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Zelda for Wii U reveal @ Nintendo Treehouse: Live by Reggie, June 14 6PMCEST
- Thread starter CaVaYeRo
- Start date
Captain Smoker
Member
Wait, isn't this pic / artwork in the video new?
Edit: Ok, it's just an deviantart-artwork lol
http://pre12.deviantart.net/2be7/th...d_of_zelda__u____link_by_rockxass-d7ltyrr.jpg
WiiredShawn
Member
Wait, isn't this pic / artwork in the video new?
Edit: Ok, it's just an deviantart-artwork lol
http://pre12.deviantart.net/2be7/th...d_of_zelda__u____link_by_rockxass-d7ltyrr.jpg
Nah, it's fan art.
EDIT: Beaten like an egg.
Although it does go to show the sheer dearth of released assets for this game.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
So its bigger than XCX? When did he say that?
LegendofLex
Member
I'd argue that Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime Trilogy are both much better motion controlled games, and both of them were already out when SS released.
WiiredShawn
Member
It's hard to know exactly what Aonuma meant. His exact translated quote was:
That doesn't necessarily mean "the game world = size of Kyoto" in strict square mileage. It could just mean "the size of this game world gives me a similar feeling as walking around Kyoto." Aonuma also mentioned that he wants players to "make a plan when you’re travelling", just in "real life".
Source
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Hmmm.. yeah that can be interpreted 10 ways
Simbabbad
Member
You can add Kororinpa, Trauma Center, Sin & Punishment 2, Elebits, Resident Evil 4, Pikmin and Pikmin 2, Pandora's Tower, Disaster Day of Crisis, Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort to the list.
Skyward Sword has a mundane use of motion controls, like:
::enemy strikes a pause with its left flank open, stays immobile::
:
layer strikes left flank::OooOOOoooh, so impressive. Skyward Sword combat is basically Simon Says.
LegendofLex
Member
Skyward Sword has a mundane use of motion controls, like:
::enemy strikes a pause with its left flank open, stays immobile::
:
OooOOOoooh, so impressive. Skyward Sword combat is basically Simon Says.
On paper, it's exactly the same as Zelda II, which I don't think anyone would compare to Simon Says. You keep abreast of your enemy's guard and try to get a hit in where they're exposed.
In practice, they made the enemy AI so non-aggressive (the enemies basically stand there unless you fuck up several times) and the enemy density so pathetic (the very first pack of Bokoblins you fight is the largest one you see until the end of the game) that it's nothing like Zelda II.
Simbabbad
Member
So in other words, you disagree with me but you agree with me
?In Zelda II you really feel like enemies are trying to kill you. In Skyward Sword they're all like: "come on, man, COME ON, hit left, I'm waitiiiiiing".
The motion controls "work". Do they add anything? Nope. Do they remove things? Hell yes, group attacks, pacing, believability, excitement, etc.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yall are gonna spawn ragonarok lol
Meesh
Member
I'm kinda with you on this... It disturbs the battle pacing. However if they used motion controls in such a way where basic enemies were almost inconsequential, as in you could freely attack them anywhere and remove armor/have visible damage/or say they rewarded you for dispatching enemies with various strikes...the battle might be faster paced and hopefully less shallow than I'm conveying. Boss battles could be different of course, they always are...So in other words, you disagree with me but you agree with me
In Zelda II you really feel like enemies are trying to kill you. In Skyward Sword they're all like: "come on, man, COME ON, hit left, I'm waitiiiiiing".
The motion controls "work". Do they add anything? Nope. Do they remove things? Hell yes, group attacks, pacing, believability, excitement, etc.
Sadly in way, we'll never know what could've been since they'll probably never take a stab at another motion Zelda experience...maybe if they refine SS for an HD overhaul?
reelbigtink
Member
I haven't 100% kept up with the thread but has a Zelda series/movie announcement been discussed? Since the entire booth will be Zelda-land and the game is the only playable demo it seems like Nintendo is going all-in on some Zelda stuff. I understand other properties will be announced and demoed (not playable) but that's a huge level of Zelda immersion for just one game.
Meesh
Member
Disney/Pixar outta get on that!!!
Hey, it could be good?
You might as well say that of all 3D Zelda combat. You Z-Target, wait for the enemy to to lower their defense, and then press a button.You can add Kororinpa, Trauma Center, Sin & Punishment 2, Elebits, Resident Evil 4, Pikmin and Pikmin 2, Pandora's Tower, Disaster Day of Crisis, Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort to the list.
