Thrustmaster wheel and flight stick from last gen have been reported to work in current gen games.
There must be a reason why, huh?
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Logitech responds about PS4 wheel support - Sony demands advanced security
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
There must be a reason why, huh?
i guess they implemented "security chip" long before PS4 was out, lol.
BradleyLove
Member
But we're not talking Mad Catz, we're talking Logitech wheels. Sony may very well be the bad guy when it comes to Mad Catz, but as Amar has presented, Logitech don't have the license to use Immersion technology on PS4. That's on Logitech, not Sony.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
I guess as a consumer who is confused about all this, all I know is that I have 400 dollars worth of plastic that Sony, Logitech, or Madcatz is asking me to throw out in order to buy the exact same product with a slight update. Sony has remained silent while the other two players are blaming the "security chip" thing as the reason why their products are suddenly not working anymore. Given that Sony hasn't responded to these "accusations", I can only assume that their silence is a confirmation that they are the ones at fault. Otherwise, why would you let other companies use you as a scapegoat?
They should just release a dongle WITH the security chip in that daisey chains to the usb connector in that case.
I suppose if all else fails you can link the pots on the wheel to an arduino and send the signals to the analog sticks terminals of a cheap third party controller, along with all the button mappings (rewire it basically)
I do this, regularly with fight sticks too.
I suppose if all else fails you can link the pots on the wheel to an arduino and send the signals to the analog sticks terminals of a cheap third party controller, along with all the button mappings (rewire it basically)
I do this, regularly with fight sticks too.
Why they haven't done this exact thing is a mystery to me. It's not rocket science.
They'd rather sell you another costly device than let you use the one you already own?
Like you said, it's not rocket science, it's just shameless business.
serversurfer
Member
Except they're not doing that either? Why? Because there is no such chip, and they're probably just waiting for the Immersion patent to run out.
It's not rocket science; just read the thread.
Logitech may have gone out of the console peripherals business and has nothing more to sell you today, but Mad Catz surely wants to sell you some new racing wheels (to xbox one owners, at least) and fight sticks, right?
And if you read again the thread before barking at me, you'd know I've been calling the security chip excuse bullshit from the start.
I was just giving a reason why no sane device maker would even consider making such a dongle (which would certainly defeat the purpose of using a security chip, by the way ; here's a second one why it won't happen): there's more money to make by selling you new shiny devices.
And if you read again the thread before barking at me, you'd know I've been calling the security chip excuse bullshit from the start.
I was just giving a reason why no sane device maker would even consider making such a dongle (which would certainly defeat the purpose of using a security chip, by the way ; here's a second one why it won't happen): there's more money to make by selling you new shiny devices.
serversurfer
Member
I haven't looked at any of the Mad Catz controllers. Were they listed as only being compatible with the PS3? If so, then it's likely Sony were sub-licensing the Immersion tech to MC, since they could authorize third parties to make controllers which were compatible only with PS3. Unfortunately, the courts ruled that Immersion can demand fresh agreements for every new console, so any arrangements made for existing controllers don't apply to the PS4. Sony don't have permission to allow PS3 controllers to be used on PS4.
If Mad Catz controllers are also listed as PC- and/or XB-compatible, then they've always been negotiating directly with Immersion, and Sony never had anything to do with it in the first place.
If Mad Catz controllers are also listed as PC- and/or XB-compatible, then they've always been negotiating directly with Immersion, and Sony never had anything to do with it in the first place.
Fact is neither Thrustmaster T300-RS racing wheel nor Mad Catz latest fight stick for PlayStation relies on patented Immersion technologies.
But both devices have a PS3/PS4 selector switch (with PS3 being the PC compatible position), though.
Which means that Sony actually changed something at a hardware or software level, and here comes our security chip, which cannot be dismissed that simply.
However, at the same time, examples show that previous gen devices can be used in current gen games (T500-RS wheel in DriveClub, some flight stick in War Thunder) as long as developers include support for them directly in the games.
Logitech simply dismisses the second point by hiding behind the first one, and that's why I call their excuse bullshit. It's clear the real reason is they don't want to pay Immersion (again). And nobody is willing to, let's be honest. Support may come once Immersion patents expire, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Mad Catz, I'm pretty sure they simply don't give a fuck with customer loyalty and will just take some more money from them at the first available opportunity, which Sony is offering to them here.
But both devices have a PS3/PS4 selector switch (with PS3 being the PC compatible position), though.
Which means that Sony actually changed something at a hardware or software level, and here comes our security chip, which cannot be dismissed that simply.
