Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
some hot garbage right here
Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.
Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
No. No you don't.Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.
Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
But i keep saying, this is a problem too with straight media representation and preset gender roles. It is generally about boxing certain things into check lists instead of being more organic.
Men have to be super macho heterosexual dudes who get the girls, women have to fawn over the guy or be the one invested in emotional dissonance just because she's there. Its a problem there too, and its because of the people running the show and creating a lot of this material.
My main thrust in this thread is that Ellie can truly be whoever ND wants her to be in TLOU 2.
I just am irritated by the viewpoint of some, including the author in the OP, that feels like she HAS to be portrayed in a specific manner or else she would be a waste of potential for whatever perspective your personally invested in, either as an advocate for the LGBT community or against it.
That first scene made me super depressed, so I'd say yes.
I guess a pre-existing relationship wouldn't be bad either. Naughty Dog's amazing at doing that stuff.
I guess I just want to see the beginning of the relationship, like Joel and Ellie. I don't want some random character be introduced out of nowhere in the beginning and right off the bat be the most important person in Ellie's life. Not that it would be bad, I just want to see it come to life, you know what I mean?
Edit: If you're gonna have that be the focus, show us the beginning.
Do you now?Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
There needs to be a Wall of Shame for Dumbass Posts About Diversity. This can go right up with the SJW cucks guy from the Red Dead 2 thread.Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.
Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
I feel like you're asking "why can't gay people have a shittily implemented love story as well?". I don't think anyone likes it when anything is "crammed in" or "doesn't feel natural" in a story. In terms of heterosexual relationship, just look to the Hobbit with that love triangle. "The love interest" is also quite often a hated trope in many movies. The same counts whether it's gay or straight.
So, I mean, if your angle on this is to just have it be represented at any cost, even the ultimate quality of the story, then go right ahead. But I personally react the same way here than if Ellie were to potentially have a heterosexual relationship: As long as it work.
"I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT.
Gigantic reason why I am looking forward to the new God of War. I did not like the QTE sex scenes at all.The same goes for Kratos, which is why i'm glad they are redoing him in a much less dudebro and much more nuanced individual focused on emotional resonance.
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
Ill bring the scarveshey guys
fuck straight people
ghey agenda meeting next tuesday at the pizzeria basement, pass it on
I feel like you're asking "why can't gay people have a shittily implemented love story as well?". I don't think anyone likes it when anything is "crammed in" or "doesn't feel natural" in a story. In terms of heterosexual relationship, just look to the Hobbit with that love triangle. "The love interest" is also quite often a hated trope in many movies. The same counts whether it's gay or straight..
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT.
That wasn't at all what I was saying and if you got that from what I was pointing out, you missed the point.
My point was why people need anything gay-related to have extremely deep detailed explanations of WHY that character's sexuality should be brought up at all when straight characters don't need any explanation to do, say or act the way they want.
I do too, but that doesn't mean I don't call them out. I want then to know how silly that line of thinking is.I'm willing to give people who pull this rhetoric the benefit of the doubt (at first). Like, maybe they really don't get it. They're probably very privileged, and have never had to think much about what it's like to be almost completely unrepresented in media (and especially games). Hopefully this thread can be a learning experience for them.
I understood this reference.hey guys
fuck straight people
ghey agenda meeting next tuesday at the pizzeria basement, pass it on
Came to share my opinion that it doesn't bother me if a video game character is gay or straight as long as the game is fun to play and I get called a homophobe.
Can someone please invent a time machine and take me back to 1998. Now I know how the native americans felt when they saw what the pilgrims did to their great country.
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
Not badThe Last of Us Part II |OT| Now I know how the Native Americans felt
/deadThe Last of Us Part II |OT| Now I know how the Native Americans felt
And my point is that in my opinion, bringing up a heterosexual relationship without any reason to is also a bad way to tell a story.
Also, characters do need an explanation for why they do things, or why they act a certain way. Namely motivation.
It's hilariously bad.top 10 dumb comment of gaf 2016 right here.
i dont even know where ur second sentence was even going.
And my point is that in my opinion, bringing up a heterosexual relationship without any reason to is also a bad way to tell a story.
Thanks for this.
The people pining for 'subtlety" should instead push for normalization of homosexualityand that will happen once it becomes common, not when it's really subtle and easily ignored.
Thanks for sharing that, Jason. Beautiful little story.‏@sapphicgeek
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
That wasn't at all what I was saying and if you got that from what I was pointing out, you missed the point.
My point was why people need anything gay-related to have extremely deep detailed explanations of WHY that character's sexuality should be brought up at all when straight characters don't need any explanation to do, say or act the way they want.