Skyward Sword has a mundane use of motion controls, like:
::enemy strikes a pause with its left flank open, stays immobile::
:
OooOOOoooh, so impressive. Skyward Sword combat is basically Simon Says.
With Skyward Sword you couldn't just stand there all day with your shield up like in previous games. You had to actively time your blocks to avoid damaging your shield. Also enemy AI patterns and the amount of attacks for you to choose from were increased. Plus you had choices of shields, and in a really smart move they gave you a reason to want to go back to wooden shields over metal shields. All in all it was a great improvement over combat of Wind Waker and Twilight Princess where you'd have to be absolutely terrible to even get hit by an enemy and if they did you'd take half a heart most of the time.
This was my analysis of the size of the map back when the Game Awards footage came out: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142644379&postcount=133
Someone based their estimate on taking Aonuma at his word that it would take 5 minutes to reach their destination, even though they were no longer heading toward the same destination they were heading for earlier. I based mine on the actual speed Link was crossing the map and an estimated speed of how fast Epona would be. If Epona could run a straight flat path between two diagonal corners of the map I'd say it'd take about 30 minutes to cross that distance.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Am I the only person who played the entire game without a shield? (apart from the section where you were forced to use it as it was just introduced)
That part about using Kyoto as a base is interesting. Kyoto lies in a valley surrounded by mountains and the map of Zelda is basically bowl-shaped as well, though there is a section bordering the sea. He might have been inspired by both the scale and the geography.
Simbabbad
Member
Nope. Enemies in Skyward Sword are never ending tutorials, they behave like they're drugged and want you to hit them, they take ages to themselves hit and always take unnatural pauses as blatant hints. They have zero aggressiveness, they never ever attack in groups and instead wait in line for you to kill them. Combat is also entirely static, you don't need to move at all in most of them. I've never ever seen enemies in any other video game that want so much the player to kill them. There is no other game where enemies seem to say "OK, now it's your time to strike" that much. Meanwhile, what's the benefit?
And all this was done by design because the Wiimote spent its time decalibrating, and couldn't differentiate a strike from repositioning.
:
ukes::Skyward Sword doesn't have "combat", it has very slow games of Simon Says. They managed to make motion control combat "work", and by doing so proved how worthless a concept it was. No wonder nobody in the team wanted to do it, and it had to be imposed by Iwata to advertise Wii Motion+. And I happen to love motion controls, BTW - when they make sense.
Learn what? I never lost a fight in Skyward Sword. Is it even possible?
To be fair every boss in every action game ever stops to say "Ok, now it's your time to strike"
Aldric
Member
They do attack in group actually, which ironically completely destroys the point of the combat, as it devolves into a chaotic brawl where you beat up legions of dumb bots by flailing like a dingus as if you were playing a bad motion controlled musou game.
You folks are extremely literal.
This is what I said:
Looking for where I said Zelda U should be exactly like Majora's Mask. Can't find it. What I did imply was that non-linear progression and linear story don't exactly fit. So if Zelda U is moving away from a a fixed order of events as Aonuma stated then it can't have a story like Twilight Princess, for example. A story consisting of multiple overlapping arcs all united by an underlying theme would make more sense and that's a whole lot closer to Majora's Mask than other 3D Zeldas.
Another excellent attirbute of Zelda:MM was how well it demonstrated the immediacy of the threat to the world. It wasn't just some villain waiting patiently for you to come to their castle; it was a menacing moon that was operating on its own schedule and could be seen from almost anywhere in the world. How could the new Zelda game bottle some of that tension without rehashing the moon concept? That's the kind of thing I'm thinking about.
It would be awesome to have a Zelda thread akin to the NX one where we collect all quotes and news concerning Zelda U up to this point. I always love reading up on this stuff, and having it in one place would be awesome.
That said, I don't know if such a thread is allowed to exist.
That said, I don't know if such a thread is allowed to exist.
SweetDonuts
Member
After watching IGN's video I went back and watched the Game Awards footage and got kind of hyped, it's going to be glorious to see actual gameplay from a direct feed.
What timezone are you in? 6pm CEST, 5pm GMT, 9am PT.
What timezone are you in? 6pm CEST, 5pm GMT, 9am PT.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Where do you live wtf?
