• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Opinion Analysis Hardware Without any details, I Feel 'Lockhart' Will (In Some Way) Hold Back The More Ambitious Next-Generation Games...

Son_of_Zardoz

Member
May 15, 2017
591
525
385
Series S is a genius idea. It won't hold back the generation much as it's targeting 1080p, heck if it struggles they can even do checkerboard 1080p. There are a ton of people that don't give 2 shits about resolution and just want to play the latest game with the latest features. I know plenty of people who bought a regular PS4 or Xbox One S for their 4K TVs and they don't care. Also there are plenty of people who also have small TVs and sit far that can't even tell the difference.

People will eat crow I expect Series S will outsell Series X when the generation is over. There are plenty of people who don't mind saving an extra $150 and take a hit on resolution.

As for devs having to optimise for this system, they are already doing this with One X and One S and different PC configurations, they will adjust and in fact they will benefit as more people will be able to play their games due to having affordable next gen system.

This is coming from a PlayStation fan and I am likely going to buy a PS5, but competition is great for everyone, if Series S sells great due to cheap price it can potentially cause Sony to drip the price of PS5 sooner.
Exactly, and later in the lifecycle they can drop the resolution even more and make up for it with the various reconstruction techniques. I had said in the other thread that XSS will be great for me, mainly for my kids' systems when it's time to upgrade from their X1s, but I also have friends that don't really care about buying premium consoles and never upgraded from their launch consoles.

I'm not really worried about this at all, but there seems to be a lot of concern trolling going on. I guess maybe the XSS could hold back the XSX just enough to put it on equal footing with the PS5. :messenger_winking:
 

Magik85

Member
Aug 21, 2018
187
323
285
You forget later in gen resolution is dropped because developers want better graphics on the same machine. PS4 until 2 years ago, almost all games was 1080p, now AAA games are below 1080p or dynamic resolution.
Sure, but 4K is 4xFHD and Series X is supposed to be only 3x series S.
So in theory it should still do native FHD on those games.
Id say 1800p X game will will be native FHD on S (perhaps with RT dialed bit down?).
 

vkbest

Member
Jan 23, 2017
864
707
400
Sure, but 4K is 4xFHD and Series X is supposed to be only 3x series S.
So in theory it should still do native FHD on those games.
Id say 1800p X game will will be native FHD on S (perhaps with RT dialed bit down?).
Power != resolution. You don't gain 2x performance downgrading resolution. You don't need 2x power for 2x resolution.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
Really aren’t PCs holding the power back?

Look at the potatoes people are using on Steam and then say even the PS4 or XB1 are holding gaming back.
 
Last edited:

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,671
2,258
640
France
Power != resolution. You don't gain 2x performance downgrading resolution. You don't need 2x power for 2x resolution.
yep you gain / need 4 times
it's why Cerny said for 4k ps4 games you need 8 of ps4 equivalent tf.
Or did Cerny expectations and estimations were wrong ? (i guess you know the skepticism i will ask for if you say yes to that)
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,671
2,258
640
France
Really aren’t PCs holding the power back?

Look at the potatoes people are using in a Steam and then say even the PS4 or XB1 are ho,ding gaming back,
you don't know what games potatoes play
also steam survey is done on potentially one billion accounts. so low percentage are still big.
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,671
2,258
640
France
Not sure if that helps or harms the case for PC.
some common sense can help.
no big budget game ever target office computers using steam...
But thoses pc can still play lot of games and even try to play them with huge sacrifice on settings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZywyPL

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
some common sense can help.
no big budget game ever target office computers using steam...
But thoses pc can still play lot of games and even try to play them with huge sacrifice on settings.
What percentage of those make up the total users?

What percentage are even on par with the PS4 and the XB1?

How many are going to match or exceed the rumoured Lockheart, nevermind legit PS5 and a Series X specs?

Common sense says?

Most PC users will be holding gaming back, not console players.
 
Last edited:

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
Accept what exactly? That you're full of shit and don't make any sense? Sure.
He logically points out that next gen will be adjusted to lower common denominator aka the lowest performing console much like this gen was adjusted to Xbox One rather than Playstation 4.

