Remember the episodes that would air with those tidbits that would pop up with useful stuff? I remember one of them saying he was a result of secret experimentation.
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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING
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Remember the episodes that would air with those tidbits that would pop up with useful stuff? I remember one of them saying he was a result of secret experimentation.
I am afraid, I am not american, I don't really know what you mean.
Chances are their parents were in the 100 year war and Avatar didn't save them--as in he was the Avatar and couldn't because he was too busy--and the White Lotus didn't care.
Nick aired the entire series with popup comments from the creators of the show. It would talk about characters backstory, how they animated a particular scene (saying that the dance season in season 3 where aang teaches fire nation kids to dance was one of the hardest scenes o animate) and just general useful information.
During the last battle of combustion man I could swear that one of those tidbits say he was a result of a secret fire nation experiment.
Wiki has just this:
Maybe you forgot the rumor part with the times.
Septimus Prime
Member
It's weird, too, that we know that combustion bending doesn't seem to be doable when the user is locked in an ice prison.
Ha ha nope everything is going to wrapped up with a messy bow and then book 4 is going to ignore the event of book 3.
Reaaally hoping that I am wrong.
Ah yes, it was an injury. At least thats how the rumor goes. I knew it was something about an experiment.
Book 3 didn't ignore book 2. I see no reason why 4 would ignore 3, especially since they finally seem to get the series to work under such a constraint.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Book 3 kind of ignored book 2 though. Besides air benders and fluffy animals floating around we've seen little effect of the spirit world in this one outside of the first episode. Like why aren't there gigantic spirit dogs murdering the innocent?
Seems to me like they just used the spirit shit as a catalyst for airbenders coming back which brings down how big it was supposed to be for the world.
Seems to me like they just used the spirit shit as a catalyst for airbenders coming back which brings down how big it was supposed to be for the world.
They already had the green light for Book 4 before starting/in the early phase of working on Book 3 (sorry, my memory is a bit hazy on this stuff). Meaning they could actually plan an overarching arch, not like Season 2 which completely caught them off-balance.
Iroh Jr. is love. <3
Too bad he's been giving like no screen time but he's voiced by Dante Basco so that's a point in his favor.
Infinite Justice
Member
Admiral Woofington
Member
But why go for a guy who looks like a stable human being with maturity when you can go for douchey Aladdin who shoots fire.
Icyflamez96
Member
Nooo the first time someone who I recognized decently well got banned 
Yes, Book 3 and 4 were both green lit at the same time, right after Book 1 ended but before Book 2 premiered, so there is a good possibility that 3 and 4 are linked in a much better way than 1 and 2 were. Or 2 and 3.
no i do not, and I would love to watch the series again with them @_@
but alas I can't find any place to see these episodes. It's a shame they weren't included on the dvds.
So guys, I have a question that's been kind of eating at me for a while now:
How does Korra work as a female protagonist for you guys?
Note that I am not asking if you like her as a character or even if you think that she is a good character. That's not what this is about.
I'm more thinking along the lines of 1. Representation and 2. power fantasy.
For the first thing, it's no secret that female characters, too often, get the complete shaft in media. This goes double in male dominated genres like action. So, Korra is a very unique case of having it happen, especially in a cartoon. I can't think of too many other action cartoons, movies, and shows that star a female not just as a main character, but as THE main character.
So does Korra, simply by virtue of being female and an action badass, work as a character in the minds of children, both boys and girls?
I ask this because I'm wondering how Korra works as a power fantasy. There is an element of power fantasy to most works in general, imo, and it's commonly assumed that power fantasy doesn't happen when the viewer is male and the character female. I find that it's a real problem because it is one of the big things preventing females from getting properly represented in the first place. A Wonder Woman movie can't be made because studio execs can't comprehend how can guys possibly take a female superhero seriously, however badass she is? We have a quote from Brian that said something along the lines of "The boys didn't care that Korra was a girl, they just cared about that she was awesome.", but I'm curious as to how widespread that belief actually is. Now, I obviously disagree that Korra is awesome because of writing issues, but is the fact that Korra simply exists, is female and also 'badass' in the sense that she has a lot of power and fights bad guys, or is in other words a representation for badass females, a good thing by itself?
How does Korra work as a female protagonist for you guys?