However, at the same time, examples show that previous gen devices can be used in current gen games (T500-RS wheel in DriveClub, some flight stick in War Thunder) as long as developers include support for them directly in the games.
Logitech simply dismisses the second point by hiding behind the first one, and that's why I call their excuse bullshit. It's clear the real reason is they don't want to pay Immersion (again). And nobody is willing to, let's be honest. Support may come once Immersion patents expire, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Mad Catz, I'm pretty sure they simply don't give a fuck with customer loyalty and will just take some more money from them at the first available opportunity, which Sony is offering to them here.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
On the one hand I understand that a company based around selling the same things over and over again would more than welcome a reason to force people buy another stick/wheel. I can't blame them for being a business. But I also know I don't want to spend money on something that is basically the same thing either.
4 weeks away from Driveclub launch and the situation is still not clear on wheels. If I was a racing enthusiast (I mean, like a serious one) that wanted to get his setup ready for the game I'd be pretty pissed off. Luckily I'm not.
I wonder if the people in the beta can tell us whether any of the Logitech wheels work by chance.
I wonder if the people in the beta can tell us whether any of the Logitech wheels work by chance.
soundscream
Member
Its quite clear, no legacy wheel support. Sony just hasn't come out and said it officially.
Don't think you are right. If a game developer decides to support for example a Logitech wheel in the game, it would work. Imo it would only work in game and not in the ps4's XMB. Examples are already there.
The immersion contract, reffered to, has a future policy built into it, which accounts for new consoles and unforseen changes.
The only thing this is, is Thrustmaster being positioned into a good marketing perspective, so they sell a great number of steeringwheels to the people who needed a slight push to buy a new rig.
I have high hopes that legacy wheels will be supported in the near future.
soundscream
Member
Then why are no publishers doing so? Why would a company like Fanatec be creating an add-on to there new wheel base specifically for PS4?
In adition to my previous post, none of the parties involved say anything about not having legacy wheel support. They all say stuff like: "Evolution worked closely with Thrustmaster to get the best possible feel on all their wheels. When using a supported wheel you get 1:1 movement between the steering wheel in your hands and the steering wheel in-game."
They are all avoiding the big answer to the big question. Avoiding means not telling the whole truth, which means there is something going on moneywise
This means they are non communitative about legacy wheel, but all promoting Thrustmaster as the new partner......
Wait and see....
They are all avoiding the big answer to the big question. Avoiding means not telling the whole truth, which means there is something going on moneywise
This means they are non communitative about legacy wheel, but all promoting Thrustmaster as the new partner......
Wait and see....
Good question, probably to get XMB support.....?!
soundscream
Member
More likely because its not coming. You think people are mad about this situation, if they allow legacy wheel support after people upgrade their equipment......thats a shit storm I don't want to be anywhere near.
This won't happen "by chance".
Even if they could
- they hinted they can -
Console accessories are globally a niche market, and trademark licensing means you also do have to pay some fee to the console maker. Which means that Logitech, that produced relatively cheap products, probably made only very small margins with them.
So, when they took the decision to cut into their least profitable activities two or three years ago, this console accessories business (along with some other not so profitable ones, yet excellent, like Squeezebox network audio players) was purely and simply killed (their Harmony remote controllers were also on the grill at a time, but didn't experience such a dreadful fate).
The fact that some of the console accessories were also compatible with PCs is the only reason why they're still produced and sold today.
True, but as I stated, there is nobody telling anyone the thruth. They are avoiding the question.
This is all marketing. Probably a deal with Thrustmaster not to say anything about legacy wheel support. Logitech and Fanatec are probably left in the dark at this point....
soundscream
Member
If they are in the dark why put out the statement they did. Thomas from Fanatec didn't spell out the issue directly but said basically that they could do legacy support for their wheels was in Sonys court and they weren't allowing it.
Licensing deals are only a logical thing to enter to enter into, if you have a product to sell. Fanatec announces their intention to produce said product. Logitech unless they are getting back into the wheel business won't sign a licensing deal because they would not be making any profit from it.
Exactly! Just my point! Fanatec also said, if Sony decides to support a wheel they would do it.
It does seem logical to me, that Thrustmaster made an exclusive deal with Sony and SMS and Evolution Studio's which beholds not to discuss any other wheels, brands or legacy wheels in their marketing campaigns. I mean, listen to the second question of this video interview. He avoids the question, almost said it out loud, but corrected himself....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkeMiybOu08
I see repetative signs of avoiding the question. This is a bit silly, because the whole race gaming community is asking this question and no one gives a straight forward answer like a yes or a no.
