stuff rocks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP1TzHbt7do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP1TzHbt7do
DeathbyVolcano
Banned
I gotta say, I think 101 Dalmatians might be one of my favorites. It has such an awesome style.
Xisiqomelir
Member
Framerate
kruskev said:
Heaven's Light / Hellfire FTW.
Even though it has the retarded gargoyles present during the first part of the song - those guys generally ruin the movie. The gargoyles, to me, represent just how badly they were tied to formula at that point.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Around the Lion King, Disney really fell off in terms of quality. They started trying to make movies that were quirky (Goofy Movie, Lilo & Stitch, Emperor's New Groove) instead of the epic awesomeness that made them famous with my generation
Thankfully, Pixar has picked up where they left off
Thankfully, Pixar has picked up where they left off
DeadFalling
Member
Adumaha said:
Which is where Miyazaki came in for me.
MisterHero
Super Member
I dunno man, A Goofy Movie was well-made and had some great songs. So did Mulan and Hercules. Tarzan was well-animated and well-told but the characters don't really sing the songs. As for Hercules, while I wouldn't call it lazy (because I loved it), I 'd agree you can really tell that they added priority into telling jokes and keeping the audience entertained on top of trying to tell the story.ElectricBlue187 said:
Goofy Movie had pop culture jokes but that was a given since it had a modern-day setting, but unlike Hercules's weaker moments, or Emperor's New Groove, L&S, etc. it stuck to its story.
I don't know if a lot of the world would like to see a return of old-school Disney's style (I guess we'll find out when The Princess and the Frog releases). And even if the world did want them, the expectations for a rise in quality for modern standards and hiring talent would be expensive and time-consuming.
A Goofy Movie strangely filled the gap in the year Pocahontas came out and sucked out loud.
I liked Lion King a lot as a kid and liked Little Mermaid too. Aladdin was my favorite until I rewatched it a few years back.
Emperor's New Groove was one hell of a surprise. All the in-jokes were great ("I know, looking at the map, it makes no sense.").
Hunchback was the best and worst of Disney in the 90s. Stupid sidekicks for the sake of having stupid sidekicks and upbeat songs (The King of Fools song, whatever it was, actually worked really well and it didn't need the gargoyles), and a happy ending where everyone gets together and hugs. But it was also had the darkest moments of a Disney film. It treated sexuality a little differently than previous Disney films. Jasmine and Ariel use it in different ways, but this time, it becomes part of the villain's motivation, and it was pretty original for a Disney flick. Also, Tony Jay is just fucking awesome. The animation was beautiful. Such a mixed bag. If you take out either half of the movie, you're left with either the best or the worst Disney had to offer.
I liked Lion King a lot as a kid and liked Little Mermaid too. Aladdin was my favorite until I rewatched it a few years back.
Emperor's New Groove was one hell of a surprise. All the in-jokes were great ("I know, looking at the map, it makes no sense.").
Hunchback was the best and worst of Disney in the 90s. Stupid sidekicks for the sake of having stupid sidekicks and upbeat songs (The King of Fools song, whatever it was, actually worked really well and it didn't need the gargoyles), and a happy ending where everyone gets together and hugs. But it was also had the darkest moments of a Disney film. It treated sexuality a little differently than previous Disney films. Jasmine and Ariel use it in different ways, but this time, it becomes part of the villain's motivation, and it was pretty original for a Disney flick. Also, Tony Jay is just fucking awesome. The animation was beautiful. Such a mixed bag. If you take out either half of the movie, you're left with either the best or the worst Disney had to offer.
A WHOLE NEW WOOOOORLD!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9-CS2v8wcc
But to be serious, yeah Disney movies used to be awesome. But then they started making shitty straight to video sequels to their movies - what the hell? At least Pixar's movies are sort of filling that awesome family movie niche.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9-CS2v8wcc
But to be serious, yeah Disney movies used to be awesome. But then they started making shitty straight to video sequels to their movies - what the hell? At least Pixar's movies are sort of filling that awesome family movie niche.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
I was going to come in here and say how good Prince of Egypt was but I think that's Dreamworks.
fyi, the best handrawn cartoon wasn't even a disney feature - it was a Warner Bros feature. That is, it was 'The Iron Giant'. But as to why disney traditional hand animation was so good probably goes back to the perfectionist character that was Walt Disney. Did you know that he had his animation team spend over 3 months working on one scene, just ONE scene, for Pinocchio. I'd imagine that after decades of Walt's death this practice of perfectionism was lost and now you've got crap like 'Into the Wild'. Hopefully 'The Princess and the Frog' will set things straight again.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Oblivion said:
I was being sarcastic. That movie was Disney shit condensed.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Oblivion said:
I haven't seen it for years, but I think it's pretty underrated.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
"Boo."
When I was in college, I saw Fantasia with my stoner roommate-- I had seen it years earlier, it was his first time. Afterwards, the exchange when like this:
Me: What did you think?
Him: It was OK, kinda typical Disney.
Me: Really ahead of its time, don't you think?
Him: No, I mean, everybody was into stuff like that in the 60s.
Me: It came out in 1940.
Him: ...
Add me to this list of people lamenting that this focused on the 90s output. Granted, it was a great time for Disney, but there's so much more.
Unfortunately the sidekick crap really drags the overall film down.Oblivion said:
Otherwise, the awesome at its best is:
Hellfire
Frolo really makes this film
(I mean, not even five minutes in, he kills a defenseless woman and plans on killing a baby Holy shit)
For some reason the ending to Basil The Great Mouse Detective stuck in my head.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkHYVvLBAJs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkHYVvLBAJs
No Means Nomad
Banned
Mister, I'll make a man out of you.Anasui Kishibe said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnp4kj5lLOUProfessorLobo said:
Better?
And lol at the YouTube comments comparing this to the 2005 movie.
Louminater
Banned
It's not just Disney cartoons, I just miss cartoon made movies in general! They were so good!
Rover Dangerfield
Ferngully
Once Upon a Forest
The Pagemaster
Little Nemo
Brave little Toaster
An American Tail
Iron Giant is one of the last good ones made.
Rover Dangerfield
Ferngully
Once Upon a Forest
The Pagemaster
Little Nemo
Brave little Toaster
An American Tail
Iron Giant is one of the last good ones made.
One of the best openings of all time:
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=vX07j9SDFcc
Coolio McAwesome
Member
I've recently been watching Disney movies. I am still blown away by how awesome the "Disney Renaissance" was, with Aladdin, the Lion King, and the Little Mermaid being especially awesome. I just watched the Jungle Book again yesterday and am still amazed by how great it is. I don't feel like making a list right now, but the four films I mentioned would rank quite highly on my list of best Disney movies.
MisterHero
Super Member
Wait wait wait, did you say that A Goofy Movie sucked?AniHawk said:
Oblivion said:
Well, from memory, one of the songs goes:
Hellfire! Dark Fire!
This fire is burning in my soul.
Hellfire! Dark Fire!
is turning me to siiiiiin!
It's not my fault.
I'm not to blame.
It's the gypsy girl.
Oh why did God make the woman so much stronger than the maaaaan.
Hellfire! Dark fire!
Is turning me to siiiiiiiiiiin!
Louminater said:
Brave Little Toaster's something I need to see again, though. I think that probably stands the test of time (what a fucking scary cartoon that was). Of course, Iron Giant is great. Land Before Time is my favorite Don Bluth movie, partially thanks to its score, that it doesn't rely on songs, and for Sharp Tooth and everything related to Sharp Tooth (death of the mom, the various chase scenes, etc).
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