Dr_LucienSanchez
Banned
You wouldn't send that to me in a facts message though.
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Microsoft needs more exclusives throughout the year
- Thread starter GravityInsanity
- Start date
You wouldn't send that to me in a facts message though.
Humdinger
Member
That is interesting, thanks for sharing. He seems to give a balanced perspective, and he's certainly in a position to know about MS culture.
It makes sense. That difference in cultures must be responsible for MS's risk-averse, "play it safe" approach lately. Not only is that part of the culture, for the reasons Seamus illustrates, but it has surely been exacerbated by the fact that so many of the risks that they did take in the last 3 - 4 years have not paid off.
Narpas Sword0
Member
Microsoft shut down and sold off most of their first parties and forced the remaining ones to make Gears, Forza, or Halo only.
I am sure there are many talented people at these studios who would love to do more.
Hahahaha facts
Lord of Ostia
Member
Have you paid attention to literally none of the news of Microsoft studio closures? Like, Lionhead had a complete game that was playable in a closed beta and they still got shuttered. The problem is not that the 'studios couldn't deliver games'.
Duxxy3
Member
That game looked terrible. But that's on Microsoft for approving it.
chemicals
Member
With every E3 and with every game announcement I always tell myself "this is gonna be when they bring out a ton of new xbox exclusives.. it's been years - they must be hiding at least 6 triple A titles up their sleeves". Then E3 comes and goes and what is there? Another Forza? maybe a Forza Horizon also. the Rare game Sea Of Thieves looks great, but doesn't it feel like years since they first announced it? Anyway, not trying to knock Microsoft but I agree with OP.
Bigboss242
Banned
No it's on Microsoft interfering and canceling projects.
SimpleCRIPPLE
Member
Whats worse? A reputation of crappy first party games, or a reputation for having a lack of first party games?
Jetboxx
Member
Well, Ninja Gaiden II by Itagaki is exclusive to the Xbox 360. Sigma 2 is way worse and Itagaki has nothing to do with it.
NG2 was rushed to completion to try and beat MGS4 in sales and was a buggy, unbalanced mess.
Xbox needs like...4-6 exclusive retail games per year. I can't even tell you the last time Microsoft released a first party game for Xbox, because it feels like everything they do is a service to hide their major lack of first party games, and it doesn't look like it's going to improve anytime soon.
They can't keep riding Forza every year. They can't release a Halo every year. They can't buy a third party exclusive every year. They need more than that. A LOT more. And considering all the studios they've closed over the last 2-3 years and all of the projects they've cancelled, it's clear that something isn't right there and needs a MASSIVE fix, roughly 2 years ago.
Jetboxx
Member
I wouldn't call it "a mess". The game had some problems, aye. But the battle system was GREAT. And it's better than Sigma 2, a way more unbalanced mess.
VanCityGamer
Member
In theory. I doubt that transpires, though.
Not all Sony titles are top tier. Loads of the PS3 gen stuff was just OK. You need those titles though. Niche.
Crayon
Member
It's true. Things like kameo or infamous arent the best of the best, but they show quality and they can find an audience. Even if it's a modest success, you string a few of those together and you have something.
unknownstranger
Member
Hardware is a big reason why they're so far behind Sony this gen. They banked hard on TV and Kinect at the expense of weaker hardware and a higher price. Their first party lineup has been lackluster but hardware doesn't get a free pass.
Night Angel
Member
As long as we don't get another Haze or Lair, I'm fine with OK niche games.
Crayon
Member
Another lair could happen any time. This is a cruel and uncaring world.
Team Andromeda
Member
C'Mon the game is out on the PS3 and better yet MS didn't come in to help and fund Itagaki-san 'then' new game and instead let THQ step in.
It was a great perception. E3 they'd roll out titles, Gamescom they'd have different ones, TGS more still. Felt like a conveyor belt. I mean we all pick out Uncharted and TLOU when looking back but there were a serious array of titles which really felt encouraging as a system owner. You tend to upsell and appreciate these titles more than some mid ground THQ effort too. Also meant that when PSN+ hit, there was some serious heft to dive through.
