Support NeoGAF

whatsinaname · Jul 23, 2017

A New Yorker article about a "new type of job" in China.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/06/26/chinas-mistress-dispellers

Yu, a gentle-looking man in his early forties, with the placid demeanor of a yoga instructor, works as a mistress dispeller, a job that barely existed a decade ago but is becoming common in major Chinese cities. His clients are women who hope to preserve their marriages by fending off what is known in Chinese as a xiao san, or Little Thirda term that encompasses everything from a partner in a casual affair to a long-term kept woman.

Yu is one of about three hundred employees of Weiqing Group, which bills itself as Chinas first professional transnational love hospital. Weiqingthe name translates as preserve feelingwas founded sixteen years ago and provides an array of services, designed to save a marriage at all costs.

In divorces, women suffer disproportionately. Yus view of a womans poor chance at remarriage is widely shared, but there are more concrete issues, arising from economic disparity within marriages. Mistress dispellers are only one part of a broader industry that has sprung up to help wives rescue their unions, but their work has aroused particular fascination, as has the figure of the mistress herself, often portrayed in films and TV dramas as a predatory but irresistible homewrecker.

I've only quoted a few bits from the beginning of the article. The whole article is a fascinating read.

ZiZ · Jul 23, 2017

How do they save marriages? Are they like P.I.s? Do they go around seducing would be mistresses?

Assanova · Jul 23, 2017

This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

Chaos2Frozen · Jul 23, 2017

Assanova said:
This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

Being a divorcee or single mother has a stigma to it.

Violet_0 · Jul 23, 2017

For a woman, divorce was rarely a sensible choice. ”In today's world, a secondhand woman is like a secondhand car," he said. ”Once it's been driven, it's not worth a fraction of its original selling price." A secondhand man, on the other hand, Yu explained, is like renovated property in China's real-estate market: ”The value only appreciates."

hm

Assanova said:
This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

isn't it the other way around?

SolicitorPirate · Jul 23, 2017

Assanova said:
This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

It's the other way round. Men outnumber women because boys are seen as more 'valuable'

whatsinaname · Jul 23, 2017

ZiZ said:
How do they save marriages? Are they like P.I.s? Do they go around seducing would be mistresses?

That's what the article is about...

Though maybe not as much as just that but how marriage is often viewed in China and the disparity in power between the partners in the marriage or divorce.

Assanova · Jul 23, 2017

SolicitorPirate said:
It's the other way round. Men outnumber women because boys are seen as more 'valuable'

Violet_0 said:
hm

isn't it the other way around?

Yeah, the other way around. I just caught that.

Neverforget · Jul 23, 2017

This is strangely fascinating, I would have never imagined a job like this.

Kthulhu · Jul 23, 2017

Sounds to me like China needs to fix its marriage laws.

SolidusDave · Jul 23, 2017

What I find disgusting is the way the mistresses are treated over there. With the help of agencies the wife gets to go ham on the mistress in public. There's videos of beatings, pulling down their pants and shaming them etc.

They are not even the ones who are cheating, it's the husbands.
Makes me think this is less about romantic feelings and broken trust but more about defending their source of income.

Grimsen · Jul 23, 2017

Sounds like Fernando's New Beginnings.

Mistake · Jul 23, 2017

SolidusDave said:
Makes me think this is less about romantic feelings and broken trust but more about defending their source of income.

Hate to break it to you, but that's why a lot of them marry in the first place. So it's little surprise this kind of service exists

darkhunger · Jul 23, 2017

Assanova said:
This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

Like you said, it's the other way around, so tons of poor or less educated men go unmarried in China because of the ratio issue and the fact that more well off men have two women.

hydrophilic attack · Jul 23, 2017

SolidusDave said:
What I find disgusting is the way the mistresses are treated over there. With the help of agencies the wife gets to go ham on the mistress in public. There's videos of beatings, pulling down their pants and shaming them etc.

They are not even the ones who are cheating, it's the husbands.
Makes me think this is less about romantic feelings and broken trust but more about defending their source of income.

