Random Painted HIghway
Member
My wife's single female colleagues all struggle on the dating market. Combo of high education (phd), age, drive for success, and high standards and expectations is deadly to the bio clock.
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Are single women over 30 screwed in dating?
- Thread starter Miles Quaritch
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Well stated! I have felt the same when dating or in a serious relationship, I've wanted someone to build something with, be partners not lording over another person. I got that impression from seeing my parents and grandparents relationships.
I've never been picky about dating options (guy, 33-43, educated, kids are fine, working) but seeing every other study on dating saying that women like myself are "undateable and not wanted" is frustrating.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think so at all. There are plenty of people not settling down and getting married etc. until there late 20s to mid 30s these days as more people go through grad school etc. From a quick google, the current average age of first marriage in the US is 27 for women and 29 for males.
And if anything, I think it's harder for 30 something single males since women do still marry a big younger. Having been single in my early 30s (I'm 37 and happily engaged now) the dating pool was pretty limited--even in a big city. Granted that was partly being a highly educated (Ph D) atheist that doesn't want kids and lives in the south, so that limited the pool to begin with. But even that aside, the bulk of the 30-35 year old single females that were above average looking either had kids already, lots of baggage from a recent divorce etc.
I'd think the pool of single males would be a bit broader since they get married a couple years later on average, probably don't have full time custody of kids from a prior relationship (for people not wanting to deal with a new partners kids) etc.
And if anything, I think it's harder for 30 something single males since women do still marry a big younger. Having been single in my early 30s (I'm 37 and happily engaged now) the dating pool was pretty limited--even in a big city. Granted that was partly being a highly educated (Ph D) atheist that doesn't want kids and lives in the south, so that limited the pool to begin with. But even that aside, the bulk of the 30-35 year old single females that were above average looking either had kids already, lots of baggage from a recent divorce etc.
I'd think the pool of single males would be a bit broader since they get married a couple years later on average, probably don't have full time custody of kids from a prior relationship (for people not wanting to deal with a new partners kids) etc.
ahahahaha.
Black Republican
Member
yeah, i wonder if its worse on the eastern side of the globe?
I think it will be less ofa problem with younger generations, i think this is largely still a hangup from prior generations understanding of social etiquette and the "Game" is played.
But I agree, though ill say it probably sounds easier than it is, from a certain perspective you could think, "Wait, women are approached AND have the power to approach" but in practice there are some social hangups that exist about approaching men, there is also an issue of power, from both ends of the spectrum, there is an issue of how men react to being approached which isnt so straight forward as one might think.
But in an ideal world you are far better going after what you want than waiting for it to come, a lesson often learned in hindsight.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Haha.
I read somewhere that often times women aren't necessarily looking for successful men, but rather men who have the potential for success.
For example Ang Lee was unemployed for 6 years after college, and was a stay at home dad while his wife worked as a molecular biologist.
Then he directed his first feature at 37, and eventually won a bunch of academy awards.
I guess that motherfucker was dripping with dat sexy potential.
On things like Tinder I see a lot of profiles where women say they won't initiate conversation at all.
It's a double edged sword be too forward and people assume she's 'desperate'. But my take is if you actually have things in common it shouldn't matter. Another problem is a lot of people can't actually converse face to face anymore.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Yeah I would imagine being 30+ single, and wanting kids would be hell trying to date if I were a woman.
I'm a 34 year old guy and id prefer a mid to late 20s woman with no kids, but wants them in the future.
I'm a 34 year old guy and id prefer a mid to late 20s woman with no kids, but wants them in the future.
UnObtainium17
Member
Yep. And lots if not most of dudes with same or higher credentials are going for the younger women too.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Hmmm...
Bonus - Eating Gourmet Baby Food with Tabris:
Are we maybe overshooting with the "early 20s" estimate? Or maybe the "0" after the "2" was a typo?
God Dayumm
Banned
^ Nooooo lol
Kill Your Masters
Member
No college education or degree does most definitely not equal stupid.
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Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I'd also add that I think the expectation of equal or higher levels of "success" goes both ways for many.
As a 30 something male with a Ph D and a successful career that limited my options as well as I had/have zero interest in having a housewife, or someone with a crummy career that doesn't earn much etc.