My conclusion, they are all under contract for not saying so or left in the dark!
To further support my theory, you know the petition made by Change.org?
http://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4
It quotes a statement from Logitech:
"The wheel works with HID drivers which can be found on the PS3 console port, so we expect the same driver implementation on the current successor. It's on the game console developers (Sony) to check their driver support will provide for external wheel controllers, or to work in a timely manner."
It is with Sony to decide wether to support the wheels ingame or not. As said before, it might not work in the XMB of the PS4, but who cares. As long as it work in the simulator.
By the way, what kind of racing simulation maker are you to state that the use of the PS4 controller is also very satisfying... I don't buy that.
http://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4
It quotes a statement from Logitech:
"The wheel works with HID drivers which can be found on the PS3 console port, so we expect the same driver implementation on the current successor. It's on the game console developers (Sony) to check their driver support will provide for external wheel controllers, or to work in a timely manner."
It is with Sony to decide wether to support the wheels ingame or not. As said before, it might not work in the XMB of the PS4, but who cares. As long as it work in the simulator.
By the way, what kind of racing simulation maker are you to state that the use of the PS4 controller is also very satisfying... I don't buy that.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
The kind that would like to sell more than a few hundred copies?
AFAIK, Fanatec wheels emulate Logitech ones on consoles.
So no Logitech wheel support on PS4 means no Fanatec wheel support.
That's what Thomas was implying, I think: given Logitech is out, it's up to Sony adding support for legacy Logitech wheels, and Fanatec wheels would be supported automatically.
I don't think there's any exclusivity deal going on with Thrustmaster, except for the T80 being the official DriveClub wheel.
If Thrustmaster had an exclusivity deal, they would certainly shout it out loud.
So no Logitech wheel support on PS4 means no Fanatec wheel support.
That's what Thomas was implying, I think: given Logitech is out, it's up to Sony adding support for legacy Logitech wheels, and Fanatec wheels would be supported automatically.
I don't think there's any exclusivity deal going on with Thrustmaster, except for the T80 being the official DriveClub wheel.
If Thrustmaster had an exclusivity deal, they would certainly shout it out loud.
Insane Metal
Member
Where is the best place I could import a T300 from? I found some at ebay but they don't ship to brazil 
soundscream
Member
He said anyone who wants to sign a licensing deal also in his quote. Meaning if you want your peripheral to work you have to pay. And while true a a studio like slightly mad could enable the use of g25/27 wheels, but how do you think Sony would respond? No publisher/studio is going to undermine a console makers policy's. Not of they want to continue to do business with them. Fanatec themselves said they could make a device for legacy wheels to work, but it wouldn't be legal and it would hurt their relationship with the platform holders. Hence the new products announced with portions of the sales of the new merchendise goes towards said deals.
Any news on that topic?
It probably won´t help much, but here are two petitions for supporting old wheels on PS4. Quite a few votes already:
https://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4
http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2014/05/20/ps4-compatibility-with-g25-steering-wheel/
It probably won´t help much, but here are two petitions for supporting old wheels on PS4. Quite a few votes already:
https://www.change.org/p/sony-add-logitech-and-fanatec-wheel-support-to-ps4
http://share.blog.us.playstation.com/ideas/2014/05/20/ps4-compatibility-with-g25-steering-wheel/
reptilexcq2
Neo Member
No matter how great Drive Club game is....i won't be playing it if they don't support the old legacy wheels. I am not going to waste another couple hundred bucks for another wheel. If I invest in a wheel, it will be on Project Cars on PC...not console. Screw Sony!! Project Cars on PC w/ wheel and Oculus Rift is the real deal. Plus Drive Club doesn't even support VR.
MagnetoWasRight
Member
Fanatecs new Clubsport 2.0 base will suport the PS4 and the Xbox One but that's the only good news. The how is the bad news. The base will be $500 and does not come with pedals, a wheel, or a shifter. The pedals will cost $80-$150. The shifter will be another $80-$100.
Now here's the kicker. They've insinuated that Microsoft is blocking them from making wheels that work with PS4 and Xbox One. So you'll have to buy the wheel base that relates to your desired platform. The wheels will probably be $300 each.
So if you want a wheel that works with PS4 and Xbox One and is of decent quality, you're looking at over $1,200.
Where are the good old days of the ~$400 CSR wheel?
