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[thefil]

Now that I've moved to the US and have access to Hulu Plus, it's a lot easier to go through the classic Who skip list that was posted some OTs ago. Only two more first Doctor serials to go - The War Machines, and The Tenth Planet.

I finished The Chase last night, and it's one of my favourites so far. It's such a good premise for an episode I'm surprised it hasn't been re-used in NuWho. You get to see a bunch of locales, and the Doctor and his companions are focused more on escape than bravery and grandstanding. The First Doctor is such a callous motherfucker as well, beating up fungi and leaving civilizations to their ruin without blinking an eye. I'm greatly looking forward to his (gradual?) transformation from accidental traveler to perpetual saviour.

Finally, goodbye Barbara and Ian! Ian especially has got to be the most useful companion I've ever seen, saving the day three times to every one useful contribution the Doctor himself makes.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Co-signed.

The story made sense, there was a credible threat, the final solution had some proper set up to it instead of materializing out of nowhere when the story needs to end AND the script even remembered previously set-up rules ("Why can't the Tardis just translate?") instead of making up rules and forgetting them whenever convenient.

Everything I've disliked about the show recently was completely gone. By far the best episode of the season.

Man, I've been watching a bunch of episodes recently and the rules are so inconsistent. I mean, I thought Father's Day from series 1 was really good (where

Spoiler

Rose saves her dad's life

), but the whole idea of the episode, as 9 puts it, was something like "there's a man alive who shouldn't be" and that allows the time-leech monsters to break through to our reality and destroy everything -- but why doesn't that happen in the case of the people he saves from Pompeii? Or the 3-4 people he saves in The Waters of Mars? They establish early on that if he messes with the ordinary cycle of events there are dire consequences, but he does that loads in later series. Heck, pretty much every episode is him saving people who would otherwise be dead if he hadn't shown up. And the idea that he can become Superpowered Space Jesus by everyone in the world thinking of him at the same time, or can come back to life after he's been erased from existence if Amy remembers him is just godawful crazy nonsense.

I mean, I do really like it when there's no deus ex machina bullshit that wins the day, which I think is why I favour the monster of the week format.

 

[MrHoot]

Man, I've been watching a bunch of episodes recently and the rules are so inconsistent. I mean, I thought Father's Day from series 1 was really good (where

Spoiler

Rose saves her dad's life

), but the whole idea of the episode, as 9 puts it, was something like "there's a man alive who shouldn't be" and that allows the time-leech monsters to break through to our reality and destroy everything -- but why doesn't that happen in the case of the people he saves from Pompeii? Or the 3-4 people he saves in The Waters of Mars? They establish early on that if he messes with the ordinary cycle of events there are dire consequences, but he does that loads in later series. Heck, pretty much every episode is him saving people who would otherwise be dead if he hadn't shown up. And the idea that he can become Superpowered Space Jesus by everyone in the world thinking of him at the same time, or can come back to life after he's been erased from existence if Amy remembers him is just godawful crazy nonsense.

I mean, I do really like it when there's no deus ex machina bullshit that wins the day, which I think is why I favour the monster of the week format.

Well, before I argue, I will just say that yeah, Doctor Who "rules" when it comes to monsters and time travel are mostly nonsensical and prone to retcons every so and so reason.

Especially these monsters specifically never appear again as the writers have found better ways to convey that effect like in Waters of mars.

With that said: I think the reason these creatures intervened on father's day is that Rose's father's death was too important to let pass. If he didn't die, then Rose's life would've been completely different, which would've made the doctor's life completely different and the whole future tied to him as well. Fixed points and whatnot. Except they decided to use a goofy monster to deal with a fix point.

Basically I just go by the few recurring rules of who which are "You can't change a fixed point in time (unless you have a powerful macguffin to help you like in DotD)" and "Meeting yourself is potentially catastrophic, except if you are the doctor". But even these are so written in the sand that god knows what could happen in the future

 

[Dalek]

Wow-Flatline is incredible. It's like a real breath of fresh air- a truly original and creative story using the TARDIS dimensions as a stnrypoint. and I LOVED LOVED LOVED Clara in this episode. Jamie Mathieson is a genius!

 

[Hot Coldman]

I like that the thread title never got censored.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Well, before I argue, I will just say that yeah, Doctor Who "rules" when it comes to monsters and time travel are mostly nonsensical and prone to retcons every so and so reason.

Especially these monsters specifically never appear again as the writers have found better ways to convey that effect like in Waters of mars.

With that said: I think the reason these creatures intervened on father's day is that Rose's father's death was too important to let pass. If he didn't die, then Rose's life would've been completely different, which would've made the doctor's life completely different and the whole future tied to him as well. Fixed points and whatnot. Except they decided to use a goofy monster to deal with a fix point.