No one will make Playstation 5 power default platform when they have to take into account that their game needs to run on Lockheart. Which means Playstation 5 games technology will have to be created in such way that it allows lower spec console to still have great framerate.

Either you understand that or you hit your head when was young and can't count.
 
Last edited:

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
He logically points out that next gen will be adjusted to lower common denominator aka the lowest performing console much like this gen was adjusted to Xbox One rather than Playstation 4.

No one will make Playstation 5 power default platform when they have to take into account that their game needs to run on Lockheart. Which means Playstation 5 games technology will have to be created in such way that it allows lower spec console to still have great framerate.

Either you understand that or you hit your head when was young and can't count.
The lockheart (if rumors are true) is still better then most of the PCs out there. It will have an SSD and RDNA chips in it.

PC is going to be the bottleneck going into next gen (as if that’s a thing)

If they can program for all PC configurations I’m sure they will figure out the consoles.
 

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
3,244
5,356
655
yep you gain / need 4 times
it's why Cerny said for 4k ps4 games you need 8 of ps4 equivalent tf.
Or did Cerny expectations and estimations were wrong ? (i guess you know the skepticism i will ask for if you say yes to that)
Depends game by game case, some will indeed need 4x more power to reach 4K, some just 2x, while others/most around 3x.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
The lockheart (if rumors are true) is still better then most of the PCs out there. It will have an SSD and RDNA chips in it.
PC is going to be the bottleneck going into next gen (as if that’s a thing)
If they can program for all PC configurations I’m sure they will figure out the consoles.
No one cares about PCs performance when they make games mate. Especially AAA studios.
Only one who care are usually only PC exclusive developers and even them usually shoot over the moon with it.
Secondly consoles will have better hardware for about 1 year max much like PS4 which got outdated when next GPUs were released and even low tier part could match PS4 gpu.

As for SSDs most of people who actually play good looking games on PC have them for nearly decade. I bought my when PS3 was still a thing, even used it in PS3 in my GT5 days to make loadings shorter.
 
Last edited:

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
4,671
2,258
640
France
What percentage of those make up the total users?

What percentage are even on par with the PS4 and the XB1?

How many are going to match or exceed the rumoured Lockheart, nevermind legit PS5 and a Series X specs?

Common sense says?

Most PC users will be holding gaming back, not console players.
I imagine you deny salability because your narrative can't stand without it.
Your logic pc are static box and current state is will what next will be also can't stand.
They are already pc that will be fine for next gen games.
By time next gen launch there will be even more.
And pc gamers will continue to adapt or change part or all of their config all along next gen.
Like for previous gens at the end of it, most gamer configs will be fine or more capable..

so you can use dilute numbers to do nonsensical claim to expel this gen power frustration.
It will only hurt you same way when things will repeat

by same logic how long thoses 160-170 m current gen consoles will hold most enthusiast pc back ? (some years it seems)
 
Last edited:

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
I imagine you deny salability because your narrative can't stand without it.
Your logic pc are static box and current state is will what next will be also can't stand.
They are already pc that will be fine for next gen games.
By time next gen launch there will be even more.
And pc gamers will continue to adapt or change part or all of their config all along next gen.
Like for previous gens at the end of it, most gamer configs will be fine or more capable..

so you can use dilute numbers to do nonsensical claim to expel this gen power frustration.
It will only hurt you same way when things will repeat

by same logic how long thoses 160-170 m current gen consoles will hold most enthusiast pc back ? (some years it seems)
Actually my arguments were for scalability and how easy it is, which you and the person that also replied to me confirmed.

Therefore next gen is saved regardless of whether this Rumor is true or not.
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
No one cares about PCs performance when they make games mate. Especially AAA studios.
Only one who care are usually only PC exclusive developers and even them usually shoot over the moon with it.
Secondly consoles will have better hardware for about 1 year max much like PS4 which got outdated when next GPUs were released and even low tier part could match PS4 gpu.

