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yuzu will pay $2.4 million in damages to Nintendo to settle their lawsuit
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Topher
Gold Member
As
Guilty_AI
pointed out in the other thread, pirates don't need Yuzu at all. You don't even need a PC. They can play the pirated games directly on their Switch. And they will continue to do so. This stopped next to nothing as far as pirates are concerned. Just makes things harder for those who want to use emulators legally.
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tkscz
Member
This has been on my mind since it was announced they settled. Nintendo has been stopped over and over from removing emulators because they are legal software, but somehow they managed to take down Yuzu and no one questions how? Tropical Haze got Tears of the Kingdom running before the game even released and no one here is questioning that. I still remember the bragging over how it happened so fast, and how many people were saying it would get them in trouble. Well, we were right, they got in trouble for it.
I guarantee this happened because of the TotK leak and that game came out LESS than a year ago. Takes a while to get a lawsuit up and going.Nintendo always slow as fuck
Why wait till the final days of switch to do this????
The damage has already been done.
Topher
Gold Member
You are probably right. Yuzu got cocky and crossed a line.
Astray
Member
We're not in disagreement about the nature of a LLC.
What I am talking about is why the specific amount of 2.4m was selected? If what you are saying is true, then it would be equally true if it was say, 2.2m or 2.6m.
I think the reason they chose this is because they wanted the LLC to get bankrupted, and picked a settlement amount that was just a bit above whatever assets the company had. Which leads to the question of how did these guys even get to this amount of money?
This is the biggest proof of Switch 2 being backwards compatible imo.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
I'm not a lawyer and I don't have any sort of inside details - but my guess would be they arrived at this number based entirely on the Patreon monthly earnings x number of months that Yuzu has been collecting Patreon earnings. They launched their Patreon in January 2018 and made $30,000 per month (although obviously it took them until TOTK came out to get to those numbers). 74 months x $30,000 = $2,220,000 which is really close to the $2.4m number.
There may have also been a factor of "you made, at most, this amount - so that's the amount we want", but again I'm not privy to the actual details. My guess is that they had nowhere even close to that amount ready to hand over.
ReBurn
Gold Member
Accepting money for the emulator, even indirectly via patreon, was most likely their downfall. It makes a pretty compelling case that they were profiting from piracy.
Astray
Member
Probably.
Someone on another site also suggested that their credit scores might suffer too, which is honestly excessive if true.
Keep in mind that I call them knuckleheads and shit, but they are still people and I'm a bleeding heart irl.
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pepodmc_
Member
i would say that , on the gaming scene in general its too late.
What i mean is that, now that microsoft and sony are putting their games on PC (even more in the future) emulators are going to be things from the past aside nintendo consoles.
Its not necessary to emulate sony or microsoft new consoles anymore.
Its a shame that, perhaps this W from nintendo will scare future devs of trying of emulate new nintendo consoles, but the harm to the emulation scene would have been a lot bigger if this happened 10 or 15 years ago.
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SoloCamo
Member
I've never seen two absolutely horrible bad takes back to back in such an obvious fashion that it made me want to just log out.
VolticArchangel
Member
pepodmc_
Member
depends.
Yuzu shader cache is transferable, the only thing that prevents it to be perfect is that, the shader version of the emulator changes from time to time with new updates. So the shader caches becomes invalidated after some months.
If you search on the internet , you will find transferable shader caches working for yuzu versions until january if im not wrong, because at that date, the shader version of the emulator changed, so all that list of yuzu shader caches dont work in the last versions of the emu.
Watch the yuzu part:
Shader caches - Emulation General Wiki
emulation.gametechwiki.com
If Yuzu stops its development, the shader version of the emulator will be always the same. People would put their complete shader cache on the internet like people did with cemu and problem solved.
