Team Andromeda
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yuzu will pay $2.4 million in damages to Nintendo to settle their lawsuit
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Kenpachii
Member
I wonder if a group of Russian or Chinese devs took the mantle, can Nintendo sue them
U can just not focus in being in any country to start with and just develop it like emulators used to be developed on the internet.
This company pushed there luck over 9000 and only got railed half a decade later. That already shows u how little nintendo can actually do against emulation.
From what i read on the darker web is that yuzu and citra gave up because they had some illigal code/rom trade going in there company and discord channels for owners/admins. So nintendo probably got a hold on this. If this is true who knows.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
As others have said... maybe don't go around bragging you've got Tears Of The Kingdom running on your emulation platform before the game fucking releases. Any argument about 'we don't do this to pirate games' goes right out the window. They didn't have a leg to stand on.
Sleepwalker
Member
I'd like to see Nintendo sue for copyright in China, see how far they get lol. At the very least would make for some fun reading.
GHG
Gold Member
It was that, combined with patreon begging and aleggedly some stuff (ROM link sharing) going on in their official discord channels.
Emulators themselves are not illegal, bit if they are operated in the way that Yuzu was then they are asking for trouble.
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Hudo
Member
I have read somewhere that the people behind Yuzu have formed a company or so. So I guess it's possible to declare bankruptcy?
Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Emulators might not be illegal but they were making money from it and pretty sure most people were using for illegal way, of course Nintendo is going after them.....most companies would have done the same because Nintendo or any companies for that matter are not your friend.
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Lesson learned:
Don't set up your emulation company, communication server, code repo, etc. in the US. A country where it is illegal to jailbreak/hack the hardware that you bought and own. Yes, you are not allowed to do what you want with the thing you own. Completely mental.
Do it in EU, for example, where Nintendo would have much less of a leg to stand on if they tried something like that.
Don't set up your emulation company, communication server, code repo, etc. in the US. A country where it is illegal to jailbreak/hack the hardware that you bought and own. Yes, you are not allowed to do what you want with the thing you own. Completely mental.
Do it in EU, for example, where Nintendo would have much less of a leg to stand on if they tried something like that.
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GigaBowser
The bear of bad news
im sorry nintendos
Sentenza
Member
You jest, but it's probably behind the corner.So when's the next update?
I was just reading in a reddit thread that, aside for the fact that Yuzu already has a bunch of "forks", some people are already at work to continue its legacy in a new "mainline".
Given that it's open source, someone will probably just rename the project, register it under some name outside of US jurisdiction and relaunch it rather soon.
As far as the original creators are not directly involved they won't be held accountable for someone else continuing their work, either.
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onnextflix5
Member
Ok Nintendo, please just don’t sue me
Kadve
Member
Source on that? From what i understand its a bit of a grey area but Jailbreaking has been legal on most devices since 2010.
US Copyright Office Expands Jailbreaking Exemption to Roku and Apple TV * TorrentFreak
The US Copyright Office has published a list of new exemptions to the DMCA's anti-circumvention rules. Several new freedoms were granted this round, including broader right to repair permissions. The right to jailbreak also expanded to include streaming TV devices such as Roku and Apple TV...
torrentfreak.com
Now companies might have different opinions and as long as nobody takes them to court over it...
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
That's the point, though, nobody has the resources to take a big, lawyered up company to court.
Other than the state, and the state doesn't give a fuck.
Nor should anyone have to, for the right to do with your own damn hardware whatever the hell you want.
There should be no "no jailbreaking" rule with exceptions. There shouldn't be a "no jailbreaking" rule for hardware you own, period.
Which is the case outside of the US (at least in EU), so... kind of obvious which place is better suited for that kind of project, legally speaking.
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cireza
Member
So why not go against people making the illegal use ?
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Yes, why not go against millions of people around the globe impossible to actually find and pursue if you can go against just a single person or company?
.... was that a serious question?
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Nevadatan
Member
i think the lesson here is. if you want to be a pirate keep it to yourself, the lawsuit was about piracy, not emulation.
and last time i check their discord they were brazenly sharingdumps copies in there, on any other emulator discord or SNS they will sack you even attempting to mention ISOS or roms.
edit: just realized "sharing dumps" sound hilarious.
and last time i check their discord they were brazenly sharing
edit: just realized "sharing dumps" sound hilarious.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
The real news here is Nintendo found a way to "circumvent" the "right to emulate" your own stuff by implementing a security layer to their proprietary OS that effectively makes it impossible to emulate without breaking the law.
