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Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 | The 'Verse Awakens

iHaunter

iHaunter

Member
FPS looks decent.

Of course it'll be more polished as time goes on.

It's crazy to think the Ship to Space to Planet and back again sort of works on their build.
 
Eolz

Eolz

Member
Krisprolls said:
I'm amazed you can't see it's vaporware. He'll ask you for more money every time with new ships and fake demos.
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image.php
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
I've been very defensive of the game so far, but SQ42 still not ready to be shown off said to be almost done 2 months ago is not good, especially when 3 or so weeks before citizencon they said it was looking hopefull that they'd get it done in time. They weren't planning on just faking things for the demo last time either, so how were they almost done with it 2 months ago if all those things were needed but were nowhere near ready?
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They gave the explicit reason why. They stopped work on demo entirely to focus on other things. There is a reason demo's have died of in recent generations. And basically has been reported on and explained over and over. The point to pay attention to is

fter all the effort we expended for CitizenCon, we didn’t want to spend additional developer time polishing intermediate solutions if it wasn’t going towards the final product. A slick demo isn’t that helpful if it pushes back the finished game, so we decided that the priority should be completing full systems over getting the vertical slice into a showable state.
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And that is why prelaunch demos while nice are very hard to trust because final product ends up being different sometimes in minor ways, sometimes in major ways. But given how often CIG is attacked, for showing things, not showing things, leaked images, technical difficulties in a stream. It makes perfect sense for them to aim for finishing the product instead of producing a fixed vertical slice which would eat into resources and may simply only be used as a tool to attack CIG again if final product ends up changing.

masterkajo said:
I am sorry if you misunderstood. I am being a bit sarcastic here. I backed the project and have full faith in it. They will deliver the best game but it will take very long.

You could see that the monitor was a fake of course. I was just kidding.
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My apologies. I didn't catch that.

iHaunter said:
I agree, but there are ships that are 3+ years old that haven't been worked on. Maybe the pipeline isn't there for some of the larger ships, but that also is a problem.
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Well they already addressed this repeatedly from earlier statements. Ship priority is for military ships and things you will see in Squadron 42. So larger ships that do not have a military purpose or not in S42 is on back burner. They already shown of Idris, javelin and bengal with the guns of the UEE, and they seem to be either finished or close to finished. The PU will have a separate path as reported and they already mapped it out here and here (from this very thread).
 
R

RubberJohnny

Banned
KKRT00 said:
Please ...
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All of their communication with backers has become marketing events to sell new ships or packages and the only thing with any actual effort put into it is adverts for new stuff to buy.

Compare and contrast the effort put into any part of this showing new stuff for the actual game vs any of those Galactic Gear segments. They sell tickets for a 1h30 powerpoint presentation on forum software.

staticneuron said:
And that is why prelaunch demos while nice are very hard to trust because final product ends up being different sometimes in minor ways, sometimes in major ways. But given how often CIG is attacked, for showing things, not showing things, leaked images, technical difficulties in a stream. It makes perfect sense for them to aim for finishing the product instead of producing a fixed vertical slice which would eat into resources and may simply only be used as a tool to attack CIG again if final product ends up changing.
Click to expand...

The bit you highlighted is hilarious because during Gamescom and Citicon they were emphasising endlessly that these weren't scripted demos, if they wanted to include something they were actually building out the mechanics for the Verse, this wasn't wasted development and now they turn around and say these demoes are wasted development that doesn't carry over to the full game and everyone immediately switches to "we've always been at war with Eastasia".
 
M

MasterOfPastures

Banned
By the dour mood in here, I assume the stream has been less than remarkable. Time for madness, anger and shitposting until the next event where they might show something.
I hope CIG enjoys the winter break, because they will be beaten like rented mules until something is released.
 
Outrun

Outrun

Member
MasterOfPastures said:
By the dour mood in here, I assume the stream has been less than remarkable. Time for madness, anger and shitposting until the next event where they might show something.
I hope CIG enjoys the winter break, because they will be beaten like rented mules until something is released.
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I think they can handle the anger, misplaced or not.

They should be concerned once that anger turns into indifference.
 
T

tuxfool

Banned
MasterOfPastures said:
By the dour mood in here, I assume the stream has been less than remarkable. Time for madness, anger and shitposting until the next event where they might show something.
I hope CIG enjoys the winter break, because they will be beaten like rented mules until something is released.
Click to expand...

