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[FunkyMonk]

An alt-right supporter shot up a mosque a few days ago.

And look how fast much of the media dropped it. Do you reckon it would have been forgotten so fast by all the pearl clutching moderstes here & elsewhere if it was a Muslim who'd shot up a church or a synagogue?

(Note this is not to dismiss atrocities committed against Christians or jews)

 

[jellies_two]

Uh, no? The current racist 'alt-right' movement lacks certain nazi characteristics.

Which ones? I agree though the alt-right isn't so big on Wagner. And I also think they have more than enough Lebensraum for the moment - the mid west has so Much empty space
but apart from that they seem very well matched.

 

[boiled goose]

ISIS dehumanizes jews too. They are no nazis. It takes more to be a nazi than dehumanizing jews.

When you start arguing semantics, you have probably already lost the substantive discussion.

 

[Screaming Meat]

ISIS dehumanizes jews too. They are no nazis. It takes more to be a nazi than dehumanizing jews.

They come under the catch-all banner of extremists and should be treated with equal contempt.

 

[broncobuster]

Two guys sitting in a sauna. One says "it's like a sauna in here." The other argues it's not a sauna, it just shares every characteristic of a sauna.

 

[Bronx-Man]

What a surprise, we're getting into a bullshit argument on the internet about linguistics that keeps going in circles.

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

And look how fast much of the media dropped it. Do you reckon it would have been forgotten so fast by all the pearl clutching moderstes here & elsewhere if it was a Muslim who'd shot up a church or a synagogue?

(Note this is not to dismiss atrocities committed against Christians or jews)

If it were the other we'd see Canadian flags on Twitter/Facebook avatars and here too. #JeSuisQuebec would be trending etc etc.

 

[smudge]

Lol you're right. Objective facts, debates and doing nothing. I'm sure they'll come around.

True, but I don't think the public just having a massive scrap is the answer either. This will get worse before it gets better.

 

[jellies_two]

Tiny mustache
Micro penis
Nazi uniform
Questionable lampshades

Dying here.

 

[SonicXtreme]

jesus stop with the hate and senseless violence, all of you. i swear this never ending circle just picks up steam no matter what side it's on at the moment. step outside of that shit. acknowledging and feeding trolls is literally just putting steam in the engine, rioting is shoveling steam into it

 

[Messofanego]

Bigots, racists, antisemite would do.


But if calling people nazi gives you a stiffy, be my guest.

If you combine all that into the Voltron of hate, which Milo has done, you get a Nazi. When it comes to defining Nazis, political correctness sure likes to come about

 

[Crossing Eden]

What a surprise, we're getting into a bullshit argument on the internet about linguistics that keeps going in circles.

These fuckers could probably start euthanizing people and dudes would still be saying "but are they really nazis tho." Holy fuck dude! Suddenly people wanna be fucking english teachers whenever it comes to terms describing white supremacist, bigots, racists, nazis, etc.

 

[TestOfTide]

ISIS dehumanizes jews too. They are no nazis. It takes more to be a nazi than dehumanizing jews.

The difference is that ISIS are not white supremacists. They are ultra-religious Muslims that want to rule the world with Islam.

The Alt-Right are white supremacists who hate Jews, advocate for fascist policies, and use hate to spread.

You are a liar and will hopefully be banned shortly.

 

[Yaboosh]

jesus stop with the hate and senseless violence, all of you. i swear this never ending circle just picks up steam no matter what side it's on at the moment. step outside of that shit.

Lots of people don't have the privilege to be able to step outside of the shit going on right now. There are existential threats against certain groups in this country.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Tiny mustache
Micro penis
Hugo Boss
IBM Computer
Questionable lampshades

FTFY

 

[Boozeroony]

i think you would struggle to name some (outside of the alt-reich not currently manning concentration camps)

I read my posts again. I named a few.

 

[Lime]

I heard this guy is doing great things at the moment:

Very applicable to this thread

 

[Crossing Eden]

Lots of people don't have the privilege to be able to step outside of the shit going on right now. There are existential threats against certain groups in this country.

I'll stop hating white supremacists when they stop hating me for my skin color.

 

[Messofanego]

Wonder if moderate-man would come to the rescue of ISIS aligned Imams doing the same on campuses?🤔🤔

🤔

I bet my life savings on NO.

