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Ace Attorney: Spirit of Justice SPOILER Thread | Yes, episode 5 actually happened

S

saturnine

Member
Finished the game last night, some thoughts :

- Khura'in was a great idea for a setting. "The Dark Age of the Law" done right. I completely bought that a backwater magical country could have a fascist court system where lawyers contradicting the word of the crown would be considered heretics that deserved death. Great stake rising, though I don't know how they will ever top that one in the future.

In this regard, Case 1 was pretty damn good despite dragging on a bit (an issue with the whole game really). Black metal jesus was fun and all, but it really shone in how smoothly it introduced the setting and the DCA.

- Really good cast. The only character I found insufferable was the politician dude, but thankfully he didn't stay too long. Some of the best witnesses in the series, with the Armie reveal winning the "aw shit, this is just too sad..." award.

- The dude that decided to have so many flashbacks need to be ka-powed a few dozen times. They were absolutely insufferable by the end of the game.

- The foreshadowing needed to be dialled back. It absolutely ruined the surprise aspect of the game. It's a shame because the scenarios featured the material for some great twists, but the game was so heavy handed in its foreshadowing that the mysteries completely evaporated.

Case 5 was good, but I guessed every twist before the trial even started. Dhurke "felt lightheaded, can't remember what happened, is going to die soon, has a big secret, Apollo won't like the truth", Nayna "has been missing, has grey hair like the queen who is actually still alive and can channel people"? Come on game, give the player some credit. Oh, and I know not everyone necessarily knows about prosopagnosia (which by the way doesn't actually make people's faces a blurry mess, game), but when you do, that twist is ridiculously limp.

I think the only time the game somewhat blindsided me was with the Jove Justice picture, even if it did its best effort to ruin it once again ("Really, Dhurke never found out anything new about the case in twenty years? *WINK* *WINK* *NUDGE* *NUDGE*")

Somewhat related, I also found the evidences to be too straightforward. For example, the Mr Reus poster in case 2 (wow would you look at that scar by the way here's a pic of the victim with his smooth and silky forearms in plain sight). Conversely, the séances were stupidly finicky at times (like with the flames fluttering in the wind in case 3 or the explosion sound in case 5).


I enjoyed the game, but it didn't have the "desperately trying to think of a link between the evidences and what's being argued" feel I'm looking for in the series. It's a shame, because like I said the "surprise!" material is all there, all they had to do was obfuscate the road to the truth better. It was otherwise really good, though a bit weird on the technical side. There were quite a few framerate issues (which I find hilarious when talking about a visual novel), but to be fair the models are really great, especially for a 3DS game. Though the animation... I wasn't fond of the mocap performances. They worked well for the Khura'inese characters because the fluidity gave them an an air of importance, but the "action" scenes were laughably bad, especially in case 5. I burst out laughing at Apollo putting his hand in the air when the guards stormed the room. I hope someone will make a gif of it.
 
M

-Mutsukki-

Member
One thing I missed a lot was the lack of having to present evidence to people in the investigation stages. That was such a big deal in earlier games, but in AA5 and this one you're pratically told what to do and it's just once or twice throughout a case. They really need to step up their game a little, I feel like their experience with AAI sometimes take over when deciding what to do

edit: oops i meant AA6 but AA5 is even worse on that
 
K

Kyolux

Member
Don't actually want to be spoiled, but thought it'd be simpler to ask here.

I'm on episode 5, I stopped last night after going to see the Queen and asking her about Amara still being alive.

About how long until the actual courtroom part starts? And how long does it last compared to the first case in episode 5?

-Mutsukki- said:
One thing I missed a lot was the lack of having to present evidence to people in the investigation stages. That was such a big deal in earlier games, but in AA5 and this one you're pratically told what to do and it's just once or twice throughout a case. They really need to step up their game a little, I feel like their experience with AAI sometimes take over when deciding what to do
Click to expand...

Have to agree with this. The investigation parts seems to have been way toned down. While playing I don't mind as much, because these used to drag a lot sometimes. But in retrospective, they used to matter much more.
 
M

MrBadger

Member
RurouniZel said:
Stayed up waaaaaay too late last night and I don't have enough time to type out my full thoughts on the game (maybe later), but one thing I wanted to mention was how I felt like Amara was filling a similar role to Iris in AA3 where she wasn't technically the criminal but did in-fact aid the criminal. Only difference being she wasn't thrown in jail for it for reasons. I guess being a virtual goddess helps. XD
Click to expand...

Well the only crime in Ace Attorney is murder. Everything else is fair game.

Although the law seems to be getting increasingly lenient. (RFTA)
Lana, Jake Marshall
and (T&T)
Iris
get locked up, but (Dual Destinies)
Blackquill's released and prosecuting again as soon as his innocence is proven in an unofficial trial, Marlon is back at the aquarium shortly after the events of Reclaimed
and Queen Amara gets off too, but I suppose being a god and being shot would do that.

-Mutsukki- said:
One thing I missed a lot was the lack of having to present evidence to people in the investigation stages. That was such a big deal in earlier games, but in AA5 and this one you're pratically told what to do and it's just once or twice throughout a case. They really need to step up their game a little, I feel like their experience with AAI sometimes take over when deciding what to do
Click to expand...