Basically I just go by the few recurring rules of who which are "You can't change a fixed point in time (unless you have a powerful macguffin to help you like in DotD)" and "Meeting yourself is potentially catastrophic, except if you are the doctor". But even these are so written in the sand that god knows what could happen in the future

Wasn't Fathers Days paradox less 'they changed time' and more 'there were two Rose's there at the same time, and then she saved his life.' Like it was a paradox on a paradox?

 

[Slowdive]

Flatline got an AI of 85, same as last week.

 

[Fireblend]

Wasn't Fathers Days paradox less 'they changed time' and more 'there were two Rose's there at the same time, and then she saved his life.' Like it was a paradox on a paradox?

Yeah I like to think that the reapers appeared because it was a pretty blatant paradox. There were two Roses, she saved her father, she did everything but avoid interaction with her family, etc. I don't think anything so far has been comparable to that (crazy season finales notwithstanding), including Waters of Mars. Angels Take Manhattan would be the closest I can think of.

But then again there is no better test for your suspension of disbelief than Doctor Who's consistency.

 

[Slowdive]

Neil Gaiman:

Whenever I’m in the UK, I sneak into meetings with [the Doctor Who showrunners]. They say, ‘Can you do another one?!’ and I say, ‘Yes! But not yet!’ And now I’m just sort of hoping that I can get one done while Peter Capaldi is still the Doctor, because it would be a very sad thing if I lost my chance to write for a grumpy, Scottish Doctor.

 

[Htown]

Finally, goodbye Barbara and Ian! Ian especially has got to be the most useful companion I've ever seen, saving the day three times to every one useful contribution the Doctor himself makes.

Ian was a certified badass.

 

[Walshicus]

Dalek Invasion of Earth finished up on my (first time) start-to-finish run of Who. Bye bye Susan!

 

[The Elite]

Neil Gaiman:

That has me excited and concerned all at the same time.

 

[Zabka]

Yep. "Like Addams Family" scene shot right up to one of my favorites of the whole show. The real tension combined with the absolute hilariousness of it all was delightful. The idea, the execution, the Doctor's little dance, the Tardis falling again, his shock. Just perfect.

I loved this episode.

 

[Platy]

Neil Gaiman:

If I was emperor of the world, Gaiman and the "FAQ of Time Travel" would write every episode on a season

 

[Kathian]

If I was emperor of the world, Gaiman and the "FAQ of Time Travel" would write every episode on a season

Makes more sense than going to live in a theme park and watch some people die before you can admit they just made you look pretty on the coins.

 

[Slowdive]

They're screening the finale four days early in Wales: http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/watch-death-in-heaven-early-67945.htm

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Now that I've moved to the US and have access to Hulu Plus, it's a lot easier to go through the classic Who skip list that was posted some OTs ago. Only two more first Doctor serials to go - The War Machines, and The Tenth Planet..

I think that might possibly have been one of mine. Did you enjoy The Romans & The Time Meddler?

Finally, goodbye Barbara and Ian! Ian especially has got to be the most useful companion I've ever seen, saving the day three times to every one useful contribution the Doctor himself makes.

Ian will knock you out

If the Doctor ever went around with Ian, Ace & Leela, he wouldn't even need to leave the tardis

 

[Ophelion]

Ian will knock you out

If the Doctor ever went around with Ian, Ace & Leela, he wouldn't even need to leave the tardis

Which is why he'd never do that. Can you imagine what would happen to his ego? He'd be intolerable.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Which is why he'd never do that. Can you imagine what would happen to his ego? He'd be intolerable.

He learnt all he knows about saving people from Ian anyway, before Ian he would have just clubbed people to death with nearby rocks

he should be like

"whadda we do next boss?"

 

[Alcoremortis]

I loved this episode.

Well, I think this will have to be my new favorite Abandon Thread/ Nope gif.

 

[Slowdive]

In The Forest of The Night promo pics.

Not that interesting, more here.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

A thick jungle you say?

"Dannyboy"

 

[thefil]

I think that might possibly have been one of mine. Did you enjoy The Romans & The Time Meddler?

Yes, I really did. I made a post about them months ago and how they were alarmingly refreshing after the low expectations set by the impossible child.'

Weirdly now, though, I can hardly remember what happens in The Romans (as compared to the Aztecs or the Time Meddler). At least it will be good to go back to!

 

[M.Bluth]

In The Forest of The Night promo pics.



Not that interesting, more here.

Yeah, this isn't doing it for me. Well, at least I'm sure character interactions will be fun

 

[Platy]

Makes more sense than going to live in a theme park and watch some people die before you can admit they just made you look pretty on the coins.