Note that I am not asking if you like her as a character or even if you think that she is a good character. That's not what this is about.
I'm more thinking along the lines of 1. Representation and 2. power fantasy.
For the first thing, it's no secret that female characters, too often, get the complete shaft in media. This goes double in male dominated genres like action. So, Korra is a very unique case of having it happen, especially in a cartoon. I can't think of too many other action cartoons, movies, and shows that star a female not just as a main character, but as THE main character.
So does Korra, simply by virtue of being female and an action badass, work as a character in the minds of children, both boys and girls?
I ask this because I'm wondering how Korra works as a power fantasy. There is an element of power fantasy to most works in general, imo, and it's commonly assumed that power fantasy doesn't happen when the viewer is male and the character female. I find that it's a real problem because it is one of the big things preventing females from getting properly represented in the first place. A Wonder Woman movie can't be made because studio execs can't comprehend how can guys possibly take a female superhero seriously, however badass she is? We have a quote from Brian that said something along the lines of "The boys didn't care that Korra was a girl, they just cared about that she was awesome.", but I'm curious as to how widespread that belief actually is. Now, I obviously disagree that Korra is awesome because of writing issues, but is the fact that Korra simply exists, is female and also 'badass' in the sense that she has a lot of power and fights bad guys, or is in other words a representation for badass females, a good thing by itself?
I'll have to think about that and come back with a serious reply. But I generally think Korra is a poorly written character. In terms of gender representation, I'm not sure. I've always had trouble with this. For instance, people use to assume that a female that kicks ass and is an action hero equates to equal representation. But then it will get heavy criticism because the female character is basically the male archetype character just a female swapped in.
I think the "Avatar" archetype allows for either gender to fill the role. And in that sense I think it does a good job allowing either gender to be that role. But I can't say the show has entirely dealt with issues from a gender specific perspective either. I would say for the most part, Korra isn't entirely gender specific, if that makes sense?
Maybe I'm completely wrong though. I will say, I don't like how the show has females enacting violence against men as a joke. For example, Korra constantly flying off the handle emotionally on her partner, going from one end of the spectrum and being verbally abusive...and then her using violence at his work place. Or Bolin being abused by Eska. I don't think that sort of thing should be played up for laughs, and it bugs me that it's okay when the gender is swapped.
But I would submit that the Avatar isn't really gender specific. And so I wonder if that is a good thing or a bad thing in terms of gender representation.
Right, I totally forgot how the relationship abuse aspects of the show were handled. I mean, on one hand, they did eventually treat them as the bad things as they are, but on the other hand, they used them as jokes inbetween that time.
The avatar job isn't gender specific, but at the same time, was Aang's journey as the avatar gender specific? I'm trying to imagine how the events would be different in TLA if he was a girl, but I think the romance stuff would be the only thing different for the most part and not much else. I feel the same with Korra. If she were a guy, the main thing affected would be the romance aspects.
The main point of contention here is the question of whether Korra being a girl and a badass does good, by itself, regardless of the writing, in terms of breaking cultural stereotypes. I think it does, but then the writing really gets in the way of that. But the problem is that we just don't have a lot of female action heroes to draw on in the first place, which is the whole problem of the issue and why Korra just being female may be a positive.
I don't know. I wish there was some solid way to quantify how representation of a minority affects culture as a whole.
Dominican Power
Member
Do you need Hulu+ to watch the Korra episodes?
Korra Book 3 will be available on Nick.com (and it's app version), Amazon Instant, Google Play and Hulu Plus. On Hulu, recent episodes will probably be free, like other tv shows, but Bryan Konietzko adds:
And you will need Hulu Plus to watch all episodes, not just the most recent one. The best way to watch Korra is still through Nick.com, or buying them for $1.99 on the other options.
When I'm writing a character, I rarely look at the gender for who they are unless it's very specific, I don't care what a character's gender is as long as they are written well.
Korra would be annoying if she was male due to her attitude and overall boring character.
I think the main problem is that the writers are afraid to make her grow or become overall more humble in fear that it would make her look weak because she was a female.
Sorry to bring up a random anime, but Yu Yu hakusho's Yusuke would have been an awful character, but the show constantly showed that with or without power he was willing to help people. Being the Sprit detective was just part of the job, and who would no doubt be willing to help anyway even if he didn't have the title. This was all in the first season, and by the end Yusuke seemed like a really awesome person without losing his edge.