As for SSDs most of people who actually play good looking games on PC have them for nearly decade. I bought my when PS3 was still a thing, even used it in PS3 in my GT5 days to make loadings shorter.
See my post above. This is all concern for nothing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Godzilla Emu

SamFo

Member
May 13, 2015
178
243
375
It feels like not long ago, people were saying "I 'm not going to go out and buy a 4k screen - I'd prefer 1080 60"
 

FireFly

Member
Aug 5, 2007
1,057
669
1,270
What percentage of those make up the total users?

What percentage are even on par with the PS4 and the XB1?

How many are going to match or exceed the rumoured Lockheart, nevermind legit PS5 and a Series X specs?
Looking at the top 20 GPUs on the Steam survey, at least 19 are on par with or better than the PS4. So that's around 60% and you can probably get to 70% by going through every card, since there are a bunch of rare high end cards. As far as Lockhart goes I count 13 of the top 20 with similar or better performance, so that's about 30%. If Steam has a 100 million users, then that's an audience of 30 million for a game targeting Lockhart level performance as a minimum.
 

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
3,244
5,356
655
Most PC users will be holding gaming back, not console players.
PCs will just have higher RAM requirements for games and won't have to rely on secret souse a.k.a. streaming. A typical 8GB RAM and 6-8GB VRAM PC already matches next-gen consoles, 16+8 setup exceeds them, and 16+11 high-end PCs are probably already next-gen ready even with HDDs, and with upcoming DDR5 and new NV/AMD GPUs the gap will probably completely vanish.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: hyperbertha

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
8,113
10,332
915
I think my point is proven.

(Way to trip,over yourselves to get me)
 
Last edited:

Kokoloko85

Member
Sep 26, 2019
1,451
1,673
375
The Xbox Series S will not hold anything but resolution on the Xbox Series S back.
Theres a bigger leap.

Just like PS4 pro will hold back ps5. Its not just Resolution and FPS: A.i, loading, amout of detail and physics in a world. Variety all require more tech.

Theres no way you can get games like God of War and Uncharted 4 on PS3 even if you make the resolution 720p 30fps.
 

93xfan

Member
Feb 23, 2013
2,509
1,244
650
What about current gen and switch ? Have you not seen how many devs skip switch due to the down port issue and all the ones coming to switch have another team working on the down port specifically for switch ? Not every dev can do that specially in case of xbox. No devs will hire 2 teams to work on xsx and xss sperately like they do for switch case (where they hire a separate team to handle it)
Very different architectures to develop for. The scaling shouldn’t be a problem using the same architecture, CPU, SSD, and RAM.

this will not require a separate team.
 
Last edited:

Leyasu

Member
Apr 25, 2014
4,916
1,109
615
I'll tell you what, the ps2 never held back some monstrously sized GTA's.

Everyone would be happy if the new GTA was of the same size and scope as San Andreas.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
See my post above. This is all concern for nothing.
No because it is wrong. Scalability doesn't work like you think it works.
If you have set minimal requirements then people will create technology to FIT those minimal requirements.
If technology can't fit into minimal requirements then they won't make that technology happen.

Era of scalability where you had vast difference between low and high settings is completely gone. At best you will see difference in shadow resolution not in tech that is used or how far LOD is set.

Games even on best hardware will use same chracters with same amount of polygons. IF game engine doesn't allow for raytrayced lighting on low end console it means they won't use at all raytraced lighting instead of preparing raytraced lighting for higher tier consoles.

This is how it works. And you can easily see it via PS4-PS4Pro and XboxOne and XboxOneX. There was no difference in how games looked other than resolution or framerate and minor detail like shadow resolution or extra shadows here and there.


So yes if Lockheart will have 6TF then the real jump between gens will be 1,2Tf to 6TF not 1,2Tf to 10TF. Extra power will be just used to increase resolution or framerate or other insignificant stuff like shadow res.
 