Kumomeme
Member
i already expected this stuff would happen sooner or later the moment there is flood of people bragging about their PC particularly with Steamdecks running Yuzu with pirate games especially during Nintendo's latest game launch period.
i see this everywhere, even see people come in Switch group in social media, site like reddit or even youtube bragging and laughing to other Switch users about how superior it run on their PC especially since Steamdecks are exist and offering great portable experience. at same time even laughing at Switch users who bought their game claiming you can get it free through piracy. there is bickering from both sides. bruh, all those game they played for free wont exist if these people not bought Nintendo's game at first place.
how well or bad it run on Switch compared to other devices is entirely different matter. in the end without games there is no performance to be compare at.
i own Switch, buy their game, but also use Yuzu *cough
but these kind of people could not keep their mouth shut and unwanted attention usually has consequences. for atleast 6 years since initial release of Yuzu, Nintendo keep watching and let it happening but so far Yuzu might has most attention compared to others emulator. this stuff might be avoided or delayed if people keep it down abit IMO.
well yeah there is stuff about their patreon etc. that played role and i think Nintendo also aware that Yuzu are not responsible about those piracy things as per their regulation but it might be a hassle trying to combat tons of others piracy site out there so they probably thinking it is faster just to cut of the 'snake head'. obviously this wont stop piracy or separate people to keep developing the emulators or fork of it later but from what i see they also simply want to leave a 'warning' message. all these times lot of people think that big company cant do nothing to stuff like this and basically are 'untouchable' so this moment might has an impact in in emulation scene in future.
i see this everywhere, even see people come in Switch group in social media, site like reddit or even youtube bragging and laughing to other Switch users about how superior it run on their PC especially since Steamdecks are exist and offering great portable experience. at same time even laughing at Switch users who bought their game claiming you can get it free through piracy. there is bickering from both sides. bruh, all those game they played for free wont exist if these people not bought Nintendo's game at first place.
how well or bad it run on Switch compared to other devices is entirely different matter. in the end without games there is no performance to be compare at.
i own Switch, buy their game, but also use Yuzu *cough
but these kind of people could not keep their mouth shut and unwanted attention usually has consequences. for atleast 6 years since initial release of Yuzu, Nintendo keep watching and let it happening but so far Yuzu might has most attention compared to others emulator. this stuff might be avoided or delayed if people keep it down abit IMO.
well yeah there is stuff about their patreon etc. that played role and i think Nintendo also aware that Yuzu are not responsible about those piracy things as per their regulation but it might be a hassle trying to combat tons of others piracy site out there so they probably thinking it is faster just to cut of the 'snake head'. obviously this wont stop piracy or separate people to keep developing the emulators or fork of it later but from what i see they also simply want to leave a 'warning' message. all these times lot of people think that big company cant do nothing to stuff like this and basically are 'untouchable' so this moment might has an impact in in emulation scene in future.
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Pejo
Gold Member
Basically lines up with what I read when the lawsuit was first announced. The reason they had a case this time opposed to other emulators is that Yuzu could not work as a program to do its intended purpose without circumventing digital protections (in this case, the prod.keys file). Under DMCA this makes it illegal. If it could run games without requiring that file, then from what I understand, Nintendo wouldn't be able to do anything about it.
Legally it never had anything to do with TotK, recency of games being emulated, Patreon making them money, etc. That was all misdirection stuff. Not to say that those things weren't pissing off Nintendo, but legally they couldn't do anything about it.
Legally it never had anything to do with TotK, recency of games being emulated, Patreon making them money, etc. That was all misdirection stuff. Not to say that those things weren't pissing off Nintendo, but legally they couldn't do anything about it.
StereoVsn
Member
Yep, and pirates can also hard mod even OLED. As usual people affected most were actual customers.As
onnextflix5
Member
Don’t think they want Nintendo after them, it’s fairly easy to install both emulators outside of emudeck, and yeh fuck Nintendo, won’t be buying anything from them anymore
MLSabre
Member
It's Dolphin and the Wii keys all over again. They never learn, do they?
ReyBrujo
Member
Pirates use both and Nintendo is actively pursuing both, as soon as you connect to the internet with a modded Switch it gets banned. Yuzu knew that and they got cocky/greedy. People shouldn't get angry at the big corporation for being corporation-like and doing what they have done since Game Genie, they should get angry at the folks at Yuzu. At least that's my take.
angrod14
Member
In my country almost nobody buys Nintendo games in legit manner. People just get their Switches "unlocked" and then download the entire catalogue freely. For the price of one original Nintendo game, you can get your Switch hacked and then download all the games you want. Zero fucks given, and has always been like this for Nintendo hardware. Old PS consoles also got hacked but since PS4 nobody really bothers, people buy legit PS games no problem. Xbox is all Gamepass.