Korra in season 1-2 seemed like her only redeeming point was the fact that she was the Avatar. I didn't respect her as a person because the show didn't give me anything to respect. She broke down when she lost her super awesome power.
Really over all, I think Korra emotionally is one of the weakest characters in the series, and I wouldn't want to look up to her regardless if she was a male or female, I think what's makes this worst is that a lot of male characters tend to be called out for the stuff they do, but Korra rarely has that happen to her.
Korra would be annoying if she was male due to her attitude and overall boring character.
I think the main problem is that the writers are afraid to make her grow or become overall more humble in fear that it would make her look weak because she was a female.
Sorry to bring up a random anime, but Yu Yu hakusho's Yusuke would have been an awful character, but the show constantly showed that with or without power he was willing to help people. Being the Sprit detective was just part of the job, and who would no doubt be willing to help anyway even if he didn't have the title. This was all in the first season, and by the end Yusuke seemed like a really awesome person without losing his edge.
Korra in season 1-2 seemed like her only redeeming point was the fact that she was the Avatar. I didn't respect her as a person because the show didn't give me anything to respect. She broke down when she lost her super awesome power.
Really over all, I think Korra emotionally is one of the weakest characters in the series, and I wouldn't want to look up to her regardless if she was a male or female, I think what's makes this worst is that a lot of male characters tend to be called out for the stuff they do, but Korra rarely has that happen to her.
DangerMouse
Member
Yeah, there are so many good tracks already in Korra it's really hard to choose.
As a teacher, we often examine gender roles and stereotypes in terms of motivating our students. I teach at the high school level, by the way, just for reference.
What's interesting is that Aang and Korra are almost anti-stereotypes. Korra is focused on the physical. She physically intimidates a judge. She has trouble with the spiritual aspect of being the avatar, and in this case spirituality is analog to the emotional aspect of the psyche. Korra wants to fight you. She talks with her fists.
Aang, though, prefers communication to physical conflict, and connects with his spirituality (emotions) much more easily. Consider "The Great Divide". Could you imagine how Korra would have handled the conflict between the two tribes? She would have probably trapped the two chiefs in some sort of prison and forced them into a resolution.
"If you two don't come out of that cave with some sort of peace and stop your arguing, you'll have to deal with me!"
So, as a female protagonist, she works because she's not typically female. Her gender, other than the romantic subplots, isn't thrown in the audience's face. Really, this is true of quite a few of the main characters in the series. Gender is part of who they are, but not all of who they are.
What's interesting is that Aang and Korra are almost anti-stereotypes. Korra is focused on the physical. She physically intimidates a judge. She has trouble with the spiritual aspect of being the avatar, and in this case spirituality is analog to the emotional aspect of the psyche. Korra wants to fight you. She talks with her fists.
Aang, though, prefers communication to physical conflict, and connects with his spirituality (emotions) much more easily. Consider "The Great Divide". Could you imagine how Korra would have handled the conflict between the two tribes? She would have probably trapped the two chiefs in some sort of prison and forced them into a resolution.
"If you two don't come out of that cave with some sort of peace and stop your arguing, you'll have to deal with me!"
So, as a female protagonist, she works because she's not typically female. Her gender, other than the romantic subplots, isn't thrown in the audience's face. Really, this is true of quite a few of the main characters in the series. Gender is part of who they are, but not all of who they are.
I like this analysis.
The creators tried too hard to make Korra the opposite of Aang, I suppose.
And_Gignac
Member
I don't get the hate for Korra. I personally like her character way more than Aang's with his annoying holier-than-thou attitude.
I took some feminist courses while studying film in college, and there is a lot of criticism of Female characters that don't represent females w/ gender related issues. So I would think, some would argue Korra is just a copy paste into the typical male/hero archetype.
I don't really think that is true though, given that the "Avatar" feels like a gender-less role. But I always have trouble when having discussions about gender representation in media because of this. But they would argue that the writers are being lazy, and made Korra physically strong and aggressive, because that makes her equal footing with a male character. But then the criticism would be that she is just basically adopting male characteristics. But then why can't females be just as strong as males...