First, I'm typically just not compatible with such people even on a friend level as it's just a fundamentally different approach to life and priorities. Second, since I don't want kids and I'm fairly independent and have never been desperate to settle down I felt no pressure to settle. If I'm going to have a partner for life, I want it to be someone who's successful and brings in a decent income so my overall standard of living is improved dramatically vs. staying single. That sounds shallow, but I don't mean it to be as obviously love, attraction and all that stuff is super important. I'm just saying I felt no pressure to settle for anything less than both. And fortunately that has paid off as my fiancee is all the above and more.
As a 30 something male with a Ph D and a successful career that limited my options as well as I had/have zero interest in having a housewife, or someone with a crummy career that doesn't earn much etc.
First, I'm typically just not compatible with such people even on a friend level as it's just a fundamentally different approach to life and priorities. Second, since I don't want kids and I'm fairly independent and have never been desperate to settle down I felt no pressure to settle. If I'm going to have a partner for life, I want it to be someone who's successful and brings in a decent income so my overall standard of living is improved dramatically vs. staying single. That sounds shallow, but I don't mean it to be as obviously love, attraction and all that stuff is super important. I'm just saying I felt no pressure to settle for anything less than both. And fortunately that has paid off as my fiancee is all the above and more.
I know, I was making a general statement. Education can be derived from multiple sources, not only college.
Yes, I aware. One of the smartest people I know doesn't have a college degree. It was a general statement, no need to be so granular
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
Sure it differs on a case by case basis but in general a man with a masters degree will have no problem dating and marrying a woman with just a bachelor's. Hell I know plenty of men who have a degree and married women with just a high school diploma.
Also because someone didn't earn a college degree that doesn't make them stupid.
Have you tried to encourage girls you know to make the first move. A lot will think of every excuse under the sun not to make the first move:
It's a guy's role
It's unladylike
Men hate it
They'd look easy
What if he says no?
It's frustrating explaining to them they don't have to worry about looking intimidating, creepy or fuck it being charismatic. Just say hello and take it from there. It's like reading this article:
http://www.xojane.com/sex/feminist-dating-app-bumble
And I just wanted to yell at her don't overthink it and say hello.
If a guy takes a girl making the first move as "desperate", then he isn't worth dating. Women shouldn't feel afraid to make the first move and deal with the rejection of people. It happens.
The only reason I'm in a relationship right now is because I initiated it. But it does kind of suck if you can only get guys' attention when you initiate because of the whole narrative that (young) women always have guys flocking to them. Hard not to think something is wrong with you if that's not the case.
No-one can say you cant want what you want, and you are indeed fortunate to find what you have, simply because having finite boundaries and managing to meet anothers finite boundaries in a very small pool of people is, well quite rare. But I imagine for everyone two people that have these finite standards, there are many, as is the kind of overall message of this thread, who wont and have to revise.
Theres an element of luck to all of this.
crimzonflame
Member
Stupidity has a certain charm - ignorance does not.
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Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
It just a matter of degree really. As someone with a Ph D, when I was dating in my 30s I wouldn't consider anyone without at least a college degree, and prioritized people with more education--be it master's, Ph Ds, lawyers, doctors etc.
It's both a matter of bettering chances of finding people with similar work habits, income levels, priorities etc. as well as being at least some what indicative of them being more of an intellectual.
Of course, if I met someone that had all those qualities and later found out they lacked a degree I wouldn't care. That just never happened to me.
On the other end of the shoe most guys will go their young and adult lives knowing that if they dont initiate, nothing will ever happen, thats quite an eye opener and I know guys who are single, have stopped caring and have no confidence because no-one has fluttered them but a wink.
Its a strange world for both sexes to navigate.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
Yep. It also just depends on how much you "need" a partner. As I said in my first post, I never want kids and have never been miserable when single, so I felt no pressure to settle for less than I wanted.
It's a different story for people who desperately want a family, especially women since they have the biological clock issue. So I do get that standards need to get lowered eventually for a lot of people in that boat.
Beer Monkey
Member
I'm almost 50 and get hit on by women in their early 30s incessantly. My GF is actually 20 years younger than me, and she likes it that way. If we broke up, I'd have my pick of a whole bunch of attractive 30-36 year olds in my neighborhood, they make it really clear.
Pretty much all older single guys have to do is not be obese and have your finances in order (no crippling debt, live alone in a decent place with a decent car) and you start to look like the most interesting man in the world to single thirtysomething women.
Whether that is fair or just is another discussion, but it is true.