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Well hold on now, red steel 2 gives it a damn good run for its money
Simbabbad
Member
Two differences, though:
1) The time they spend like this - in Skyward Sword it's a ridiculously large time window, they spend more time waiting for your to strike without doing anything than attacking or just moving around and do it much less subtly. Compare this to, say, Monster Hunter, and it hurts.
2) Standard enemies behave that way too, not just bosses.
It's extremely rare, most of the time they patiently wait in line, precisely because groups + motion controls don't work. But yeah, the motion controls caused tons of problem without adding anything, the trade-off isn't just worth it. And having to be very careful to slow down when you reposition yourself so the game doesn't think it's a strike is one of the most annoying thing I've seen in an action game ever.
IMO Red Steel 2 manages motion controls better than Skyward Sword, but has other issues. The plug has clearly been pulled during development, making them finish the game off in a hurry when it appeared the market wasn't there. The otherwise excellent Rabbids Go Home was a victim of the same thing. Shame, but Ubi Soft did try (too late) Wii development.
ReyVGM
Member
Not really. You can have NPCs with schedules just like MM without having a time loop. The sidequest from a character would just be done in "stages". Once you complete the 1st part of the sidequest, the NPC will just retain that position until you complete the next part.
For example, a NPC is outside her house waiting for her daughter. She asks for you to find where she is, starting the sidequest. You find out her daughter is at a lake outside town, and you tell the woman. 1st "stage" of the sidequest is done.
The woman goes to the lake, but her daughter is no longer there. You talk to her again and she asks you to find out where she went now, starting the 2nd "stage" of the sidequest. Now, let's say night comes. The woman will leave the lake, go to her house, and once morning hits, she'll go back to the lake and stay there until you solve the 2nd "stage" of the sidequest.
What I would really love is if they keep the real time aspects of the NPCs with schedules. Meaning, that if I follow someone, I will actually see them going towards another part of the map without "warping" there like most games do.
Judging by how much they showed for Xenoblade Chronicles X in trailers and the Treehouse segment, I expect for them to show the opening segments including the story intro, opening town, world, the map, and possibly the entirely of the first dungeon.
I'm alright with all of that, but just don't show the map. It probably doesn't look like the one we saw over a year ago, so I would rather have the size of the map as a surprise for when I actually play the game.
SweetDonuts
Member
As they're pushing this as a huge open world Zelda I think the map is one of the key points they're going to stress throughout E3. I also don't think it will have changed at all from what we saw at the GA so it might not even be a 'spoiler' in any sense.
crooked spin
Member
I think the size and geography of the world map is going to be one of the trumpeted "new" features so surely it will be front and center at E3.
Combat in skyward sword was turned into a 'directional puzzle' and by its very nature had to be slowed down to be done that way. The enemies move and behave unnaturally likely due to testing motion controls against them. If they behaved naturally, they'd either be too responsive to fight easily or their weak points would remain mostly static and be too easy.
So, I agree it's not as thrilling to fight them as in past zelda games, but they're definitely not simpler, just more overt and slower. You couldn't do motion + puzzle combat without slowing enemies down, making semi-obvious tells, and having them come at you one-by-one. It's like that by design and because it HAD to be that way to make motion controls work. Unfortunate if that's not what you're looking for in combat in a game.
As I said, combat was some sort of puzzle this time, and that may or may not have appealed to you. For those who play zelda for the puzzle aspects, this added more 'puzzles' to the game, albeit a lot of repetitive ones. For those who play zelda for action or adventure, this may not have been as fun for you.
There are other ways to turn zelda combat into a puzzle, but most of them have been done before. Enemies having weak points or that are weak to certain items (arrow to the eye, hookshot to remove armor/shield, etc). I'd be curious how they make combat a puzzle this time. To me, stealth games are puzzle combat with the downside of 'waiting/hiding.' MGSV had good puzzle combat where gunfights were what you resorted to if you failed the sneaking puzzle. That's one possible approach for Zelda U - an enemy camp where you need to sneakily take out the enemies without being noticed or some sort of downside. Maybe they have a treasure chest and if you trigger the alarm, the chest burns and you don't get the extra rupees.
The two combat encounters we've seen so far involve using a special item on an enemy weak point (magic arrow on rock tektite) and a standard 'shoot enemy until it dies' scenario which is standard zelda trash-mob fare. I'd love if we had other, fresher enemy encounters.