I think there are also moments that would have worked much better if this was using the AAI format. Especially that "hostage" scene. So many characters in one area yet the game only ever renders one at a time, and displays action by fading to black and playing sound effects.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
-Mutsukki- said:
One thing I missed a lot was the lack of having to present evidence to people in the investigation stages. That was such a big deal in earlier games, but in AA5 and this one you're pratically told what to do and it's just once or twice throughout a case. They really need to step up their game a little, I feel like their experience with AAI sometimes take over when deciding what to do
Click to expand...

Yup, this has been my biggest issue with the 3DS titles. Past games utilized the Investigation period a lot more. There was much more thinking involved in it and interaction with the NPCs. Now it's mostly just about looking at the environment and getting very basic statements from NPCs. Both Phoenix and Apollo's abilities really centered around conversations in the investigation period rather than during the trials themselves, though they did feature there as well.

This old style did run the risk of sometimes being a bit too obscure in what they wanted you to do or where you had to go in order to move the plot forward, leading to players sometimes having to go to every location and revisit every NPC and present their entire inventory to them, but overall it was an essential part of fleshing out the experience and balancing things out.

But in DD, and especially here is SoJ, the investigation period is a more streamlined and straight forward affair. Conversations are very mild and matter of fact for the most part, the investigation period in general is shorter as they've limited every case to just two investigation and two trial days max instead of three.

The trail period is the heart of the series, but it needs to be balanced out by the investigation period and the change of pace it provides to give the player breathing room from the courtroom drama and developments. The changes they've made with these last two games shifts far more of the game onto the trial period to the point that it feels like it is dragging on because where there normally would be a break and end of the trial for the day, the case instead just goes on with maybe a brief lobby break at best.
 
J

javadoze

Member
Funny thing with SoJ that I see people talking about here is that certain plot beats definitely feel like a "do-over" of DD.

-Khu'rain and its court is a better actualization of the "dark age of the law" theme of DD.

-Apollo and Dhurke is similar to Apollo and Clay, except the former has far better setup and payoff.
 
V

VegiHam

Member
Finished this a little while back. Loved it; but I haven't had time to sort my thoughts out coherently yet.

Question for y'all though, cus I've not seen this discussed elsewhere: is Roger Retinz's outfit a deliberate nod to Shadi Enigmar or just a coincidence?
 
Z

Zalman

Member
I just finished it. Holy crap I loved that ending. I didn't like Apollo in AA4, but they've made him much more likeable in 5 and 6. At this point he has more backstory than Wright.

Probably my third favorite game in the franchise after 3 and 1.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
My only real complaint with this game is that we didn't see a flashback to Kristoph. I imagine Apollo joined his office because of Dhurke, so I kinda wanted to see that connection realized.
 
G

Goodstyle

Member
Case 3 was horrendous because of that ending twist. Why wasn't Beh'leeb the true culprit? Why couldn't she have been a rebel who was found out by her husband and apprentice? Instead we got the Inmees trying very, very hard to hide their crimes and essentially murder Maya and Phoenix, and then in the end, we're supposed to feel sympathetic to them? No way. Fuck that. Fuck the Inmees.

Also, Amara should have been a villain. How hype would that have been? Ga'ran could still be the main villain, but with a different prosecutor design. Her second outfit was embarrassingly bad. Like, really, really bad. Anyways with Amara, I feel she would have been better served as the one who killed Dhurke, but was conflicted about her love for him. The whole being rescued by Dhurke plotline and then getting blackmailed after her kid was born twist was one twist too many. Rayfa should have just been Inga and Ga'ran's daughter.

Anyways, Amara should have been convinced to admit the truth like in the game, but instead of being nonfatally wounded, she should have straight up died. That way, there'd be a big problem at the end, when Rayfa would be unable to spirit channel and may never be able to much like her mother. That would be solved though, by actually summoning the Founder right there in the courtroom when Apollo figures out her true name and Rayfa gets spirit powers from her before assuming the throne... now THAT would have been a grand finale.

Remember that mural that depicted Dhurke as a devil that tempted the innocent queen? What if it was the other way around? What if it was the queen that was bad for Dhurke? That twist would have been intense. And maybe those 2 could get a little resolution where they're reunited in the Twilight Zone, and Amara finally realized Dhurke never tried to kill her, and Dhurke forgives her even after all that she's done, and they disappear together.

There also should have been a resolution to Inga's character and his love for his daughter. It felt like they were building to something, but then just dropped it halfway through. Very disappointed in that one.

Finally, Nahyuta SUCKED as a character. If he was being blackmailed to do Ga'ran's bidding, that still wouldn't explain why he was such an insufferable prick. They sure as hell didn't explain that one to me. If they were gonna have Nahyuta work for Ga'ran, it shouldn't have been through blackmail, he should have been ideologically converted to her side somehow. For him to be such an asshole, and not have a good reason for it, ruins his character.

EDIT: They also ruined Ema Skye. Used to be snarky detective with dry humour, now she's just another peppy chick in a series full of them. On top of that, she lost her backbone and just does what she's told.

.....

People reading this might think I hated this game, that's definitely not the case, it was far better than DD. Roger Retinz was one of the best AA villains of all time, Blackquill actually became a good character in Case 4, and Paul Atishon was a seriously hilarious (I loved his Nixon reference). Definitely a good game! Just could have been amazing with a few tweaks.
 
