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Crackdown 3 (XB/PC, Sumo Digital) E3 Trailer out Nov 7th

S

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
There's a decent amount of games that have separate SP and MP draws. While I'd rather the 2 modes not be so incredibly divorced looking in terms of destruction, I wouldn't let a single trailer turn me off from the game, or completely disappoint me.

Last year, the Xbox Daily and stage shows between people like Gamespot and IGN really helped showcase the strengths of the gameplay (not just for Microsoft, but for Nintendo and Sony too), while the stage presentations at the conferences were basically just "look, we're here at E3!" notices.

I remember how big Crackdown 1 felt in the idea that your character grew from a grunt with a gun, to a guy who was super-punching the ground, causing cracks, and jumping building gaps. If C3 is the same; where your lvl 1 agent is a scrawny, basic third person shooter character, and the endgame has me take out an enemy HQ by placing explosives on an adjacent building, and crushing the whole thing on top of it, I'll be happy with such a progression.

IT JUST BETTER BE THERE. By the time I finish the SP campaign, the MP feeling like a playground of letting me take the game to 11111ExPLoSIONZ1!1, would actually rock.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
SAB CA said:
There's a decent amount of games that have separate SP and MP draws. While I'd rather the 2 modes not be so incredibly divorced looking in terms of destruction, I wouldn't let a single trailer turn me off from the game, or completely disappoint me.

Last year, the Xbox Daily and stage shows between people like Gamespot and IGN really helped showcase the strengths of the gameplay (not just for Microsoft, but for Nintendo and Sony too), while the stage presentations at the conferences were basically just "look, we're here at E3!" notices.

I remember how big Crackdown 1 felt in the idea that your character grew from a grunt with a gun, to a guy who was super-punching the ground, causing cracks, and jumping building gaps. If C3 is the same; where your lvl 1 agent is a scrawny, basic third person shooter character, and the endgame has me take out an enemy HQ by placing explosives on an adjacent building, and crushing the whole thing on top of it, I'll be happy with such a progression.

IT JUST BETTER BE THERE. By the time I finish the SP campaign, the MP feeling like a playground of letting me take the game to 11111ExPLoSIONZ1!1, would actually rock.
Click to expand...

There's no guarantee the campaign environment will be available in multiplayer.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Far too high an expectation was placed on this. I know some people really expected it to be a showcase.
 
Z

zeexlash

Member
Stumpokapow said:
Given the switch of developer, and presumably all the creative staff, my assumption would be that the original vision for the game simply did not work at scale.
Click to expand...
And most likely they've been told it needs to be out for the Xbox One X launch.. that's a bad combination..
 
S

SAB CA

Sketchbook Picasso
Miles Quaritch said:
There's no guarantee the campaign environment will be available in multiplayer.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know. That's why I very specifically stated something that could be handled as a set piece. I can see them not wanting to go full on destruction crazy for the SP, but that doesn't mean we can't be teased with ever-increasing destruction as the game goes on.

Imagine the final 2 story missions taking place in a fully destructible island or something of the sort? Or just charging up an unusually frail single building, floor by floor?
 
J

Jeff Freecss

Member
ViciousDS said:
I smell this game launching with the Xbox one X with single player only with multiplayer to launch later
Click to expand...

I believe the multiplayer is finished before the single player. Because the multiplayer as looking better than this. I remember they said they redo the single player in one of the dev videos.
 
B

Black Mantis

Member
Drey1082 said:
Also, I love Terry Crews, but it felt like they trotted him out as a hype man because they got scared that they needed to show this game, but knew it wouldn't show well... Need playable demos.
Click to expand...

Watch the dev interview with Geoff Keighley, Crews himself approached the devs apparently to appear in the game.
 
P

p2535748

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
Later date or very soon. I don't know who to believe.
Click to expand...

It's the same guy both times, and those comments aren't mutually exclusive. He says "later date" first, then later says "very soon." Don't know why you'd have to choose which one to believe.

Stumpokapow said:
Given the switch of developer, and presumably all the creative staff, my assumption would be that the original vision for the game simply did not work at scale.
Click to expand...