The article goes into it. Seems that after a divorce, a former wife is left with next to nothing. Even if she's deeply unhappy in her relationship, these women feel like they need to do anything to defend their marriage

dreamcastmaster · Jul 23, 2017

Kreios said:
Hate to break it to you, but that's why a lot of them marry in the first place. So it's little surprise this kind of service exists

I'd have probably phrased this a little more diplomatically, though. Generally what happens is that young adults are pressured into marrying young and that pressure is ramped up the closer you get to 30. A lot of rural families see marriage to a working man as an income for retirement.
You'll pick up on a lot of insecurity from both sides, men thinking they need money to get a wife and woman thinking men will loose interest if they get too old. Wind the clock forward, the man gets older and has a successful business and now can get that woman he wanted due to having money. A lot of young women look for a guy that is already successful and an older guy as well to bypass that period in her life in her early 20's where a guy her own age would be at an entry level job. That older wife insecurity is still there, this service is exploiting that I'm sure rather than being some women's justice and protection agency.

Mistake · Jul 23, 2017

dreamcastmaster said:
.

oh believe me, I've gone through it myself. It's much easier for women to see what's up front than what could be. Which is one reason dating here is such a problem. I have met couples with not much an age difference and a successful marriage here in China, but it's pretty rare for sure. For a developing country it's not much of a surprise, so don't get me wrong, I don't blame them for thinking that way

StayDead · Jul 23, 2017

SolidusDave said:
What I find disgusting is the way the mistresses are treated over there. With the help of agencies the wife gets to go ham on the mistress in public. There's videos of beatings, pulling down their pants and shaming them etc.

They are not even the ones who are cheating, it's the husbands.
Makes me think this is less about romantic feelings and broken trust but more about defending their source of income.

While the responses to them are far beyond ok, they're awful in fact. It does however take two people to cheat.

SolidusDave · Jul 23, 2017

StayDead said:
While the responses to them are far beyond ok, they're awful in fact. It does however take two people to cheat.

It's a moral question sure, especially if you make active advances on married people.
But the main aspect about cheating is the broken trust and that can only be done by the cheater themselves. The person they are cheating with might not even be aware that they are in a non-open relationship, so how could they be at fault?

Different story when the person is a friend/family member of the one who was cheated on, of course.

j_k_redtail · Jul 23, 2017

This is a fascinating article; thank you for sharing it.

dreamcastmaster · Jul 23, 2017

SolidusDave said:
The person they are cheating with might not even be aware that they are in a non-open relationship, so how could they be at fault?

The topic is about Chinese xiao Sans, you can't transplant your own cultures morals directly onto it. Xiao sans spcifically look for married men with the long term goal of replacing the current wife. This depends on the age of the woman, younger girls are happy for a bit of cash and some entertainment, older women see they are getting out of date and need to settle.

erragal · Jul 23, 2017

Even though there are more men than women, culturally many of the men still retain some anachronistic or less toxic traditional ideas towards partner selection that narrows their pool. Can't marry someone smarter/more successful than you, or in their 30s at all, or previously married, some still care about virginity, etc. As well many of the women in larger cities have some high expectations of resource providing. This isn't even touching the enormous influence family can have in who you are allowed to marry.

What was fascinating for me to find is that the actual stealing of a boyfriend or husband seems to have virtually zero social repercussions for anyone involved. That's how you end up with services like this. Girls stealing boyfriends is just something to be accepted rather than an inherently immoral act in it's own right.

Chaos2Frozen · Jul 23, 2017

erragal said:
What was fascinating for me to find is that the actual stealing of a boyfriend or husband seems to have virtually zero social repercussions for anyone involved. That's how you end up with services like this.

Are you sure? It wouldn't surprise me if people had literally lost their lives over this.

And I'm not just talking about the drama series.

China women are scary, I wouldn't want to mess with them.

Kuroi Gogeta · Jul 23, 2017

I mean this just sounds like marriage counselling. It's interesting to me though that women still feel like they need to worry about marriage in a country where they are literally outnumbered by men. You'd think that men would be more careful to preserve their marriages

erragal · Jul 23, 2017

Chaos2Frozen said:
Are you sure? It wouldn't surprise me if people had literally lost their lives over this.

