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Marvel's Daredevil S2 *Spoiler Thread* |OT| Elektra Boogaloo - March 18th on Netflix

The problem I have with DD is t even due to DD as a show, spoiler for Jessica Jones,
is because they are in the same place as bloody Killgrave that would just tell them to fuck of and he would rule the city

Silly yes I know :)

Killgrave never wanted that; he just wanted Jessica. That's what made him so terrifying; he could have absolute power, but instead opts to go after one girl with an obsessive fury.
 
JESUS CHRIST, EPISODE 8.

Girl comes outtta fuckin' nowhere and slices this Ninja kid's throat open like she's carving a christmas ham. And then that "Do you still want me?"

Christ, now we know where the gore budget went this season..
 

Phyranion

Member
Just finished the season, and it was soooooo cool. I feel like they did everything right. I hope Kingpin will return next season and take back the city! :D
 

Blues1990

Member
Just finished the season, and it was soooooo cool. I feel like they did everything right. I hope Kingpin will return next season and take back the city! :D

I'm kind of hoping for an adaptation of Born Again for Season 4, once Fisk gains control of the city and has everything under his thumb in a future Season 3.
 

kiguel182

Member
Finished watching this today.

Everything with the Punisher was great, better than Season 1 stuff. The kingpin scenes were also stellar stuff.

Elektra as a character was another highlight but her storyline just didn't connect with me.

Also, I still don't like the actor playing Daredevil and I liked him less this season. A Punisher only show would be pretty great as far as I'm concerned.
 

Showaddy

Member
Count me in as another guy who thought Frank was going to mow down all the rooftop ninjas with the mini-gun. He doesn't even save DD in the end; just offs two ninjas that Matt could have handled on his own. I suppose they didn't want viewers to diminish DD and perceive Frank's violent methods as superior.

I'd bet good money there's a deleted scene of Frank mowing them down somewhere. Daredevil saying that there's more ninjas then he can count and then when they actually fight them there's like...12 tops?

Feels like the scene where Punisher is walking away from his burning house with the mini-gun was supposed to lead into the fight.
 

teiresias

Member
I'm up to Episode 10 and am really digging the mystery behind The Hand stuff more than the procedural cover up stuff having to do with the Punisher. I have no idea about the history of The Hand from the comics so this is all new territory for me. However, one thing that is urking me is Matt's complete disbelief in the whole Hand business, and in particular his look at disbelief at Nobu at the end of E9 and his reaction to the "There is no such thing as death" line. I mean, ostensibly this is a universe where a guy runs around with a magic hammer and there was a giant battle in NY with space aliens. At this point why would you disbelieve anything?
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...c-universe-keeps-failing-asian-americans.html

Arthur Chu just wrote an article criticizing the Asian stereotyping in DD Season 2.

I gotta say, I agree with him and the Elektra/Hand ninja stuff is pretty cringeworthy in handling Asian culture as exotic and otherworldly while everything else in the show is handled in a gritty and realistic manner.

I disagree about the sexism with Elektra and how she's made as a titilating sex symbol. She had one sex scene in the whole season during a flashback after a sparring session. She even tells Matt "no sex" during the diner scene, Elektra was great at first. It just kind of went downward during the whole "she's the black sky and inherently evil" thing. Especially after she slit the assassins throat right after she hesitated killing someone when Matt asked her to in the sinkhole.

Which brings me to the "evil Asian" thing which I do agree with. But it was weird how they introduced this weird subplot with the hand assassin that was in Matt's apartment. With him being a kid and how Matt knows he's afraid by hearing his heartbeat. It hinted that the assassins might not be willing participants for The Hand which was interesting. But the subplot is never picked up again and just dropped.

It was weird how they just went "fuck it" with that and kill all the ninjas anyways.

I agree that they have the Asians doing the most evil shit though. From Madame Cho blinding people and using them as suicide bombers in S1.
merchant.png

To the Hand kidnapping kids and using them for some type of blood transfusion thing.
 