Last edited:

X-Fighter

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,816
4,494
390
Games even on best hardware will use same chracters with same amount of polygons. IF game engine doesn't allow for raytrayced lighting on low end console it means they won't use at all raytraced lighting instead of preparing raytraced lighting for higher tier consoles.

So yes if Lockheart will have 6TF then the real jump between gens will be 1,2Tf to 6TF not 1,2Tf to 10TF. Extra power will be just used to increase resolution or framerate or other insignificant stuff like shadow res.
Aren't they able to just turn off raytracing for Lockhart then?
 
Jan 31, 2020
784
624
330
ehhh this is all speculation.

i don't think this would work out. why give out a console that's already obsolete, regardless of how much cheaper it is? Why give out a console just a few months/half a year/whatever before the series x comes out? That feels really weird. Anyone who buys this console would clearly be better off saving for another few months to afford the Next console, no? or if they do buy this console, maybe it'll stop them from buying the series X, and diminish sales on the "flagship model"?

i dunno. this is more speculation of course, but we've seen codenamed projects before. project natal. 'durango'. 'citra'. 'white belt', 'b54 rock lobster' 'revolution' (the Wii, that time when the codename was cooler than the entire console and all of its games)... this could end up being microsoft's, you know, controller attachment drink holder. who knows~

I mean, obviously some people know better than that, i'm sure there's a reason people think it's some kind of halfway house console, but one thing i do feel is that it would be a weird marketing move. ...somewhat related to the PS Vita memory cards and such... in that it would be self-defeating, not necessarily insidious.
 
Last edited:

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
<cought> PC <cough>
Try to run Witcher3 at lowest and then at highest. And report back. Barely any difference mostly in distance of certain things not in how technnology is used.

Now do that for first Crysis. And they will look like two different games. This is what i am talking about. Era of different tech being used for different hardware is completely gone.

Aren't they able to just turn off raytracing for Lockhart then?
You are thinking about effects. I am talking about tech that will replace thing. So no they can't just turn it off because lockheart wouldn't have any lighting at all in such game.

For an example. Imagine that Mirrors Edge 1 was being released on Playstation 4 as base instead of Playstation 3. Their lighting tech is completely baked based on technology called Enlighten. Which prerenders how light bounces etc. Minus of that technology ? Can't have dynamic time, weather or anything else like that. It is completely static.

Now developers knowing that they have PS4 hardware instead of PS3 they would go for dynamic lighting because they really want to have time of day in their game where in one of levels you start at night and then you end level by dawn.

Then you get info that PS3 will be now minimum what you need to take into account not PS4.
So you switch back to static lighting because PS3 can't handle dynamic lighting at that quality and your level with that time of day is also gone.

PS4 will have also static time of day because you can't design game with two different level sets. What PS4 will receive instead will be better resolution, better framerate, shadows will have better resolution etc. Oh also those PS3 models will be reused for PS4 version because no one sane duplicates every asset in game doubling your game budget.

So in the end you are just playing PS3 game with better resolution, better framerate, maybe some better textures here and there and maybe some special effect that has no bearing on gameplay like some screen space reflections or something.

This is the difference.

If lockheart news is true then next gen bar will be set by whatever lockheart TF is. If it will be 6TF then it will be 6TF regardless of how much TF SEX or PS5 has.
 
Last edited:

Mista

Dragonslayer
Nov 21, 2014
19,735
33,709
1,360
He logically points out that next gen will be adjusted to lower common denominator aka the lowest performing console much like this gen was adjusted to Xbox One rather than Playstation 4.

No one will make Playstation 5 power default platform when they have to take into account that their game needs to run on Lockheart. Which means Playstation 5 games technology will have to be created in such way that it allows lower spec console to still have great framerate.

Either you understand that or you hit your head when was young and can't count.
And again, we have a live proof today that it won’t impact anything. Take the OG consoles and X1X/Pro for proof. Yet you lot are insisting that its going to impact the next-gen consoles when we have a live proof yet

Don’t know who hit his head honestly when people are trying to erase an existing proof just to sound right. Cute
 

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
3,244
5,356
655
Try to run Witcher3 at lowest and then at highest. And report back. Barely any difference mostly in distance of certain things not in how technnology is used.