And I'm not just talking about the drama series.

China women are scary, I wouldn't want to mess with them.

That's individual retribution for being wronged which is different than mass social repercussions.

The woman stealing a husband isn't likely to lose her friends or be shamed by family for her behavior. The article touches on why this might be when it goes into how the first example client was never taught to express emotions publicly. Even if many women disapprove they're probably unlikely to make a public display against the mistress girl.

dramatis · Jul 23, 2017

erragal said:
Even though there are more men than women, culturally many of the men still retain some anachronistic or less toxic traditional ideas towards partner selection that narrows their pool. Can't marry someone smarter/more successful than you, or in their 30s at all, or previously married, some still care about virginity, etc. As well many of the women in larger cities have some high expectations of resource providing. This isn't even touching the enormous influence family can have in who you are allowed to marry.

What was fascinating for me to find is that the actual stealing of a boyfriend or husband seems to have virtually zero social repercussions for anyone involved. That's how you end up with services like this.

It's because the emphasis on how people see relationships seems to be more on the financial relationship rather than the emotional relationship. Everyone from the outside can't determine or empathize with the 'love', so they evaluate all of it on the basis of money.

Moreover the idea of pure monogamy for men is still relatively 'recent' in Chinese society. I think even in the 50s-60s (maybe even 70s-80s) in Hong Kong, where Western ideas had been stewing for decades, men were still in the habit of having Ah Yi (a second) or Ah Sam (a third).

erragal said:
That's individual retribution for being wronged which is different than mass social repercussions.

The woman stealing a husband isn't likely to lose her friends or be shamed by family for her behavior. The article touches on why this might be when it goes into how the first example client was never taught to express emotions publicly. Even if many women disapprove they're probably unlikely to make a public display against the mistress girl.

I think this is also because of the concept of "family business", what the west would call a "personal matter". People feel like they shouldn't be intruding on the issues of other families, and that's ingrained in Chinese culture.

Aureon · Jul 23, 2017

Assanova said:
This is interesting, considering women drastically outnumber men in China due to the one child policy. Never thought that any woman would ever have trouble re-marrying in China.

They definitely don't

(I mean, the conclusion is correct, but the premise is flipped around)

dreamcastmaster · Jul 23, 2017

erragal said:
Girls stealing boyfriends is just something to be accepted rather than an inherently immoral act in it's own right.

Bit sexist to put the blame on the women as "stealing" no?

Chairmanchuck · Jul 23, 2017

dramatis said:
Moreover the idea of pure monogamy for men is still relatively 'recent' in Chinese society. I think even in the 50s-60s (maybe even 70s-80s) in Hong Kong, where Western ideas had been stewing for decades, men were still in the habit of having Ah Yi (a second) or Ah Sam (a third).

Even nowadays cheating seems "normal" especially on business trips.
When I went to a KTV during a business trip the two married colleagues got some prostitute after I was gone and the one who choose the hotels always choosed the ones which also has a brothel on one floor.

I found it so sad to see one colleague always showing pics of his daughter, then cheating on his wife during those business trips.

erragal · Jul 23, 2017

dramatis said:
It's because the emphasis on how people see relationships seems to be more on the financial relationship rather than the emotional relationship. Everyone from the outside can't determine or empathize with the 'love', so they evaluate all of it on the basis of money.

Moreover the idea of pure monogamy for men is still relatively 'recent' in Chinese society. I think even in the 50s-60s (maybe even 70s-80s) in Hong Kong, where Western ideas had been stewing for decades, men were still in the habit of having Ah Yi (a second) or Ah Sam (a third).

Yeah your second part is definitely on point. I'd say via my wife though younger women want monogamy many of them still don't completely expect it. She definitely has friends who operate in life as if men will always cheat and your job is to minimize how often it happens. And this is in a highly educated social group of self sufficient advanced degree holding women who can throw out the financial necessities of marriage.