It's weird, they say Sumo is "working on the campaign experience", which implies someone else is doing the multiplayer. I suppose it could still be cloudgine.
 
B

blakep267

Member
p2535748 said:
It's the same guy both times, and those comments aren't mutually exclusive. He says "later date" first, then later says "very soon." Don't know why you'd have to choose which one to believe.



It's weird, they say Sumo is "working on the campaign experience", which implies someone else is doing the multiplayer. I suppose it could still be cloudgine.
Click to expand...
Ruffian is doing the MP. From what I understood, reagent is doing the design and planning, something like comcept did with Recore. Cloudgine was doing the cloud technology. Sumo was building the SP and Ruffian the MP
 
S

SPDIF

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
Let's reminds ourselves of what they were promising with regard to destruction back in 2015...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWANLy9TjRc
Click to expand...

eMEVCgc.jpg


This is from three months ago. It seems to me like they're still promising to have the same scale. Hopefully we won't have long to find out.
 
Dee Dah Dave

Dee Dah Dave

Member
If a super cool cloud destruction mode still exists, it's unforgivable they didn't show it at E3. Nevermind this wait for Gamescom bullshit or whatever.
 
A

Agnostic Priest

Member
I really expected this to have a huge presence at the conference. With SoT and SoD being pushed to 2018 (which I agree with so they don't get slaughtered by the holiday games), they should have really pushed CD3.

I'll try and remain optimistic until I hear impressions from the demos, but I feel increasingly concerned.
 
S

S0L

SUMO DIGITAL
Just going to clear up some questions, though again understand there are many, many things I can't talk about as unless it's out there in public, I will get a pretty severe telling off :)

All of the above are elements that have been confirmed though, it's worth watching Clint's interview here if you haven't seen it already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJvD7YawwI

Is there is a full day night/cycle - Yes, the game is not set in perpetual darkness! What you saw in the E3 Stage Presentation was footage captured from the E3 show floor demo. This starts at sunset, but at it's a time limited demo of ten minutes with accelerated levelling (much like the original Crackdown demo) most of the footage got captured as it transitions to night time and you don't quite get to sunrise in 10 minutes!

Multiplayer/Destruction - Campaign was designed to be played offline in single player, but can also be played online in 4 player Co-Op. Both don't feature the large scale world destruction as we wanted to make it accessible to as many people as possible. The competitive multiplayer will feature large scale destruction, MS will show it I'm sure when they're ready, but E3 is all about the Campaign side of the game. It is also a conscious gameplay choice for Campaign, razing the city to the ground doesn't feel like the kind of thing the good guys should do.

Who is working on the game - We (Sumo) have been involved with the game from the start and we're principally handling the Campaign side of the game. It's a group effort though with Reagent and Cloudgine who are principally handling the competitive multiplayer. Some elements are shared, some are unique based on the gameplay needs.

Why didn't you show more in the E3 Presentation - We were one of the 52 games on show, plus we're on the show-floor and we've got many press presentations booked over E3. I suspect they felt we could let the game talk more by itself! Plus don't forget that Crackdown is a very freeform game, it's hard to get that across as we're very definitely trying to avoid it being a scripted experience. Any given situation can be approached in a number of ways depending on the skills you've chosen to focus on.

Does the announcer (Voice of the Agency) return - Absolutely. Some things are Crackdown DNA, this is one of then.

Length of game/number of maps - This one I have to leave out specifics till MS talk more about the game, but we're expecting it to be comparable to previous Crackdown games.

Like I say, I know there are multiple interviews happening so more should be revealed over the next few days and I'll be surprised if there isn't any show floor footage as folks get into the booth.

I also appreciate folks remembering All-Stars Transformed which was my previous major gig before this one :)
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
xAngelicNinjax said:
e2aca9d4f8f86d42dbfa9d020b9cd32a.jpg


Even the teaser during the Xbox One X 4k trailer looked better than the gameplay they showed? What the hell happened Microsoft
Click to expand...

Still just looks like smoke effects and not destruction. At last not like they showed in past years.