Pretty much all older single guys have to do is not be obese and have your finances in order (no crippling debt, live alone in a decent place with a decent car) and you start to look like the most interesting man in the world to single thirtysomething women.
Whether that is fair or just is another discussion, but it is true.
That's why it is important for women to feel free to initiate. The current system is extremely flawed. When it comes to dating, sex, and such, acting like it is the man's role to seek and the woman's role to be sought after, it essentially treats it like these are things for men and women simply get to participate if they're lucky enough to be selected. If a man is interested in a girl and manages to hit it off and have sex with her, it's treated like he had sex and she got "fucked". The man is looked at highly by his peers for it and the woman is looked down for being "slutty". Relationships and sex shouldn't be treated like something only for men.
Bronetta
Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Every girl I've tried talking to or had an interest in has a boyfriend already. I've just given up actively pursuing a relationship and focusing on my career now. If I'm gonna meet someone along the way then so be it.
Haven't tried the whole online dating thing, maybe I'll give it a shot.
Haven't tried the whole online dating thing, maybe I'll give it a shot.
Helensmith
Member
As a 31 year old woman, I only realised this too late last year that the balance of power shifts. It is much harder for successful professional women when they are looking for a similar man for marriage and kids. Like others have said, this isn't such a concern if just looking to date for fun, not fussed about the guy's job or not fussed about kids. I am not even talking about looks, although my single female friends have high standards - perhaps they will end up lowering their standards if they don't get lucky.
By their late twenties, the ideal guys are usually in long-term relationships/married because they are the type that women in their thirties want. Ideal single guys in their thirties are usually more interested in continuing their bachelor lifestyle of dating younger girls without pressure.
I used to think I had so much in my twenties but the years fly by, especially if in one year relationships. I should have used my twenties to seriously look for a suitable husband, instead of simply relationships without a goal. I used to think maybe I'll leave kids for 38 years old and over, but since working in early pregnancy where I have seen a definite difference in younger and older women's fertility/miscarriages/abnormalities, it did change my mind. As much as I hate to admit this, should have listened to my mum...
By their late twenties, the ideal guys are usually in long-term relationships/married because they are the type that women in their thirties want. Ideal single guys in their thirties are usually more interested in continuing their bachelor lifestyle of dating younger girls without pressure.
I used to think I had so much in my twenties but the years fly by, especially if in one year relationships. I should have used my twenties to seriously look for a suitable husband, instead of simply relationships without a goal. I used to think maybe I'll leave kids for 38 years old and over, but since working in early pregnancy where I have seen a definite difference in younger and older women's fertility/miscarriages/abnormalities, it did change my mind. As much as I hate to admit this, should have listened to my mum...
SoRuffShoNuff
Member
I know, I was making a general statement. Education can be derived from multiple sources, not only college.
Yes, I know. One of the smartest people I know doesn't have a college degree. It was a general statement, no need to be so granular
That granularity is precisely why some women struggle. So many women list college educated (specific degrees) and some sort of financial qualifier as key characteristics they require in a mate that it severely limits their dating pool. The women are limiting themselves to a narrow segment of the population, a segment of the population that can attract someone much younger, equally attractive, and with a similar or better personality. The men are simply not looking for the features these older women are selling (money, education, etc...).
My wife makes 6 figures and has a masters degree and honestly that meant very little to me when we were dating. I was trying to see if she was someone I meshed with personality wise and if she would make for a good mother. The money and education didn't factor into my decision at all.
Well you havent failed, life keeps going and divorce rates will tell you a good 40%+ of marriages fail, rising the younger people get married, even good marriages.
I think its an important lesson to learn, sooner rather than later, that life owes you nothing and wont give you anything and even with the best intentions you cant guarantee yourself anything, including relationships/marriage. As daunting as this might sound people have to understand that proactivity is the only thing you have in your favour, you want something, try for it, you want it bad enough, keep trying for it.
sechsterangriff
Member
I wonder what's the percentage of women who actually think like this.
I also wonder about women who wouldn't mind a stay at home father. I would assume those with careers would be more prone to accept that kind of relationship?
UnObtainium17
Member
Im 25 and I this is what i fear. Most of the girls i just met recently that plus or minus 2 years my age are taken. Now i meet some who are single too but no fucking clue as to why I'm not that interested in going out with them. I guess i just need to keep on meet more people.
True Savior
Member
From the US census
So, outside of the within 1 year, only 12% of women are married with older men vs 52% of men.