Now do that for first Crysis. And they will look like two different games. This is what i am talking about. Era of different tech being used for different hardware is completely gone.
And that's exactly the point - modern games are able to double, tripple, or even quadrupple the framerate without sacrificing much visual details. So no matter how low-spec Lockhart would be, it would be able to easily run new games. Just the drop in resolution alone frees up so much resources it's not even funny.
 
Last edited:

Sycomunkee

Member
Jan 21, 2019
3,055
3,525
435
Theres a bigger leap.

Just like PS4 pro will hold back ps5. Its not just Resolution and FPS: A.i, loading, amout of detail and physics in a world. Variety all require more tech.

Theres no way you can get games like God of War and Uncharted 4 on PS3 even if you make the resolution 720p 30fps.
Most of that is done by the CPU, so TF don't really mean all to much in those scenarios.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
And that's exactly the point - modern games able to double, tripple, or even quadrupple the framerate without sacrificing much visual details. So no matter how low-spec Lockhart would be, it would be able to easily run new games. Just the drop in resolution alone frees up so much resources it's not even funny.
You got it backwards. Modern games get half , third or worse framerate going after insignificant details barely anyone sees as developers can't use other more expensive techniques that would make actual difference.

Here is quick example:

- Get Skyrim on modern hardware. Get Shadows from medium to ultra. You just halved framerate for almost no visual difference.
- Now take same Skyrim and give it PBR rendering like Witcher 3 has. You just halved framerate but game has amazing physic based lighting.

Only thing higher tier consoles will be able to do will be higheer framerate, better resolution, better shadows resoluton and maybe some extra effects but nothing like taking Skyrim lighting system and changing it to Witcher 3 lighting system.

Basically higher tier consoles will be able to play "remasters" of games on base consoles not remakes people think they will get.
 
Last edited:

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
And again, we have a live proof today that it won’t impact anything. Take the OG consoles and X1X/Pro for proof. Yet you lot are insisting that its going to impact the next-gen consoles when we have a live proof yet
Don’t know who hit his head honestly when people are trying to erase an existing proof just to sound right. Cute
I mean you just made my point. All PSPro/X1X games have just better resolution, framerate or extra few effects but fundamentally games look exactly the same as on lower tier consoles. Basically what they are doing is upresing base consoles games.

If 4TF rumor about lockheart is true then next gen consoles baseline will be 4TF and games will look like 4TF games not like 10TF games. Even if PS5 won't have lower tier version and will sit at 10TF aside from exclusives no one will make their games for 10TF. They will make their game for 4TF and then use 6TF to bump up resolution or framerate but technology will be exactly the same as 4TF.

To further make a point. If baseline of next gen would be PS4 then you would see PS4 games while higher tier consoles with just upres those games.
 

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
3,244
5,356
655
You got it backwards. Modern games to get half , third or worse going after insignificant details barely anyone sees as developers can't use other more expensive techniques that would make actually difference.

Here is quick example:

- Get Skyrim on modern hardware. Get Shadows from medium to ultra. You just halved framerate for almost no visual difference.
- Now take same Skyrim and give it PBR rendering like Witcher 3 has. You just halved framerate but game has amazing physic based lighting.
Well, supposedly Lockhard will have all the tech XBX will also have - VRS, DirectML, DXR, VA, and what's not, so I really cannot see it holding back its bigger brother in any other way than resolution and maybe texture quality. Unless it will be really cheap-ass console without any of the new features, which I highly doubt. All in all, the idea is there, it will all come down to execution, MS has to spec Lockhart to be noticeably cheaper then XBX, but not too cheap to strip all the main features that would also noticeably nerf the end-user experience.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
Well, supposedly Lockhard will have all the tech XBX will also have - VRS, DirectML, DXR, VA, and what's not, so I really cannot see it holding back its bigger brother in any other way than resolution and maybe texture quality.
Those are hardware technologies. What i am talking about is software technologies people come up with while making games those also have their own requirements for system power. I know it is kind of hard for newbs but i will try.