S0L said:
Just going to clear up some questions...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info! I hope the server-based destruction in multiplayer sessions works out well. Even a game with simple physics like Little Big Planet really suffered in 4player online sessions... the net-code in work here must be very impressive.
 
I

iMax

Member
Agent_Carnage said:
I think what would calm the nerves is confirming the city wide destruction is still there for MP.

If you can few friends and just mess around dropping buildings on each other that be great.

Im willing to drop a full pre order if the full city wide destruction is till intact.
Click to expand...

It is, we know that already.
 
I

iMax

Member
Miles Quaritch said:
Let's reminds ourselves of what they were promising with regard to destruction back in 2015...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWANLy9TjRc
Click to expand...

Dave Jones says at that start of that video that the footage there is the "multiplayer version of Crackdown 3". We haven't seen that since 2015. What we saw yesterday was the debut of the campaign only.

There's no reason to believe this has changed from a technical perspective, although I am curious to know the size and scope of the map.
 
I

iMax

Member
Stumpokapow said:
Given the switch of developer, and presumably all the creative staff, my assumption would be that the original vision for the game simply did not work at scale.
Click to expand...

blakep267 said:
Ruffian is doing the MP. From what I understood, reagent is doing the design and planning, something like comcept did with Recore. Cloudgine was doing the cloud technology. Sumo was building the SP and Ruffian the MP
Click to expand...

The developer has not been switched. It's always been Sumo, ReAgent, and Cloudgine. Ruffian is not involved in any way. edit: Seems Ruffian is indeed working on the multiplayer.

Having said that, I do wonder if Sumo's role on the project was expanded to mitigate the prevalence of the "always-online" component on the game, with the addition of an offline single player mode to complement the core destructive multiplayer experience that was originally announced.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Stumpokapow said:
Given the switch of developer, and presumably all the creative staff, my assumption would be that the original vision for the game simply did not work at scale.
Click to expand...

I really wish people would stop saying this.

There was no developer switch. Sumo has always been on campaign.

Reagent and Cloudgine have always been on MP.
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
SPDIF said:
eMEVCgc.jpg


This is from three months ago. It seems to me like they're still promising to have the same scale. Hopefully we won't have long to find out.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I remember the thread that was posted here about that. I'm still hopeful, but there's only so much you can talk about something until people start to doubt it exists. They've had two years, this was the time to unveil both the single and multiplayer.

It's such a cop-out argument that they wanted to focus on just the campaign for E3 and even then they debut it with such a mediocre trailer and then have to do damage control that the floor demo will showcase the game in a better light. A show floor demo that's a skills for kills demo that is just about causing mayhem according to the video interview. Doesn't exactly relieve any concerns about how the campaign plays or how missions can be tackled.

LukasTaves said:
3 months? I remember seeing that image a few years ago... Unless they reiterated it recently?
Click to expand...

giancarlo123x said:
I feel the same way, I swear I saw this long ago.
Click to expand...

It's from GDC earlier this year.

http://cogconnected.com/2017/03/crackdown-3-truly-massive-destructible-world/
 
Dee Dah Dave

Dee Dah Dave

Member
Thanks Mr Sumo guy!

Question - Is the MP anywhere close to as epic as the 2015 Gamescom demo, or have things been 'scaled back'? >_<
 
M

Miles Quaritch

Member
iMax said:
Dave Jones says at that start of that video that the footage there is the "multiplayer version of Crackdown 3". We haven't seen that since 2015. What we saw yesterday was the debut of the campaign only.

There's no reason to believe this has changed from a technical perspective, although I am curious to know the size and scope of the map.
Click to expand...

I didn't post it to try and confuse people, I posted it as a reminder of what was being touted as multiplayer at the time in light of the Wrecking Zone that came from Amazon.
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
Theorry said:
My 2 cents on the "reveal"
The idea is fine to focus on the SP. As that wasnt really shown yet. But we didnt see anything really. It was just alot of shooting in a trailer. I mean we didnt get anything new about the SP. The should have gone with this vid like they did in 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_nZ1xYyj6A

Talk about the game while showing footage of the game. Showing SP and MP
Click to expand...

