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Gafia 2: The Bride of Gafia |Mafia OT| One Wedding, Many Funerals

T

Timeaisis

Member
I believe Launch's claim, although I kind of question why he would reveal it today, as scum are now aware it's probably going to be used tonight, but I guess it doesn't really matter.

I do agree tonight's probably the night to do it, since today is a guess for all PRs, anyway. And it might screw up scum night actions, so works for me.
 
F

Fireblend

Banned
So, a thought: if scum is imbalanced in terms of how many of them are sitting on each table and the night kill command or other powers are submitted with a seat code rather than a name, they may want to use their powers on the table with less of them, in order to avoid hitting themselves, since they don't know which table Launch targeted
 
R

roytheone

Member
Fireblend said:
So, a thought: if scum is imbalanced in terms of how many of them are sitting on each table and the night kill command or other powers are submitted with a seat code rather than a name, they may want to use their powers on the table with less of them, in order to avoid hitting themselves, since they don't know which table Launch targeted
Click to expand...

Possible, but we don't know if scum is balanced between tables or not, and we could get into a WIFOY Situation if we use that to determine lynch candidates.
 
T

Terrabyte20xx

Junior Wrestlemania XXX Champion
Launch's role is... Interesting. It definitely has potential to screw both town and scum over.

I do wonder, however, why it's a day command,and a private one at that.
 
R

roytheone

Member
Terrabyte20xx said:
Launch's role is... Interesting. It definitely has potential to screw both town and scum over.

I do wonder, however, why it's a day command,and a private one at that.
Click to expand...

Maybe there is a role that absolutely need to know the table layout for it to work? So retro would need to get the command during the day so that he can give the new layout immediately at the start of the night to that person.

Private is pretty logical. An open command would confirm his role existing and being activated. It being private gives launch more ways to use it,for example by keeping it a secret. It's why El topo had a private day command in batman.
 
R

roytheone

Member
Well, this game died ridiculously early :(

Now that the launch has explained his power, I think we should start discussing who to lynch. And for that :

Vote: AbsolutBro

The only thing he contributed until now was a very specific role speculation that didn't really added anything of value.
 
X

Xamtheking

Member
roytheone said:
Well, this game died ridiculously early :(

Now that the launch has explained his power, I think we should start discussing who to lynch. And for that :

Vote: AbsolutBro

The only thing he contributed until now was a very specific role speculation that didn't really added anything of value.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't call it dying as much as not having anything earth-shattering happen
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Xamtheking said:
I wouldn't call it dying as much as not having anything earth-shattering happen
Click to expand...

Yeah, we've only had one claim so far.

/s

------------------
THOUGHTS:
-Scrafty didn't answer my question :/
-Launch's role seems a bit swingy if he can indeed make scum kill themselves. If we assume two scum per table and killing scum can kill themselves then the chance of that happening is 2/11 * 1/2 or 9%.
-Maybe it can't affect the scum kill.
-Initial reactions to Launch's full claim seemed overwhelmingly positive.
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
roytheone said:
Alright, thanks Launch. One thing I am curious about: you say that if a PR target someone, it will get redirected because the seating arrangement will get switched. Does that mean that for example a cop could still figure out who he got results from by looking at the new arrangement and see who is now sitting on the seat of his original target?
Click to expand...

If my theory is correct on how things work in this game (that there is a rearrange at day start), I think that my ability comes in as an interim between the Day 1 arrangement and Day 2 arrangement, as in Day 1 arrangement > ability rearrange > Day 2 start rearrange. I don't think it will be visible at all to anyone except Retro (or the co-mods). I don't know for sure if there's going to be a rearrange at the start of Day 2, but I think we're going to know more when that comes. However, if it is the case that we wake up on Day 3 and there was no rearrange, then it was my ability that rearranged the seats.

Fireblend said:
Hmmm, that's very useful info, Launch. It's confirmation that PR actions are affected by the seating arrangement, which was pretty obvious but is nice to know. I wonder if (at least most) night actions are submitted with a seat "code" rather than with player names, in which case PRs that switch people between seats are pretty powerful, and I actually think using yours D1 was a good move since as you say it could be pretty negative for town if we didn't know beforehand.
Click to expand...

Ty4on said:
That seems plausible. Especially when it worked like that in Dangan. There are no obvious places for a commuter to go though.

Launch: Does your role PM or clarifications support this theory?
Click to expand...

I would expect that the commands are still written with the player names as targets, but who is actually in that seat could be different. That's all I can gather from how my role is written, but yes, that's how it worked in Dangan.

Xamtheking said:
Launch, is it X-shot or once per day?
Click to expand...

One shot. However, like I said, given the limitations of this particular ability, I would not be surprised if there is another player who has the same ability.