Well you can do BOTH =P

...specialy if the park has artificial moon gravity =D

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

"The Man Who Stops The Monsters" speech at the end of Flatline is on par with The Pandorica Speech for me.


Speaking of, i have a sudden hankering to watch Series 5 again

 

[Dalek]

Jesus Christ I'm so stupid. "Flat"line.

*smacks forehead*

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

Yes, I really did. I made a post about them months ago and how they were alarmingly refreshing after the low expectations set by the impossible child.'

Weirdly now, though, I can hardly remember what happens in The Romans (as compared to the Aztecs or the Time Meddler). At least it will be good to go back to!

Cool. Roman's was pretty much old school british farce. I think it's the only time Who's done that, although I guess Gunfighters came close.

 

[Bluth54]

"The Man Who Stops The Monsters" speech at the end of Flatline is on par with The Pandorica Speech for me.

Yeah it really felt like his "I'm the Doctor" moment. I'm not sure why it took them 9 episodes to get that in, but at least we got it.

 

[Htown]

So now that I think about it, the Doctor showing up is never good news for the Roman empire, is it? lol

 

[mclem]

I loved this episode.

The interesting thing about this, I think, is that out of context, it's actually pretty damn creepy. In context, it's brilliantly absurd yet makes perfect sense

 

[Fireblend]

The Boneless kinda freaked me out because they reminded me of every video game I've played that suddenly glitched in horrible creepy ways.

My brother mentioned they looked like the enemies in the Alan Wake games and he's 100% right.

 

[mrklaw]

if the boneless got a good audience response, I can see them being a potential recurring enemy. They could also adapt to be better at the 3D, so they could look like normal people

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

if the boneless got a good audience response, I can see them being a potential recurring enemy. They could also adapt to be better at the 3D, so they could look like normal people

The boneless use a 3d printer in their diabolical plan TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD

 

[Sigma722]

The boneless were really cool. That being said, when he announced their name, I did not hear "boneless"

 

[APZonerunner]

It probably won't be a popular opinion, but the big speech came across a bit pat to me, really. I think it was the words chosen rather than Capaldi, but it didn't work for me as much as the best of Smith's or even Tennant's did.

 

[The Technomancer]

It probably won't be a popular opinion, but the big speech came across a bit pat to me, really. I think it was the words chosen rather than Capaldi, but it didn't work for me as much as the best of Smith's or even Tennant's did.

It never worked for me for any if them so it was also the flattest part of this epispde for me. The rest was ace though

 

[aHebrewMenagerie]

It never worked for me for any if them so it was also the flattest part of this epispde for me. The rest was ace though

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[DECK'ARD]

It probably won't be a popular opinion, but the big speech came across a bit pat to me, really. I think it was the words chosen rather than Capaldi, but it didn't work for me as much as the best of Smith's or even Tennant's did.

I liked it, mainly because it was short and to the point. Rather than trying to bore the opponent to death with an hour long monologue.

Capaldi doesn't have time for that, more "I'm the Doctor, fuck off" which would have been even better.

 

[The Elite]

It probably won't be a popular opinion, but the big speech came across a bit pat to me, really. I think it was the words chosen rather than Capaldi, but it didn't work for me as much as the best of Smith's or even Tennant's did.

I'm not sure if Capaldi is a big speech guy. It didn't quite work for me. The word choice was especially off and the delivery felt a bit awkward. Maybe it was the sentence structure or something but it didn't feel like Capaldi felt comfortable delivering the lines. I have to give it a re-watch to pinpoint what exactly bothered me about it but it felt noticeably off.

 

[Dryk]

I liked it, mainly because it was short and to the point. Rather than trying to bore the opponent to death with an hour long monologue.

Capaldi doesn't have time for that, more "I'm the Doctor, fuck off" which would have been even better.

As I've said previous in this thread I thought naming them and telling them our dimension is protected went a bit far. Would've been happier with "I am the Doctor, and you are NOT welcome here (fuckity bye)".

 

[Exterminieren]

You see, I think it worked precisely because Capaldi's Doctor is inherently uncomfortable with that kind of speech. It wasn't a triumphant "I AM THE DOCTOR AND I'VE OUTSMARTED YOU MONSTERS!" kind of affair- it was far more resigned and angry than that. He genuinely tried to help and reach out to the Boneless, and they went on killing anyway. There was an element of deep hurt in it that we haven't really heard in one of those speeches before.