Yah... I watch that video... and while a "Cloud" PC might have the necessary power to process that destruction, to me the bottleneck is the net-code to communicate that destruction to all game clients in the session. How the actual fuck will that work out...
 
I

iMax

Member
Just rewatched the announcement at E3 2014 and it seems the separation was clear from the get go—I never picked up on it at the time.

In addition to a whole new campaign, fully playable in co-op, it's also coming back in a revolutionary new multiplayer experience; one powered by an army of dedicated servers on Xbox Live.
Click to expand...
 
Agent_Carnage

Agent_Carnage

Member
iMax said:
It is, we know that already.
Click to expand...

But on what level of detail? Is it almost the same as when they first showed it off 2 years ago? Or was that vision not possible and they had to scale it down? As the wording from Amazon implies small areas.

This is why they needed to show something of that. The major selling point of Red Faction Guerrilla was the destruction tech of the game. I would think having a cool piece of tech for Multiplayer would be worthy of showing off this close to release no?
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
S0L said:
Just going to clear up some questions, though again understand there are many, many things I can't talk about as unless it's out there in public, I will get a pretty severe telling off :)

All of the above are elements that have been confirmed though, it's worth watching Clint's interview here if you haven't seen it already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJvD7YawwI

Is there is a full day night/cycle - Yes, the game is not set in perpetual darkness! What you saw in the E3 Stage Presentation was footage captured from the E3 show floor demo. This starts at sunset, but at it's a time limited demo of ten minutes with accelerated levelling (much like the original Crackdown demo) most of the footage got captured as it transitions to night time and you don't quite get to sunrise in 10 minutes!

Multiplayer/Destruction - Campaign was designed to be played offline in single player, but can also be played online in 4 player Co-Op. Both don't feature the large scale world destruction as we wanted to make it accessible to as many people as possible. The competitive multiplayer will feature large scale destruction, MS will show it I'm sure when they're ready, but E3 is all about the Campaign side of the game. It is also a conscious gameplay choice for Campaign, razing the city to the ground doesn't feel like the kind of thing the good guys should do.

Who is working on the game - We (Sumo) have been involved with the game from the start and we're principally handling the Campaign side of the game. It's a group effort though with Reagent and Cloudgine who are principally handling the competitive multiplayer. Some elements are shared, some are unique based on the gameplay needs.

Why didn't you show more in the E3 Presentation - We were one of the 52 games on show, plus we're on the show-floor and we've got many press presentations booked over E3. I suspect they felt we could let the game talk more by itself! Plus don't forget that Crackdown is a very freeform game, it's hard to get that across as we're very definitely trying to avoid it being a scripted experience. Any given situation can be approached in a number of ways depending on the skills you've chosen to focus on.

Does the announcer (Voice of the Agency) return - Absolutely. Some things are Crackdown DNA, this is one of then.

Length of game/number of maps - This one I have to leave out specifics till MS talk more about the game, but we're expecting it to be comparable to previous Crackdown games.

Like I say, I know there are multiple interviews happening so more should be revealed over the next few days and I'll be surprised if there isn't any show floor footage as folks get into the booth.

I also appreciate folks remembering All-Stars Transformed which was my previous major gig before this one :)
Click to expand...

I feel bad that you have to keep jumping into threads to clear things up, but the way this game has been marketed has been utterly confusing, and really muddied the waters with respects to what this game is and isn't.

The poor communication is sucking out excitement like a vacuum. And your post will likely get lost in a see of "concern", concern, and confusion.

The e3 stage show should have been the chance to clear the air once and for all. A picture (in this case a video) is worth a thousand words.
 
P

Poodlestrike

Banned
Z3M0G said:
Yah... I watch that video... and while a "Cloud" PC might have the necessary power to process that destruction, to me the bottleneck is the net-code to communicate that destruction to all game clients in the session. How the actual fuck will that work out...
Click to expand...
It's not actually all that data intensive, from my understanding. Your rig will still be doing the rendering, so all that really needa to be sent back and forth is the position, velocity, etc. data.
 
