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Logitech responds about PS4 wheel support - Sony demands advanced security

So have the devs of DRIVECLUB and Project Cars explained why they aren't supporting the Logitech wheels minus the force feedback?

This is possible as War Thunder proves, so why don't these PS4 racers support the wheels? Are they too lazy or Sony is blocking them due to their exclusive deal with Thrustmaster?

I much rather have support with no FFB than no support at all.

Somebody tweet Evolution and SMS, Project Cars forum, etc.
 

Jilt

Member
So have the devs of DRIVECLUB and Project Cars explained why they aren't supporting the Logitech wheels minus the force feedback?

This is possible as War Thunder proves, so why don't these PS4 racers support the wheels? Are they too lazy or Sony is blocking them due to their exclusive deal with Thrustmaster?

I much rather have support with no FFB than no support at all.

Somebody tweet Evolution and SMS, Project Cars forum, etc.

My thoughts exactly! Tweeting, messaging and otherwise stalking, done that, been there! And trust me, i am not alone...

The opinion in this thread is that it all comes down on the immersion patent.
I still think there is going to be support in game, but not in XMB.
War Thunder proves that, aswell as the support of the T500RS, in PCARS, which has no security chip, or one of the T80 or T100 wheels, which fall under immersion.

But, what ever, for me is clear, If no support on legacy wheels, for me no playstation.

If I would want an other wheel, I would not even think of buying a Thrustmaster. Way to expensive for the goods you get.
 

Nerix

Member
Perhaps we could start a twitter campaign to let the people at the right places know about the problem (similar approach as the NoDRM campaign, obviously not as widespreaded). If you think thats a good idea a new thread would be helpful!

Tweet suggestion:
Code:
#PS4WheelSupport Dear @Playstation @Logitech pls make backward compatibility possible https://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4 @ToddW_Logitech @yosp @Rushy33
Contacts (NoDRM list plus some more; if you have anyone else in mind, pls add them):
Paul Rustchynsky (Drive Club Game Director) @Rushy33
Todd Walker (Logitech, Senior Manager Product Marketing (currently Logitech Harmony remotes, previously Logitech G gaming)) @ToddW_Logitech
Shuhei Yoshida (president of worldwide studios) @yosp (easily the highest level person on twitter and quite accessible)
John Koller (head of hardware marketing) @jpkoller (dude has like 150 followers - heh)
Guy Longworth (senior vice president PlayStation Brand Marketing) @luckylongworth
Scott Rohde (PlayStation Software Product Development Head for Sony Worldwide Studios America) @rohdescott
Adam Boyes (Publisher and developer relations at Sony) @amboyes
Shahid Kamal Ahmad (third party relations, europe) @shahidkamal
Nick Accordino (SCEA ISD A. Producer) @nikoro
Phil Rosenberg (SCEA - reports directly to Tretton, thanks GoFreak) @philrosenberg
 

Nerix

Member
@Nerix, nice, done. Changing contact every day till november?!
That´s a good idea, but I think the most important persons are already mentioned in the tweet.

Someone else at Logitech would be good, but that was the only person I found and that could match for our purpose.

And a new thread would be good, otherwise there won´t be enough tweets to make an impact. Is there a way to get the attention of a mod, so that he can open a thread?
 
That´s a good idea, but I think the most important persons are already mentioned in the tweet.

Someone else at Logitech would be good, but that was the only person I found and that could match for our purpose.

And a new thread would be good, otherwise there won´t be enough tweets to make an impact. Is there a way to get the attention of a mod, so that he can open a thread?

Why does a mod need to open the thread? Regular members can do that just fine. I see plenty posting in here, albeit over the past few months.
 

WoolyNinja

Member
I used to think racing games were better with a wheel, but lately I've been lazy and just been using a controller on GT6 and I've found I get just as much enjoyment out of it. It still feels great and I'm still able to keep improving my skills to cut down my times. Is it quite as fun as with a wheel, no, but its less of an issue than I thought it would be. And this is with a sim racer.

The next game out, Driveclub, is an arcade racer, I think it will feel just fine with a controller in hand.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
if the game is tuned for a controller, it can work really well.