C

Cody_D165

Banned
This was a top 3 Ace Attorney game IMO. I was not expecting this from the few import impressions I had heard and the first couple hours of the game. Overall, really really enjoyed it. What a pleasant surprise, seriously. Really solid stuff.

Case 5 is great from start to finish although it easily could have been divided into 2 cases. I had no idea about the Phoenix and Apollo faceoff going into this game and when Phoenix revealed himself as Atishon's lawyer it was a total "oh shit" moment. It was incredible experiencing a Wright trial from the other side.

Dhurke twist is legendary. An incredibly executed tragedy that will no doubt go down as one of the best moments in the series.

Did want to voice some minor gripes though. The name puns. Jesus Christ the name puns. They've gotten so bad. And honestly not in a good way. Some of them plainly lack any semblance of creativity. Like I didn't think we'd ever surpass Deid Mann, but with a patrolman named "Paht Rohl," a stranger named "Anohn Ihmus," a politician named "Paul Atishon," and a monk named "Puh'ray Zehlot" whose true name is revealed to be FUCKING "RHEEL NEH'MU" OH COME THE FUCK ON WHY. (But inga's full name was hilarious so it's not all bad.)

I'd also agree with those who have stated that Nahuyta was the worst prosecutor we've seen even if I do like his character design and prayer bead gimmick. Overstayed his welcome by showing up in the states too. I'd have liked to see, say, Klavier instead in Case 4 against Athena. Ga'ran was great however, a really nice little twist going up against her at the bench.

Also I'm just gonna say it. The forensics gameplay used in the 3DS games just sucks. Like it's slow, hard to control properly and completely unresponsive at times. Like I know there's prints on this suitcase just fucking tell me whose they are if the engine for this part is going to be so garbage. It's a far cry from how good it used to be in 1-5 and AA4. I never, ever had these problems in the DS titles.
 
D

Doorman

Member
I definitely enjoyed the game over all, but I should probably try not to think about case 5 in particular too much because I can't seem to help but continue to poke various holes in it for the various things it reveals.

I kept assuming that we'd wind up seeing a more personal motivation from somebody for why the DC Act was passed in its particular form. I guess it became a failsafe for Ga'ran to ensure that no other lawyers attempted to look into Dhurke's initially-successful defense in the assassination trial? The entire country went along with such an insane situation because of alleged forged evidence in one murder plot? The setup for the setting feels like they took the idea of the "dark age of the law" from AA5 and handed it to a country that feels like this game's version of South Park. An entire populace convinced to hate not an ethnicity or religion...but an occupation? The implicit assumption that prosecutors are so obviously above the act of forging evidence themselves? I can understand trust and faith in the queen but an awful lot of common sense was thrown aside for this to have truly gone on as long as it did in the first place.

Ga'ran's whole plot in entirety winds up feeling really convoluted, and the ultimate explanation for it only really comes at the very end and feels lacking. "She wanted power," oh...well that's about as plain a villain-motivation as you can get. I wonder also if Rayfa feels really stupid now at the notion that she was unknowingly being used as a hostage to blackmail no fewer than three members of her family.

If only Ga'ran had waited literally one more night before hatching her plot to take over the country, on a day where there wasn't a completely incidental passerby that needed to be murdered for no real reason.

Can we be done for a little while with prosecutors that need to be "saved?" Nahyuta just felt like discount-Edgeworth and even finally getting him onto your side didn't feel terribly satisfying. Each of the three main attorneys now having an opposing prosecutor they had some childhood connection to has worn thin to me.

Here's hoping that the focus of AA7 turns things to Athena and gives her a chance to grow as an attorney. Let Phoenix supervise and assist for a case or two, and then give her someone new to work cases with. I know that there's been this constant escalation of stakes going on but I really wouldn't mind some good old-fashioned crime solving at this point. 6-4 was actually pretty refreshing to me for that, despite the utter Japanese-ness of it all. At least Uendo ended up becoming one of my favorite witnesses in the game, though.
 
TwoDurans

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
How long is the trial for chapter 2? I want to get to a good stopping point before SMT4:A comes out tomorrow.
 
V

Vamphuntr

Member
Considering this game is supposedly from the people behind GK2, I thought it was a bit underwhelming. Like I said before I really don't understand how you can go from GK2 to AA5 and AA6. The logic, twists and connection between cases work so well in GK2. In 5 the connections felt forced and in 6 only 1-3-5 are connected and not as elegantly as in GK2.

I really have problems when the logic or the lore and universe of the game doesn't make sense any more. It started to go downhill with AA4 for me. Like Phoenix got disbarred (unjustly) for being a fraud and they put him in charge of coming up with a better justice system that is never heard from again. The whole Lamirroir plot made little sense. People accept her as dead while she's simply amnesiac in some foreign country (you get shot in Japan and winds up blind and amnesiac in an European country?). In 5 the whole game revolves around proving Blackquill is innocent while working for Edgeworth who has a prisoner acts as a prosecutor. And in 6 Maya's trip to backward religious place makes little sense for training since commoners have no spiritual powers, they hate foreigners and Royals don't share their secrets. The whole DC acts thing seems like something the writing team came up with to raise the stakes to ridiculous levels while the citizen of Khur'ain realizes it's barbaric and stupid after 2 trials.