Now here's the kicker. They've insinuated that Microsoft is blocking them from making wheels that work with PS4 and Xbox One. So you'll have to buy the wheel base that relates to your desired platform. The wheels will probably be $300 each.
So if you want a wheel that works with PS4 and Xbox One and is of decent quality, you're looking at over $1,200.
Where are the good old days of the ~$400 CSR wheel?
They've gone mad. The official GT Logitech wheel was very affordable (I bought it for 100usd) and though it had faulty pedals, it did a very good job. Now it's as good as a coaster tho.
Neuromancer
Member
This is a joke, right?
Living Proof
Member
This whole thread is disappointing me. I don't really feel like buying Driveclub to play with a controller, but I can't afford to dish out a lot of money on a compatible wheel with all the other stuff I'm buying this fall and the holidays, either.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with my Logitech other than the fact that it isn't licensed (or whatever the problem specifically is). I know it isn't Sony or Evolution's problem, but this is probably going to stop me from buying the game, period-- don't even care about the gimped Plus version.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with my Logitech other than the fact that it isn't licensed (or whatever the problem specifically is). I know it isn't Sony or Evolution's problem, but this is probably going to stop me from buying the game, period-- don't even care about the gimped Plus version.
chrominance
Member
It IS Sony's problem if it starts to affect sales of Driveclub and (later) Gran Turismo. Sadly, I don't think the audience that uses steering wheels is big enough for us to make a significant dent in sales even if we organized a boycott, as opposed to just not buying racing games due to controller-driven apathy.
Exactly, even if it's not Sony's fault, what's keeping everyone from lobbying them toward resolving the issue? Maybe - just saying - by preordering Project CARS over Driveclub en masse? We already know from wheels and other stuff working with War Thunder that the security issue can be bypassed with some whitelist, no?
I don't understand why logitech does not provide a route that infers the licensing cost to the users since it is not in the business of selling new wheels. That'd be a nice solution for logitech and logitech wheel owners alike.
BradleyLove
Member
In all honesty, I don't see the point of DC with a wheel given it's only 30fps. I couldn't imagine GT without my G27 wheel, but the likes of PGR, FH and DC... I'm not seeing how a a wheel will enhance things given the framerate limitations.
I'm a 60fps whore as much as the next 60gaffer, but those are different matters.
pr0cs
Member
Wow, this is some interesting logic.
"So because the game isn't 60fps there is no point to play it with a driving wheel"
Sorry I don't see it. Any semi-serious driving game is going to be more fun with a steering wheel, regardless of the framerate.
BradleyLove
Member
I think it's a valid concern. 30 fps games typically have a higher controller response time than 60 fps games.
My concern is the inherent latency in a 30 fps driving game will mean a less direct feel to the steering (i.e. me turning the wheel and a noticeable lag before the car responds).
I'd love to be proven wrong, but I don't so what's so "interesting" about the logic. At some point the framerate of a game will have a negative impact on the effectiveness of a wheel. Whether that's at 30, I don't know.
You're still driving 30fps with a DS4. It's still better to be driving with a wheel and the force-feedback is not something that requires immediacy.
I'm on record raging hard about this topic and it's caused me a lot of anger over the past year. But know what? My philosophy has changed entirely. I'm now relieved that the lack of legacy wheel support gave me pause for thought before jumping on the next-gen console bandwagon because I now know that the £1000-odd I'd have spent on a Bone and PS4 (including games) would have been regretted. I'd have been caught up in the hype and dived in head first with blinkers firmly in place. I've come to realise that I don't actually want either of those consoles because they don't offer me enough that's interesting. The money will be far better spent next year towards a Rift CV1 and a powerful gaming PC, a set-up that is quite happy to accommodate my existing Fanatec racing rig without any issues whatsoever.
I hope the whole situation does finally get resolved for everyone else who's affected but speaking purely personally it's actually worked out for the best.
I hope the whole situation does finally get resolved for everyone else who's affected but speaking purely personally it's actually worked out for the best.
Same. PGR was fine with a controller (never had a 360 compatible wheel) so I don't mind so much for driveclub. But GT7 is another matter
Theognosis
Member
Same sentiments here. I'm going to get a powerful gaming PC and Oculus Rift to compliment my existing G27 and racing seat setup. Serious racing with a pathetic DS4 controller and flat screen will get obsolete very soon.
Kind of the same too, but not for the same reason (with it being 30fps). Having said that, as much fun as I have with PGR4 and a controller, it's a much better beast with the MSFF Wheel (and even the speed wheel, so long as you change the gear shifting to auto). The FF in that game is great.