Let us assume that Sega releases now new console which will have two versions:

Base model : 0,3TF which is about as much as PS3
Pro version : 1,8TF which is you guessed it as much as PS4

Betsheda now wants to release Skyrim and CDPR wants to release Witcher 3

Betsheda:

Pro version: Works well and there is plenty of power to set resolution higher, make framerate go brr, increase shadow resolution. Minor stuff like that.
Base: Works well !

CDPR:

Pro : It works ! Barely but works !
Base: It doesn't work at all. Lighting model in Witcher 3 requires at minimum about 0,5TF to even run barebones simulation of lighting which means we have to take out nice lighting model and replace it with that from Skyrim. Out animation system and weather effects also require a lot of power so we have to get rid of them too.


That is how BASE vs PRO dictates what technologies devs use. Unless Witcher 3 will look like Skyrim it won't be able to release on those consoles. Extra power of system will be instead used to drive things like resolution or framerate like in Skyrim case.

This is why PS4 exclusives look better. Because base for them is not 1,2 xbox one TF. but PS4 1,8TF.

IF Lockheart has 4TF then all games will be equivalent of Skyrim. If Lockheart doesn't exist and base is 10TF then games will look a lot better much like Witcher 3 looks a lot better than Skyrim.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: hyperbertha

MilkyJoe

Member
Jan 29, 2014
11,101
6,692
715
You forget later in gen resolution is dropped because developers want better graphics on the same machine. PS4 until 2 years ago, almost all games was 1080p, now AAA games are below 1080p or dynamic resolution.
Then they will drop to 720p
 

hyperbertha

Member
Nov 24, 2018
1,389
4,688
460
PCs will just have higher RAM requirements for games and won't have to rely on secret souse a.k.a. streaming. A typical 8GB RAM and 6-8GB VRAM PC already matches next-gen consoles, 16+8 setup exceeds them, and 16+11 high-end PCs are probably already next-gen ready even with HDDs, and with upcoming DDR5 and new NV/AMD GPUs the gap will probably completely vanish.
Unless pc requirements are going to jump to above 50 plus GBs of ram, its not going to be able to replace SSD streaming.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: diffusionx

hyperbertha

Member
Nov 24, 2018
1,389
4,688
460
And again, we have a live proof today that it won’t impact anything. Take the OG consoles and X1X/Pro for proof. Yet you lot are insisting that its going to impact the next-gen consoles when we have a live proof yet

Don’t know who hit his head honestly when people are trying to erase an existing proof just to sound right. Cute
How do you explain Shadow of mordor having a gimped nemesis system on PS3/xbox 360 if all games can be done on lower hardware with nothing lost? This isn't about graphics. Game design can't progress if the baseline is lockhart. We currently have NO living proof as you say, because the only 'proof' is in terms of polycount, draw distance and minor graphical features that can just be scaled depending on GPU. Game design can't be 'scaled'. Unless you want a gimped version of most games on the lockhart, which makes it a non next gen system in the first place, and incapable of playing a lot of games actually designed with the ps5 as baseline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrMUR_96

X-Fighter

Member
Jan 10, 2020
2,816
4,494
390
You are thinking about effects. I am talking about tech that will replace thing. So no they can't just turn it off because lockheart wouldn't have any lighting at all in such game.
I understand, but you can just develop both, right? With or without RT. Without use a different lightning technique.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
I understand, but you can just develop both, right? With or without RT. Without use a different lightning technique.
Yes you can. In fact practices like that were standard in early PC gaming. Just fire up Diablo 2 and you can select rendering mode and in Glide you would have dynamic color lights and pseudo 3D. Almost every old PC game also had multiple models that had different polycounts for characters depending on settings you used.

