some hot garbage right here
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Waypoint: I Hope The Last of Us Part II is Super Gay (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
some hot garbage right here
Ploid 3.0
Member
WhiskerFrisker
Member
No. No you don't.
I thought the "butchy" imagery in the trailer (as described by the Waypoint author) was pretty clear, and knowing where Druckmann stands socially and the themes that Left Behind explored I think it's a near-foregone conclusion that they will be explored again here, whether some people like it or not.
I imagine some folk can't see past "SUPER GAY!" in the headline and start thinking The Birdcage or Priscilla Queen of The Desert, lol.
I imagine some folk can't see past "SUPER GAY!" in the headline and start thinking The Birdcage or Priscilla Queen of The Desert, lol.
I'm not a fan of when people call out a specific character for stereotypical tendencies, because in doing so they are not acknowledging that people like that do a actually exist in real life. There are gay people that are super effeminate, the voice, the clothing - everything you picture when you think of a pride event; it's a part of expressing their sexuality and what they see as being apart of a community. It's no more unnatural or forced than what we would consider "normal" characteristics. The problem stems from when that's what makes up most of the representation, and skews people's perception towards thinking that everyone under that umbrella term are the same. It's tricky, because I don't know how critical you can be of LGBT portrayals (because they are often accurate), without denying members of the community that lean towards "stereotypes". I don't see much value on attacking individual games for having stereotypical representations, unless they are inherently negative, because those character are true to real life. The problem exists as more of a general trend
There are a million ways they could present the relationship. If Ellie is out for revenge because her partner was killed early on (we're still assuming that's the case), you could just as easily spend multiple moments in the game flashing back to "happier days' of the two of them together as she dwells on what she's lost. And that includes the moment the two of them first met. Or she meets someone else along the way, or whatever.
ND are the writers here, and I have faith that however they choose to engage that element of Ellie, it'll be done well.
Inviusx
Member
To much us vs them mentality here. "I want Ellie to be super gay because fuck straight people" is the vibe I got from the OT. Like wtf do you think regular people spend their day walking around persecuting gay people or something?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
It just makes me scratch my head. Is it an American thing?
Galactic Specter
Member
Spoiler: Ellie realizes her real true sexuality and makes love to a crate of wumpa fruits
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Do you now?
You know there are plenty of bigots out there making the gay community feel threatened right? This isn't some "dark ages" shit, it's happening now, every day.
But even still, is this seriously your take away from all this?
Going off of what DedValve said, Donte totally should've been bi in DmC.
There needs to be a Wall of Shame for Dumbass Posts About Diversity. This can go right up with the SJW cucks guy from the Red Dead 2 thread.
Mr_Antimatter
Member
To be fair, people hated it in the hobbit because the two races are suppose to be frosty at best with each other. Legolas and Gimli were the first real friendly duo in an age for those races.
Having a young dwarf fall for a she elf was just wildly out of character. Trying to set it as a love triangle was just nonsensical.
With TLoU, I don't see much an issue, given how little relationships really played out in TLoU 1. Exploring her sexuality could actually be interesting here, given the world she lives in, and the myriad of issues she has to deal with, such as finding someone else who's gay in the middle of a apocalypse, not to mention the ever present threat of rape and pressure to marry and reproduce.
Ellie is, in so many ways, alone. An orphan, the only non-insane infected, and gay woman in a world that is utterly uncaring. Not to mention just because the world is ended, doesn't mean old prejudices have died as well.
CornBurrito
Member
I think that's because you want to believe gay people hate you.
AlexFlame116
Member
Gigantic reason why I am looking forward to the new God of War. I did not like the QTE sex scenes at all.
One day someone will respond to your arguments!
WaffleTaco
Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
What are you talking about?? That is not what is going on here at all.
Glass Rebel
Member
Keep fucking that chicken, mate. Just make sure it's female.
Xamtheking
Member
Ill bring the scarves
That wasn't at all what I was saying and if you got that from what I was pointing out, you missed the point.
My point was why people need anything gay-related to have extremely deep detailed explanations of WHY that character's sexuality should be brought up at all when straight characters don't need any explanation to do, say or act the way they want.
EdibleExplosives
Member
yes, representation is always done as a 'fuck you' to straight people. You figured out the first step of the secret gay society's plan for world domination!
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
How on Earth did you get that vibe from the OT, in either the title or the snippets of the article? I'm honestly curious.
For example, what I saw was the author hoping that, as the reveal did show some (admittedly stereotypical) gay traits in her clothing choice, the imagery, etc....that she hoped Ellie would 'be allowed' to be gay, as it pertains to being a part of her character.
Nowhere did I intuit 'fuck straight people' out of that.
SolidSnakex
Member
If anything telling a story about how a relationship would work in that world would be interesting. Whatever relationship Joel had with Tess seems to have dissolved before the game started, and by the time Ellie and Riley admitted their feeling for one another it was basically over for them. So, we really haven't seen a story told about two characters dealing with a relationship amidst all the crazy shit going on around them.
Heckler456
Banned
And my point is that in my opinion, bringing up a heterosexual relationship without any reason to is also a bad way to tell a story.
Also, characters do need an explanation for why they do things, or why they act a certain way. Namely motivation.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
I do too, but that doesn't mean I don't call them out. I want then to know how silly that line of thinking is.
I understood this reference.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
top 10 dumb comment of gaf 2016 right here.
i dont even know where ur second sentence was even going.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Could you use quotes to illustrate where you thought Danielle said "fuck straight people?" Because the article to me read like she was excited to see a character who doesn't shy away from being a butch lesbian be the protagonist of an huge game? If you can't do that then maybe you might need to rethink how "regular people" might unknowingly be persecuting gay people.