I think they dumbed down investigations in 5 and 6 because people complained. I loved the classic investigations but I remember hearing about how people got stuck in them since you rarely have hints that you examined everything. You also took damage in AA2 and AA3 when you failed psycho-locks and you can initiate them without having the evidence required in your inventory.

I agree the forensics parts are terrible. The one with the suit case and magic coffin was let spray everywhere on this part, blow and repeat until it's over. To be fair, Rise from the Ashes still has the worst one with the 3D viewer with the Urn/Blue Badger.

At this point I'm in Team Reboot. Phoenix story is over again. He saved Maya again and now she's the master of Kurain. His downfall was reversed and all his good. Apollo plot is also over even though it was handled badly in 4 and 5. 6-5 redeems him and his his story nicely, he beats his boss and takes over his father dream and practice. Athena was pretty pointless outside of being the twist in 5-5. She's basically like the two others with boob and the worst gimmick of all (time for a therapy session again your Honor!) her best attribute is that she comes with Blackquill which is probably the best character from the second trilogy.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
Just finished the game.

+ Loved the seances. Not only did the visions add a dab of creepiness, but it's a fun new spin on the regular contradiction spotting. I would love a game with just Psyche Locks and these. Toss out that AJ bracelet and Mood Matrix crap.
+ Ignoring Case 4, every case felt meaty and satisfying. Switching between AJ in "America" and PW in Khura'in was fun.
+ I really like how they are developing and aging all of the characters. Few series do this. It's a really cool way to keep the characters dynamic and changing. Very excited to see what comes next. Especially if they bring AJ's mother(?) back into the mix.
+ The new prosecutor was a nice change of pace. He wasn't as over the top as the ones we've had in the past, so he felt a bit more grounded. Much better than the walking cringe that is Blackquill.
+ Production value was great. Graphics looked good; loved a lot of the detailed animations, idle or otherwise. Even though no individual music track stood out to me, there were no grating tunes either. Overall very happy with how the game looks and sounds.

- Case 4. Wow, what a stinker. I get that it adds some very vital development to Athena (and Blackquill), but what a throwaway case to use. It was short, unexciting, and inconsequential for being the penultimate case. Add in a mix of unlikable characters that almost rival Turnabout Big Top and this is what you end up with. I think Case 4's biggest crime is squandering the multiple personality idea. I almost want to consider the Dr. Buff thing Case 4 instead.
- A little too much suspension of belief. I will wholeheartedly eat up spirit channeling, but a whole country that demonized lawyers? That's like some weird uncanny valley of ideals.
- Case 5 was fantastic, but I felt the twists were way too telegraphed. Amara was obviously Nayna as soon as they talked about her "disappearing". Ga'ran was obviously the one behind it all because PW games don't let people like Dhurke or Amara be murderers. The only twist I was surprised by was that Dhurke was dead the whole time. For just a little bit, I felt like chill down my spine that I craved.
- - - Those pun names. Please. Stop.
- - - - Gumshoe please!

I think after AA5, I started getting tired of the series. AA5 fell flat on every level and really made me doubt the series's future without Takumi. AA6 definitely relit that flame. I think this was overall one of the strongest in the series. It's definitely a contender for first place pending another playthrough of AA3. The fact that I think it can stand up to AA3, which had 2 games that built up to it, is a testament to how much I enjoyed this one.

Really optimistic for AA7. My only fear is that Athena and how shitty Mood Matrix will be replacing AJ (and his equally shitty bracelet, I suppose).
 
F

Firebrand

Member
I actually like the concept of the bracelet, it's just that it's way too easy. The only one I remember having trouble with was that weirdo journalist in AA4-4.
 
V

Vibranium

Banned
Well I loved it. I feel like Athena will get more development next game too. Apollo has really shone and gotten a great amount of backstory. Just wish the pun names were better, c'mon Janet, you can use your head better than that.

I still want Takumi's games Capcom, DGS1 and the upcoming sequel please.
 
R

Red Arremer

Member
I like the Mood Matrix actually.
I don't like Apollo's bracelet, however, for one specific reason: You can't change between statement parts. You have to sit through the -entire- bit if you missed the tell, which is especially infuriating if the tell is at the end of a long ass segment and you just missed it by the fraction of a second.
This actually pissed me off quite a bit in this game, because Dhurke's tell with the shiny on his sleeve took me forever to notice, too.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
Firebrand said:
I actually like the concept of the bracelet, it's just that it's way too easy. The only one I remember having trouble with was that weirdo journalist in AA4-4.
Click to expand...
It becomes an annoying pixel hunt that is greatly hindered by not being able to rewind (which you CAN do in seances!) There was no intellectual challenge and it broke the pace of things. I really like AJ otherwise! I even really enjoyed AA4 haha.
 
H

HiroTSK5

Member
Have also just finished this game, but I can only give my overall impressions of this game as a week passed between cases 1-3 and 4-5 (I'll get to that in a minute) so I'm already fuzzy on the specifics of those cases. My overall opinion is that the game was good, easily the best post trilogy game (excluding vs. Layton).

