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Logitech responds about PS4 wheel support - Sony demands advanced security

S

serversurfer

Member
It seems like there's still a lot of confusion about who's really to blame here. I recommend reading this excellent thread on the subject, as it cuts through a lot of the PR-speak and seems to get to the heart of the matter.

mrklaw said:
this is a good point. Immersion had Sony's balls in a vice with PS3 so got a great deal. But there isn't anything out there with a risk of recall etc, so it can be a normal licensing negotiation. And Immersion may be more realistic considering Neither Sony or Logitech seem that bothered in supporting legacy devices on PS4, so some money will be better than none?
Click to expand...
It's a nice thought, but I imagine if Immersion were willing to be reasonable about it, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Logitech currently have a full line of wheels they build and sell to PC users. Being able to sell the exact, same hardware to millions of PS4 users is effectively free money for them. AFAICT, the only rational reason for Logitech to leave free money on the table is if Immersion are standing in the way, doing their best to ensure said money is anything but free.

So for Logitech, their choices are to pay Immersion's ransom and get in to the PS4 market at launch, or "get out of the console business" and continue selling their hardware to PC users, and then next year when Immersion is out of the picture, they can "Reexamine their position in the console market, given the tremendous success of the PS4 and the excitement over the upcoming GT7, made even better by the Driving Force GT™."

So yeah, Logitech miss out on the first two years of the generation, but those years are tiny anyway, and this way they dodge giving Immersion any more than they absolutely must.

I dunno if I mentioned it, but the Immersion agreement is also why Sony can't release DS4 drivers for Windows/Mac/Linux; Sony are explicitly prohibited from making controllers which work on anything other than a PlayStation.
 
A

AngerdX

Member
For me it´s simple, out of principle i won´t be buying any racing game on my PS4 aslong as i can´t use my G25, not going to buy a new one aslong as this one works perfectly.

Highly dissapointed on this situation. :/
 
S

serversurfer

Member
AngerdX said:
For me it´s simple, out of principle i won´t be buying any racing game on my PS4 aslong as i can´t use my G25, not going to buy a new one aslong as this one works perfectly./
Click to expand...
Yeah, I see no reason to replace my DFGT until it wears out, which will be a while at this rate. :p
 
M

mrklaw

MrArseFace
serversurfer said:
It seems like there's still a lot of confusion about who's really to blame here. I recommend reading this excellent thread on the subject, as it cuts through a lot of the PR-speak and seems to get to the heart of the matter.


It's a nice thought, but I imagine if Immersion were willing to be reasonable about it, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

Logitech currently have a full line of wheels they build and sell to PC users. Being able to sell the exact, same hardware to millions of PS4 users is effectively free money for them. AFAICT, the only rational reason for Logitech to leave free money on the table is if Immersion are standing in the way, doing their best to ensure said money is anything but free.

So for Logitech, their choices are to pay Immersion's ransom and get in to the PS4 market at launch, or "get out of the console business" and continue selling their hardware to PC users, and then next year when Immersion is out of the picture, they can "Reexamine their position in the console market, given the tremendous success of the PS4 and the excitement over the upcoming GT7, made even better by the Driving Force GT™."

So yeah, Logitech miss out on the first two years of the generation, but those years are tiny anyway, and this way they dodge giving Immersion any more than they absolutely must.

I dunno if I mentioned it, but the Immersion agreement is also why Sony can't release DS4 drivers for Windows/Mac/Linux; Sony are explicitly prohibited from making controllers which work on anything other than a PlayStation.
Click to expand...

Why don't logitech need to pay immersion for the PC sales? If it is using a different standard/method for the FFB, why can't Ps4 use that?
 
S

serversurfer

Member
Logitech already have a license for "PC." They don't need to renegotiate it every time a new computer comes out, but the judge ruled Immersion can force new negotiations every time a new "PlayStation" comes out.

Basically, "PC" is considered a single, ever-changing platform, but every console is a unique snowflake.
 
P

paskowitz

Member
This is gold.

proxy.php


Edit... hmmm something in the internet broke.
 
jts

jts

...hate me...
Still on the USB passthrough thing, I guess that a somewhat illicit USB passthrough, not with the chip, but one that just masks the G27 (and others) as a whitelisted PS3 wheel would be theoretically possible no?

Unless the drivers for each wheel are very custom in a way that would mean that those masked wheels would not work at all.

Just my uneducated hypothesis, sorry if ignorant.
 
