AHA-Lambda
Member
Same.
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Jihadi brides return to UK sent back by husbands preparing ISIS last stand or widowed
- Thread starter AcademicSaucer
- Start date
Same.
ClosingADoor
Member
That can be done while they are locked up. They supported a terrorist organisation. That deserves punishment.
This. Idiots, what did they think when they left here ? I do feel sorry for the children, but these women are far too dangerous to be mother's if they believed it was ok to live a violent medievil life.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
While they're behind bars. Sure.
You can talk to people when they're in prison, also makes them less of a threat to normal people that don't join a group that wants to kill literally everyone else.
KZObsessed
Member
Straight to a prison cell hopefully. People who support terrorists can never be trusted within society.
They're of the mindset where joining their husbands and getting married off was their duty to God. They're of the mindset that this isn't just a physical struggle, but a spiritual one too. They're fanatics who have been totally radicalised.
I'm not saying it was hidden. I'm saying that they were of the belief that these acts were justified. And I'm certainly not expecting them to "walk back into a society", I am however expecting the law to apply to them and these individuals are treated fairly. Even if they didn't treat others like that. And in the specific cases where children or some of these women can be helped, then the services be provided to them.
I'm not going to disagree with that. But only after a trial.
The radical change in behavior and ideals gives a similar vibe to the kind of brainwashing you'd see from cult recruits. Disappearing from your family and friends to run away with ISIS sounds a lot like the same kind of cutting off you'd see from, say, Scientologists.
I'm not sure what ISIS is doing to recruit people, but somehow it's working on at least some part of the population.
I agree that these people are aiding terrorism and are criminals for it, but they should be studied to figure out how they became the way they are. Finding ways to stop more terrorists from being formed should take priority over punishing or trying to get revenge on the ones that you can catch.
Mohonky
Member
What are you on about?
Did they follow their husband or otherwise voluntarily go to and live in the Islamic Caliphate?
If they did then yeh, they are guilty of aiding and joining a terrorist organisation.
Which part of that is hard to understand? Joining / aiding / providing any support for a terrorist organisation is a crime. What do you think they were doing over there? Trying to convince members to change their ways?
| Praxis |
Banned
I just feel sorry for the children these dumb cunts spawn. No sympathy for whatever happens to the parents.
V
Vilix
Unconfirmed Member
I think he meant to ask why should the U.K. take them back?
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
About a year ago I actually read a propaganda magazine published by ISIS on Sam Harris' blog. There are a number of disturbing articles in there (actually one of the more disturbing things was that it had pretty good graphic design). But the one that stood out to me was this article written by a Finnish woman who had converted to Islam and emigrated to ISIS territory.
The motivation seems to be that Isis is offering true expression of Islamic community, where you and your kids can live a more authentically faithful life. It is portrayed as hard to live properly as a Muslim in the lands of the unbeliever, and it is incumbent upon all Muslims to move and be with their own people. Isis is portrayed as the purest lands in which one can be a Muslim. If you're a religious person, that can sound very appealing. It's not so different from my own Buddhist mother who sometimes gets romantic ideas about moving to India and studying with the Dalai Lama. The idea that "over there" there is a purer land where your spirituality can blossom.
Now obviously it's an evil propaganda rag, but this is the official pitch. If you read between the lines, it also seems that her Muslim husband was radicalized back in Finland (surprise) and the reason to move to Isis was essentially to flee the authorities and be able to support jihadi operations.
She also describes how 4 months in, her son was martyred. But this is portrayed as a blessing, because at least he wouldn't be subject to the corrupting influences in the land of the unbelievers.
tl;dr Isis portrays itself as spiritual Disneyland for Muslims, and some poor pious housewives eat it up.
The motivation seems to be that Isis is offering true expression of Islamic community, where you and your kids can live a more authentically faithful life. It is portrayed as hard to live properly as a Muslim in the lands of the unbeliever, and it is incumbent upon all Muslims to move and be with their own people. Isis is portrayed as the purest lands in which one can be a Muslim. If you're a religious person, that can sound very appealing. It's not so different from my own Buddhist mother who sometimes gets romantic ideas about moving to India and studying with the Dalai Lama. The idea that "over there" there is a purer land where your spirituality can blossom.