DeathoftheEndless

Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
I just finished the second season and let's get the most important thing out of the way first: what is the deal with the coffee? After the first couple of times the popular beverage is brought up, I'm like "oh, that must have been some kind of inside joke about how the characters keep up with their hectic lifestyles". But then (and I am not exaggerating) it is mentioned in most, if not all, of the episodes this season. "Hey Matt, you want a coffee?" "Sorry Foggy, I owe you a coffee" "Miss, keep the coffee coming" You know what...no. Fuck your coffee!

Other than the constant bitter caffeinated drink references, I thought the season was pretty damn good.

Joe Bernthal's performance as Frank Castle was a man possessed. You can't take your eyes off of him. He's scary as hell when he's pissed off...and he's pissed off a lot. And Bernthal also nails the emotional moments. The scene in the graveyard nearly had me in tears. His rapport with Karen is touching and makes you genuinely feel for this psychopath. This is by-far the best adaptation of The Punisher to light up a screen.

The other standout this season surprised me. Foggy Nelson kicks a lot of ass. I thought he was one of the weaker aspects of the first season, but here he is probably the biggest hero. He finally stands up for himself and puts the law firm on his back during the Castle trial. Foggy doesn't put up with Matt's shit anymore and tries to find his own happiness. His job offer made me proud. He deserves it.

I've seen some other people online turning up their nose at Matt Murdock and, to be fair, he makes some stupid decisions, but I think he is still an admirable character. He's wishy washy on his no-killing policy, messes up the court case big time, and abandons his friends, but I'm still rooting for the guy. I can't blame him for being erratic because he gets beaten to a pulp by ninjas every night. He fights as Daredevil to protect the people he cares about and even complete strangers. I got emotional when Stick tells Elektra that Matt came to save her, not him. His brief romance with Karen is very sweet and I was grinning like an idiot throughout. I know its not going to happen, but I want them to be happy dammit.

Karen is still a strong character, even if she gets into more shit than Lois Lane. I wasn't entirely convinced by her fascination with the good side of Frank Castle, but, like Foggy, it was cool to have her become independent. I was so pumped when Matt revealed he was Daredevil, but that makes me very worried about her life expectancy.

Elektra was pretty good. Like a lot of the storylines near the end of the season, her being the "chosen one" was dumb and felt rushed. Her sacrifice was a satisfying conclusion to her arc, but she won't be dead for long.

The action scenes this season were still fantastic and better than most American shows and movies. Its been a while since the first season, but I felt like the fights in this one had higher highs and lower lows. A lot of the fights take place in oppressively dark locations, which bothered me a bit. The choreography was really good, which makes it all the more confusing why they tried to hide it.

Overall, it was a strong season, even though some of the storylines didn't end well. Clancy Brown being evil was weird and I'm not entirely sure what the ninjas were doing. There's some good setup for next season and the wait will feel very long.

Oh and I'm 99% sure we are getting a take on Born Again in season three. They hinted at it multiple times. Obviously, Karen isn't going to be a strung-out prostitute (sorry, Frank Miller) and hopefully Matt Murdock won't become a ranting and raving homeless man, but everything else points in that direction.
 

hydruxo

Member
As much as I enjoyed S2, I honestly feel like I mainly kept watching because of Jon Bernthal's performance. He was fucking phenomenal.
 

Moff

Member
Finished this today
I don't really like superheroes a lot, especially not daredevil, but that was a very entertaining season of tv, especially the punisher arc.
I was so glad when sticks killed nobu in the end, because he and the hand were a very poor villain, and I am afraid they are still here to stay, sadly.

I do wonder why nobu simply gave up after he stabbed her if they have a ressurrection machine, I mean he of all should have known that.
 
Finished this today
I don't really like superheroes a lot, especially not daredevil, but that was a very entertaining season of tv, especially the punisher arc.
I was so glad when sticks killed nobu in the end, because he and the hand were a very poor villain, and I am afraid they are still here to stay, sadly.