I'm suprised nobody has come up with a smaller option - like a modern day negcon. Something as small as a controller but with more finesse on the steering input than an analogue stick.

I bet you could even make something really simple like a circular cookie cutter to put over the left stick, allowing you to roll the stick around rather than tilting left/right to give you more control.
 

androvsky

Member
Wait - serious? What the fuck? So why can't we use it in Driveclub?
I kept asking people to try it, and finally a junior member did.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=125821466#post125821466
I've just tried this using a Logitech Driving Force Pro -

the setup wizard recognises all inputs apart from the dpad on the left side of the wheel.

I was able to fly around quite happily using the wheel to control ailerons, the pedals as rudders and the gear shifter as a throttle.



I also tried it with a PS3 madcatz TE arcade stick, and the joystick and buttons are all recognised. At first glance it would seem that if War Thunder can work with arcade sticks then something like Injustice should be able to do it too.

(both also worked for longer than the 8-minute time-out mentioned previously in the thread)


I'm going to look out my old Rock Band instruments and see if the setup wizard can detect them also
Don't know if he ever got around to trying the Rock Band instruments.
edit: And yes, he tested the wheel for a lot longer than 8 minutes.


The situation is basically what's summarized here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124896335&postcount=107

Short version: Devs use Sony libraries, get only official Sony licensed controller input. But they can support USB HID themselves. On PS3 it would appear the Sony libraries recognized USB HID devices, so devs didn't have to do anything extra. This is basically what the whole Skullgirls fighting stick thing is about.
 
I kept asking people to try it, and finally a junior member did.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=125821466#post125821466

Don't know if he ever got around to trying the Rock Band instruments.
edit: And yes, he tested the wheel for a lot longer than 8 minutes.


The situation is basically what's summarized here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124896335&postcount=107

Short version: Devs use Sony libraries, get only official Sony licensed controller input. But they can support USB HID themselves. On PS3 it would appear the Sony libraries recognized USB HID devices, so devs didn't have to do anything extra. This is basically what the whole Skullgirls fighting stick thing is about.

So the onus is actually on the game developers to add the support, in this case Evolution for Driveclub or Polyphony for the eventual GT7?
 

Nerix

Member
I kept asking people to try it, and finally a junior member did.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=125821466#post125821466

[...]

The situation is basically what's summarized here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=124896335&postcount=107

Short version: Devs use Sony libraries, get only official Sony licensed controller input. But they can support USB HID themselves. On PS3 it would appear the Sony libraries recognized USB HID devices, so devs didn't have to do anything extra. This is basically what the whole Skullgirls fighting stick thing is about.
Interesting... Does this also include force feedback support, if Sony/Evolution would decide to support it? One more reason to tweet and show them, that there are many people who are pissed about the lack of support.

I am wondering if this security chip thing is just plain wrong (to justify the lack of compatibility), or if there is just a possibility of including basic features without a chip.
 
If they include the force feedback, then someone needs to pay Immersion a ridiculous amount of money.

In about a year, they won't need to pay Immersion anything.
 

Salty Hippo

Member
One of the reasons I decided to go with PC this gen. Eternal backwards compatibility not just for games, but accessories too.
 
i want a wheel for driveclub and you can get a good deal on logitech g27s off of kijiji

would be really nice if they outright said whether or not this will work with the game so people can start getting ready
 

le-seb

Member
i want a wheel for driveclub and you can get a good deal on logitech g27s off of kijiji

would be really nice if they outright said whether or not this will work with the game so people can start getting ready
Err, they said which wheels would be compatible with the game at release, and no Logitech wheel has been invited to the party.
 

le-seb

Member
As far as DriveClub is concerned, the Thrustmaster supported wheels are the T80, T100, T300 and T500. That's it.
 

Insane Metal

Gold Member
As far as DriveClub is concerned, the Thrustmaster supported wheels are the T80, T100, T300 and T500. That's it.

Nice, thanks Evo/Sony. I won't be able to use a wheel then. Here in Brazil the T500 costs about US$ 1.100. Yep, that's not a typo. And that's the only wheel available. If we import any of the others, we'll have to pay 100%+ to the government in taxes.