S

serversurfer

Member
paskowitz said:
As far as I'm concerned Sony (policies) is the only thing preventing from working one the PS4.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Fanatec seemed to be implying some sort of exclusivity deal was locking them out, but if Thrustmaster had really paid for exclusivity, you'd think Thrustmaster, Sony, or Logitech would've mentioned it by now. Instead, Logitech blamed a seemingly non-existent security chip.

Plus, Fanatec's own FAQ says the reason they're not sure if their PS3 wheels will ever be compatible with the PS4 is because they don't know if a game using FFB will ever come out for PS4. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, nor does it mesh with their implication Sony are actively locking them out.

Are Fanatec not subject to the Immersion patents? Maybe they're just stalling until the PS4 market is a little more juicy. /shrug
 
M

MutFox

Banned
Not buying a PS4 until my G27 works.
Only reason I'd get a PS4 is for GT7 anyways.

My G27 still works on my PC anyways.
More money I get to keep in my wallet.
 
D

drugstore_cowboy

Member
I'd take a guess and say easily €1200+.

If Fanatec could release a direct drive X1/PS4/PC wheel at or under €1k I'd be tempted, forget anything above that though.

Actually, I half hope they can't but I really want to try one.
 
L

le-seb

Member
Afrikan said:
excuse my ignorance...but um.. "direct drive wheel"...what is that? (tried to Google)
Click to expand...
Direct drive mechanism. Means the wheel is directly connected to the motor axis, and not through a belt or gears. Provides better (stronger) force feedback, produces less noise and should last longer.
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Announcement tomorrow is imminent and the cats pretty much out of the bag. Thomas hints that the price will be shockingly low for the kind of wheel they're releasing.

Stay tuned.
 
S

Shaneus

Member
isamu said:
Announcement tomorrow is imminent and the cats pretty much out of the bag. Thomas hints that the price will be shockingly low for the kind of wheel they're releasing.

Stay tuned.
Click to expand...
Announcement tomorrow... from Logitech? Or Fanatec? I know the discussion was Fanatec but this is a Logitech thread, hence the confusion on my part.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Gold Member
I wanted a wheel for Driveclub but the T300 is too expensive for me (I live in Brazil). The T80 doesn't have FF and it looks really tiny... :(
 
I

isamu

OMFG HOLY MOTHER OF MARY IN HEAVEN I CANT BELIEVE IT WTF WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES AAAAHHH
Shaneus said:
Announcement tomorrow... from Logitech? Or Fanatec? I know the discussion was Fanatec but this is a Logitech thread, hence the confusion on my part.
Click to expand...

Sorry I forgot to clarify. It's from Fanatec
 
J

Jilt

Member
Off topic, but previously mentioned...

69dbcfc69547d7e81719d9f15548f4.png


Okay, so the Club Sport Wheel Base V2 it is.....
The smoothness, vividness and precision of a Direct Drive wheel combined with a torque increase of about 75% and (optional) compatibility to the latest gaming
consoles. And all that with a moderate price increase.

And that with this should be nice...

10492520_678682085541124_5578342419484864876_n.png
 
P

paskowitz

Member
One positive out of this Fanatec announcement is that we have a slightly clearer picture of what it would take to release a Logitech wheel for the PS4. After the Immersion patent expires Logitech could make a G29 as a re bodied G27 with PS4 buttons (and security chip, if that is required). This would likely not be a huge investment for them as long as SCE does not charge a large licensing fee for using their brand symbols.
 
Q

Quadraphonic

Member
A Logitech product abandoned?
That's not new at all.

When Logitech released the Logitech Revue, a Google TV product, there were a lot of issues. It needed some firmware updates. Badly. It's still broken to this day.

Logitech said that it was Google's responsibility even though it was all up to Logitech to actually fucking write the code.
 
G

GoaThief

Member
600 Euros for non-fanatec owners/non preorder price? Uh, no.

The wheel situation on current generation consoles is dire. What happened to fair quality at a decent price like the DFGT and it's ilk?
 
S

serversurfer

Member
paskowitz said:
One positive out of this Fanatec announcement is that we have a slightly clearer picture of what it would take to release a Logitech wheel for the PS4. After the Immersion patent expires Logitech could make a G29 as a re bodied G27 with PS4 buttons (and security chip, if that is required). This would likely not be a huge investment for them as long as SCE does not charge a large licensing fee for using their brand symbols.
Click to expand...
Like, the trackpad, you mean? I'm not sure what else is unique to the PS4. Start/Select can be remapped to Options/Share easily enough. That's not to say they may not come out with new wheels, be they G29s or DFGT2s. I just wonder specifically about the trackpad, if that's what you meant.