The problem is that we have now modern gaming where games cost 100s of millions of dollars. No one sane will make two games, two sets of assets, two different lighting engines to satisfy higher and lower tier console. Yes some effects or some techniques can be scaled up or down but every technique has a baseline that is required and if you don't meet it you can't use it. Shadows are good example of that. You can switch shadow resolution of fly, it costs nothing. But make those shadows raytraced and suddenly you have much higher baseline. If you game can't go 30fps with just one raytraced shadow then you obviously can't use it and you will use old technique.

The only comparable thing in recent memory was FF15 and DQ9. FF15 has big console version and mobile version which is the same game but looks completely different while DQ9 has old school mode which converts 3D game into old DQ like game in 2D. In both cases that cost a lot of money to make. In FF15 case they had reason to do it because of insane mobile market money while in DQ9 they were just crazy.
 
Last edited:

ZywyPL

Report me if I continue to console war > 05/03
Nov 27, 2018
3,244
5,356
655
Those are hardware technologies. What i am talking about is software technologies people come up with while making games those also have their own requirements for system power. I know it is kind of hard for newbs but i will try.

Let us assume that Sega releases now new console which will have two versions:

Base model : 0,3TF which is about as much as PS3
Pro version : 1,8TF which is you guessed it as much as PS4

Betsheda now wants to release Skyrim and CDPR wants to release Witcher 3

Betsheda:

Pro version: Works well and there is plenty of power to set resolution higher, make framerate go brr, increase shadow resolution. Minor stuff like that.
Base: Works well !

CDPR:

Pro : It works ! Barely but works !
Base: It doesn't work at all. Lighting model in Witcher 3 requires at minimum about 0,5TF to even run barebones simulation of lighting which means we have to take out nice lighting model and replace it with that from Skyrim. Out animation system and weather effects also require a lot of power so we have to get rid of them too.


That is how BASE vs PRO dictates what technologies devs use. Unless Witcher 3 will look like Skyrim it won't be able to release on those consoles. Extra power of system will be instead used to drive things like resolution or framerate like in Skyrim case.

This is why PS4 exclusives look better. Because base for them is not 1,2 xbox one TF. but PS4 1,8TF.

IF Lockheart has 4TF then all games will be equivalent of Skyrim. If Lockheart doesn't exist and base is 10TF then games will look a lot better much like Witcher 3 looks a lot better than Skyrim.
Whatever you want to believe. Comparing old game on an old and shitty engine (Skyrim) with TWC3 is just wrong. If anything, a cross-gen title like let's say GTA5 is a better example of how different hardware affects the same game. Every single setting/feature is adjustable from Ultra/Very High/High/Medium/Low/Very Low/Off, even RT which is completely fresh tech already has three different presets, so whatever Lockhart will have under the hood, it will run XBX games just wine, and vice versa, it won't stop the devs from using XBX full potential.
 

Dontero

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
3,082
3,417
620
If anything, a cross-gen title like let's say GTA5 is a better example of how different hardware affects the same game.
No it is not because Rockstar when they rereleased GTA5 they heavily reworked game engine and graphics. They added cockpit graphics, shitload of vegetation, updated lighting model, textures and shitload of more.

It probably cost them shitload of money to redo everything.
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
975
1,218
420
Xbox has been selling fairly shit now for years. If the next xbox continues that trend and most xbox fans choose the more powerful one then the weaker lockHart will only be a small % of next gen sales after you factor in the ps5 sales

If that's the case I hope devs ignore lockHart like it doesn't exist once they start making next gen only games.
 

Flintty

Member
Apr 24, 2014
4,186
2,601
840
UK
I don’t know why so many PS fans are getting their knickers in a twist over this when they so often tell me they play Sony exclusives on PS and everything else on PC. Lockhart will not affect you, you’re just concern trolling at this point. Don’t worry, TLOU & Uncharted will be fine.
 

mrMUR_96

Member
Apr 10, 2018
90
94
225
Well in that case they will be turning of Ray tracing for the Lockhart version, and have no issues in reaching 1080p
They might design a game's lighting solely using ray tracing as it would save having to bake and would require less iteration time. Ray tracing can also be used for audio and other stuff that could become a core part of the game design. Not having enough gpu power would make make this hugely more work or even impossible.