Xamtheking
Member
Not bad
/dead
Unless the two characters involved just outright don't have any chemistry, I'm not sure what additional motivation you're looking for.
WhiskerFrisker
Member
It's hilariously bad.
And that's in a lot of video games, movies and just media in general and that was what I was getting at.
Subpar writing aside, I stand by what I said.
Your opinion is noted though, I agree better writing for relationships is needed on all fronts.
Crankshaft
Member
Mmm that backlash when she ends up with a boyfriend in the game ohhhh. Video game outrage if the character is Bi or was just teenage experimenting.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
I'll admit my post mentioned subtlety, but in the context of Naughty Dog avoiding the inevitable homophobic backlash and tirade of hate over it.
Not some personal preference to have Ellie's sexuality hidden because it offends me. I'd like to think there's a difference.
God I hope I'm expressing myself appropriately. This topic can be such a mine field and words get twisted easily.
Aizo
Banned
Thanks for sharing that, Jason. Beautiful little story.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
Are you just abnormally thick or are you doing this on purpose
Dangansona
Member
I don't think the trailer suggests in any way that this game will be about romance, but it could be cool if that was explored somehow.
Its the same reason why black people can't be the main characters of games or the love interests of other races without being considered pandering by a certain segment of the population.
A lot of ignorant people are out there.
But the situation itself is far more complicated than that, i'll admit.
I understand that there are flamboyantly gay men and butch lesbians out there, just like there are people you'd never know were gay or bi unless they told you.
On the other hand, you can have just as many flamboyant metro men and tomboyish females who are also straight or bi. So in general, i feel like its more of a question of people stamping preset stereotypical identity onto someone's sexual orientation and claiming it is their whole cahracter rather than looking at them as an individual or someone to take on a case by case basis.
The same goes for racial identity to a similar degree.
They aren't brought up without reason though, at least not in TloU and PS3+ era Naughty Dog games. People need relationships and seek them out pretty often even in the worst circumstances. Relationships are crucial when telling stories about people and ignoring that aspect of a character is a flawed approach. Even in something as silly as God of War 1, Kratos' relationship with his family was a large part of the story.
TLoU 1 was filled with relationships, the game even started with a father daughter one. Transitioned to Joel and his partner then focused mainly on Joel and Ellie while also showing the relationship between Joel and his brother. Then you had side characters with interesting relationship dynamics.
If they can tell a decent story they should be able to write a decent gay relationship with motivations. To write a story about a 19 year old and ignore the idea of a romantic relationship, and not even mentioning it, would be odd. Even TLOU1's DLC dealt with it.
👀
Agreed, its not the vibe I got here at all and not only is it not an American thing but in America we just hired the most anti gay vice president in recent history whose life mission is to almost literally kill every single gay person (not including himself, probably).
EDIT: Man I wanted to come into this thread with a level head and a clear voice of reason but now I'm with Waypoint. Niel, make Ellie SUUUUUUUPER gay. 115% gay which is .2 percent more than what most gay people are. Have her kiss a girl. Have her talk in passing about a girl.
Fuck it, go for that NC 17 rating. Have her save a girl then kiss her while she's dying in her arms for extra tears.
-Plasma Reus-
Service guarantees member status
If you really didn't care, you wouldn't feel the need to say it.
I get what you're saying, I do but it's times like this where they should do exactly what they want despite whatever homophobic reception they get.
The game still has a large fanbase and if they keep trying to appease the close minded fools who think the 'gay' is out to get them, we'll keep ending up with subtle, stagnant stories that come to a stand still because the creators can't tell the story to it's full potential like they desire.
Gamers talk about a creators free-will to create the stories and worlds they want, it's really no different in this scenario imo.
Yes, how dare queer people get excited (and then upset) over potentially having (and then not having) a queer character in a video game.
That's not even what you were trying to argue, lmao. People have offered you countless clarifications, c'mon.
Emperor_Uriel
Member
The problem that's more unique to lesbians is that they're often stereotyped with characteristics that are universally positive and would be beneficial for all women to have.
Again, the author mentions "toughness" as a signifier of queer women. If we exist in a society where straight women aren't expected to be just as tough, competent and empowered as their lesbian peers, that's a major problem.
I'm not just coming from the angle of "people expect lesbians to be like Ellie," but also that "people don't expect/want straight women to be like her."
Heckler456
Banned
Is Ellie in a place in her life where she's looking, or even ready for a relationship? Didn't she want to die at the end of TLOU? You know, stuff like that.
If my previous comments were nothing but reiterating "the writing needs to be good", then why do I need to keep repeating myself?
Oh no, I definitely agree, which is why I've said multiple times that if they handle it in the same way that they did in TLOU and the DLC, or even differently yet as good, that I'll be perfectly happy.
UberTag
Member
You can most assuredly yield the same emotional response with a homosexual couple in a game. And one's sexuality should heavily define who they are and how they convey their behavior through any kind of story material. I say this as a straight white male who considers Moonlight to be the most emotionally-resonant film I've seen all year.
I believe Naughty Dog is up to the task of handling this material whichever way they wish to go with it and will applaud them for taking any risks they choose to with Ellie's character.
InviusX, the only poster who doesn't care about if a character is gay or straight so much that they have to tell everyone about it, and then compare themselves to Native Americans.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
but at least now u know how native americans feel right
lotta crossover between the genocide of ur people and the death of ur culture as u know it and being called a fucking moron on a message board imo.