Case 1: Characters were fun but opening cases really shouldn't be longer than 20-30 minutes.
Case 2: Trucy's fun but having never finished 4 (gave up after 4-2) a lot of the backstory was lost on me.
Case 3: The end really paid-off for me, even if Maya feels like a foot-note.
Case 4: The reason I didn't touch the game for week; the case begins with just Athena and Blackquill and I immediately closed my 3DS. Fortunately my suspicions were only half-right as the case ended up being fun, but at the same time I spent the whole case wishing I was back in Kurai'in where the important events with the characters I cared about were. This should have been case 2 as we could have gotten Athena out of the way early and with case 2 happening later the reveal that Apollo and Nahyuta were brothers would have been the perfect lead-in to case 5.
Case 5A: While Nick being coerced into the case was obvious, it seems weird that they introduce Pearl and Edgeworth with this case and then do pretty much nothing with them.
Case 5B: I really liked the twists and it was a great send-off for Apollo, a character I've never cared for. the culprit was obvious but they almost always are and the journey to get there was amazing.

Game-wise I'm glad most of the trials were done in one go with very little investigation, the games always dip in quality the second you step out of the courtroom.
Hyper-sensitivity and the Mood Matrix were always sore points for me and I'm glad Nahyuta shutdown one and called out the other for it's bullshit.
Speaking of which, Nahyuta was a fine prosecutor but way overused, was there really no one else they could have used for case 4, Edgeworth was around for god's sake and AA4 prosecutor guy's model from the previous game cameos.

My hope for the next game is a return to form with Nick and Maya (who gets side-lined super hard) solving cases, it'd also be nice if Edgeworth had a more prominent role in one of these games since he always seems relegated to cameo roles and you could still have Athena, Blackquill and Trucy doing their own thing.
 
D

Doorman

Member
I talked about it in the non-spoiler thread once already but I really feel like Apollo's bracelet segments fit into the game way better when they were a trial mechanic like in AA4 rather than an investigation thing, both gameplay-wise and thematically. Lowering the need for it down to literally one statement removed half of the challenge of using the bracelet at all, that being looking between the "macro" testimony to try and pinpoint which specific statements or witness-poses deserved further scrutiny. In games 5 and 6 they've streamlined it to the point of making it pointlessly-simplistic. We already had Psyche-locks as a means of realizing someone's lying during investigations, Apollo applying extra scrutiny to someone on the stand where they couldn't as easily worm away made it feel more satisfying to nail a tic.

If they're going to continue to make it boring, then I guess I'm not against doing away with it (frankly it can take the dumbed-down psyche-locks with it if that's the case) but I hope there's at least something interesting in the next game that's mechanically interesting. I don't mind the mood matrix from a gameplay perspective but the way they write it into trial cases feels awfully hammy.

Also, Athena's ability must be awfully impressive to catch people's emotions even when they're sent through a voice modulator and replayed through a drone speaker, damn.

HiroTSK5 said:
My hope for the next game is a return to form with Nick and Maya (who gets side-lined super hard) solving cases, it'd also be nice if Edgeworth had a more prominent role in one of these games since he always seems relegated to cameo roles and you could still have Athena, Blackquill and Trucy doing their own thing.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree, it would feel awfully boring to me to have gone this far in the series only to go back to focusing on the oldest characters who've already completed all of their conceivable development and are all individually very powerful and highly-regarded in their fields. Phoenix only really worked in this game to me because the stakes of the Khura'in trials introduced an element he'd never faced before, and it made more sense to use him as the introduction to that whole system as the most capable attorney, so that he could eventually help guide Apollo through it for the climax. Athena's initial reason for becoming a lawyer has already been resolved now that Simon's free, but she still has a long way to go and the writers have an opportunity now to take her in a direction that could be very different than Phoenix and Apollo's paths.
 
L

Lumination

'enry 'ollins
The bracelet and Mood Matrix's worst crime is how suspended my belief needs to be. Psyche locks were like, ok, you could tell they were lying with magic, but you still used evidence to prove your point. Apparently nervous twitches and emotions through your voice is enough to make a claim now.

Doorman said:
I have to disagree, it would feel awfully boring to me to have gone this far in the series only to go back to focusing on the oldest characters who've already completed all of their conceivable development and are all individually very powerful and highly-regarded in their fields. Phoenix only really worked in this game to me because the stakes of the Khura'in trials introduced an element he'd never faced before, and it made more sense to use him as the introduction to that whole system as the most capable attorney, so that he could eventually help guide Apollo through it for the climax. Athena's initial reason for becoming a lawyer has already been resolved now that Simon's free, but she still has a long way to go and the writers have an opportunity now to take her in a direction that could be very different than Phoenix and Apollo's paths.
Click to expand...
Totally agreed. I would give up Gumshoe if it meant Edgeworth doesn't come back. I liked him, but his story has been told. I really like how this series has been developing their characters; it would be a shame to throw it away now. That said, I would totally be down for him to be a prosecutor mentor in the future though.
 
B

BossRush

Member
Honestly for the next game, I'd probably want something even farther in the future, maybe a good ten to twenty years. With Athena as a mentor to someone new.

There's just too much going down that I kinda want a soft reset
 
S

spiritfox

Member
I think Capcom has too much riding on Wright to do a reset. Look what happened the last time Takumi tried to do that (we got AA4).
 
D

Doorman

Member
BossRush said:
Honestly for the next game, I'd probably want something even farther in the future, maybe a good ten to twenty years. With Athena as a mentor to someone new.