I do purchase the legit way, though, as I don't like my hardware to be tinkered with, and I can afford all the games I want. But it's hard to sympathyse with all these companies nevertheless. Extremely litigious, predatory and overprotective.
I do purchase the legit way, though, as I don't like my hardware to be tinkered with, and I can afford all the games I want. But it's hard to sympathyse with all these companies nevertheless. Extremely litigious, predatory and overprotective.
ReyBrujo
Member
Sounds like Latin America, more specifically Argentina!
angrod14
Member
Very, very close.
bender
What time is it?
As
While I think there is some validity to the beginning of your statement, I can't say I agree with the bolded. It's about paths of least resistance as people are generally lazy. If you don't present hoops for them to jump through, they'll take those paths. I'd also argue, with facts straight from my ass plate, that the vast, vast majority of emulator use isn't for legal purposes. We have people here bragging about it all the time (most recently for a popular indie title). The only member I've seen mentioning dumping his own games and probably the only member I trust on the matter is
jshackles
. But to be fair, I always assume the worst of people. I'm not anti-emulation and I don't really care if someone pirates or not, but I'm also not going to be surprised when companies try to fight against it. What does surprise me is when these groups fly to close to the sun, most recently with Dolphin getting announced for Steam which goes back to my first point of path of least resistance. If you make things too convenient, expect pushback, especially if you don't have all your i's dotted and t's crossed.
Buggy Loop
Member
Brazil?
I was part of an international company and at some point a team of Brazilians came to Canada to work. Prices & taxes over there are so crazy that they are almost never legit. I guess its true for many countries in fact.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Kind of surprised Nintendo went after them but they were making money with an emu to a console Nintendo has been selling and supporting, fuck 'em.
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angrod14
Member
Paraguay.
poodaddy
Member
You can "fucking hate" it as much as you want champ, it doesn't make it any less true. If I drive an F250 through your living room because I decided to be an irresponsible asshole, are you gonna ban Fords? And yeah, I'm for responsible gun laws but guess what? I'm a veteran and a gun owner so yeah, I'm definitely one of those "guns don't kill people" guys too, so you and I are clearly just not gonna see eye to eye in general.
Me, I believe in personal responsibility. Emulation is literally the best thing imaginable for preservation of games as an art, as Nintendo clearly doesn't give as much of a shit about preserving their legacy titles as their fans do, and there's definitely nothing wrong with wanting to play Nintendo's amazing titles with better performance and resolutions. Just because there are shitheads out there doing the wrong thing doesn't mean emulation is at fault. We all need to start acting like adults man, you're responsible for your actions, not the actions of others.
Topher
Gold Member
While I think there is some validity to the beginning of your statement, I can't say I agree with the bolded. It's about paths of least resistance as people are generally lazy. If you don't present hoops for them to jump through, they'll take those paths. I'd also argue, with facts straight from my ass plate, that the vast, vast majority of emulator use isn't for legal purposes. We have people here bragging about it all the time (most recently for a popular indie title). The only member I've seen mentioning dumping his own games and probably the only member I trust on the matter is
Completely fair take. There are a few more, including myself, who I know have dumped our own games.
IFireflyl
and
StereoVsn
have mentioned it and this was in conversations long before this Yuzu debacle began. I get being suspicious of others in anonymous situations though.For the record, I'm no longer dumping Switch games as I sold my Switch a few weeks ago. I mentioned that before all this in other posts. Currently the only emulation I'm doing is PS2 and PS3. All from physical media I own.
And yeah, vast majority of emulation is from illegally obtained ROMs. No way to deny that, but no reason for those who emulate legally to worry about it. I have no problems with any company fighting piracy. I just disagree on targeting emulation. Having said that, Yuzu did a hell of a lot to bring this on themselves. Not going to deny that either.
onnextflix5
Member
If it’s so compelling, why did they not go to court, it’s not like Nintendo doesn’t have the money, could have ended all emulation once and for all, it’s clear both parties did not want to go court, yuzu don’t have money and Nintendo just didn’t want to risk losing,
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IFireflyl
Gold Member
Completely fair take. There are a few more, including myself, who I know have dumped our own games.