I see that you have perfectly and concisely internalized the way the world works.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
staticneuron said:
They gave the explicit reason why. They stopped work on demo entirely to focus on other things. There is a reason demo's have died of in recent generations. And basically has been reported on and explained over and over. The point to pay attention to is


And that is why prelaunch demos while nice are very hard to trust because final product ends up being different sometimes in minor ways, sometimes in major ways. But given how often CIG is attacked, for showing things, not showing things, leaked images, technical difficulties in a stream. It makes perfect sense for them to aim for finishing the product instead of producing a fixed vertical slice which would eat into resources and may simply only be used as a tool to attack CIG again if final product ends up changing.
Click to expand...

I thought it wasn't a "demo" in the sense of a playable demo, it was a mission they were going to show us as they played through it. The lack of actual playable demos seems pretty irrelevant to a mission being shown.

As for their reason, yes, i saw that. It's the same reason they gave for not showing it at Citizencon, i defended it then but this time it seems worse in a way. My point was that the initial plan for what they were going to show at Citizencon was that it was something they didn't want to fake just to show us and would rather fix the problems with it for real. Back then they said they got very close to sorting that out in time for citizencon, which means all those systems they say are holding this back now must have been very close to being done as they weren't going to fake those. So it seems a few weeks before Citizencon they were very optimistic about getting those specific features ready in time, that obviously didn't happen, but another 2 months of work on them later they're still not done when they said they were very close to getting them done in time for citizencon. Have i got something wrong?

Basically what i'm saying is that the features holding it from being shown now seem to be the same as 2 months ago, yet back then they said they were close to getting them done in time for Citizencon; the "Item 2.0, Subsumption AI, Subsumption Mission System and asynchronous Object Container Streaming are all core systems that will power Squadron 42". Have i got something wrong?
 
R

RubberJohnny

Banned
TL;DR for anyone who missed it - stream quality was really bad, lots of segments had no audio, they kept cutting to the wrong thing and having to stall for time. Also there were lots of pre-recorded bits with cringey comedy attempts. No new info in the stream at all, everything is on the monthly report or store page or sent via a newsletter ten minutes before it started.

SQ42 seems really far aware, the Vanduul are still in the concept stage with them unable to show off a finished armoured model, and there's a laundry list of stuff still to do:

Item 2.0, Subsumption AI, Subsumption Mission System and asynchronous Object Container Streaming are all core systems that will power Squadron 42. In addition, there is some significant low level animation and lighting tech that we need to finish up to realize the goal of real time player interactions and conversations.
Click to expand...

They also only have one finished Vanduul capital ship, and seem to be redoing that whole fleet that was in the Lando Leak back in 2014, the ships that were outsourced to Streamline Studios.

3.0 got talked about only a little, but also seems rather far away, they mentioned the procedural planets was like the only finished bit, only just started working on atmospheric volumes, so nowhere on stuff like atmospheric flight model. Still stuff like netcode, AI, landing zones, cargo, etc to do or not started. They're also reducing the size of the landing zones to make them more feasible.
 
B

Burny

Member
RubberJohnny said:
The bit you highlighted is hilarious because during Gamescom and Citicon they were emphasising endlessly that these weren't scripted demos, if they wanted to include something they were actually building out the mechanics for the Verse, this wasn't wasted development and now they turn around and say these demoes are wasted development that doesn't carry over to the full game and everyone immediately switches to "we've always been at war with Eastasia".
Click to expand...

+1 for the reference. The doublethink is strong in this one.

TheVoidDragon said:
Basically what i'm saying is that the features holding it from being shown now seem to be the same as 2 months ago, yet back then they said they were close to getting them done in time for Citizencon; the "Item 2.0, Subsumption AI, Subsumption Mission System and asynchronous Object Container Streaming are all core systems that will power Squadron 42". Have i got something wrong?
Click to expand...
You're starting to sound like a polite version of myself. Happy you're starting to wake up.
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
TheVoidDragon said:
I thought it wasn't a "demo" in the sense of a playable demo, it was a mission they were going to show us as they played through it. The lack of actual playable demos seems pretty irrelevant to a mission being shown.

As for their reason, yes, i saw that. It's the same reason they gave for not showing it at Citizencon, i defended it then but this time it seems worse in a way. My point was that the initial plan for what they were going to show at Citizencon was that it was something they didn't want to fake just to show us and would rather fix the problems with it for real. Back then they said they got very close to sorting that out in time for citizencon, which means all those systems they say are holding this back now must have been very close to being done as they weren't going to fake those. So it seems a few weeks before Citizencon they were very optimistic about getting those specific features ready in time, that obviously didn't happen, but another 2 months of work on them later they're still not done when they said they were very close to getting them done in time for citizencon. Have i got something wrong?