 

[Lime]

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

 

[Snowybreak]

Has anyone posted the XKCD comic yet? Because it's a pretty good summary of how this shit goes. And holy fuck am I tired of the constant "free speech" argument. Just because you can't be arrested for what you say doesn't mean that you will always have a platform to say it. Milo has constantly used hate speech to attack people at these speeches and for some reason the same people come out of the woodwork to defend him, saying shit like "if you bar him it's censorship!!!" without thinking of the ramifications of him causing problems due to his hateful speech.

Those people are saying that one person's privilege to speak at these venues outweighs the rights of people to not be subjected to a tirade of hate speech from this fuck.

 

[Kai Dracon]

It's as if Godwin's Law has been taken to mean there's never a legitimate reason to call someone a Literal Nazi even when they turn out to be Literal Nazis.

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

Also this.

And after it happens everybody says "how could this happen?"

 

[Frozenprince]

What a surprise, we're getting into a bullshit argument on the internet about linguistics that keeps going in circles.

Arguing semantics is the time honored method of deflecting from ever actually having to empathize with minorities being beaten and killed because of this hate speech.

 

[tuxfool]

I heard this guy is doing great things at the moment:

Very applicable to this thread

Perfect.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

This needs to be posted any time there's any discussion on protesting nazis and fascists.

 

[marrec]

You're being deliberately obtuse for the dumbest fucking reason. Come out and say what you're getting at.

I'm sorry if you're not understanding but I'm not being obtuse at all, I have grave concerns about the outer limit of this newly accepted political violence and I think I've made that clear. I am unsure whether Milo and his cronies do or should fall behind the "lets punch them when we see them" line.

MH was able to engage with my point, though I'm likely not getting it across clearly enough for everyone I suppose.

As I said earlier, he's alt-right adjacent.

As I also said earlier, I don't find it much of a problem because:

A) protest is free speech
B) those protesters who turn to violence do not aptly cover the entire protest
C) violent actions will be taken care of by the state and law enforcement

What I tend to find interesting is the intense amount of hand-wringing over disallowing protest of Milo's particular rhetoric, but not also have an intense and much larger issue with the thrust of that rhetoric being put into legislative action by a President who has literally offered up issues of free speech in its textbook definition.

I agree with your list. Violent protests are gunna violent protest and should not be lumped into the actions of simple protest against what is very much a political cause and speech.

And I also find Trump's tweet very concerning. He's is threatening economic sanctions against an entire university in an attempt to silence further protest or get the university officials to silence them. And this is where my point is made even more clear. Trump is not able to differentiate between the real concern Milo causes across the country and the small pockets of violence that seem to follow him.

I'm worried that in endorsing this violence as "Fuck ya let's Punch Nazis" some on the left will also lose the forest for the trees (nazi Trees) and start tilting at Nazi Windmills. Suppression of free speech is an issue that cannot be achieved via free citizens responding to what you're saying via protest. The idea that Milo is having his rights violated by having to cancel his hate spew session is ludicrous made even more so by our President threatening economic sanction against the university. My question is different though, I'm worried about this spreading idea that violence is the solution to ALL political issue and that ALL political activism will soon become political violence, or judged as not being violent enough.

Clearly things won't get that bad, but I do think it's important to retain the distinction.

I'm likely being too philosophical when the main issue seems to be false cries of speech suppression. :-/

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

I read my posts again. I named a few.

No, you actually did not.

Please stop derailing and answer the question directly.

I'll stop hating white supremacists when they stop hating me for my skin color.

Facts.

Once more for the people in the back: The state of my humanity is not a 'difference in opinion.'

Tiny mustache
Micro penis
Nazi uniform
Questionable lampshades

Two guys sitting in a sauna. One says "it's like a sauna in here." The other argues it's not a sauna, it just shares every characteristic of a sauna.

Thank you for the laughs, guys. It gives me some levity in this most infuriating of times.

 

[jstripes]

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

Everyone with left-leaning ideals needs to be educated on this.

Fascists insist you play by your rules, but refuse to play by those same rules.

 

[Frozenprince]

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/spi...&2sid=Google_&sourceId=PLGoP22&k_clickid=3x22

The Spirit and the Shotgun explores the role of armed self-defense in tandem with nonviolent protests in the African American freedom struggle of the 1950s and 1960s. Confronted with violent attacks by the Ku Klux Klan and other racist terrorists, southern blacks adopted Martin Luther King's philosophy of nonviolent resistance as a tactic, Wendt argues, but at the same time armed themselves out of necessity and pride. Sophisticated self-defense units patrolled black neighborhoods, guarded the homes of movement leaders, rescued activists from harm, and occasionally traded shots with their white attackers. These patrols enhanced and sustained local movements in the face of white aggression. They also provoked vigorous debate within traditionally nonviolent civil rights organizations such as SNCC, CORE, and the

Miss me with the "violent resistance isn't the answer" mess.