Fireblend said:
So, a thought: if scum is imbalanced in terms of how many of them are sitting on each table and the night kill command or other powers are submitted with a seat code rather than a name, they may want to use their powers on the table with less of them, in order to avoid hitting themselves, since they don't know which table Launch targeted
Click to expand...

That is correct. I think they'll probably attempt this. The ball's in their court, and even then that strategy may backfire on them.
 
R

roytheone

Member
Ty4on said:
Yeah, we've only had one claim so far.

/s

------------------
THOUGHTS:
-Scrafty didn't answer my question :/
-Launch's role seems a bit swingy if he can indeed make scum kill themselves. If we assume two scum per table and killing scum can kill themselves then the chance of that happening is 2/11 * 1/2 or 9%.
-Maybe it can't affect the scum kill.
-Initial reactions to Launch's full claim seemed overwhelmingly positive.
Click to expand...

Eh, it's only one shot and while he switches a lot of people at once, he has little control over it. I don't see this power to be much more powerful then let's say an ordinary switcher that can pick his targets.
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
I'm gonna give Launch the benefit of the doubt. If he's telling the truth, then his ability could be a pretty big asset for town.
Click to expand...

I think I've found a suitable target for today.

VOTE: Bronx-Man

Hi friend. Can I ask why you planned on giving me the benefit of the doubt before even hearing my full claim? :)
 
C

CzarTim

Member
Why bot just claim first thing tomorrow lol

GAF has been down for me all day. Only mobile is working.

Nin didn't answer my question. Who's scum?
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Tim, come on. It should be obvious.

1) give town something to talk about day 1
2) create an uncertain situation for scum where they argue over how to use their kill, try to combat my intentions, etc.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
LaunchpadMcQ said:
If my theory is correct on how things work in this game (that there is a rearrange at day start), I think that my ability comes in as an interim between the Day 1 arrangement and Day 2 arrangement, as in Day 1 arrangement > ability rearrange > Day 2 start rearrange. I don't think it will be visible at all to anyone except Retro (or the co-mods). I don't know for sure if there's going to be a rearrange at the start of Day 2, but I think we're going to know more when that comes. However, if it is the case that we wake up on Day 3 and there was no rearrange, then it was my ability that rearranged the seats.
Click to expand...

What makes you think there's a rearrangement on top of your rearrangement?
I don't think it'll be hard to see if that's the case tomorrow. Your power only affects one table.
 
K

Kalor

Member
I skimmed through the thread again and a couple of people stick out. Some for low activity (AbsolutBro and RobotNinjaHornets) and then Xam for posting a bunch of fluff with the exception of one post. Though in terms of a vote candidate none of them seem suitable, at least for today.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
Kalor said:
I skimmed through the thread again and a couple of people stick out. Some for low activity (AbsolutBro and RobotNinjaHornets) and then Xam for posting a bunch of fluff with the exception of one post. Though in terms of a vote candidate none of them seem suitable, at least for today.
Click to expand...

What qualities would you like to see in a "vote candidate"?
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Ty4on said:
What makes you think there's a rearrangement on top of your rearrangement?
I don't think it'll be hard to see if that's the case tomorrow. Your power only affects one table.
Click to expand...

Really, I'm just guessing here. However, since my switching is the only kind that will affect ability targets, then I didn't think it was unreasonable to rule out that there will be a rearrangement in the morning. As it stands, you're correct - we'll be able to see if that is the case if both tables have been randomized. It also hides the fact that my ability even happened unless PRs step forward to confirm it, which is not ideal.

Ty4on said:
What qualities would you like to see in a "vote candidate"?
Click to expand...

I've been looking at eagerness to follow my lead, personally, or how people have pushed me like Salva when I first softclaimed.
 
C

CzarTim

Member
I'm looking at people attempting to control the conversation on the map mechanic. It's the sort of thing the scum team would want to do early since they're presumably at an information advantage.
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Bronx-Man said:
My mistake for having some hope, I guess.
Click to expand...

I can't tell if this is naivety, since I'm assuming if you're here you've been in at least one game of mafia, but it's pretty obvious the only ones who should be able to blindly accept drip fed roleclaims at face value would be mafia because they know who is on their team.

So, my question is: are you just being naive or do you believe you have nothing to fear?
 
T

Ty4on

Member
LaunchpadMcQ said:
Really, I'm just guessing here. However, since my switching is the only kind that will affect ability targets, then I didn't think it was unreasonable to rule out that there will be a rearrangement in the morning. As it stands, you're correct - we'll be able to see if that is the case if both tables have been randomized. It also hides the fact that my ability even happened unless PRs step forward to confirm it, which is not ideal.
Click to expand...

How would normal PRs know anything about a second switching?
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Ty4on said:
How would normal PRs know anything about a second switching?
Click to expand...

That's not what I meant.

Imagine for a moment, you have a clause in your role PM that says something to the effect of "you can only target players at your table" and you were a roleblocker. I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that someone is in this position. If nothing ever changed, for example if I was killed before I could use my ability, then the pool of players that you can use the roleblocking ability on will remain at half the players and never change.