So, outside of the within 1 year, only 12% of women are married with older men vs 52% of men.
Sumio Mondo
Member
I like my mature ladies, to be honest. Usually go for the ones a little older than me by a few years. 30+ women if they haven't had kids are pretty much in their peak of looks. At least, that's what I think.
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I think for men and women who want kids it comes down to how much they care about money/material things.
If they just love their career and care less about wealth, they're probably more likely to be fine (or even want) a stay at home mom/dad to allow them to focus on their career fulltime.
If they're more money driven and make a lot themselves and mainly work to keep making more money, they're probably more likely to want a partner of the same mindset so they can essentially double their income/standard of living.
Then you have people like me who don't want kids, and that makes it moot. I have no reason to want a stay at home partner, or someone who makes little money. I don't need a dependent, and wanted the extra income as a big part of deciding to settle down.
dragonflys545
Member
It seems to be happening a lot in Asia (China).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63x9XqAqcQ
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/10/china-leftover-women-151029141452444.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W63x9XqAqcQ
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2015/10/china-leftover-women-151029141452444.html
Roland_Gunner
Member
On sites like Tinder, even moderately attractive women get so much interest they don't have to. I met a girl through okcupid like three months after messaging her. Basically she had so many contacts she never even saw mine until she staid up one night feeling lonely. Why start something when like 50 guys have already reached out to you?
Horseticuffs
Full werewolf off the buckle
I'm nearly 37, a dad of two, and have been dating a childless 39 year old woman for nearly two years. It's been amazing! I dated younger chicks for a bit but it was exhausting. This chick is a homebody too and we just chill at the house and everything is totally relaxed.
She never had kids because the right dude never came along. When she finally met me she didn't want them, which was badass because I'd rather be dead than have a young child in my life at this point.
Y'all can keep your younger women with my blessing. When I found a woman around my age with no kids to bring to the table I though I won the lottery.
She never had kids because the right dude never came along. When she finally met me she didn't want them, which was badass because I'd rather be dead than have a young child in my life at this point.
Y'all can keep your younger women with my blessing. When I found a woman around my age with no kids to bring to the table I though I won the lottery.
Sumio Mondo
Member
D
Deleted member 752119
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think that's gender specific. The "good catches" (i.e. attractive, succesful, nice people etc.) that want to settle down and get married generally do by/before 30. To pool of people meeting those criteria that are available decreases yearly from the mid 20s on, and the single folks left are either less desirable, or just don't want to settle down and are just dating around still.
In the 30s it takes a lot of luck to find someone that meets all that stuff and hasn't been married or had kids etc. So a lot of times its finding someone that's gotten divorced/out of a long relationship without kids (or not minding the kids), or lowering standards. My fiance was married before, but never had or wanted kids, so I definitely lucked out in meeting her.
hydragonwarrior
Member
Dating without anything long term? No.
But if we're talking long term? A lot of the times, yes. If someone started dating a 30+ year old women for short term at first, and really likes her, and then starts thinking long term - many things can come up in that decision.
Do they care about having kids? If no, then it's fine. If they do, then they have to accept the possibilities of birth defects which increases dramatically with a woman's age beyond 30. Next is if she already has kids.
The moment long term is considered during dating, I think men just get picky and age becomes a big factor in moving forward with the relationship.
But if we're talking long term? A lot of the times, yes. If someone started dating a 30+ year old women for short term at first, and really likes her, and then starts thinking long term - many things can come up in that decision.
Do they care about having kids? If no, then it's fine. If they do, then they have to accept the possibilities of birth defects which increases dramatically with a woman's age beyond 30. Next is if she already has kids.
The moment long term is considered during dating, I think men just get picky and age becomes a big factor in moving forward with the relationship.
When you say the balance of power shifts what do you mean? Also do you think this article was right?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769292
Miles Quaritch
Member
Interesting article. Thanks for the link.
And I'd also be interested in knowing what that means.
As long as there are guys like me out there, there shouldn't be a problem. I'm 26 and prefer dating women between 30-40 or more. I connect with them more. Plus, beauty is beauty regardless of age. Also, I've noticed so many girls my age are so stuck up, or play hard to get. I don't have time for that shit. A more mature woman and we chit chat it up and click right away. No bull in between.
Valkyr1983
Banned
Education =/= intelligence. Like, at all. That's incredibly narrow minded
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