KnockOneOff
Banned
Struggling which is worse, this or the conkers announcement
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Final Fantasy VII Announced For PS4
- Thread starter zakislam
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Love Deterrence
Member
I was never upset by this news, but now that the dust has settled a bit, I'm actually becoming more and more excited to play it again. I know plenty of people who have never touched this game, and I am so stoked to get to party chat with them and hear their reactions as they play through this masterpiece for the first time.
GregLombardi
Member
If by perfect you mean a troll that was 5-10 years late, and twice as poorly executed, then yes. It was perfect.
It wasn't even a good trailer. It looked like they came up with the idea to bring FF7PC to PS4 a week ago, which they probably fucking did, because how can it take until Spring 2015 for something so seemingly simple?
This is the kind of thing where it should be out in like 2 weeks.
I think everyone was stunned and in disbelief and couldn't react because everyone's brain was melting at that point and didn't know what happened after he left the stage.
Shadow_FFVI
Member
I hope. Why else would they wait until spring to release a game that is already available on steam?!
Fushichou187
Member
It would be hysterical if someone cut together a new "reveal trailer" but remake it using something like iMovie transitions, and splice it with the other footage from the live event.
I'm still crying on the inside.
AuthenticM
Member
If it's anything like the Steam release, it will have the original PSX audio.
Yeah, it really did not need a stage announcement at all. I still can't get over the crowd reaction though. When the VII logo popped up, everyone went crazy.
Jawmuncher
Member
PC was inferior at first but it got the music updated.
BibiMaghoo
Member
No, aside from the mentioned audio, the steam release has upscaled FMV's, translation corrections and bug removal, in addition to enhanced shaders.
The steam version has translation corrections?
Hm... That was one of my biggest complains with the game. But did it ever replace the midi music?
You're overestimating how 'influence' translates into sales.
DQ's primary base of sales is Japan. What did DQ7 sell there? 3.8 million, the top selling PS game in Japan. What did DQ8 sell? 3.5 million, the top selling PS2 game in Japan. What did DQ9 sell? DQ9 is #6 on the DS list but it still sold 4.1 million.
FF10 sold 6 million plus on the PS2, worldwide. In Japan, where 10 is 'dearly beloved', 10 sold approximately 2.3 million. What did the remaster sell there? 520k total across PS3 and Vita. A whopping 22% of the original fanbase for FF10 alone, in Japan.
What did FF12 sell? 5 million plus worldwide. What did FF13 sell? 5 million plus worldwide. An FF7 remake isn't going to sell 5 million. It's not going to be blockbuster sales. 22% of FF7's sales in Japan translates to approximately 720k (from 3.3 million). And mind you, Japan loves FF10 the most out of the series because of the bloody love story, which means the percentage of people who bought FF7 who will buy the remake is probably lower than 10's. Furthermore, console games sales have only been on decline in Japan. 720k would be the best-case scenario in Japan, and perhaps elsewhere in the world the dedicated fans (and yes, it is only the hardcore fans who would rush out to buy it day one) would be enough to nudge the total up to 2 million (also a best-case scenario).
Why fund a 7 remake when you can put the money towards the next DQ, which will top 3 million in Japan effortlessly? Why do that when you can fund the next FF + subfranchise that will net a couple million more sales from 'asset-reuse' sequels?
Your anecdote about the tech writer for your city newspaper is nice, but just an anecdote. You don't have to buy the argument that a 7 remake doesn't have the potential to do the same or better. It just flat out won't. Thinking it will sell close to even FF13's 6.6 million shipped numbers is a delusion. Your argument of 7 being a game that defined its generation is still an argument from the heart; that generation was 3 generations ago.
I don't think you understand what an engine is and what assets are. The engine runs the game. 'Assets' in game development refers to the environments, characters, monsters, music, sound effects, etc., essentially the content. Basically the so-called "take the 3d assets and just touch them up" is not engine development, it's recreation of assets, because the original data for FF7 no longer exists. They cannot simply "take the 3d assets and just touch them up" because 1) they don't have the original data and 2) if you're asking for a remake in the vein of REmake, they wouldn't be bloody using the horrible field character models from the PS FF7, they would be building new character models!Yes, I did read. Did you read my first post, before your answer, where I already said that it would have to be made from ground up with a new engine?^^ I never talked about old assets being re-rendered.