Basically what i'm saying is that the features holding it from being shown now seem to be the same as 2 months ago, yet back then they said they were close to getting them done in time for Citizencon; the "Item 2.0, Subsumption AI, Subsumption Mission System and asynchronous Object Container Streaming are all core systems that will power Squadron 42". Have i got something wrong?
Click to expand...


Yes it would have been a demo since it would have to be a branch of the current build at that time. If they had everything complete for the entire game..... the entire game would be released already. Therefore it was a vertical slice and they even used that term. In the post I quoted

we didn’t want to spend additional developer time polishing intermediate solutions if it wasn’t going towards the final product
Click to expand...

Which means that despite showing finished chapter (possibly in terms of pacing, assets, and direction) it looks like some solutions were going to be intermediate (read: stopgap) instead of final.

That second link I posted has a wonderful section detailing the problem with something like that and perception on the audience you are trying to market product to. They would be better off pushing towards final because I imagine even "more" backers would be unhappy at work not only taking away from final release, but that work not being implemented in final product.

Josh Herman: "If something is in the game and it's working, does it work all the time? Is it only if you do it in certain way? Is it only being triggered in certain ways? That's very different from being in an isolated controlled test level where you know it's going to work every single time. Because then when you put into the game, you are expecting it to work and you know that it can work but that doesn't
Click to expand...

They most likely can continue on and do this just to get a vertical slice shown. But given the issue they had with illfonic and Star Marine, one would imagine they would not repeat that. There must be an acceptable limit in which you would be ok with resources being thrown towards this venture and some in which you would state, ok... this would be a waste of resources let us not pursue this.
 
E

elyetis

Member
Sadly it seems like I was right not to even try watching the stream. I guess they got better at handling expectation, because mine is at a new low.
 
V

viveks86

Member
I guess I'll wait till high end Volta before upgrading. Should be in time for SQ 42 (hopefully) in 2018.

I really don't mind the delays, but they never seem to give us a heads up that something won't show up until the very last minute. It's sort of disrespectful, especially when you talk to your backers every damn week. It's like you know that everyone is looking forward to, you know you won't be showing it to them, but you want to keep the hype going till you can distract us with something else.

If you decided not to spend any additional effort after Citizen Con, then why the hell does Chris give people hope that it may show up in an upcoming stream and not bother to correct himself till the last day? It's irresponsible and misleading. Whether it's intentional or not is not really relevant.

Whatever... Ugh!
 
E

elyetis

Member
Raticus79 said:
Not happening: http://us5.campaign-archive1.com/?u=32d8ef31243db6075c45571bd&id=47ffb69bce&e=056c875a6d
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Didn't see that.

I'll say that as usual, while it's good that we get an explanation. Why, just why do they always give them at the very last minute. It seems clear that SQ42 delay really isn't a last minute thing like it kind of was during CitizenCon, there is just no good reason to hear that delay only the day of the stream.

2.6 having a hard time being released in 2016 while it's actually the first priority over SQ42 and 3.0, is really frightening. I thought I was reasonable and almost pessimistic when I said 3 month ago that my expectation was March for 3.0, June for SQ42, compared to CR estimates; but it actually feel like it might still end up very optimistic compared to what we will get.
It feel like the game release is getting delayed by 6 month every 3 month, Star citizen will end up a 2020 release... or more, at that pace ( and SQ42 - Q4 2018 ? ).
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
viveks86 said:
I guess I'll wait till high end Volta before upgrading. Should be in time for SQ 42 (hopefully) in 2018.

I really don't mind the delays, but they never seem to give us a heads up that something won't show up until the very last minute. It's sort of disrespectful, especially when you talk to your backers every damn week. It's like you know that everyone is looking forward to, you know you won't be showing it to them, but you want to keep the hype going till you can distract us with something else.

If you decided not to spend any additional effort after Citizen Con, then why the hell does Chris give people hope that it may show up in an upcoming stream and not bother to correct himself till the last day? It's irresponsible and misleading. Whether it's intentional or not is not really relevant.

Whatever... Ugh!
Click to expand...

I know they spoke about 2.6 alot, can you link me to a video, 10FTC, blog post, tweet or anything of that nature in which Chris implied S42 was going to show up end of year? I try to keep on top of this, only noticed 2.6. Am I missing something?
 