But yeah, any possible exclusivity deals now seem to be out of the way at least, so now we're just waiting on the Immersion patent, it would seem. Once that's out of the way, Logitech should be free to add support to the existing wheels — which they still sell to PS3 and PC users — whether they introduce additional models or not.
 
S

Saroyan

Member
So that $600 price from Fanatec, it wasn't clear to me if that was the price for just the wheel and base unit or if it was a complete set with pedals/shifter.

If its a complete set I might buy it since I have PS4/XOne and a gaming PC. Otherwise it seems a little too expensive, especially if you also have to buy another steering wheel or whatever for compatibility with each console. I'm not sure how they are doing that.
 
M

Megasoum

Banned
Saroyan said:
So that $600 price from Fanatec, it wasn't clear to me if that was the price for just the wheel and base unit or if it was a complete set with pedals/shifter.

If its a complete set I might buy it since I have PS4/XOne and a gaming PC. Otherwise it seems a little too expensive, especially if you also have to buy another steering wheel or whatever for compatibility with each console. I'm not sure how they are doing that.
Click to expand...

AFAIK it's only the BASE... You still have to buy a rim (one for each consoles too if you want console support).
 
R

RexNovis

Banned
Quadraphonic said:
A Logitech product abandoned?
That's not new at all.

When Logitech released the Logitech Revue, a Google TV product, there were a lot of issues. It needed some firmware updates. Badly. It's still broken to this day.

Logitech said that it was Google's responsibility even though it was all up to Logitech to actually fucking write the code.
Click to expand...

Yea I purchased one of the Revue systems through my cable provider and the way the support was dropped for it was just ridiculous. 3 months after release they stopped patching it despite the presence of bugs that crashed the system while using it to perform the very task it was created to do, browse the internet. I gave it to my parents when I left the country and its not even compatible with their new settop/tv combo. The whole experience taught me a valuable lesson: I'll never buy another Logitech peripheral. They wont get my business again.
 
M

M76

Banned
serversurfer said:
lol Cute, though this isn't Sony's fault at all.

Not that this fact makes any difference to the masses anyway. :p
Click to expand...

Who the hell else is at fault then? I definitely blame Sony, they made this choice knowing full well that most wheels out there are made by logitech, and this will render them useless.

And this is a deal breaker for me. So it seems I won't be buying a PS4 after all, fix it or GTFO.

I refuse to replace my expensive wheel at the leisure of sony. It works perfectly on PC or on PS3, if it doesn't work with the PS4 then the PS4 is at fault, that's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned.
 
B

BeamImpact

Member
dunno if answered before but its a chip that allows a connected device to run in true usb mode with the PS4
the PS4 is asking for verification about once every 8 seconds, and the chip is granting a continuous connection
(security measurement)

for those wondering about the DS4, when using your DS4 from the PS4 via wired connection it still runs in wireless mode, its similar to the Xbox360 Charge Kit and its wireless controller, all the cable does is charing the battery pack of the controller

so far there is only one controller on the market that is running in true usb mode, its a Hori Gamepad
and honestly its a real mess, Sony hasnt yet integrated any touchpad functionality and audio functionality to the true usb mode, that means when using said Hori Gamepad you dont get any audio from the controller and also the touchpad swipes arent useable anymore
theres a trick to run the DS4 in true usb mode and it behaves the very same as the Hori Gamepad

i really hope Sony is going to patch that at some point, the competitive scene is all about the lowest response time, and wired over bluetooth would be a big improvement in that regard
 
B

BradleyLove

Member
M76 said:
Who the hell else is at fault then? I definitely blame Sony, they made this choice knowing full well that most wheels out there are made by logitech, and this will render them useless.

And this is a deal breaker for me. So it seems I won't be buying a PS4 after all, fix it or GTFO.

I refuse to replace my expensive wheel at the leisure of sony. It works perfectly on PC or on PS3, if it doesn't work with the PS4 then the PS4 is at fault, that's the end of the story as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

So, despite the fact it's Logitech who won't pay the Immersion licensing fee, it's Sony's fault?

JenniferLawrenceOK.gif
 
F

firehawk12

Subete no aware
BradleyLove said:
So, despite the fact it's Logitech who won't pay the Immersion licensing fee, it's Sony's fault?

JenniferLawrenceOK.gif
Click to expand...
Mad Catz has also "blamed" Sony for the reason why all PS3 sticks are basically obsolete paperweights.

It seems if you invested in any gear last gen, you're getting fucked regardless of the manufacturer.
 
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