*head explodes*
Anyways, I can't really say for sure if Korra is a good representation of a female character. But I would argue, the Avatar universe is great, because I think a lot of the roles aren't really gender specific. I personally have no issue with that.
Aang was just a kid, with a lot of responsibilities thrown on his shoulders. On top of that, a lot of things he believed to be right (what you say is holier than thou), was the teachings his people gave him. And because they were completely wiped off the face of the earth, he felt a responsibility to keep those things alive.
I would say overall, Aang was a much kinder person than Korra. Korra is just a mean person (at least parts of Book 1 and most of Book 2). Not only does she treat people poorly, she's pretty hot headed, and often doesn't listen to anyone. I mean, it's totally cool if you like her more than Aang. But she generally doesn't have personality traits, that most would find likable. Aang was by no means perfect, and could be a jerk too. But I would say Korra is by far more of an asshole than Aang ever was (and Aang being an asshole could be explained away by his age, something Korra really has no excuse for).
As far as her...technically being written. I still think she's poorly written (in terms of character arcs, and how they jumped back and forth to extremes with her, constantly taking 5 steps back).
PfantzyPantz
Member
Why I dislike Korra comes from all the lost potential with her character. I loved that she was the opposite of Aang, because that could have led to so many interesting developments and interactions.
But they don't do anything with it except 'oh she can't learn air bending because she's too hot headed. And she doesn't listen to people'. She still relied too heavily on her friends, and has to be saved more often than not. (usually for reasons that make no sense)
Korra should have been an instigator; I was enjoying her interactions with the Triads and the police in the beginning for example. But then she just goes for the ride and does nothing except romance plots. And then wins everything because she's the main character.
(I get that it's because they thought they only had 1 season to work with, but apparently season 2 isn't much better)
She didn't have a character beyond being 'not Aang'.
And I hate Asami because she is 'lost potential' x infinity, plus being a prissy perfect little girl. I was desperately hoping she would pull some double agent thing, but nope, she is just that. But she took self defense classes guise
Mako is just an annoying nothing that just wastes time with forced romance and love triangles.
Bolin is the best character in the series, and I don't even like him that much.
Admittedly I've only seen season 1, might force myself through season 2 because apparently season 3 handles it all better.
But whenever I think about getting into season 2, I remember all the people complaining about the love triangle, and then Asami pops up, and just ugh.
But they don't do anything with it except 'oh she can't learn air bending because she's too hot headed. And she doesn't listen to people'. She still relied too heavily on her friends, and has to be saved more often than not. (usually for reasons that make no sense)
Korra should have been an instigator; I was enjoying her interactions with the Triads and the police in the beginning for example. But then she just goes for the ride and does nothing except romance plots. And then wins everything because she's the main character.
(I get that it's because they thought they only had 1 season to work with, but apparently season 2 isn't much better)
She didn't have a character beyond being 'not Aang'.
And I hate Asami because she is 'lost potential' x infinity, plus being a prissy perfect little girl. I was desperately hoping she would pull some double agent thing, but nope, she is just that. But she took self defense classes guise
Mako is just an annoying nothing that just wastes time with forced romance and love triangles.
Bolin is the best character in the series, and I don't even like him that much.
Admittedly I've only seen season 1, might force myself through season 2 because apparently season 3 handles it all better.
But whenever I think about getting into season 2, I remember all the people complaining about the love triangle, and then Asami pops up, and just ugh.
Nah, if Asami was a double agent then it would have gave us the expression that (If someone is really nice and almost perfect, then they must be hiding something!) Which isn't true in real life. Sometimes people really are that close to what we call perfection, and us as story tellers usually try to give everyone a major flaw. When some people don't have them in real life,
Now a main character should have a flaw or something to work towards improving, and I think Asami's main problem is that she actually has too much screen time doing nothing.
the fuck are you
the fuck is this
what kind of bold faced lie
not you admitting you didnt even watch past episode 4
i cannotttttt
Asami is worse than prissy. She lacks self confidence and self-esteem, and is willing to be a booty call for a man that cheated on her and discarded her like trash.
This alone makes these writers unforgivable.
RPG_Fanatic
Member
My favourite part had to be seeing the humble beginnings of
Cabbage Corp. With the Cabbage merchant running a cabbage themed restaurant.