Yeah, if we start hearing it every other episode then it might wear thin, but the fact that we hadn't heard anything quite like it from Capaldi's Doctor sold it for me.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

You see, I think it worked precisely because Capaldi's Doctor is inherently uncomfortable with that kind of speech. It wasn't a triumphant "I AM THE DOCTOR AND I'VE OUTSMARTED YOU MONSTERS!" kind of affair- it was far more resigned and angry than that. He genuinely tried to help and reach out to the Boneless, and they went on killing anyway. There was an element of deep hurt in it that we haven't really heard in one of those speeches before.

Yeah, if we start hearing it every other episode then it might wear thin, but the fact that we hadn't heard anything quite like it from Capaldi's Doctor sold it for me.

Yeah, I thought it was pretty great for that reason. Not a "you guys back off" ending and not a "look, there's a peaceful solution" plot, but rather a more complicated chain of events and resulting feelings.

 

[-griffy-]

In The Forest of The Night promo pics.



Not that interesting, more here.

Are they intentionally putting some Little Red Riding Hood imagery in there? Definitely jumped out at me a bit in the teaser with the girl in the red coat and the wolf chasing her.

 

[APZonerunner]

I'm not sure if Capaldi is a big speech guy. It didn't quite work for me. The word choice was especially off and the delivery felt a bit awkward. Maybe it was the sentence structure or something but it didn't feel like Capaldi felt comfortable delivering the lines. I have to give it a re-watch to pinpoint what exactly bothered me about it but it felt noticeably off.

I think for me one of the things I disliked about it was "the man that stops the monsters". I was totally with it when he's being angry-but-apologetic - an antagonist is the role you seem determined to play "so it seems I must-- play-- mine!" I liked that.

"The man that stops the monsters" sits poorly with me for a lot of reasons. It feels incredibly self aware - not of the Doctor, but of the show. It's a nudge and a wink to the audience, and very different to the "let somebody else try first" in Pandorica or the "I'm going to save your lives, and the lives of all six billion people on the planet below," in Voyage of the Damned. It feels like something that'd sound fine if it came out of Clara's mouth (indeed, companions often say similar) but seems really weird to me coming from the Doctor.

It also goes against one of those base things about the character, weirdly - RTD was big on this. I'm trying to find the quote but I can't find it, but he basically once said something along the lines of "Notice, the Doctor never calls them monsters. Even the evil ones, they're just creatures to him, unless he has a very specific relationship with them, like the Daleks, that colours that history." I like the idea that he's 'above' the term monsters and generally doesn't use it/believe in the concept of monsters, so to hear him say "I'm the man that stops the monsters" just made me go "eh, meh." If he'd said "you are my enemy - that is the role you seem determined to play" instead I think I might've liked it a ton more, weirdly.

The rest of it is fine, even if it isn't the most interesting thing ever or anything. Pretty standard climax stuff, I guess.

 

[OmegaFax]

One random gripe. When the TARDIS is recharged and left "Siege Mode", the scene was interrupted by cutting to a reaction shot of Jenna Coleman's face. I sat there thinking to myself how cool the shot could been had it let the TARDIS glimmer in the distance and throttle back in one continuous shot.

 

[Dalek]

You see, I think it worked precisely because Capaldi's Doctor is inherently uncomfortable with that kind of speech. It wasn't a triumphant "I AM THE DOCTOR AND I'VE OUTSMARTED YOU MONSTERS!" kind of affair- it was far more resigned and angry than that. He genuinely tried to help and reach out to the Boneless, and they went on killing anyway. There was an element of deep hurt in it that we haven't really heard in one of those speeches before.

Yeah, if we start hearing it every other episode then it might wear thin, but the fact that we hadn't heard anything quite like it from Capaldi's Doctor sold it for me.

I completely agree. It was a cathartic moment-he had been stuck in that box, and finally emerged and blew up at them. I loved it.

 

[Clegg]

Have a free night from college work so decided to watch a slightly old Who episode. Put on the 11th Hour and after a minute Amy's Theme starts playing. I really miss that track. It's just perfect.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

The speech was understated, and pretty out of nowhere. I still really liked it though. For how condescending and bitter Capaldi's Doctor has been, we've seen very few moments where he's legitimately exploded at an enemy. He's been hiding it beneath a veneer of quiet contempt, and it's nice to see him escape from that. Hopefully his scenes with Missy, whoever the fuck she is, will be gold.

if the boneless got a good audience response, I can see them being a potential recurring enemy. They could also adapt to be better at the 3D, so they could look like normal people

It would be nice to see them exercise some restraint and not have The Image of a Boneless/Boneless Mt. Rushmore until there's absolutely nothing threatening or interesting about the adversary again. Their mystery, much like a certain race I'm not so subtly alluding to, is part of their charm. One and done, IMO.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Yeah, I quite enjoyed the speech. Makes me hope he utterly demolishes Missy and derides her destruction of death [if that is in fact what she is doing].