SiegfriedFM
Member
A released Lair is better than a cancelled Scalebound.
I haven't cared for the big ones since Halo 3 or Gears 1, so Microsoft is doing VERY little to make me care nowadays. Ori 2 and Cuphead are literally the only games I look forward to. I stopped waiting for Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves long ago.
The fact that Xbox has always been dead in Japan is the main problem. I'm not interested in most major AAA titles, and the Xbox isn't getting games like Yakuza and King of Fighters. Those games help fill out the gaps between Sony's own games.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
You have the wrong console if niche Japanese games are what you want. I think the last niche Japanese game Xbox got was Valkryia Revolution.
Jetboxx
Member
Again, this isn't the same game. The vanilla game is way better than imbalanced Sigma 2. Itagaki is a way better director than Hayashi.
Well, they did come at first. Have you read the Polygon interview with Itagaki? Devil's Third was initially an Xbox 360 exclusive. But than that Kinect thing started...
Team Andromeda
Member
Look don't insult me, with trying to give me a history lesson. We all know the 360 came 1st, it was easier to develop on and cheaper (not that ever helped the Dreamcast mind you) I was one of many who bought a 360 @ its UK launch, but just to correct you for a moment for quite a few months the XBox One outsold the PS4 in the USA after both systems launched.
Now as for risks yes at the start MS was more willing with the 360, but that changed mid way in. It stopped working with Mistwalker which lead to the canning of Cry-On, it allowed Mass Effect to go to PS3 and allowed it once close 1st party developers like Bizzare Creations, Bioware, DICE be bought out, it sold off its prized studio because it only wanted BUNGiE to work on HALO and not for it makes its new IP (so much for risks) it closed down various In-House studios like Indie, Essemble, and Fasta, It had RARE work on Avatars while canning planned sequels to Kameo, PDZ and all but killed Lionhead with the Milo and Fable the Jonury load of toss. It allowed Team Ninja to work on the PS3 and to see Dead Rising II, Lost Planet come out on the PS3, said no thanks to Alan Wake II or any more PGR racing games, allowed Konami to kill 99 Knights and saw no need for the Phantom Dust In-House studio
So I'm failing to see what was so wonderful about MS on the 360, other than it being the best selling console in the USA and the darling of Digital Foundry comparisons and having Halo 3 , Forza and Gears (so as the one. And I'll go as far to say that the OG Xbox was far better for exclusives that were only on the XBox , never on its 'then' rival systems... Games like O.TO.GI 1/2, Orta, Riddick, Ninja Gaiden, Phantom Dust, JSRF, GV, Rallisport Ect
Kinect games make the numbers look better than they are, from 2010 forward the output has been terrible, and it's just a coincidence that Phil was head of first party studios or head of MS in all those years.
I know Kinect wasn't to everyone's taste but it's not right to dismiss those games as part of a first (and third) party effort either, I feel.. like, love it or hate it they did commit to supporting Kinect with software over those few years.
Which reality are you posting from? Because in this world, on the very forum you are posting on are monthly records of the NPD showing the PS4 being number one for the majority of the passing months/years.
You are either in a alternate reality or you're pulling things from your arse.
http://m.neogaf.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18
wapplew
Member
Most of 2016/2017 problem can trace back to E3 2014.
I think it's just an unfortunate case of rushed games greenlit/announcement for that E3.
It's the growing pains for restructure, things will be better.
Team Andromeda
Member
For a couple of months after both systems shipped in the USA, sure MS boasted of it being the best selling console in the USA for Christmas after launch, how it was selling way better than the 360 did (at the same stage of its life. Didn't last long, but the XBox One 1st few months were far from a flop and right up there with the PS4's
anothertech
Member
A far cry from the "quite a few months" narrative you're trying to push. Honestly, you need to just stop.