Aquavelvaman · Jul 23, 2017

"Mistress Dispeller" was my nickname in uni

erragal · Jul 23, 2017

dreamcastmaster said:
Bit sexist to put the blame on the women as "stealing" no?

I'm just reporting it from a different perspective. This isn't my personal opinion on the situation. However, you are correct, these are sexist ideas remaining in their society. Not sure anyone here is disputing that, just observing the realities surrounding dating/marriage culture in China.

AuthenticM · Jul 23, 2017

In divorces, women suffer disproportionately. Yu's view of a woman's poor chance at remarriage is widely shared, but there are more concrete issues, arising from economic disparity within marriages.

How is China's asset sharing that results from divorce? Is it fair?

whatsinaname · Jul 23, 2017

AuthenticM said:
How is China's asset sharing that results from divorce? Is it fair?

The article goes into that a little bit. It looks like there are many legal ways for the man to essentially keep everything. Doesn't seem like alimony/spousal support is a thing either?

Lucumo · Jul 23, 2017

Chairmanchuck said:
Even nowadays cheating seems "normal" especially on business trips.

Well, you can always put it in another way:

Even nowadays "cheating" seems normal especially on business trips.

Zaraki_Kenpachi · Jul 23, 2017

StayDead said:
While the responses to them are far beyond ok, they're awful in fact. It does however take two people to cheat.

Yes... But the point is the other person doesn't have to necessarily know that you're married or whatever else. Also, it's pretty telling when people would rather go after the woman than the person who actually pledged honesty and trust to them when they got married... Stop trying to hand wave away the hatred towards women almost exclusively in these scenarios as "it takes two to cheat!".

dreamcastmaster · Jul 23, 2017

Chairmanchuck said:
Even nowadays cheating seems "normal" especially on business trips.
When I went to a KTV during a business trip the two married colleagues got some prostitute after I was gone and the one who choose the hotels always choosed the ones which also has a brothel on one floor.

I found it so sad to see one colleague always showing pics of his daughter, then cheating on his wife during those business trips.

That's not so extreme at all. I've been out with a group of male friends on the weekend each of them with thier Xiao Sans and all the xiao Sans knew each other and were friends because they had hung out so much with these men. It was a parallel life, both married and dating.

Mistake · Jul 23, 2017

Yeah, that was probably one of the biggest culture shocks I had here. I was talking with a girl that told me "it's ok if my future husband cheats, as long as I don't know about it." House stability comes first, love be damned

dreamcastmaster · Jul 23, 2017

Kreios said:
Yeah, that was probably one of the biggest culture shocks I had here. I was talking with a girl that told me "it's ok if my future husband cheats, as long as I don't know about it." House stability comes first, love be damned

I've heard the exact phrase before too. Followed by the wife doing everything to check up on her husband.

Keri · Jul 23, 2017

AuthenticM said:
How is China's asset sharing that results from divorce? Is it fair?

Women usually fair worse after divorce in the U.S. too. So, even if China had asset sharing laws similar to here, it probably wouldn't fix the disparity.

Kthulhu · Jul 23, 2017

Kreios said:
Yeah, that was probably one of the biggest culture shocks I had here. I was talking with a girl that told me "it's ok if my future husband cheats, as long as I don't know about it." House stability comes first, love be damned

That's awful. What the hell China?

Desi · Jul 23, 2017

That was a pretty good article. Especially when you look at marriage as the business deal between families that it has been for generations. Still everything is very nasty all around.

Oblong Schlong · Jul 23, 2017

Grimsen said:
Sounds like Fernando's New Beginnings.

Underrated comment!

AuthenticM · Jul 23, 2017

whatsinaname said:
The article goes into that a little bit. It looks like there are many legal ways for the man to essentially keep everything. Doesn't seem like alimony/spousal support is a thing either?

wow, fuck that.

Keri said:
Women usually fair worse after divorce in the U.S. too. So, even if China had asset sharing laws similar to here, it probably wouldn't fix the disparity.