I do wonder why nobu simply gave up after he stabbed her if they have a ressurrection machine, I mean he of all should have known that.
i hope nobu is done for good. i didn't really like that twist, but i think the hand & elektra are what will be the plot setup for defenders season 1. this war is bigger than daredevil, so like he said in court, we need heroes. a team of them.
 

TheJoRu

Member
Loved season 1, but felt this was a bit of a letdown. The Punisher had several good scenes, but ultimately for me it was once again Wilson Fisk who provided the absolute best moments. Overall I think it started off well, then in the middle as the Punisher-stuff started to reach its peak quality they introduced Elektra and things slowly started to fall apart.

In season 1 I always enjoyed the chemistry between Matt, Foggy and Karen, and while I wouldn't want their relationships to be without tension I just didn't like how they so quickly and ruthlessly disbanded them and let it end on this unfriendly note. I do hope this changes in the future, because Matt, Foggy and Karen doing law stuff together is some of my favourite parts of the show. Matt just doing Daredevil-stuff gets tiresome after a while; you need those scenes at Josie's or at the Nelson & Murdock-office too.

I think most people have already described well what also consitutes my problems with the Black Sky-stuff; I just found it to be completely uninteresting and uninvolving. Elektra's actress is fine, but I don't particularly buy her relationship with Matt, and for me the otherwise extremely likeable Matt comes off as even more of a douche than probably intended by ditching his friends (and possible girlfriend) for her and the dull war she and Stick are invested in that I don't give a shit about. Stick is fine for those flashback-scenes to chronicle Matt's or Elektra's past, but I couldn't care less about whatever ninjas he's waging war against.

It was still good, don't get me wrong. I just sorely missed the quieter and grounded moments of season 1 in the second half, like the recurring talks between Matt and Father Lantom for example. And of course I miss having Kingpin as a major villain, though I at the same time acknowledge that having too much of him after a full season of it could easily become dull after a while.
 
I don't think he's broke. I think he still has money from his father, because there is no other way he could afford that apartment.

TV shows almost never depict realistically affordable living spaces for their characters, so it wouldn't surprise me if Matt was intended to be poor despite living there.
 

jackdoe

Member
TV shows almost never depict realistically affordable living spaces for their characters, so it wouldn't surprise me if Matt was intended to be poor despite living there.
Matt's has very, very expensive tastes in food, furniture, and clothing and has to constantly buy new furniture and remodel his apartment. If they intended for him to be poor, the showrunners are doing a pretty bad job of it.
 
I don't think he's broke. I think he still has money from his father, because there is no other way he could afford that apartment.
okay maybe not broke but is his career as a lawyer always supposed to suck? i thought eventually he was supposed to be one of the most high profile lawyers in the city.
TV shows almost never depict realistically affordable living spaces for their characters, so it wouldn't surprise me if Matt was intended to be poor despite living there.
indeed. the cost of living in NYC is unreal. karen page in the pilot episode "i don't have any money." how and what the fuck are you doing there then?
 
TV shows almost never depict realistically affordable living spaces for their characters, so it wouldn't surprise me if Matt was intended to be poor despite living there.

That space in NYC is ridiculous. They could have given him a Karen size apartment if they ment to convey that.
 
WarZone was awesome.
I'd be ok with her directing a Punisher series, but the tone of that movie was very different (basically a dark comedy) than the Netflix show.

yeah I love the movie too. but it's completely different from this show's punisher tone more or less.

still it would be tight if they got her on board to direct a few episodes.

she's only gotten small tv work since then for like arrow and supergirl.
 

Sean C

Member
That space in NYC is ridiculous. They could have given him a Karen size apartment if they ment to convey that.
A Karen-sized apartment wouldn't offer enough room to set as many scenes as the show sets in it, particularly when there are several characters and/or fight scenes.

It's like the perennial "Monica's apartment on Friends is way too big" topic -- yes, it is, but it needs to be a big space to meet the demands of the show.
 
A Karen-sized apartment wouldn't offer enough room to set as many scenes as the show sets in it, particularly when there are several characters and/or fight scenes.