M

mercenar1e

Member
r/starcitizen is shitting on the holiday stream

boy did CIG fuck it up lol

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5iqm0i/stop_lying_rant/?sort=top

As much as i love the concept of Star Citizen, the update that nothing of SQ42 will be shown this year makes me angry!
You upload the "Road to CitizenCon" video to show all Backers why you coudn't show SQ42 on CitizenCon, and now you tell us the same old shit?!
"we didn’t want to spend additional developer time polishing intermediate solutions if it wasn’t going towards the final product"
That's LITERALLY the same excuse you made for CitizenCon, and everyone knows now you lied in the entire video over how close you came to show us something. You where not even close.
The sad thing about it is, it would be okay, if you would be honest, but you aren't. You hold the hype up till the last second and then, instead of showing progress, you put up new fucking ships, and i swear i'm sick of it, so "we can enjoy them".
Stop making this meaningless battles in the livestreams, or do it, but don't make fucking trailers for this shit. That's waste of time and not finishing a demo!
I'm done for now, won't hear anything of 3.0 anyway, so what..
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.eJwNzMsNhCAQANBeKIDBEfDTDYsESYAhMMZsNtu7Xt_h_cTVs9jFydzGDnCk4akfcjB1F4OMRDEH19KQngo4ZufPEioPWBEnhXbWWs3KTosFNJtWC-Km1peMtQbKt6T6pp9Md5WtRvF_AL3QJRA.KxcriEyfL9xssXr6h4LLjikirWM
 
M

mercenar1e

Member
staticneuron said:
Your evidence of them giving a heads up "since" Citizencon is an interview from the same day as citizencon right after the presentation? October 09 2016.

You couldn't find anything after they went back and tried to work out logistics are you implying they should have known and informed us then?

If I were to state that would be unreasonable would you agree?
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well.. the last time CIG talked about the SQ 42 demo was at citizencon and he did say to look forward to the next 2 live streams. we didn't know it was totally scrapped until this morning.

Crusader is disabled in the 2.6 PTU? lmao oh god.
 
Outrun

Outrun

Member
It just seems that backers are subsidizing CIG's education on technical development and project management.

I wish that I could get someone to pay for my education.
 
V

viveks86

Member
staticneuron said:
Your evidence of them giving a heads up "since" Citizencon is an interview from the same day as citizencon right after the presentation? October 09 2016.

You couldn't find anything after they went back and tried to work out logistics are you implying they should have known and informed us then?

If I were to state that would be unreasonable would you agree?
Click to expand...

Let me make this simple

SQ42 demo was scheduled for CitizenCon

Chris cancels demo and asks us to "look forward to upcoming streams"

I look forward to upcoming streams, because I'm excited for Sq42 and believe in the vision.

CIG decides that it makes no sense to continue working on the demo (for valid reasons). They had 2 months to inform us but they sit on it and talk about everything else. Ok may be they decided somewhere down the line. 1 month ago? 2 weeks ago? 1 week ago?

But Chris sends a note literally on the day of the stream

Is it unreasonable to expect them to let us know whenever they decided to pull the plug on the demo? Because if they did, I wouldn't have bothered spending any time looking forward to it, following this thread for updates or watching the last two streams. As an otherwise optimistic and enthusiastic backer, why should I not demand better communication and transparency where it matters?

You seem to be more inclined to call me unreasonable than calling them unreasonable for wasting my time (and others who feel mislead about the demo). As i said before, I don't mind delays and I certainly don't think this is a scam like many naysayers do. But I hate it when I'm not informed in advance and am strung along for a ride.

When something stinks, it deserves to be called out.
 
C

Chumley

Banned
Oh lord the Reddit page is not happy.

This game is turning out pretty much exactly how everyone who doubted it from the beginning was expecting.
 
M

mercenar1e

Member
viveks86 said:
You seem to be more inclined to call me unreasonable than calling them unreasonable for wasting my time (and others who feel mislead about the demo). As i said before, I don't mind delays and I certainly don't think this is a scam like many naysayers do. But I hate it when I'm not informed in advance and am strung along for a ride.

When something stinks, it deserves to be called out.
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nah the naysayers aren't calling it a scam. its clearly grossly mismanaged.

Raticus79 said:
Woohoo! Hopefully I can work my way into wave 1 one of these days.
Click to expand...

you want wave 1 access right now?? PAY UP $10 subscriber access. im not even joking.
 
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