You would hope that at some point, legislation catches up and makes it unmistakeably clear that customers have a right to emulate what they legally own / have a license to.
You would hope that at some point, legislation catches up and makes it unmistakeably clear that customers have a right to emulate what they legally own / have a license to.
cireza
Member
Oh, so if you are unable to prevent people from driving too fast, then let's attack all car manufacturers instead.
Makes so much sense !
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Except you can prevent people from driving too fast and catch then fairly easily if they do with routine checks.
Which is what happens in the real world.
.... are you 13 or something? I feel like I'm talking to a child here.
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cireza
Member
So it is actually possible to catch the people who ARE the ones doing the illegal actions.
Can't find the guy who killed someone ? Attack the knife manufacturer.
Quite frankly, I feel like I am talking to a sheep.
TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
So... how do you find the millions of people emulating illegally around the globe, then, to pursue them all individually?
In a way that would be more feasible than going after the providers/developers of emulation software?
If you figure that one out, go tell Nintendo. They'd likely give you a billion or two for that knowledge.
Skyrocketing IQ display here. Came up with that one yourself?
Cause I've never heard it before.
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Banjo64
cumsessed
If the car manufacturer were encouraging people to drive at 120mph there would also be lawsuits
cireza
Member
You made the assertion that catching people who drive too fast was easy. I am curious to see in what way it is easy. Do you realize the efforts and money actually required for this to even be possible ?
Who cares anyway. Because you are incapable of pursuing the actual culprit doesn't mean that you can pursue someone else by default. It seems that yuzu did some illegal stuff, so very well. They should pay for this. But I don't think I read it was the emulator itself.
Emulators are tools and banning them because some use them for illegal means would make no sense. You are not responsible for other people's action as long as you yourself are not providing anything illegal.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
It doesn't matter if you think it make sense or not, if Nintendo sees a tool that can be used illegally to steal their property then they are going shut it down.….just like any company in the world they will do what it takes to protect their property…..they are not you friend or running some kind of charity.
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
It is fairly easy, as I wrote. Doesn't even require a lot of human interaction.
Do you have any idea how many people are caught? Not all, obviously, but more than enough to be a strong deterrent.
Unless "easy" for you means "I can do it myself right now". But for an organization such as the police, it is easily done.
You know what isn't easily done?
Catching enough people illegally emulating stuff so that it would be a strong enough deterrent to keep most others who are doing it, from doing it.
So Nintendo is doing the next-best thing.
This is true, but they DID do some illegal stuff, so... and the whole concept of emulation via doing something like jailbreaking is illegal in the US (unless it is one of the exceptions, which in this case it isn't).
Not by default, but in this case you can. And it obviously worked out for Nintendo - and likely would have even if they had no legal ground to stand on, because yuzu team likely doesn't have the resources to deal with court & lawyers.
Or the desire to do so! That's potentially years of lifetime gone and loads of stress. Frankly, I wouldn't do it even if I had the resources. Better things to spend lifetime on...
I'm not saying what Nintendo is doing is right, but it worked perfectly fine for them so far, so I can't blame them for keeping doing it.
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TheSHEEEP
Gold Member
Yeah, they were completey stupid about it.
Founding a company for it, too... I mean, c'mon. It's like they were putting up neon signs
But I'm not really worried about Switch emulation itself. At some point, someone will take it up again.
And maybe be less stupid about it.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
It was about sending a message I think
ResilientBanana
Member
Kickstarter, it go fund me.
Nevadatan
Member
i still think Nintendo wanted to go to court, i mean, they had nothing to lose, at much a couple of grands on legal fees which to their litigation funds its meaningless, they essentially have bottomless funds for that.
what i do believe happened this time, is that the dudes at Tropical Haze decided 2.4 million was a small price they could live with, specially when you remember Nintendo slammed a 14 million bill on a single guy aptly named as the villain from Mario.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
Maybe Nintendo thought they could loose and establish a precedent that would affect future similar actions .... It certainly wasn't for 2.4 million dollars. But who knows what they were/are thinking.
Edit.: just read in the other thread that yuzu and similar are closing.. so yeah. Nintendo definitely won. No need to go to court.
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Guilty_AI
Member
There was also the danger of the judge ruling out against Nintendo. Emulation won in the court once, if this case established that once more, with an even clearer and more modern definition that its perfectly ok to make and sell emulators, and that there is no problem circumventing protection measures in the equipment you own as long as its for personal use, they'd be able to do absolutely nothing against a day 1 Switch 2 emulator. Something that could potentially create an issue with them trying to sell their costumers overpriced "remasters" of Switch games.