For the record, I'm no longer dumping Switch games as I sold my Switch a few weeks ago. I mentioned that before all this in other posts. Currently the only emulation I'm doing is PS2 and PS3. All from physical media I own.
And yeah, vast majority of emulation is from illegally obtained ROMs. No way to deny that, but no reason for those who emulate legally to worry about it. I have no problems with any company fighting piracy. I just disagree on targeting emulation. Having said that, Yuzu did a hell of a lot to bring this on themselves. Not going to deny that either.
I still have my Switch, but the last game I got was Tears of the Kingdom. It didn't captivate me, and I haven't purchased (or pirated!) anything since then. I think I'm done with Switch until the Switch 2 comes out.
Topher
Gold Member
Pretty much the same. Felt like I played everything I wanted to play really and decided to move on.
Musashipan
Member
Only 2.4 million?
That's not enough
That's not enough
SoloCamo
Member
Back to NES / SNES / N64 / GC emulation at this point anyways as most of the fun Nintendo games are found there *stares at my OLED Switch with disgust*. Don't even recall the last time I powered up my Wii let alone used a Wii U.
So how was dinner with Miyamoto?
So how was dinner with Miyamoto?
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majorgamer10
Member
I will never understand the point of Yuzu. I play the Switch for simplicity sake. Why would anyone take a child's toy and make it complex?
2.4 million is nothing.
2.4 million is nothing.
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Dirk Benedict
Member
Thing is, there are multiple versions of this emulator, now. Meaning, there are people working on their own versions of this. The damage is done and to think they walked away with a 2.4milly hit like that is lucky. I wonder what this means for other emulators? Ryujinx? Etc...
SoloCamo
Member
Yea man I do love me some 90's resolution and frame rates. Simpler times back then. I've been on 4k 28" monitor's since 2014 - the switch in docked mode is a joke. I bought a brand new laptop in Jan 2020 for $350 that will run circles around my late 2021 OLED switch while offering way more value and benefits for both work and gaming. Nintendo is kind of the grime master at this point and anyone defending it clearly is blind.
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Musashipan
Member
I don't understand, the lawyers from neogaf assured everyone that Nintendo had no chances of winning this!
Klosshufvud
Member
Very fishy how fast this went down. How reliable are these back door deals in which we have zero insight? Similar court cases never went the way of the accuser. This was no different. I'm thinking this whole thing is about sending a message for Switch 2 and Nintendo was willing to do whatever behind closed doors to scare up the scene.
Klosshufvud
Member
Since it wasn't an actual court verdict, it's impossible to know what's true or what's just agreed-upon statements.
Unknown Soldier
Member
LOL they were raking in $30k a month from their Patreon, there was no way Nintendo was going to leave them alone for making that much money to enable piracy
Nintendo has never gone after emulators where the creators aren't profiting. This is a warning shot to Ryujinx too, since they also have a Patreon
Nintendo has never gone after emulators where the creators aren't profiting. This is a warning shot to Ryujinx too, since they also have a Patreon
Unknown Soldier
Member
Also $2.4M is a pretty specific number, it's likely that Nintendo decided they'll just confiscate what Yuzu's Patreon made. They should be glad Nintendo didn't try to personally bankrupt all of them to prove a nasty point
The fact that they capitulated this quickly and settled suggests they knew they had no case, once they made a profit their asses were grass if Nintendo came calling. Like I said, Nintendo doesn't go after emulators which aren't trying to make a profit
The fact that they capitulated this quickly and settled suggests they knew they had no case, once they made a profit their asses were grass if Nintendo came calling. Like I said, Nintendo doesn't go after emulators which aren't trying to make a profit
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BloodborneHat3r
Neo Member
I wonder if a group of Russian or Chinese devs took the mantle, can Nintendo sue them
Horatius
Member
never give takes on legal matters again please, thanks
buenoblue
Member
I'm all for emulation and preservation of games. They just have to be older games that are harder or impossible to play in a modern environment. Surly you must see the difference in emulating a current in production machine?
Although everyone here apparently only plays their bought ripped games
you must acknowledge that yuzu is enabling piracy of modern games. This just doesn't seem healthy for the games industry. I've emulated plenty of games over the years but they have always been a decade or old at least. There is a difference I believe.