The 3D model amount (characters, monsters, etc.) is comparable to FFX/X-2, I think, though, as you said, the effort to touch them up is without doubt higher.
They could re-use many typical animations (especially for monsters, that are common in the series, like Behemots, etc.). SE should have a huge library of animations and models collected over the last decade of game development that they can use as a basis, by now.
It doesn't have to be on FFXV level, of course. Maybe above Type-0 or G-Bike, should Cyber Connect really do the remake
GAF, would you be satisfied with G-Bike quality? Here's a new gameplay video of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly2NuOhUHyE
Yup, that's why I said I'm probably underestimating it. I obviously haven't thought it all through or calculated the estimated costs. Only threw my idea in the room.
Has nothing to do with what I said. My first post even said it would need to build from ground up, without reuse of any old assets.
Besides, REmake was also build from ground up, so I don't know why you mention the problem with the old assets being lost.
I mentioned Type-0 only with regard to the world map, which is in the same style as FFVII.
If they render every screen from ground up, anyway, it's no problem to change the art design a bit and adjust building- and entry/door-heights, also. Like in FFVIII, which you posted a screen of.
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As I already said in my posts before: of course it wouldn't be an easy task - it would be like making a new game, yes. Still, it's more realistic than a FFXV-level remake.
One last question out of curiosity: Would you agree with me that a full-blown 3D, non-fixed-camera, remake would approximately cost and take around the same as FFXIII/FFXV? If not, why?
If they have to build new character models, then the same holds for all the monster and boss models, the 3D fields, the overworld map. Worse than that is that they have no pre rendered backgrounds data. This means all of the backgrounds have to be created from scratch.
Do you understand? CyberConnect doing a remake is a dream. It has nothing to do with GBike quality. The cost of doing what I outlined above is likely more than 10/10-2 HD, and more than Type-0 HD. Without reuse of any old assets, it's going to cost Square the amount to make a new game.
REmake is a game developed in 2002 during a time with lower development costs, and significantly less content than a full blown RPG. Not having the original data has everything to do with what you saidnot having the original data is why Square cannot do a REmake style FF7 in the present day. They don't want to put in the money and effort to make that kind of game only for it to be commercially so-so (REmake sold 1.35 million copies and Shinji Mikami, its director, still called it a commercial failure; the original RE sold 5 million copies, plus 3 million from a director's cut). At that level of budget and effort, SE would be better off business-wise making a new game.
I never disagreed with you that a full-blown 3D, non-fixed-camera remake would cost on the same level of FF15, I stated so on my previous posts. What I am trying to convey is that your idea of an FF7 remake in the same way REmake happened is also not appealing to Square Enix because of development costs that make it financially a bad decision.
BibiMaghoo
Member
Yes, but they are minor things like items mostly. Not big script changes at all. The music was replaced long ago. it is easily the current definitive version of the game.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
IllumiNate
Member
The saddest part of all this is the fact that this means that they havnt even started work on the remake. So we're looking at another 5 years before it could possibly even happen. Square should just start a kickstarter for a full blown remake.
Yes, I do know what the difference between an engine and assets is, lol. I program myself, made some smaller games.
I used the wrong term with "touch up" when I really meant "recreating", which I said several times already, so I don't know why you again brought up the lost-asset problem.
Basically my idea was just "making a new game" with a new engine, new assets, but still with pre-rendered backgrounds and classic world map proportions.
Though, technically I wasn't wrong, as they actually could "touch up" by ripping the old models from retail discs, like they did for FFX/X-2 HD by using a fan-made Model Viewer/Extractor, and use the old models + rigs while improving animations, increasing the meshs' poly-count/density and apply new textures and shaders. However, that would probably be more work than just starting afresh^^
You do know that REmake was build from ground up, right? Models, backgrounds, maps, collision meshs - everything. That's why I mentioned "from ground up" like 10 times, now. SE's having lost the assets doesn't matter in my hypothetical scenario, where they'd decide for the REmake treatment.