There's just too much going down that I kinda want a soft reset
Click to expand...

I almost feel like this is something that they're kind of setting up to do already, anyway, given how many of the recurring characters they've now given excuses to for not showing up in the future. Juggling all three attorneys was too much, but now with Apollo out of the picture (and probably Ema too for a while, from the sound of it) in Khura'in, Trucy hitting it big with her magic shows, Maya acting as the master in Kurain with Pearl training and assisting, things can easily fall into place for a reset that basically leaves Athena, Simon, and a whole lot of blank space to introduce characters and elements that are particular to them. I see what the writers mean about having a lot of options of where an AA7 could go, because when it comes to the older characters they really can pick and choose as much or as little as they want, and anything left aside can be easily justified and just as easily called back to later, if necessary.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
Going back and watching let's play videos of the earlier AA games, I confirmed my feeling that I much preferred PLvsAA over this game. Spoiler for that game, but
The Golden Court did the suicide revelation so much cleanerj and much more emotionally resonant
than case 3 of this game. Even though case 3 is by far the best case in AA6, the contrivances of the suicide scheme and that we had to be dragged through multiple suspects sort of lessened the impact of the emotional scene at the end. Furthermore we didn't have as much time to learn about the story and the background of the Inmees because they weren't given as much depth, and instead time was mostly spent on unraveling all the twists. All we know of them that they are a loving couple, very nice to other people, and that they ended up as rebels.
And compare that to what we learned of Jean Greyerl over the course of the case.

So when I saw the post on the main thread listing AA6-3 as top tier, and I do actually agree with that in isolation... but then PLvsAA-3 can only be a tier above that.
 
N

NexusCell

Member
Totakeke said:
Going back and watching let's play videos of the earlier AA games, I confirmed my feeling that I much preferred PLvsAA over this game. Spoiler for that game, but
The Golden Court did the suicide revelation so much cleanerj and much more emotionally resonant
than case 3 of this game. Even though case 3 is by far the best case in AA6, the contrivances of the suicide scheme and that we had to be dragged through multiple suspects sort of lessened the impact of the emotional scene at the end. Furthermore we didn't have as much time to learn about the story and the background of the Inmees because they weren't given as much depth, and instead time was mostly spent on unraveling all the twists. All we know of them that they are a loving couple, very nice to other people, and that they ended up as rebels.
And compare that to what we learned of Jean Greyerl over the course of the case.

So when I saw the post on the main thread listing AA6-3 as top tier, and I do actually agree with that in isolation... but then PLvsAA-3 can only be a tier above that.
Click to expand...

I mean, on most rankings I've seen 6-5 is usually ranked higher then 6-3.

But in any case, I'm pretty sure that the Golden Court is considered the best case in PLvAA for that reason.
 
T

Totakeke

Member
NexusCell said:
I mean, on most rankings I've seen 6-5 is usually ranked higher then 6-3.

But in any case, I'm pretty sure that the Golden Court is considered the best case in PLvAA for that reason.
Click to expand...

Ah, I myself would definitely place 6-5 a tier lower than 6-3. Dhurke twist was awesome, cave adventure was great, but otherwise too few high notes in a case that long.
 
Z

Zalman

Member
spiritfox said:
I think Capcom has too much riding on Wright to do a reset. Look what happened the last time Takumi tried to do that (we got AA4).
Click to expand...
I think what they did with this game in terms of character balance was great. Wright is certainly portrayed as the main character, but the game was really more about Apollo. Even Athena got her own case, which I did enjoy even if it felt like awkward filler. The trio of characters they have right now is fantastic and a great way to make it feel fresh without completely getting rid of Wright.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
MrBadger said:
I think there are also moments that would have worked much better if this was using the AAI format. Especially that "hostage" scene. So many characters in one area yet the game only ever renders one at a time, and displays action by fading to black and playing sound effects.
Click to expand...

The way characters fade in and out is getting kind of old, especially when people are having exchanges. My hope is that, if NX is what it is rumored to be and features a larger, higher resolution screen than any Nintendo portable before, as well as a lot more processing power than before, we could get more dynamic and complex scenes in AA7. Being able to see every character you're currently traveling with at all times would be nice. Perhaps naturally place them in the environment engaging in activities, rather than just standing in front of you so they don't block the screen (if the next game is on whatever succeeds 3DS, I imagine we might see full 3D environments for every scene which would allow them to blend in more). With the whole "use the arrows to move around the environment with the arrows" mechanic, it seems like they would like to offer exploration in a way that is still simple. I hope they figure it out for the next game.
 
T

TrueBlue

Member
AA7 will conclude the Apollo/Trucy mother storyline for sure. If it the game features the return of Gumshoe then we'll basically have all loose ends tied up. Then a soft reboot would definitely be on the table.

That being said, I wonder how enthusiastic they would be to not use Phoenix Wright as the MC. He sells, for all intents and purposes.
 
D

Deleted member 465307

Unconfirmed Member
TrueBlue said:
AA7 will conclude the Apollo/Trucy mother storyline for sure. If it the game features the return of Gumshoe then we'll basically have all loose ends tied up. Then a soft reboot would definitely be on the table.
Click to expand...

If this is how the series progressed, I'd be very happy.
 