There is no one correct way of protest and resistance. To shame away violence because it is not palatable to you does no people who are still victims any good.

Forcing yourself to broaden your own world views and doing so you may prove an effective way to resist on your own.

Please, people, buy some of the books I've linked here. Even if you disagree with them, at the very least, having some historical perspective for violent resistance will do you a world of good.

 

[remist]

Can they make restrictions based on history of the person harassing/mocking the students?

The mocking in question would have to be criminal in nature and they would have to have reasonable suspicion that he would repeat it. In university designated public forums or limited public forums, restrictions on speech have to be viewpoint neutral.

 

[boiled goose]

jesus stop with the hate and senseless violence, all of you. i swear this never ending circle just picks up steam no matter what side it's on at the moment. step outside of that shit. acknowledging and feeding trolls is literally just putting steam in the engine, rioting is shoveling steam into it

Side 1: "I hate X, they don't deserve the same rights"
Side 2: "That's wrong, we will oppose it"
Side 1: "Stop oppressing me. You: "stop the violence"!

 

[Chmpocalypse]

jesus stop with the hate and senseless violence, all of you. i swear this never ending circle just picks up steam no matter what side it's on at the moment. step outside of that shit. acknowledging and feeding trolls is literally just putting steam in the engine, rioting is shoveling steam into it

"Side"

Fuck off with the false equivalence.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Has anyone posted the XKCD comic yet? Because it's a pretty good summary of how this shit goes. And holy fuck am I tired of the constant "free speech" argument. Just because you can't be arrested for what you say doesn't mean that you will always have a platform to say it. Milo has constantly used hate speech to attack people at these speeches and for some reason the same people come out of the woodwork to defend him, saying shit like "if you bar him it's censorship!!!" without thinking of the ramifications of him causing problems due to his hateful speech.

Those people are saying that one person's privilege to speak at these venues outweighs the rights of people to not be subjected to a tirade of hate speech from this fuck.

Literally.

Arguing semantics is the time honored method of deflecting from ever actually having to empathize with minorities being beaten and killed because of this hate speech.

Usually we have a no tolerance policy on such blatant trolling as well.

 

[RinsFury]

"Side"

Fuck off with the false equivalence.

This "both sides" shit is infuriating.

 

[Frozenprince]

Literally.

A young woman was shamed so utterly she had to change her name (again, after already having to do it once because the internet got a hate boner for her) and quit her university.

But nah, we should all hold hands and sing and eventually he'll just go away and our tolerance beams will defeat those that are already working to scale back our rights as I type this.

 

[ant_]

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

This is not 100% true. They often use violence of the opposing side to create an even more compelling narrative and seize power. Hitler faced violence in his rise to power and used it to further justify his means and seize political power

 

[zethren]

Important lesson here:

https://twitter.com/ryanlcooper/status/827169913731182593

Quoting this because it needs to be posted hundreds of times more.

 

[kame-sennin]

It hasn't even been a week since one of these alt-right creeps shot up a Mosque KILLING 6 innocent people and their "moderate" defenders are already back on the "bu-bu-but the violent LEFT!!11!" nonsense.

This is how fascists muddy the waters and advance their agenda.

 

[Crossing Eden]

A young woman was shamed so utterly she had to change her name (again, after already having to do it once because the internet got a hate boner for her) and quit her university.

But nah, we should all hold hands and sing and eventually he'll just go away and our tolerance beams will defeat those that are already working to scale back our rights as I type this.

Let's see what Milo had to say on the matter.

I’ve become a feminist icon. Do you want to know why? So at my previous date at UW Wisconsin, I happen to put on the screen, the image, a picture of a nice young man who think he’s a lady and used the law -- because of course progressives always when they don’t get what they want or want to get in somewhere that they don’t belong, invoke the great patriarchal force known as the government -- to try to get into the women’s locker rooms. This young man was desperate for a bit of tit and minge.

So he tried, via the government, to get himself into the women’s locker rooms at UW Milwaukee. Now he created a terrible fuss, an awful fuss, when I put his name up there and so did the president of that university. But it turns out, he’s going to quit the university. So I have become a sort of second wave feminist icon, protecting women from men in their locker rooms. Well, you’re welcome, feminism.

We should totes keep giving this guy a public platform gais.