I'm not a fan of when people call out a specific character for stereotypical tendencies, because in doing so they are not acknowledging that people like that do a actually exist in real life. There are gay people that are super effeminate, the voice, the clothing - everything you picture when you think of a pride event; it's a part of expressing their sexuality and what they see as being apart of a community. It's no more unnatural or forced than what we would consider "normal" characteristics. The problem stems from when that's what makes up most of the representation, and skews people's perception towards thinking that everyone under that umbrella term are the same. It's tricky, because I don't know how critical you can be of LGBT portrayals (because they are often accurate), without denying members of the community that lean towards "stereotypes". I don't see much value on attacking individual games for having stereotypical representations, unless they are inherently negative, because those character are true to real life. The problem exists as more of a general trend
And my point is that in my opinion, bringing up a heterosexual relationship without any reason to is also a bad way to tell a story.
Also, characters do need an explanation for why they do things, or why they act a certain way. Namely motivation.
👀To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
You know there are plenty of bigots out there making the gay community feel threatened right? This isn't some "dark ages" shit, it's happening now, every day.
But even still, is this seriously your take away from all this?
Neogaf, the only forum where saying that you dont care if a character is gay or straight gets you labelled as a homophobe.
I'll admit my post mentioned subtlety, but in the context of Naughty Dog avoiding the inevitable homophobic backlash and tirade of hate over it.
Not some personal preference to have Ellie's sexuality hidden because it offends me. I'd like to think there's a difference.
God I hope I'm expressing myself appropriately. This topic can be such a mine field and words get twisted easily.
Yes, how dare queer people get excited (and then upset) over potentially having (and then not having) a queer character in a video game.Mmm that backlash when she ends up with a boyfriend in the game ohhhh. Video game outrage if the character is Bi or was just teenage experimenting.
That's not even what you were trying to argue, lmao. People have offered you countless clarifications, c'mon.Neogaf, the only forum where saying that you dont care if a character is gay or straight gets you labelled as a homophobe.
I'm not a fan of when people call out a specific character for stereotypical tendencies, because in doing so they are not acknowledging that people like that do a actually exist in real life. There are gay people that are super effeminate, the voice, the clothing - everything you picture when you think of a pride event; it's a part of expressing their sexuality and what they see as being apart of a community. It's no more unnatural or forced than what we would consider "normal" characteristics. The problem stems from when that's what makes up most of the representation, and skews people's perception towards thinking that everyone under that umbrella term are the same. It's tricky, because I don't know how critical you can be of LGBT portrayals (because they are often accurate), without denying members of the community that lean towards "stereotypes". I don't see much value on attacking individual games for having stereotypical representations, unless they are inherently negative, because those character are true to real life. The problem exists as more of a general trend
Unless the two characters involved just outright don't have any chemistry, I'm not sure what additional motivation you're looking for.
They aren't brought up without reason though, at least not in TloU and PS3+ era Naughty Dog games. People need relationships and seek them out pretty often even in the worst circumstances. Relationships are crucial when telling stories about people and ignoring that aspect of a character is a flawed approach. Even in something as silly as God of War 1, Kratos' relationship with his family was a large part of the story.
TLoU 1 was filled with relationships, the game even started with a father daughter one. Transitioned to Joel and his partner then focused mainly on Joel and Ellie while also showing the relationship between Joel and his brother. Then you had side characters with interesting relationship dynamics.
If they can tell a decent story they should be able to write a decent gay relationship with motivations. To write a story about a 19 year old and ignore the idea of a romantic relationship, and not even mentioning it, would be odd. Even TLOU1's DLC dealt with it.
You can most assuredly yield the same emotional response with a homosexual couple in a game. And one's sexuality should heavily define who they are and how they convey their behavior through any kind of story material. I say this as a straight white male who considers Moonlight to be the most emotionally-resonant film I've seen all year.Is it rude of me to say that I don't think homosexual relationships in a story can be effectively done exactly like a heterosexual relationship? My view of it is that stories with a heavy romantic element are usually trying to use our feelings of romance to drive some story. If you take that same romance and swap it out for a homosexual romance, I think the majority of people would just not have that emotional reaction that is desired by the storyteller.
That isn't me saying we shouldn't have homosexual relationships in stories. I think we should, and I think those relationships should be meaningful in the story. But I do have my doubts that we will ever have a story so heavily focused on romance as something like Romeo and Juliet with a homosexual couple that will yield the same emotional response from the general public as a heterosexual couple.
Do you think I am thinking about this issue in too simple terms?
Neogaf, the only forum where saying that you dont care if a character is gay or straight gets you labelled as a homophobe.
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
Neogaf, the only forum where saying that you dont care if a character is gay or straight gets you labelled as a homophobe.