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Diablos · Nov 11, 2016

Crab said:
If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't much, but: firstly, I still think the UK fucked up more. Trump is for four years, Brexit is forever. So you're probably not the 2016 titleholders for biggest fuckup. Secondly, everyone else in the Western world is going through pretty similar troubles right now. The death of industrialization is driving the working classes towards authoritarianism everywhere. So there's people all over this world looking for a solution; the struggle isn't alone.

Dude, there's no guarantee Trump stays in for only 4 years.

And even if he does he's going to have all three branches and the SCOTUS at his disposal, not to mention the vast majority of Governors and state legislatures across the nation. We could have a nationwide poll tax by 2020 for all we know. I know that sounds extreme but literally NO ONE knows how Trump is going to govern and what kind of advice he will take into consideration from the people surrounding him.

Deleted member 231381 · Nov 11, 2016

thehypocrite said:
I'll work in the campaign. I suggest Crab.

Not a natural-born US citizen, unfortunately. That'd have to be the first reform.

Y2Kev · Nov 11, 2016

Crab said:
If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't much, but: firstly, I still think the UK fucked up more. Trump is for four years, Brexit is forever. So you're probably not the 2016 titleholders for biggest fuckup. Secondly, everyone else in the Western world is going through pretty similar troubles right now. The death of industrialization is driving the working classes towards authoritarianism everywhere. So there's people all over this world looking for a solution; the struggle isn't alone.

So obviously this is going to continue. What's the end? Worker revolution?

Sirpopopop · Nov 11, 2016

People wanted a more conservative government this time around.

Going left wouldn't have been the answer.

However, I'm willing to let the far left win this civil war. We'll see what happens in 2018 & 2020.

HTupolev · Nov 11, 2016

balladofwindfishes said:
Making every state proportional would have the exact same effect without needing an amendment.

No it wouldn't. The quirk of votes being aliased away (and essentially being "worth less" if you're not in a close state) would still exist.

The non-amendment solution would be an agreement between states to choose electors so that the national popular vote winner wins the election. The coalition would have to have at least 270 electoral votes for this to enforce its system. There's an agreement for this floating around already, but it doesn't have even close to enough support.

shinra-bansho · Nov 11, 2016

Are you people serious with this legalise weed, that's the ticket crazytalk?

Also Chris bitch beer Cilizza is the new normal if you haven't noticed. There's to be no more condemnation of racism. Just whitesplaining.

Sorry little Latino American girl who asks why someone yelled at her to get her spic beaner pussy back to Mexico where she belongs. They're just anxious. Really.

balladofwindfishes · Nov 11, 2016

Crab said:
That's not actually true because electoral college votes aren't allocated proportionately, so even if you split them proportionately after that the problem remains. From some quick working out, Trump still wins if electoral college votes are split evenly because e.g. Wyoming has 3 electoral votes which is 1 per 195,000 people; but California has 55 electoral college votes which is 1 per 705,000.

Someone did the math either in this thread or another thread and if the EC was divided by proportion of the vote in states, Hillary would have won.

She did very well in Texas, Georgia, Arizona and NC, while he barely squeaked by in swing states. Compared to how he did in large blue states where he lost, she destroyed him in large red states where he lost.

Deleted member 231381 · Nov 11, 2016

balladofwindfishes said:
I actually blame terrorism. This is fear manifesting itself after decades of successful terror attacks in key population centers. It's pretty clear terrorists have won, seeing the way the world is right now.

It's not terrorism. a) Obama won after 9/11, so it isn't true for America, and b) it definitely isn't true for the rest of the world because e.g. the UK has been suffering from the Troubles and the IRA until very recently and it ended up driving people towards Blair because the Conservatives weren't seen as the party to bring peace.

Dany · Nov 11, 2016

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Nov 11, 2016

TumblingHippo said:
All the news about the cabinet positions today is just scaring me. I want it all to stop but it won't and it's too late.

Don't worry, I can make you feel better.

Two of the main contenders for the position of Secretary of State are the former House speaker Newt Gingrich and the former UN ambassador John Bolton. Not only have both of these men supported a military attack on Iran and regime change there, they are some of the closest American friends of a notorious Iranian political-militant organization known as Mojahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) which is almost universally hated inside Iran after having collaborated with Saddam Hussein in the Iran-Iraq War.

https://globalvoices.org/2016/11/10...-his-links-to-the-notorious-iranian-mek-cult/

Elaugaufein · Nov 11, 2016

Crab said:
If it's any consolation, and it probably isn't much, but: firstly, I still think the UK fucked up more. Trump is for four years, Brexit is forever. So you're probably not the 2016 titleholders for biggest fuckup. Secondly, everyone else in the Western world is going through pretty similar troubles right now. The death of industrialization is driving the working classes towards authoritarianism everywhere. So there's people all over this world looking for a solution; the struggle isn't alone.

Weirdly the last Australian election the Trump / Brexit equivalents got about 6% of the vote. But many of the alliances you have don't exist and our voting system makes entryism less attractive. Like the 10% that kirblar loathes so much preferences (and is preferenced by) our centre left party at 3:1 . Our center right conservative coalition is a party of business (with some family values politicians) and a party of deeply socially conservative agrarian socialists.