Yes, in the end it would mount up to basically making a new game. Never said anything else. Still, it'd cost less than a FFXV-quality remake and might be enough to satisfy most fans' needs.
Now, would FFVIIR sell well in general? I've always had my doubts. Definitely a few millions less than the original and probably not more than FFXIII at the very best.
Whatever. It was just an idea. We'll see what they'll do
You don't understand how any of this works, I'm afraid. The decision to fund a new Dragon Quest or a Final Fantasy remake is not a binary one. Dragon Quest is developed by Yuji Horii and his team; their work has nothing to do with what's going on in the Final Fantasy realm. The team to work on a FFVII remake would come from the FF side exclusively and would not have any impact on what Armor Project is doing, budget-wise, manpower-wise or otherwise.
Trouble is, all your arguments are coming just as much "from the heart" as mine allegedly are. You have no more grounds for your argument than I do, which is simple common sense and an observation of the widespread and persistent demand for a FFVII remake within and without the gaming community. You're saying "nuh uh, it won't sell that much." I say you're wrong. That's kind of it.
Also, you can't really think 3 generations are a long time in this space; surely you have more awareness of the gaming world than that. We're seeing remakes and remasters of games from around that span all the time, most of which don't have the cachet of FFVII. You can dismiss the importance, popularity and staying power of the game all you like, but again, you're wrong.
SkullHydra
Member
I thought I'd be over this by now, but I'm still ticked. It's not right.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Maybe there will never be a remake ever.
What is it about this idea - completely pulled out of the ass of the FF fanbase - that makes people think a remake is inevitable?
The work for it would be AAA massive, the sales would be modest. Financially it's not inevitable at all.
Astral Dog
Member
poor SE, misunderstood, clearly nobody wants to do a true remake by now.
we should accept that.
we should accept that.
I wouldn't be so sure about sales being modest. FFVII will probably end up as the FF game with the biggest fan base, as I see it as the FF where people gets more nostalgic and the fact that it really pushed the Playstation the most back in the day. I'm sure that most, if not all, FFVII fans will be there at the HD remake release, as well as some new fans who have PS4 right now.
But I agree that a remake of FFVII is pretty much impossible right now given the state of SE as is. The key people behind FFVII are no longer there, and their development time for their games has just been damn awful.
I'd say we may still see Conker one day. This makes me think a FFVII remake is never coming.
Don't know about Yamaha, but the larger of the two included SoundBlaster soundfont sounded pretty much like the PSX version, including vocals.I did, but you still don't get the awesome choir lyrics
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
In the best case scenario, it sells as much as an FF mainline title. Maybe it sells a little more? Let's just go wild here and assume that it completely recaptures the nostalgia market. The buzz goes beyond the traditional FF fanbase and picks up many new customers who have heard the hype. Let's just say it sells 30% more than the usual mainline FF (which is a generous fantasy).
It still takes an AAA budget. It's a complete new game project because 0% of the original game is reuseable. Worse yet, it's a new game that is beholden to an old game design. You can't cut out anything - you are slavishly mandated to make an incredibly large game with today's demanding graphical standards. It would be a massive development. One of Square largest. It could be bigger than FFXV's development.
And then let's imagine that it could sell worse than a mainline FF game. It's not new mainstream hotness like it needs to be, it's just another port/remake that people outside a dedicated fanbase ignore as usual. It could go that way.
The point being: the financials don't mandate this game's existence. It's not a "make millions of dollars free" card. It's actually a recipie for a gigantic money sink that might make "ok" money back - at best. They could get lucky? But there are no guarantees of massive returns.
The reason to make this game is not because it prints money. It won't. You may want to make this for reasons of giving Square's flagship series prestige and to build the brand. Or you may want to do this instead of a mainline entry in order to make what is essntially a mainline entry with a built in audience.