It's like the perennial "Monica's apartment on Friends is way too big" topic -- yes, it is, but it needs to be a big space to meet the demands of the show.

If we're meant to infer that Matt is poor and isn't living off his fathers money, then the apartment is more far fetched then undead ninjas.
 

Fathead

Member
I don't think he's broke. I think he still has money from his father, because there is no other way he could afford that apartment.

Didnt they establish in season 1 that he's getting the apartment for almost nothing because of the sign across the street that is so bright?
 
Didnt they establish in season 1 that he's getting the apartment for almost nothing because of the sign across the street that is so bright?
he also said to stick, "do you have any idea how much I pay in rent?!"

by the way, 2 seasons in now...are we still hoping on a blu-ray release for this mothafucker?
 

jph139

Member
So, yeah, finished the season and... definitely a step down from the first season.

The Punisher half was perfect - Bernthal IS the Punisher. There's a ton of different dimensions to the character - psycho spree-killer, soldier at war, grieving father - and usually they just hone in one one of them. But they successfully integrated all of them to make a complex, believable character. I'm not a fan of the character as a rule, but man, if they DON'T give him a show, it'll be a goddamn travesty.

The Elektra half, though... man. Rough stuff. The actual character I loved - great casting. She just exuded sex, and violence, and adrenaline, and fun. A perfect foil to Matt. It's when they brought in Stick, and the Hand, and all the mysticism bullshit... like, I understand why they did it. It's such an integral part to the Daredevil mythos. But it's just so goddamn hokey. And the whole destiny, born to be a monster, eternal war, ugh - cliche and overwrought. It really tanked the back end of the season for me.

The action was great, the character drama with Matt was great. I love seeing characters get torn apart by their various commitments, and I love that they sealed the deal here - like, I figure the band will get back together at some point, but the season ended with Nelson & Murdock disbanded, and that's good enough for me. In fact, Matt's life is kind of in shambles by the end of everything. Elektra dead. Friends alienated. No job. Can't wait to see where they take it next season.

So I figure, for future seasons, they still need: Elektra's return, Kingpin's return, Bullseye's arrival, Born Again. That's at least two seasons worth of material. And after that they can delve into the post-Miller stuff. God, so much good Daredevil to adapt...
 

Solo

Member
I think I may have liked S2 more than S1, if only for Jon Bernthal's turn as Punisher. Amazing, electric performance and probably my favorite comic book casting in a very long time. He NEEDS his own show.
 

Mediking

Member
Just finished.....

The Punisher stuff was AMAZING. I literally loved every scene Jon was in. Jon was amazing as Frank Castle.

The brief Kingpin scenes was also really good.

The fight scenes was good and the Punisher's savage and powerful way of fighting is just breath-taking.

Elektra.... she....well...... she's a big character but she was in the spotlight for a little too long.

Karen was AMAZING. The part where she defended the Punisher was awesome.

Foggy.... it's time to go. It's great he can stand on his own two feet but I'm kinda getting tired of his character. He wasn't as likable as in Season 1.

Rosario Dawson is my waifu!!!!

Stich was top notch.

And of course... Charlie Cox still impresses me as DareDevil.
 

Disgraced

Member
  • Nobu sucks. His character was good for that fight in S1, because it was sort of surprising. As a big bad he sucks. Somebody higher-up of the Hand should've hired Bullseye to lead them against DD in NYC. Maybe he couldn't be characterized fairly in a season that's already packed, but at least there'd be a big bad with charisma that could be complicated next season.
  • The Punisher was awesome, but I wished he talked less. Jon Bernthal was good and he's been rightly praised for it, I just don't like when the Punisher talks a lot. I prefer him when he's mysterious and vaguely mystical, which he was for a substantial portion of the season. I'd just like it dialed a little bit back outside of monologues.
    Whenever he confided (monologued) to someone: good. When he sincerely argued with DD why brutal murder is okay (the writers and) he made himself look like a psychotic asshole. Obviously, the Punisher is a psychotic asshole and by no means a good guy. But if he's explicitly made to look like one you kind of lose my sympathy and the ambiguity, which isn't a bad thing if you're making him a straight-up villain in the story. The problem is in this he's supposed to be that and more.
  • I would've preferred they save the Hand for next season to be paired with Bullseye, with this season about the Punisher and Kingpin exclusively. This season felt like the two major concurrent plots (Punisher & Hand) were rushed and cramped. They could've had more room to be realized and tied together in two seasons. They didn't even significantly affect each other (besides stressing out the protagonist about going back and forth from the two) until the Hand kidnapped Karen from the other plot and the Punisher also hopped over to shoot some guys.
    Elektra suffered hard from this nonsense.
 