So, I agree it's not as thrilling to fight them as in past zelda games, but they're definitely not simpler, just more overt and slower. You couldn't do motion + puzzle combat without slowing enemies down, making semi-obvious tells, and having them come at you one-by-one. It's like that by design and because it HAD to be that way to make motion controls work. Unfortunate if that's not what you're looking for in combat in a game.
As I said, combat was some sort of puzzle this time, and that may or may not have appealed to you. For those who play zelda for the puzzle aspects, this added more 'puzzles' to the game, albeit a lot of repetitive ones. For those who play zelda for action or adventure, this may not have been as fun for you.
There are other ways to turn zelda combat into a puzzle, but most of them have been done before. Enemies having weak points or that are weak to certain items (arrow to the eye, hookshot to remove armor/shield, etc). I'd be curious how they make combat a puzzle this time. To me, stealth games are puzzle combat with the downside of 'waiting/hiding.' MGSV had good puzzle combat where gunfights were what you resorted to if you failed the sneaking puzzle. That's one possible approach for Zelda U - an enemy camp where you need to sneakily take out the enemies without being noticed or some sort of downside. Maybe they have a treasure chest and if you trigger the alarm, the chest burns and you don't get the extra rupees.
The two combat encounters we've seen so far involve using a special item on an enemy weak point (magic arrow on rock tektite) and a standard 'shoot enemy until it dies' scenario which is standard zelda trash-mob fare. I'd love if we had other, fresher enemy encounters.
ReyVGM
Member
I am 99% sure the map will be different. I mean, death mountain will still be to the north and the lakes/sea to the right/bottom. But the layout, roads, rivers, forests, towns, etc. will be different. Have you seen how much Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, and Twilight Princess changed from when they were first shown to what the final product looked like?
There's a perpetual dense forest they keep showing in early Zelda games that ends up being removed for the final game. I hope they finally get to add that in this time around.
TheCongressman1
Member
Uuuggnnn, you're not the only one.
Although, they apparently called the slightly wooded area in the demo video 'dense', so I'm not holding my breath to hard.
SweetDonuts
Member
I assumed you meant size and general locations. Things would have definitely have changed but we haven't really seen much of the map for it to really matter.
SS
That can't be correct, D and W use the same character, as well as E and K, G and Q, I and X, O and Z, P and T.
That's the way it is. Some English letters share a Hylian character. The ALBW alphabet does the same thing, but with different letters.
Dark Cloud
Member
Are we a little bit over a month to E3?!
RomanceDawn
Member
I've been expecting co-op since 2013:
From pages ago this!
I feel like we are going to get some meaningful co-op but not like a Mario 3D World free for all. I'm thinking a 2 player only type of system. Maybe boy Link and girl Link with similar abilities but honestly I have a feeling it's going to be asymmetric. Link is controlled just as he always had with the gamepad or something with a little helper thing(fairy/animal/spirit etc) controlling in a much different way but still very meaningful. Think the Tingle Tuner or Galaxy 2's multiplayer but with the 2nd player actually controlling something they can see, fight and solve puzzles with.
If I could be a fairy(of meaningful size) or dragon(Mushu like?) that follows Link around picking up items, attacking bad guys and really making a difference in gameplay and puzzles I would be over the moon!
No, let me be Link's trusty owl buddy!
Retromelon
Member
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
We are exactly 30 days from Zelda on treehouse
Started playing TPHD hero mode with Ganondorf amiibo and the game is really more fun with the difficult up. I had to use money to buy bottles of red potion and even died for the first time at the first temple boss. I really hope nintendo adds a similar option for the new Zelda.
About the controls, i played TP on wii multiple times but never on GC. So It felt a little strange playing it on the gamepad. I loved SS controls and I would like nintendo to continue with 1:1 sword play. It was really fun to use the shield with the nunckuck and fight the stalfos. Maybe NX will have an advanced wiimote!? I hope so
About the controls, i played TP on wii multiple times but never on GC. So It felt a little strange playing it on the gamepad. I loved SS controls and I would like nintendo to continue with 1:1 sword play. It was really fun to use the shield with the nunckuck and fight the stalfos. Maybe NX will have an advanced wiimote!? I hope so
thechristoph
Sir!
Is ther going to be a way to view this on the Wii U? Rather watch it on the tv than a PC.
YouTube on the Wii U, I don't use the app I just use the web browser.
I have no idea, but why would you want to do that?