But to all those saying "Square doesn't want money. Why are they so dumb" etc... they haven't thought this through. Making it would be a risk, not a cash-in.
Gambit 1138
Banned
I like how they had him come up as if it was a MAJOR announcement. It should have just been a casual mention while talking about something else or a blog post. Jesus Christ.
Gambit 1138
Banned
I'm probably going to end up buying it since I never finished FF7 and would like a copy on my PS4
Maybe if everyone buys it and it sells like crazy it will convince them to do the full HD remake? :/
Maybe if everyone buys it and it sells like crazy it will convince them to do the full HD remake? :/
funkystudent
Member
Kind of funny this got stage time but type 0 got zero when it was announced at e3.
Square is confrence poison most of the time. Don't know why Sony keeps letting them away with it. Its not like they are making big exclusives for them.
I don't expect good things. The game wasn't particularly good and it hasn't aged well at all.
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I disagree, here me out here. You don't need a triple A budget, honestly even if you used the engine of Crisis Core I don't think many people would be that unhappy. The audience is built in but there are many people who haven't played 7 that would want to first experience it with the remake. I would argue more people would buy this than any of the 13 sequels.
I'm just saying, expecting a 15 like remake is silly. But keeping realistic expectations for what square can do is what most fans actually want.
Wyndstryker
Member
FF7 Tech Demo's + the number of FF7 spinoffs, and the fact that it's one of the most popular FF's in the franchise leads to the constant speculation of a remake.
I kind of doubt it. But guess people could always hope
Americanmushroom
Banned
Did Verendus comment on this?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
1. I do think fans are expecting a modern looking remake. I think you're smart for having adjusted expectations... but I don't think others are. They want VII to look new and modern again.
And putting aside "what fans want"... some primitive levels of graphics are just untennable these days, unless you're putting it out on 3DS or something. Even iOS demands an HD level graphical fidelity at this point. You can't just release a Crisis Core looking game on modern platforms... it would have to be like the Type-0 HD release at the least, and if you're making a game like that from scratch... well, you're going to aim for HD assets.
2. A scaled back remake is more doable. But still a massive undertaking. All of those unique environments in VII have to be re-done (looking better than they did back then of course). It doesn't matter whether that's pre-rendered CGI (which is so out of favor these days), or real-time graphics at any level - that's a giant budget game.
There is no way to make FFVII again for free, or even for cheap. There is just no way around it. It's a AAA game whether you want it to be or not.
The more you really think this through... the more you realize that the most realistic thing you can do is.... put the PC version out on PS4
Naughty_Doge
Member
Still can't believe this happened, and I'm not even a FF fan.
Cornbread78
Member
Is it me, or does SE really hate Sony lately, from this to TR, aarrgghh
Agree on many of the points, but in regards to the budget though, while it's sure to eat up a very large chunk of money to develop, it's no different than developing FFVII for the first time before. FFVII had a budget of around $45M in mid 90's, and that was huge at that time. If it's valued right now it could possibly be just a little less than $100M due to inflation. And it was a game built entirely from scratch. New system, new programming, new character and world designs, new scripts, new music composition...everything was new. And they certainly enjoyed the huge success of it the most even if it's not the best-selling FF.
With an HD remake, while they will make everything again from scratch, at least they now have clear templates that won't bloat the expenses like before. The story is there, battle system can just simply be refined, they can just rearrange the music since they own them, cinematics and character models could be similar to Advent Children, they can just use an established engine instead of building a new one. I'm sure it won't cost the same or higher than the one they spend building FFXV at least.
friskykillface
Banned
The dislikes on the official video on YouTube is like 10k plus lol
Hmmmmm safe to say this won't ever be on PS+ the first year , I will only spend $10 max so I'll wait for a sale
But yeah, I'm still pissed and why not release this month, I would have bought it instantly since I'm off school
Hmmmmm safe to say this won't ever be on PS+ the first year , I will only spend $10 max so I'll wait for a sale
But yeah, I'm still pissed and why not release this month, I would have bought it instantly since I'm off school
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