G

Groof

Junior Member
I would definitely play an alternate universe with Maya as the lead attorney. I'd also be interested in seeing how they'd handle a completely new cast, but I don't think they're confident enough for that
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
I really like this game. Apollo's finally legit, more legit than postAA5 Wright too. I understand why people don't like AA5 even though j enjoyed it for the most part, but I think this is the best sequel to AA5 we could have gotten. Even if the prosecutor is the weakest link, we still got Rayfa and Dhurke. I also agree that it did the whole "Dark Age of the Law" thing while seeming much less forced, which is saying something.

Dhurke is such a One Piece character that I'm surprised his name isnt Dhurke Sahdman D.

TrueBlue said:
AA7 will conclude the Apollo/Trucy mother storyline for sure. If it the game features the return of Gumshoe then we'll basically have all loose ends tied up. Then a soft reboot would definitely be on the table.

That being said, I wonder how enthusiastic they would be to not use Phoenix Wright as the MC. He sells, for all intents and purposes.
Click to expand...
Mannnn, the next game is gonna be great. Polly and the gang back together doing mystic adventures, Athena, Gumshoe, and Blackquill? Please. Just let Phoenix sit on the sidelines this time.

GustyGardner said:
I loved them, Rheel Neh'mu had me cracking up.
Click to expand...
The best part is like every character in the room says something like "Well if that's his real name", "That was his real name huh?"
 
F

FStubbs

Member
TrueBlue said:
AA7 will conclude the Apollo/Trucy mother storyline for sure. If it the game features the return of Gumshoe then we'll basically have all loose ends tied up. Then a soft reboot would definitely be on the table.

That being said, I wonder how enthusiastic they would be to not use Phoenix Wright as the MC. He sells, for all intents and purposes.
Click to expand...

Isn't it already concluded though? They're learning the truth offscreen.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
Enduin said:
Now that I'm actually thinking about Case 5, none of that shit makes any sense.

Inga killed Dhurke and was attempting to overthrow the Queen, but Inga didn't know he had actually killed Dhurke as he ran off in fear, nor did he know if Maya was still there to exchange, or would know she wasn't had he returned at any point when Maya was pretending to be Dhurke in the US. So why threaten Dhurke and co to bring the Founder's Stone in exchange for Maya when Dhurke would presumably know Maya wasn't being held captive anymore as he likely rescued her? Plus how did Maya put Dhurke's body in the sarcophagus in the first place when only Inga and the Queen had keys to it?

Then how did Ga'ran know that Dhurke was dead and in the Sarcophagus so she could use his clothes to pose as him and kill Inga, seeing as Inga didn't know if he was dead or not and wouldn't have told her about what occurred at all since he was conspiring against her?
Click to expand...
Dhurke did know Maya wasn't being held captive. That's why when he calls Inga on the phone he says something like "you and I know there's a good reason why you won't hurt her". He goes back because of Rayna and Amara. Inga was threatening Phoenix with Maya because Phoenix didn't know Maya escaped/was standing right in front of him. Amara I believe is stated to have put Dhurke's body in the coffin after its discovered later. Although that could have been a lie because the queen could have stolen it too, they both put the clothes on.

I believe Inga wasn't really conspiring against the queen, as his prospagnosia means that he was trying to get the Orb for her. It was just a trumped up excuse to hide the fact that the queen had no spiritual power/distance herself from the crime. There was no coup. Although I guess that means the note in the safe would have to be a plant.

Make sense? 😁

FStubbs said:
Isn't it already concluded though? They're learning the truth offscreen.
Click to expand...
I doubt it'll happen off screen. They make a point to show that Apollo, Ema, and Nahyuta will be staying in Khura'in for the foreseeable future, and it's strongly hinted that Trucy would be joining them. Along with Apollo's mountain of cases it's the perfect set-up for Apollo's mom to reveal herself/get involved with some Jove related case.
 
E

Enduin

No bald cap? Lies!
Titanoboa said:
Dhurke did know Maya wasn't being held captive. That's why when he calls Inga on the phone he says something like "you and I know there's a good reason why you won't hurt her". He goes back because of Rayna and Amara. Inga was threatening Phoenix with Maya because Phoenix didn't know Maya escaped/was standing right in front of him. Amara I believe is stated to have put Dhurke's body in the coffin after its discovered later. Although that could have been a lie because the queen could have stolen it too, they both put the clothes on.

I believe Inga wasn't really conspiring against the queen, as his prospagnosia means that he was trying to get the Orb for her. It was just a trumped up excuse to hide the fact that the queen had no spiritual power/distance herself from the crime. There was no coup. Although I guess that means the note in the safe would have to be a plant.

Make sense? ��
Click to expand...

Not really.

If Inga wasn't actually conspiring against the Queen, what motive did she have to kill him? Just to use him to help quell the rebels and frame Dhurke who she knew was already dead? That's a bit extreme. Plus what was her end game? They wanted to publicly behead Dhurke, how would that work with her sister channeling him? They gonna switch bodies in front of a huge crowd?

The fact that Inga had face blindness doesn't really matter since no one knew what the Founder's Orb did or how it worked. Being face blind was just one of three barriers Inga faced since he didn't know her true name, nor could he channel spirits. The latter of which the Queen herself couldn't do, so the orb was equally useless for her.