Deleted member 231381 · Nov 11, 2016

balladofwindfishes said:
Someone did the math either in this thread or another thread and if the EC was divided by proportion of the vote in states, Hillary would have won.

She did very well in Texas, Georgia, Arizona and NC, while he barely squeaked by in swing states. Compared to how he did in large blue states where he lost, she destroyed him in large red states where he lost.

I will do a spreadsheet tomorrow, but I am reasonably sure this is not true. Clinton will probably win by about 1%, and most of her big wins were in states that proportionately have less EC votes than they should. I don't think proportional EC allocation solves this.

metalslimer · Nov 11, 2016

That popular vote margin will haunt me forever. The middle of the country literally revolted against the coasts.

googleplex · Nov 11, 2016

I've been racking my Brain all day at who could run against Trump and beat him from the Left in 4 years. This election has proved that the American electorate by in large doesn't care about policy, or who is smarter, Who's more rational, or even who has the best ideals. The American people only want someone with charisma that will tell them the things they want to hear. Even if they themselves know its a lie.

The only name I can think of is John Steward. he's got the star power, the Charisma and as a bonus he's actually smart.

shinra-bansho · Nov 11, 2016

Someone make a new thread so I can lock this, please and thank you. If I don't like your title I will change it like a dictator in other words your new President.

Grexeno · Nov 11, 2016

googleplex said:
I've been racking my Brain all day at who could run against Trump and beat him from the Left in 4 years. This election has proved that the American electorate by in large doesn't care about policy, or who is smarter, Who's more rational, or even who has the best ideals. The American people only want someone with charisma that will tell them the things they want to hear. even if they themselves know its a lie.

The only name I can think of is John Steward. he's got the star power, the Charisma and as a bonus he's actually smart.

He would never ever ever ever ever run.

Deleted member 231381 · Nov 11, 2016

Elaugaufein said:
Weirdly the last Australian election the Trump / Brexit equivalents got about 6% of the vote. But many of the alliances you have don't exist and our voting system makes entryism less attractive. Like the 10% that kirblar loathes so much preferences (and is preferenced by) our centre left party at 3:1 . Our center right conservative coalition is a party of business (with some family values politicians) and a party of deeply socially conservative agrarian socialists.

Australia's politics is really different because bluntly speaking Australia's deindustrialization hasn't really happened because its industry is basically natural resource extraction. It's in a totally different political climate to almost anywhere else. We only voted One Nation because we're a nation of idiots. I'm an Australian national as well (I'm actually a triple national...). I voted!

balladofwindfishes · Nov 11, 2016

Crab said:
It's not terrorism. a) Obama won after 9/11, so it isn't true for America, and b) it definitely isn't true for the rest of the world because e.g. the UK has been suffering from the Troubles and the IRA until very recently and it ended up driving people towards Blair because the Conservatives weren't seen as the party to bring peace.

The world hasn't been the same since 9-11. It was an incredibly traumatic event and the fears and anxieties around it are still very much present, especially in the US. It's still brought up constantly in elections, almost 20 years later.

I'm not sure how you could say terrorism isn't a factor when a large part of Trump's plans included things that negatively affected Muslims, and Muslims have been the target for racial attacks since 2001, while before 2001, they weren't really noticed much at all in the country.

Crab said:
I will do a spreadsheet tomorrow, but I am reasonably sure this is not true. Clinton will probably win by about 1%, and most of her big wins were in states that proportionately have less EC votes than they should. I don't think proportional EC allocation solves this.

Her margins in states like Texas, California, New York, Washington, Oregon, Massachusetts and Illonois would boost her EV count a lot. In swing states, he'd only gain one or two votes over her, while in a state like Texas, he'd bank a lot, but proportionally, she'd grab a lot more from California, since she ran a much larger margin there than he did in major EV rich red states.

Bronx-Man · Nov 11, 2016

Looking at everything that's been said these past few days, here's what I can draw about our best bet for winning the presidency in 2020:

Gonna have to be a minority. Keeping the Obama coalition is our greatest concern. A white candidate explicitly talking about race would turn off WWC, end of story. But a minority could keep the Obama coalition right off the bat while potentially being able to get WWC on their side, which I'll get too in a second.

Experience is irrelevant. We just elected our first president to have no political or military experience whatsoever. And honestly, Obama getting inaugarated despite only being a senator proved that already. If all the "ESTABLISHMENT!!!!1!" talk proves anything, it's that the less experience, the better.

Needs to have charisma. Whether it's just a little bit or out the ass, our candidate needs charisma. We've put up three stiffs stereoptyped as corporate elitists in the past 16 years and all three have lost. Defense wins championships in football, charisma wins elections.

Hardest pill to swallow, but they're gonna have to lie their ass off to WWC. They're gonna have to promise the moon and stars to rural voters that want their jobs back over anything. Whether or not they can accomplish it is irrelevant. Bernie and Trump proved voters don't want policies, they want promises.

Looking at all this and assuming some firebrand doesn't pop up in the next 4 years, our best bets are Keith Ellison, Kamala Harris, or god forbid...Kanye West.

The Technomancer · Nov 11, 2016

I love Keith Ellison but jesus christ "first Muslim president" is a death sentence. I can think of almost nothing else that actually would mobilize the GOP base

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