Now obviously it's an evil propaganda rag, but this is the official pitch. If you read between the lines, it also seems that her Muslim husband was radicalized back in Finland (surprise) and the reason to move to Isis was essentially to flee the authorities and be able to support jihadi operations.
She also describes how 4 months in, her son was martyred. But this is portrayed as a blessing, because at least he wouldn't be subject to the corrupting influences in the land of the unbelievers.
tl;dr Isis portrays itself as spiritual Disneyland for Muslims, and some poor pious housewives eat it up.
ClosingADoor
Member
Nobody here is saying they don't get a trial. They arrive, you charge them, you lock them up, you convict them and either throw them out of the country or lock them up some more.
Muffin1611
Banned
From the Article:
You really can't see the scenario of a husband convincing/forcing her wife to travel there with him? Because I can. You can convict people for doing illegal things, not for being stupid or being forced to do something.
Am I glad that the justice system works on case by case basis.
Rktk
Member
No, people are assuming they have done something illegal. Charge them with what?
SyenceLabb
Member
Ummm.... we already know why they did it. Islam.
ClosingADoor
Member
Aiding a terrorist organisation.
Mohonky
Member
?
As was pointed out, if they believe such acts are morally justified, they are a very serious threat to society.
I'm willing to bet you could go to any prison and find any number of serial killers who will believe their actions were justified, doesnt exactly make them any less culpable.
They should be tried for their actions. No one is suggesting just throw them in jail, of course they will be out to trial, but they have shown through their actions of joining IS they are dangerous to society and should be detained immediately.
Rktk
Member
Aiding how?
Muffin1611
Banned
So tell me if the scenario I laid out in my last post is impossible or not.
guggnichso
Banned
Joining / aiding a terrorist Organisation.
ClosingADoor
Member
By traveling to Syria and helping them.
What exactly are you defending here? That we have a trial for them? I have already said that should be the case.
It just sounds like some people in this thread want to paint these women as just victims who have done nothing wrong and we should feel sorry for them and welcome them back with open arms. That is a very hard sell when it comes to an organisation like ISIS.
Agreed, like the ones that advocate for letting them back into society because we can learn from them or something.
Some of the responses here are sheer stupidity.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
One problem with jail is that people can become further radicalized in them.
Sure, and these are things that we can learn from. There are plenty here that have already passed blanket judgments.
Rktk
Member
By making dinner? We are not to assume these wives are making arms / involved in fighting.
ClosingADoor
Member
The article says they traveled to Syria to join ISIS. That is a terrorist organisation. At what point do you think we should charge them with that? If they actually killed someone? The act of joining alone can be reason enough for charging them and be put on trial.
Muffin1611
Banned
To the latter: I'm really not. I repeatedly said they should be charged if they've done something.
What I'm defending, is the possibility that a minority of these women may eventually be innocent. So yes, still investigate them.
But that after how many burka threads we had on GAF, talking about how some Muslim women are raised to always do what the man says, I appear to be the only one even considering that some of these may have been forced to go there with their husband and really didn't want to, but were too scared to stay.
Then I hope the judges will take that into consideration and charge them accordingly. And not charge the women who have been forced to be there.
It's like I have to explain the basics of a functioning justice system now.
Did I say to let them "back into society" or are you just blatantly misrepresenting my stance? Get a grip.
ClosingADoor
Member
That can be figured out during the trial, but until that is finished they can be locked away from society for a bit and I'm not going to start feeling sorry for them.
There are some organisations so terrible that you don't start out with the benefit of the doubt but have to earn that. And well, they could also have fled or not go there, or stopped along the way there and get away from their husband.
You started out with the point that we should try to understand them and we are wrong for thinking they should be locked up. If you want to try and understand them while they are behind bars, I'm all for it.
Mohonky
Member
Seriously? Where are you coming up with this shit?
This is not a case of false imprisonment. Knowing your partner commited or plans to commit a crime and doing not reporting it or actively supporting their actions; guess what, thats a crime.
Ignorance is not a defense. They knew what they were doing. They knew what was happening. Their options were to report their partners or join them. They chose the latter.