ColdPizza

Banned
Thought this season was just okay...I'll continue watching, but the show has some definite highlights and lowlights that have already been discussed here.

I love Claire and the Punisher...but honestly, I can't stand Karen or Foggy.

Also love the newspaper guy.

Agreed on Nobu...was cool in his ninja getup last year but this year was meh.
 

Tuffty

Member
I've a question but when the Blacksmith has Karen in the car, she turns on the radio and a song plays. I assume that's a hidden message from the Punisher to Karen to let her know she will be ok, but what was the song and how was Karen able to make the connection? Did Frank mention his favourite music at some point?
 

jph139

Member
I've a question but when the Blacksmith has Karen in the car, she turns on the radio and a song plays. I assume that's a hidden message from the Punisher to Karen to let her know she will be ok, but what was the song and how was Karen able to make the connection? Did Frank mention his favourite music at some point?

It was playing when he picked her up to go to the diner - he talks about singing it with his kids.
 
My fleeting thoughta:

Guys I love the show but Karen is such a bad actress.

Elektra is awesome and amazing. And hot <3 but a zombie electra in future sounds generic. Matt will be trying to convince her. Ugh.

Karen is bad.

Nobu doesnt deserve to be the final boss, especially after Wilson Fisk's imposing, fearsome madness of S1.

I was rooting for Matt and Karen to break up and get it on with Claire/Elektra. Woo!

Punisher is batshit bad ass motherfucker from hell. Dude massacres Cell Block D with nothing but bare hands and shiv. And a spanner. That last scene of him standing on the tower: chills! Seeya round red. Also some very good acting from Jon Bernthal. Excellent casting.

Foggy is barely tolerable. He needs to work on delivery more.

Stick is cool mofo. But sometimes I feel like Matt takes it way overboard with him. Ok you dont like the guy but jeez stop with the punches and tying up.

Any chance of Karen's actress being switched for S3?
 

Falchion

Member
Just finished and I'm so glad it ended with him revealing his identity to Karen. I know it comes with the superhero territory, but all the problems caused by Matt not being able to balance both his identities with her was really grating to me. Can't wait to see how this thread plays out.
 
I've a question but when the Blacksmith has Karen in the car, she turns on the radio and a song plays. I assume that's a hidden message from the Punisher to Karen to let her know she will be ok, but what was the song and how was Karen able to make the connection? Did Frank mention his favourite music at some point?

Did you not watch the episode before that? The song was playing in his car.
 

butalala

Member
Just finished and I'm so glad it ended with him revealing his identity to Karen. I know it comes with the superhero territory, but all the problems caused by Matt not being able to balance both his identities with her was really grating to me. Can't wait to see how this thread plays out.

Agreed, there was a string of 3 or 4 episodes in the middle where a large portion of the tension was the kind of stuff that could be resolved quite easily if the characters would just be honest with each other. I enjoy the fact that there really aren't that many secret identities in the MCU.

Did you not watch the episode before that? The song was playing in his car.

I think that was actually her car. She said that it came with the tapes.
 

Permanently A

Junior Member
Just finished it, good stuff overall but didn't like how Matt abandoned Karen for Elektra. Seems out of character for him.

Also the most hilarious thing was when the Hand calls the Black Sky the Black Sky in the middle of a japanese sentence. Why would an ancient Japanese myth have an English name? lol.
 
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