Yeah fair point. Well, I don't know if she's had the shittiest life possible... she lost her mom in a horrific way, which then made her lose her father (who basically became dead inside). And then her fathers betrayal tarnished her entire family's name, and legacy making her an outcast.
She's a had a pretty rough life. I would not call her prissy. Even when she first met Mako, there was nothing to indicate she was prissy (I mean, is going to a fancy restaurant an indication of prissy?) I don't think so.
Astral Dog
Member
I liked that they made a female Avatar the main charácter, that of course separates her from Aang and is a big risk in general to have an action cartoon protagonist be a girl, but of course, her charácter has several issues and can be annoying also, my sister dislikes Korra because she is very much like a boy, and too masculine. i guess Korra was written like a boy anyways, what do you think?
Well, that's the thing. If they make a female character that is "aggressive" and "muscular", then they are seen as being masculine and being a male archetype. However, my issue with that is...why can't a female be those things? There is nothing stopping a female from gaining muscle, and having an aggressive personality. And given she's the Avatar who does a lot of physical training, I don't really see why that's an issue.
But those that would criticize this, would say that she should then have gender specific qualities or problems that are specific to the gender. Failure to have that incorporated in the character or the story, means she's not really representing a gender. And is instead just a character, that happens to be female.
I'm not arguing that. It's just an argument I've seen from academic/feminist areas. Which is why I'm having trouble tackling his question, as I myself don't really know what is good female representation (although I have an idea of what is bad). I admit I'm ignorant when it comes to that. That's why whenever we have these kind of debates, I'm always willing to listen to what others have a say on the matter. Specifically, I would like to hear what females think on the subject (as me being male does kind of make it difficult, I totally admit that).
Not sure if we have any female posters in this thread, but if we do (don't want to single you out or anything), but would be curious how you feel about Korra (in terms of representing female characters).
Same. Aang was one of my least favorites among the major players in TLA.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Aang had plenty of reasons for his 'holier than thou' attitude, and many times he broke character to show his fears and anger. Korra on the other hand is just CRAAAAAAAAAAAWLING IIIIIIIIIIIIIIN MY SKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIN
What's wrong with a character that just happens to be female?
Why is that so wrong? Why is gender so important that if X character doesn't act in a certain way then they aren't good, it's really silly to me.
We have male characters that are skinny to muscular, and everything in between, but we rarely see them as male characters and just as characters. Females will always be looked as females which means certain situations don't come up.
Why can't a girl be prissy and worry if she breaks a nail? As long as she contributes to the team and does things like fight, she can act like she is allowed to act. Same thing with a tomboy.
Trying to push females away from arctypes ultimately is putting them into it, it's sad that people have to think before they write a female character when people just write male characters. It's also sadly part of the reason why action and shows as a whole are more male dominate, it's just easier not to bother and have a whole group of guys than adding a female because she's always going to be judged in one way or form.
PfantzyPantz
Member
I don't know if I watched a different series from you guys, but all Asami did was be a little waifu for Mako. "Ohoho Im glad I hit you with my moped". Unless I'm missing something, she is the textbook definition of prissy, that was the whole point of Korra even bringing it up. The writers thought it was a clever joke, but it isn't funny, just like Bolin bringing up how angsty Mako is all the time.
I don't know how stupid a character would have to be to not notice her father be the most important part of Amon's uprising; the entire foundation. All those mechs, and overtly sinister phonecalls. Nah, Asami had a hard life, she fine.
You can have the hots for her, just don't pretend she is anything but a pretty face and one trick trope.
And if you ship Korra with Asami, yeah, great fantastic.
TacticalFox88
Banned
What the fuck?
A character who has no flaws/little flaws does NOT make them a mary sue or anything of the sort. I wish that misconception would die in a furnace.
It's all about portrayal. She's literally the poster girl for how a character can be a mary sue on paper but in execution be the total opposite.
A character who has no flaws/little flaws does NOT make them a mary sue or anything of the sort. I wish that misconception would die in a furnace.
It's all about portrayal. She's literally the poster girl for how a character can be a mary sue on paper but in execution be the total opposite.
This is a great analysis. I knew about both of these characters individually but never linked them to being parallels to both each other and their genders.
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