The defense of theae women seems to be;
They didnt commit a crime - actually yeh, they did
They didnt know any better / their husband coerced them - not knowing something is a crime doesnt mean you have not in fact, committed a crime and unless you had no means of preventing another person involving you in a crime or prevented you from participating (gonna be a hard as shit argument to say you had no reasonable means of escape throughout the duration of travelling between England and Syria) then yeh, you have also committed a crime.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Responses in here are interesting in comparison to the last thread about something similar...
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1367173
I get it though, fear from the terrorist attack has people on edge.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1367173
I get it though, fear from the terrorist attack has people on edge.
Muffin1611
Banned
Then we're on the same page.
Pretty sure that being forced to commit a crime under threats doesn't get you sentenced the same as someone willingly committing a crime. That you claim to know exactly that this can't apply to anyone there is just dumb.
Rktk
Member
The article does not say they are members of ISIS.
I can't be sure of it, that's the point. If there is reason to believe they have committed crimes then charge them, and absolutely they need to be monitored and heavily evaluated, but being the wife of a criminal does not automatically mean you have committed a crime.
You're a fool. They are all traitors and trojan horses. It's just like in Denmark. One ISIS fighter admitted he raped women and killed children and the Danes STILL let him walk free as long as he gave them intelligence.
Or do you believe they are all innocents, misguided about the "glory" of the caliphate, returning to the west they hate so much? They are so sorry, seeing the "glory"'of representative democracy and secularism. The Indians simply torture and hang like cattle any returning ISIS fighter. They realize ISIS is an existential threat to them. They all deserve to die. Just like those two Austrian girls that ran off to Syria. One got killed, the other one was pregnant and begged to come back, the Austrians said "lol" and she was reportedly killed too.
the_batman
Banned
Anyone who does this, not just brides but soldiers as well, should have their citizenship revoked for treasonous acts, and put in prison for life.
ClosingADoor
Member
It's the first sentence though: "British jihadi brides are returning home after being widowed, or being sent away by husbands preparing to make a final stand with the Islamic State group."
I can't read that any other way then them being a part of ISIS.
Rktk
Member
Well then you clearly can't read.
Don't worry they just traveled to the state controlled by ISIS, married people who fight for ISIS and by virtue of travelling and living in the state controlled by ISIS materially and financially supported them... I'm gonna say that counts at the very least as aiding ISIS
Soldiussnaku
Member
Need to separate the kids and either put them with relatives with none or little visitation rights for the mothers whilst they get investigated, monitored and/or locked up until a time where the authorities deem them no threat to their kids and society.
Secondly need to get the mothers into mandated therapy and counselling and also questioning so they get the evil shit that drove them to join the fuckers in the first place out of their system.
If they refuse to cooperate then they need to be deported and citizenship revoked.
Isis is such an evil group that anyone that had any extended contact with them and was knee deep in working with them is a grave threat to society and their own family.
Secondly need to get the mothers into mandated therapy and counselling and also questioning so they get the evil shit that drove them to join the fuckers in the first place out of their system.
If they refuse to cooperate then they need to be deported and citizenship revoked.
Isis is such an evil group that anyone that had any extended contact with them and was knee deep in working with them is a grave threat to society and their own family.
ClosingADoor
Member
You are seriously telling me that "jihadi brides" that went with their husbands to Syria are not a member of ISIS?
I can understand the argument of them being forced made above to some extend. But to argue they are not a part of it at all seems to be a bit of a stretch.
I really didn't. I was responding to someone who said to treat them as enemy combatants. I don't disagree with that, I do however take issue with passing judgment before these people have had due process.
I'm sure there are many cases such as Islam Mitat's. And understanding why and how these women got into the position they're in is extremely important for a number of reasons. From intelligence gathering to understanding the radicalisation process they went through, if they were indeed radicalised. As I stated before, this is invaluable information.
You're not in the wrong for thinking these people should be jailed if they are guilty.
ThatStupidLion
Member
so you're saying jihadi spouses are not part of isis even if their husband is/was, right?
They all deserve death over the age of 16, yet here you going on about counseling and therapy and maternal custodial rights
Child endangerment? Negligence? I dunno what kind of laws are in the UK.
Just the brides or their children too?
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