Asset sharing here is extremely fair. As is alimony. China should copy the Québec Civil Code.

televator · Jul 23, 2017

I just read a bit and there's some real double agent shit going on. lol

JesseEwiak · Jul 23, 2017

SolicitorPirate said:
It's the other way round. Men outnumber women because boys are seen as more 'valuable'

https://qz.com/848715/its-a-myth-th...use-of-the-one-child-policy-a-new-study-says/

Also, further research has shown that the actual difference was smaller than expected, as it turned out, especially in rural areas, people simply didn't register their female babies and local officials turned a blind eye.

"Writing in a study published in November in the journal China Quarterly, Kennedy and Shi found that some rural families had girls that were not reported and were tacitly acknowledged by local officials, who turned a blind eye in return for social stability. Kennedy said that many of these girls were not registered at birth, but would later show up in statistics at junior high and marriage age. Over 25 years, as many as 25 million women who are present in later statistics did not exist at birth, the researchers said.
For example, when comparing the number of children born in 1990 with the number of 20 year-olds in 2010, they found four million more people in the later cohort, with about one million more women than men."

MonkeyKing · Jul 24, 2017

JesseEwiak said:
https://qz.com/848715/its-a-myth-th...use-of-the-one-child-policy-a-new-study-says/

Also, further research has shown that the actual difference was smaller than expected, as it turned out, especially in rural areas, people simply didn't register their female babies and local officials turned a blind eye.

"Writing in a study published in November in the journal China Quarterly, Kennedy and Shi found that some rural families had girls that were not reported and were tacitly acknowledged by local officials, who turned a blind eye in return for social stability. Kennedy said that many of these girls were not registered at birth, but would later show up in statistics at junior high and marriage age. Over 25 years, as many as 25 million women who are present in later statistics did not exist at birth, the researchers said.
For example, when comparing the number of children born in 1990 with the number of 20 year-olds in 2010, they found four million more people in the later cohort, with about one million more women than men."

Interesting read, thanx for the link.

SRG01 · Jul 24, 2017

JesseEwiak said:
https://qz.com/848715/its-a-myth-th...use-of-the-one-child-policy-a-new-study-says/

Also, further research has shown that the actual difference was smaller than expected, as it turned out, especially in rural areas, people simply didn't register their female babies and local officials turned a blind eye.

"Writing in a study published in November in the journal China Quarterly, Kennedy and Shi found that some rural families had girls that were not reported and were tacitly acknowledged by local officials, who turned a blind eye in return for social stability. Kennedy said that many of these girls were not registered at birth, but would later show up in statistics at junior high and marriage age. Over 25 years, as many as 25 million women who are present in later statistics did not exist at birth, the researchers said.
For example, when comparing the number of children born in 1990 with the number of 20 year-olds in 2010, they found four million more people in the later cohort, with about one million more women than men."

To add on this, the "one child" policy is moreso that only the first child qualifies for state benefits, while any child afterward does not qualify. At least, from the 1980s or so onward?

onken · Jul 24, 2017

dreamcastmaster said:
I'd have probably phrased this a little more diplomatically, though. Generally what happens is that young adults are pressured into marrying young and that pressure is ramped up the closer you get to 30. A lot of rural families see marriage to a working man as an income for retirement.
You'll pick up on a lot of insecurity from both sides, men thinking they need money to get a wife and woman thinking men will loose interest if they get too old. Wind the clock forward, the man gets older and has a successful business and now can get that woman he wanted due to having money. A lot of young women look for a guy that is already successful and an older guy as well to bypass that period in her life in her early 20's where a guy her own age would be at an entry level job.

I'm just so grateful this sort of thing never happens in the West. Phew.

dreamcastmaster · Jul 24, 2017

There are ways around the one child policy (if you have money of course), you can apply to the local government for authoriseation or just give birth abroad and claim the baby is adopted. Those are just two methods I heard of.
For the undocumented rural girls the authorities might have turned a blind eye but in a story my friend recounted to me the local police would blackmail these families for livestock or rice so they they would keep quiet about the unregistered children.

Support NeoGAF

China's Mistress Dispellers

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Similar threads