In that case, the only two conclusions one can make are:

1) there is another mechanism for changing the arrangements, or
2) there are redundant roles.

So, what I'm thinking is we start at the current arrangement. Once Night 1 starts, my ability randomizes the arrangement of one of the tables. Only Retro knows what this new random arrangement is. All the night actions are carried out based on this new arrangement. Then, at Day 2 start, there is another rearrangment for the new day. Night actions have already taken place, so it won't affect that. It'll just affect Night 2 actions with similar clauses to the one I mentioned (can only target at your table, etc.).
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
What can you guys tell me about Bronx-Man? He's a new player to me. I don't really know his level of experience, but he's been acting really suspicious towards me thus far.
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
LaunchpadMcQ said:
That's not what I meant.

Imagine for a moment, you have a clause in your role PM that says something to the effect of "you can only target players at your table" and you were a roleblocker. I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that someone is in this position. If nothing ever changed, for example if I was killed before I could use my ability, then the pool of players that you can use the roleblocking ability on will remain at half the players and never change.

In that case, the only two conclusions one can make are:

1) there is another mechanism for changing the arrangements, or
2) there are redundant roles.

So, what I'm thinking is we start at the current arrangement. Once Night 1 starts, my ability randomizes the arrangement of one of the tables. Only Retro knows what this new random arrangement is. All the night actions are carried out based on this new arrangement. Then, at Day 2 start, there is another rearrangment for the new day. Night actions have already taken place, so it won't affect that. It'll just affect Night 2 actions with similar clauses to the one I mentioned (can only target at your table, etc.).
Click to expand...

Ok. So if I'm understanding your role correctly, you randomize the targets before they happen - so basically a full-table-random-switcher type thing. I'm really confused how this is something beneficial to town (though, to be fair, I've put weird-ass roles for town in my games before), considering while it may screw up a kill - say scum targets the cop...maybe they only kill the doctor now (lol), it will also mess up town roles as well.

That's not say I don't blame you. D1 is definitely the time to use this role (or, honestly, not at all unless threatened), considering how considerably random the outcome sounds like it will be.
 
O

Ourobolus

Banned
LaunchpadMcQ said:
What can you guys tell me about Bronx-Man? He's a new player to me. I don't really know his level of experience, but he's been acting really suspicious towards me thus far.
Click to expand...

My experience with him is limited to the Matrix game, and while he was lynched D1 by someone who will remain nameless, his gut reads during that game were pretty on point.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
LaunchpadMcQ said:
That's not what I meant.

Imagine for a moment, you have a clause in your role PM that says something to the effect of "you can only target players at your table" and you were a roleblocker. I think it's a pretty reasonable expectation that someone is in this position. If nothing ever changed, for example if I was killed before I could use my ability, then the pool of players that you can use the roleblocking ability on will remain at half the players and never change.

In that case, the only two conclusions one can make are:

1) there is another mechanism for changing the arrangements, or
2) there are redundant roles.

So, what I'm thinking is we start at the current arrangement. Once Night 1 starts, my ability randomizes the arrangement of one of the tables. Only Retro knows what this new random arrangement is. All the night actions are carried out based on this new arrangement. Then, at Day 2 start, there is another rearrangment for the new day. Night actions have already taken place, so it won't affect that. It'll just affect Night 2 actions with similar clauses to the one I mentioned (can only target at your table, etc.).
Click to expand...
I was referring to this phrase here.
LaunchpadMcQ said:
It also hides the fact that my ability even happened unless PRs step forward to confirm it, which is not ideal.
Click to expand...
 
L

LaunchpadMcQ

Banned
Ourobolus said:
Ok. So if I'm understanding your role correctly, you randomize the targets before they happen - so basically a full-table-random-switcher type thing. I'm really confused how this is something beneficial to town (though, to be fair, I've put weird-ass roles for town in my games before), considering while it may screw up a kill - say scum targets the cop...maybe they only kill the doctor now (lol), it will also mess up town roles as well.

That's not say I don't blame you. D1 is definitely the time to use this role (or, honestly, not at all unless threatened), considering how considerably random the outcome sounds like it will be.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the gist of it.

Ourobolus said:
My experience with him is limited to the Matrix game, and while he was lynched D1 by someone who will remain nameless, his gut reads during that game were pretty on point.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Doesn't sound like much to go on.

Ty4on said:
I was referring to this phrase here.
Click to expand...

I'm confused, then? Everyone would know about the second switching if we all wake up and we're in different places. :|
 
T

Ty4on

Member
LaunchpadMcQ said:
I'm confused, then? Everyone would know about the second switching if we all wake up and we're in different places. :|
Click to expand...
How would they know about both switches? If there's a big switch on top of yours then your switch should be hidden to virtually everyone.
 
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