Also that still all requires that Inga never bothered to go back to the tomb to see if the guy he shot 3 times was actually alive or dead or if his hostage was still there or not. Sure he might not have, but it would be kind of odd he or any of his subordinates never bothered. And it still doesn't make sense to use it to blackmail Phoenix, while he did threaten Dhurke with Nahyuta/Rayfa/Amara, he had no way of knowing if Phoenix knew of Maya's rescue or not. I mean why wouldn't she contact him after being set free.

It also means that Ga'ran had to have entered the Tomb for some reason, found Dhurke's body, hid it, discovered Inga's treacherous actions or knew about them already but never acted on them, sat on it for a day, also knew Maya was channeling Dhurke and that Inga had threatened him to come back and meet at 3pm and devised her whole plan to murder Inga, frame Dhurke, steal the orb and use Amara and Rayfa to do it all in less than a day's prep time.

There's just a lot big assumptions needed for this case to work. Might be the case for most of PW cases when you really break em down, but this one was the one that really stuck out to me while I was playing/right after.
 
T

Tinfoilhatsron

Banned
I just beat this and you know what? I really want another AA game, with a new female lawyer. Not Athena because she's fucking terrible. That'd be sweet.

Or a Mia prequel game. I've always wanted one ever since T&T.

Only in my dreams.


I'm going to write my thoughts on this tommorrow. But what a ride. I feel like this is dumping Apollo off for a new attorney to come in. Mayhaps a guest case once a game. I never liked Apollo until this game but damn. This character is a literal plot bomb. Somehow his adopted dad is the leader of a rebellion group. Lol.
 
N

nickcv

Member
saturnine said:
Finished the game last night, some thoughts :

- Khura'in was a great idea for a setting. "The Dark Age of the Law" done right. I completely bought that a backwater magical country could have a fascist court system where lawyers contradicting the word of the crown would be considered heretics that deserved death. Great stake rising, though I don't know how they will ever top that one in the future.

In this regard, Case 1 was pretty damn good despite dragging on a bit (an issue with the whole game really). Black metal jesus was fun and all, but it really shone in how smoothly it introduced the setting and the DCA.

- Really good cast. The only character I found insufferable was the politician dude, but thankfully he didn't stay too long. Some of the best witnesses in the series, with the Armie reveal winning the "aw shit, this is just too sad..." award.

- The dude that decided to have so many flashbacks need to be ka-powed a few dozen times. They were absolutely insufferable by the end of the game.

- The foreshadowing needed to be dialled back. It absolutely ruined the surprise aspect of the game. It's a shame because the scenarios featured the material for some great twists, but the game was so heavy handed in its foreshadowing that the mysteries completely evaporated.

Case 5 was good, but I guessed every twist before the trial even started. Dhurke "felt lightheaded, can't remember what happened, is going to die soon, has a big secret, Apollo won't like the truth", Nayna "has been missing, has grey hair like the queen who is actually still alive and can channel people"? Come on game, give the player some credit. Oh, and I know not everyone necessarily knows about prosopagnosia (which by the way doesn't actually make people's faces a blurry mess, game), but when you do, that twist is ridiculously limp.

I think the only time the game somewhat blindsided me was with the Jove Justice picture, even if it did its best effort to ruin it once again ("Really, Dhurke never found out anything new about the case in twenty years? *WINK* *WINK* *NUDGE* *NUDGE*")

Somewhat related, I also found the evidences to be too straightforward. For example, the Mr Reus poster in case 2 (wow would you look at that scar by the way here's a pic of the victim with his smooth and silky forearms in plain sight). Conversely, the séances were stupidly finicky at times (like with the flames fluttering in the wind in case 3 or the explosion sound in case 5).


I enjoyed the game, but it didn't have the "desperately trying to think of a link between the evidences and what's being argued" feel I'm looking for in the series. It's a shame, because like I said the "surprise!" material is all there, all they had to do was obfuscate the road to the truth better. It was otherwise really good, though a bit weird on the technical side. There were quite a few framerate issues (which I find hilarious when talking about a visual novel), but to be fair the models are really great, especially for a 3DS game. Though the animation... I wasn't fond of the mocap performances. They worked well for the Khura'inese characters because the fluidity gave them an an air of importance, but the "action" scenes were laughably bad, especially in case 5. I burst out laughing at Apollo putting his hand in the air when the guards stormed the room. I hope someone will make a gif of it.
Click to expand...


I completely agree: I could guess 90% of the stuff the very moment the evidence even appeared.

oh look a parachute!
picture of apollo's father where I can finally see his face? I wonder what that is for!

There's not enough mystery which is a real shame because the setting was great.
I just wanted more trials in Kura'hin and not that much stuff back home.

Trials and Tribulation's last case is still a masterpiece when it comes to complexity and same can be said about the original Ema case at the end of AA1.

Give us some more credit Capcom! Now that you even introduced the "help system" you really have no more reasons to hold back!
 
M

Memento Mori

Member
mdtauk said:
At one point in Case 5, I was convinced The Founder's Orb and the Ami Fey Crystal were the same thing, and the founder of Khura'in who's face and name was a secret, was Ami Fey, the founder or Kurain Village.

And then I expected the Queen to be found to be illegitimate, and Maya would take over!
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I thought was going to happen and I was disappointed it didn't. Right up to the end I thought Ga'ran was going to yell out Ami's name trying to channel her.
 
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