 

[kame-sennin]

This is not 100% true. They often use violence of the opposing side to create an even more compelling narrative and seize power. Hitler faced violence in his rise to power and used it to further justify his means and seize political power

Wow, Hitler still duping people 70 years later.

 

[Lime]

This is not 100% true. They often use violence of the opposing side to create an even more compelling narrative and seize power. Hitler faced violence in his rise to power and used it to further justify his means and seize political power

"violence of the opposing side" can be anything to them. These people are so fragile that even asking questions that poke at their worldview is seen as an attack on them.

Couple this with how much they manufacture stories about their victims (e.g. Gamergate, Milo's terrorism of Lesley Jones, fake signs at protests, doctoring tweets and dummy accounts, etc.), and there is simply no appeasement to the fascist fucks. Hell, even Hitler and his crew 'doctored' the violence and blamed the opposition for it.

 

[marrec]

This is not 100% true. They often use violence of the opposing side to create an even more compelling narrative and seize power. Hitler faced violence in his rise to power and used it to further justify his means and seize political power

I think you fundamentally misunderstand Hitler's rise to power when it comes to "liberals". He faced violence from communist and socialist political parties, but the "liberal" parties were all too glad to appease his violent means if they thought the ends would be limited. Time after time the Nazi party was able to extract little bits of political power via outright violence without repercussion from anyone but other violent political movements.

Meanwhile liberals in Germany and the rest of Europe tut-tutted the thuggish violence of a chaotic working class, calling for unity and talks.

 

[Wizard of GAF]

good. anything to halt the cancer that is milo and the alt reich

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

 

[Glass Shark]

I knew Milo was a shitbag, but I didn't know about the public harassment and deadnaming of a trans student at a previous speech. How in the fuck is any college allowing this guy to even be on their campus, let alone speak there, when he has attacked students in the past?

 

[BobbyRobby]

QUOTE=RDreamer;229576974]No one's saying he should be persecuted or the government should stop him from having shitty backwards opinions, but people are saying they don't want to hear his bullshit at their venues.[/QUOTE]

I agree. My only problem is with the violence and those handwaving it away.

"Your party"? I have no idea what you're talking about.

The so-called Left already lost with a fascist in power and a majority of conservatives and far-right politicians willing to enact his policies. You're late to the party.

Now the game is rigged and there won't be many institutions left to protect 'liberal values' in the coming years. Now is the time for organizing, for protesting, for coming together, and to fight back against the rise of far-right ideology and fascism. This isn't a game and it isn't some innocent debate with one side versus the other, it's people's lives, their well-being, societies across the world, and the stability of the planet itself. You and everyone else cannot be neutral in this.

Being against violence isn't a neutral opinion. I am against violence.

Politically, I'd like to see Trump replaced. You can have opinions without enacting them through coercion.

What do you think will happen if violence goes unchecked? How will you stop the people you punch from defending themselves? Do you actually want a civil war?

Do you realize that people like Milo feed off being able to say whatever they want?

Milo and the Alt-Right are the political equivalent of High School Bullies. Trying to reason with them only EMBOLDENS them to be assholes even more.

Bullies don't stop until the face legal consequences or get the shit beat out of them.

In reality, I don't think he'd stop unless he was shot. If he got beat up, I think he'd play it up and get more famous.

The first I heard of Milo wasn't from Milo. It was from this forum, and I imagine most people hear about him from the people he provoked.

 

[Frozenprince]

Let's see what Milo had to say on the matter.

We should totes keep giving this guy a public platform gais.

Wish someone would cold cock him.

 

[ant_]

I think you fundamentally misunderstand Hitler's rise to power when it comes to "liberals". He faced violence from communist and socialist political parties, but the "liberal" parties were all too glad to appease his violent means if they thought the ends would be limited. Time after time the Nazi party was able to extract little bits of political power via outright violence without repercussion from anyone but other violent political movements.

Meanwhile liberals in Germany and the rest of Europe tut-tutted the thuggish violence of a chaotic working class, calling for unity and talks.

I understand this, maybe I should have been more clear. I do think it's important to be historically accurate. Hitler used violence of opponents to further his agenda and seize power.

 

[Lime]

Let's see what Goebbels had to say back in 1928:

 

[RinsFury]

Wish someone would cold cock him.

I believe in the freedom to punch nazi scum.

 

[marrec]

I understand this, maybe I should have been more clear. I do think it's important to be historically accurate. Hitler used violence of opponents to further his agenda and seize power.

It was one tool yes, another tool was liberal appeasement. The fracturus nature of German political parties at the time certainly helped by allowing him to play victim when it was politically expedient.