Thanks a lot!
 

le-seb

Member
Here on GAF, you have Seanspeed's impressions from EGX:
Seanspeed said:
- DriveClub(PS4) - Wait time about 5 minutes. I mean, it looks good. Really good. But the surprise for me was how it felt. It has good weight to it, its responsive, and while extremely forgiving by my sim racing standards, will still provide a good challenge for most people, I think. The courses are really long as we've seen, and there's good variety as you drive through them, giving you a good sense of 'going somewhere'. Only complaint was absolutely laughable rubberband AI. I totally ripped through the AI and was miles faster than them, but once in the lead, the 2nd place guy suddenly stuck on my tail and then just zoomed by me before the finish in a straight line like it suddenly had an extra 300hp or something. Totally not exaggerating that, either. I honestly laughed out loud when it happened. Still, this game will be great.

And I can also think of a bunch of people on other forums who said the game played great with a wheel.
 

paskowitz

Member
Interview with Thomas Jackermeier CEO of Fanatec:

Via Google Translate
The old and often expensive managed steering wheels of the last console generation is known, no longer work on the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One - no matter whether they are dealing with devices from Logitech, Fanatec, Thrustmaster or another manufacturer. We nachgehakt at Thomas Jackermeier, CEO and founder of Fanatec, on the SimRacing Expo, why this is so and it is a new purchase probably will not come around if you want to enjoy racing games of the new generation of consoles with steering wheel and pedals.


4players: Where exactly is the problem that your previous (multi-platform) steering wheels no longer on the Xbox and PlayStation 4 One work?

Thomas Jackermeier: For a device is fully recognized by the new consoles, a security chip is necessary. This chip is supplied by Microsoft or Sony and ensures that only official devices work. Each input device is checked by the console manufacturers, precisely, and without their release nothing goes on sale.

4players: Would it be theoretically feasible to allow compatibility later?

Thomas Jackermeier: An adapter is officially not possible, because such would lead this security system ad absurdum. Therefore, these adapters are not offered by reputable companies and also they do not function correctly. Decent Force Feedback is thus not feasible.

4players: The Wheel Base V2 have announced their a new steering wheel, to operate in the future with appropriate Rims also on the new consoles. As you can imagine the principle?

Thomas Jackermeier: We implement the security chip just the steering wheel and this then switches the base in the respective mode.

4players: Are the plans already set in stone or is it you still in negotiations with Sony and Microsoft?

Thomas Jackermeier: With a manufacturer negotiations are completed (MS) and with the other they are still running (Sony).

4players: You were with the Porsche Turbo S and the CSR Wheel two steering wheels in the program, which represented a great all-in-one solution for owners of multiple platforms with a compatibility to the 360, PS3 and the PC. Have you planned something similar for V2 or will you have to choose a separate wheel for each system?

Thomas Jackermeier: is aufzustecken Another steering wheel for most pose no problem. We want to avoid that the customer has to change the base. Pedals and shifter work with us anyway on all platforms.

4players: Can I continue to use parts of his already acquired equipment like pedals or shifter?

Thomas Jackermeier: This is the advantage of our modular system. Everything can be purchased and upgraded individually. And of course everything is also compatible with future products.

4players: When can we expect with the Rims for One and PS4 and in what price region they will move?

Thomas Jackermeier: An exact date I can not even call, but there will be several categories of products.
The future looks Fanatec in the modular design of the new Club Sports Wheel Base V2, which can pre-order just yet Fanatec customers via code.
The future looks Fanatec in the modular design of the new Club Sport Wheel Base V2, which can pre-order just yet Fanatec customers via code.

4players: For the casual rider's financial pain threshold should be exceeded even with the acquisition of the base unit. Do you plan an alternative to high-class professional equipment even cheaper entry-level models for One and PS4?

Thomas Jackermeier: For each product category (Base, steering wheel, pedals, shifter), we are planning different quality levels at different price levels. Everything is compatible and if necessary can do what one most important thing is to be upgraded first.