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cireza
Member
Shows how justice is totally broken.
Nevadatan
Member
yeah, but correct me if i wrong, but the case here with yuzu was not about emulation, was about piracy.
same as the Team Xecuter lawsuit.
Guilty_AI
Member
The piracy argument is just used as a means, the court case they made was even trying to argue the piracy and emulation were basically the same thing.
Gp1
Member
Fixed for ya.
Probably the entire Nintendo's case revolves around the decryption keys that the Yuzu uses.
That, of course, and their legal team suying Yuzu into oblivion just to see what a judge would think of it.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I fully believe that many emu devs are just interested in learning about the hardware seeing how to build it out so stuff can run. Like, for example, MAME, where they have been known to replace hacks with more faithful emulation, tanking performance and pissing off the fanbase which is obviously pirating.
Yet, when articles like this exist: https://www.pcgamer.com/we-talked-t...ke-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-playable-on-pc/
Where the developers of an emulator are literally talking to a publication about how they prepped their emulator for an upcoming game, any argument that you build your emu for muh preservation or muh education goes out the window, sorry. They built their emu to pirate and they got revenue from people pirating games. They knew what they were doing, they bragged about it, and dared Nintendo to stop them. Famous last words:
As I said before, fuck 'em.
Yet, when articles like this exist: https://www.pcgamer.com/we-talked-t...ke-zelda-tears-of-the-kingdom-playable-on-pc/
Where the developers of an emulator are literally talking to a publication about how they prepped their emulator for an upcoming game, any argument that you build your emu for muh preservation or muh education goes out the window, sorry. They built their emu to pirate and they got revenue from people pirating games. They knew what they were doing, they bragged about it, and dared Nintendo to stop them. Famous last words:
Yuzu said:
As I said before, fuck 'em.
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Hardensoul
Gold Member
Their quick settlement seems to imply they did. The suit wasn’t about emulation, it’s about DMCA infringement. Which from what I’m reading Yuzu had/stole code?
Edit: pretty suspect they had games running before release dates!
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Xaeroxcore666
Member
What is the Nintendo's lawyers firm?
diffusionx
Gold Member
That's a clear violation of the settlement - look at the first paragraph.
Of course they can do it if they want and risk the consequences of getting sued by Nintendo again, if I was one of them I just wouldn't bother and target a different platform for emulation. It's WAY more trouble than it's worth.
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LordOcidax
Member
Nintendo's Ninjas
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ReyBrujo
Member
No, you go against the producers of the drug and the dealers instead of the addicts. They have taken down sites when they could but nowadays most are host in Russia or China, places where they can't do anything.
Not sure if that would be possible, you already conceded once, if you were to create a PS5 emulator Sony would be able to use this settlement.
They messed it up by posting screenshots of unreleased games running on their emulator which invited the DMCA. Then it was a matter of time until finding all the piracy inside their Discord or even their own computers. So they had to settle with all Nintendo asked for, even accepting that circumventing protection is considered illegal (we will see if the judge agrees with that). That press release Yuzu released basically blamed end users for their demise, doubt they would have written that had they been able to choose.
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Topher
Gold Member
If the car manufacturer were encouraging people to drive at 120mph there would also be lawsuits
One could argue that they do. In the United States, the maximum speed limit is 70mph and yet plenty of sports car manufacturers brag about their car's "performance". That's performance that legally should never be experienced and yet there isn't a minute in the day when someone is not breaking the law speeding.
This is from the Chevrolet Corvette web page:
https://www.chevrolet.com/performance/corvette
So yeah, I think
cireza
has a good analogy here.
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Topher
Gold Member
I'm all for emulation and preservation of games. They just have to be older games that are harder or impossible to play in a modern environment. Surly you must see the difference in emulating a current in production machine?
Although everyone here apparently only plays their bought ripped gamesyou must acknowledge that yuzu is enabling piracy of modern games. This just doesn't seem healthy for the games industry.
I've emulated plenty of games over the years but they have always been a decade or old at least. There is a difference I believe.
Right.....so you are calling those of us who rip our own games liars while admitting that you emulate old games. So where did you get those old games?
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diffusionx
Gold Member
I'm just saying, I know people are expecting Yuzu to get forked and work will continue under a different name like nothing happened, but the people involved with Yuzu legally cannot do that. They will get sued to oblivion if they violate the settlement. They'll end up like that guy who is an indentured servant of Nintendo for the rest of his life. It's not worth the trouble. I doubt they will go back to this well. I'm not saying that we will never get a Switch emulator ever again, because that's not true, but this Yuzu software, I doubt it.
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