Y

Yearsoflurking

Member
Agent_Carnage said:
But on what level of detail? Is it almost the same as when they first showed it off 2 years ago? Or was that vision not possible and they had to scale it down? As the wording from Amazon implies small areas.

This is why they needed to show something of that. The major selling point of Red Faction Guerrilla was the destruction tech of the game. I would think having a cool piece of tech for Multiplayer would be worthy of showing off this close to release no?
Click to expand...
the wording from Amazon implies the game has different modes
 
Agent_Carnage

Agent_Carnage

Member
S0L said:
Just going to clear up some questions, though again understand there are many, many things I can't talk about as unless it's out there in public, I will get a pretty severe telling off :)

All of the above are elements that have been confirmed though, it's worth watching Clint's interview here if you haven't seen it already:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pJvD7YawwI

Is there is a full day night/cycle - Yes, the game is not set in perpetual darkness! What you saw in the E3 Stage Presentation was footage captured from the E3 show floor demo. This starts at sunset, but at it's a time limited demo of ten minutes with accelerated levelling (much like the original Crackdown demo) most of the footage got captured as it transitions to night time and you don't quite get to sunrise in 10 minutes!

Multiplayer/Destruction - Campaign was designed to be played offline in single player, but can also be played online in 4 player Co-Op. Both don't feature the large scale world destruction as we wanted to make it accessible to as many people as possible. The competitive multiplayer will feature large scale destruction, MS will show it I'm sure when they're ready, but E3 is all about the Campaign side of the game. It is also a conscious gameplay choice for Campaign, razing the city to the ground doesn't feel like the kind of thing the good guys should do.

Who is working on the game - We (Sumo) have been involved with the game from the start and we're principally handling the Campaign side of the game. It's a group effort though with Reagent and Cloudgine who are principally handling the competitive multiplayer. Some elements are shared, some are unique based on the gameplay needs.

Why didn't you show more in the E3 Presentation - We were one of the 52 games on show, plus we're on the show-floor and we've got many press presentations booked over E3. I suspect they felt we could let the game talk more by itself! Plus don't forget that Crackdown is a very freeform game, it's hard to get that across as we're very definitely trying to avoid it being a scripted experience. Any given situation can be approached in a number of ways depending on the skills you've chosen to focus on.

Does the announcer (Voice of the Agency) return - Absolutely. Some things are Crackdown DNA, this is one of then.

Length of game/number of maps - This one I have to leave out specifics till MS talk more about the game, but we're expecting it to be comparable to previous Crackdown games.

Like I say, I know there are multiple interviews happening so more should be revealed over the next few days and I'll be surprised if there isn't any show floor footage as folks get into the booth.

I also appreciate folks remembering All-Stars Transformed which was my previous major gig before this one :)
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. It would of really calmed the masses if you showed something related to the MP destruction.

I dont know if you will reply to this but is the City Wide Destruction only PvP or can me and few friends mess around with than in a free form environment? Kinda like the lobbies of GTA V? Where you spawn in a free roam with people but have options to queue up for PvP stuff.
 
Z

Z3M0G

Member
Poodlestrike said:
It's not actually all that data intensive, from my understanding. Your rig will still be doing the rendering, so all that really needa to be sent back and forth is the position, velocity, etc. data.
Click to expand...

Obviously... but even that is going to be very messy. Especially when a player is standing in or on a building that crumbles... or a building lands on top of you... any latency will break that fairly heavily.

Little Big Planet with just 4 players and very few physics based things happening in your small screen area was quite a nightmare of lag and stuttering while trying to play multiplayer.
 
T

Trup1aya

Member
Z3M0G said:
Yah... I watch that video... and while a "Cloud" PC might have the necessary power to process that destruction, to me the bottleneck is the net-code to communicate that destruction to all game clients in the session. How the actual fuck will that work out...
Click to expand...

It's just sending the result of the physics calculation back to the clients.

Plenty of games do their physics calculations via the server. With Crackdown, there are more calculations to perform so they allow access to multiple servers. the result is larger data packets than a typical game. But there won't neccisarily be a need for more packets than your typical game.

IMO the harder part to figure it would be the handshaking between Servers as players and Debri cross the thresholds between them.
 
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