4players: Thanks for the clarification!
 

paskowitz

Member
Now Fanatec says there's a chip too? Crazy. Isn't that the third, completely different explanation we've gotten from them? =/

Ultimately, it ALL goes back to the console manufacturers. They control this show now. Fanatec, Logitech, other just post what they know/are told at the time, which may not always be ultimately/finally accurate.

There is one consistent thing Fanatec, Logitech, Slightly Mad Studios have all said, and that is, if you want to complain, complain to Sony/MS.
 

Jilt

Member
Ultimately, it ALL goes back to the console manufacturers. They control this show now. Fanatec, Logitech, other just post what they know/are told at the time, which may not always be ultimately/finally accurate.

There is one consistent thing Fanatec, Logitech, Slightly Mad Studios have all said, and that is, if you want to complain, complain to Sony/MS.

True! Have said this from the beginning.
And still in this I read "full functionality", which means XMB controll.
There also had been told that if a game producer wants a steering wheel support ingame, they are free to do so.......

And the Thrustmaster T500RS does not Have the security chip, so there you have it.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
True! Have said this from the beginning.
And still in this I read "full functionality", which means XMB controll.
There also is the saying that if a game producer wants a steering wheel support ingame, they are free to do so.......

Both driveclub and project cars have said they support the T100. But that is an immersion touch sense based wheel. One limitation is that I think you can't navigate the OS or menus with the wheel - you have to use a DS4 and then switch to the wheel for the race. For me that would be a fine compromise if it meant older wheels working.


So we have the T500 with no securit chip but it still works, and the T100 with no security chip *and* immersion FFB also working.

Why is this so complicated?
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
In all honesty, I don't see the point of DC with a wheel given it's only 30fps. I couldn't imagine GT without my G27 wheel, but the likes of PGR, FH and DC... I'm not seeing how a a wheel will enhance things given the framerate limitations.

It is easier to find/maintain/follow a line with a wheel than with a controller, at any resolution.
 

whome0

Member
There also had been told that if a game producer wants a steering wheel support ingame, they are free to do so.......
And the Thrustmaster T500RS does not Have the security chip, so there you have it.

There is one consistent thing Fanatec, Logitech, Slightly Mad Studios have all said, and that is, if you want to complain, complain to Sony/MS.

Both driveclub and project cars have said they support the T100. But that is an immersion touch sense based wheel. One limitation is that I think you can't navigate the OS or menus. So we have the T500 with no securit chip but it still works, and the T100 with no security chip *and* immersion FFB also working.

So forum understanding is this?
MS ja Sony reguires a security chip on all official usb devices. Official device may get driver and documentation available for all game developers. Platform manufacturer has done patents and licensing agreements. Devices work on OS and game menus fine.

Game developers are free to implement any USB-HID profile including racing wheel, rumbles and force feedbacks. Also taking into account possible patents and licensing issues by themself. Implementing a precise usb-hid profile without any documentation is near impossible, force feedback wheels have hundreds of scalar variables.

Thrustmaster may have provided a full USBHID profiles of their older racing wheels. Studios paid for a minimal fee or in exchange of The Official Wheel of XYZGame joint marketing.

Logitech is out of console business so may not be interested in providing any support and documentation. Why do Fanatec does not provide usbhid profile of older wheels? I think they used Logitech profiles so thats a showstopper.
 

Freeman

Banned
I think Sony should just explain what is going on, this lack of communication is what pisses me off, they show no respect to their consumers. They better not lie as well, just come out and tell what is going on.

What sucks the most is that I got a Logitech Wheel because at the time they were saying it was up to dev to add support for wheels in their PS4 games.
 
Both driveclub and project cars have said they support the T100. But that is an immersion touch sense based wheel. One limitation is that I think you can't navigate the OS or menus with the wheel - you have to use a DS4 and then switch to the wheel for the race. For me that would be a fine compromise if it meant older wheels working.


So we have the T500 with no securit chip but it still works, and the T100 with no security chip *and* immersion FFB also working.

Why is this so complicated?

No its the T80 and T500
https://twitter.com/Rushy33/statuses/454644904296448000

edit: T300 also now that its out.

That pcars image with the T100 for ps4 is a mistake.
 
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