There's no defense for the current lack of exclusives on Xbone. 3 in 12 months? Utter bullsht no matter how you spin it.
Team Andromeda
Member
I would say it can all be traced back to 2010 and MS thinking Kinect was the be and end all. Sadly at a cost of its focus to the core gamer or the need for IP
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Because they don't know how to properly manage studio it seems.
Look at what they did it's Phantom Dust, Bungie outright leaving them and the rambling about their handling of Scalebound.
No it was losing in it's strongest territory, crushed in others and continues to loose ground. Just stop.
Bioshocker
Member
According to Spencer they've learnt the hard way the downside of announcing games too early. I guess that is the only thing keeping my hope of new exclusives somewhat alive still.
Team Andromeda
Member
The trouble with a couple is it's only Two and please don't swear at me or insult me.
I'm only pointing out that after Kinect MS seemed to care far less for the core gamer and began its horrible journey of chasing the casuals and mum and dad. Studios were closed down, RARE was put to work on bloody Avatar's and MS started to care not about Japan or working and doing deals with Japanese developers and even let it's one-time main man in Japan Itagaki-san go to THQ, rather than fund and help his new studio (which is what they should have done) . Not seemed worried or be bothered that Lost Planet, Mass Effect was off to the PS3, saw Bizare Creations go to Activision, Mistwalker to work with Nintendo and make next to no effort to push Alan Wake, must less green light the sequel and buy buy BUNGiEand rights to Destiny (what a cock up)
So much of the hard work it had done it the early years of the 360, almost counted for nothing. So the rot for me started when Kinect came out and mid way through the 360 life.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Okay. Seems to be a lot to talk about in this post so I'll have to break it down piece-by-piece.
"but just to correct you for a moment for quite a few months the XBox One outsold the PS4 in the USA after both systems launched."
- I don't see in TTTBU's post where he claims otherwise? Anecdotally, now that the Switch is out and a huge success and the PS4 momentum doesn't seem to be slowing down I don't see MS getting many more if any #1 hardwares in the NPD.
"it allowed Mass Effect to go to PS3"
- MS didn't "allow" anything. EA bought the developer & the IP.
"1st party developers like Bizzare Creations, Bioware, DICE be bought out"
- Bioware was never 1st party, but that's just semantics and I understand what you're getting at. I think this was a crucial error, although I wonder if those studios would have fared any better under MS. Bizarre went under pretty quickly, DICE are doing great but Bioware make predominantly single-player RPGs which is not where MS's focus is going to be judging from their current trends and comments.
"it sold off its prized studio because it only wanted BUNGiE to work on HALO and not for it makes its new IP (so much for risks)"
- I think this was a really crucial error on their part. I liken it to Sony allowing Naughty Dog to split the studio and make The Last of Us after launching one of their most popular games ever (Uncharted 2). That gave Sony a second huge franchise and pushed ND to become the jewel in their first party crown. Imagine if MS had kept Bungie on board but allowed them to make Destiny as a pet project; they would have Halo as a massive FPS franchise and then Destiny as this huge new IP. Maybe we don't know the inside story and the creatives at Bungie really wanted their freedom, but from an outsider's perspective it seems insane that they didn't do everything in their power to keep Bungie in-house.
"it closed down various In-House studios like Indie, Essemble, and Fasta"
- (I'm not sure who Indie are?) The thing with this is that they offset these closures with new studios last gen, like 343 Industries, Twisted Pixel, Press Play, Microsoft Vancouver (which later became The Coalition), Lift London, Mojang and Team Dakota. This gen they've closed at least 4 studios and not set up any new ones, if I'm not mistaken.
"It allowed Team Ninja to work on the PS3"
- Not their decision. Team Ninja is an internal development team at Tecmo Koei.
"Dead Rising II, Lost Planet come out on the PS3"
- Again, this was Capcom's decision, not MS's. Their strategy last gen leaned heavily on getting the first game in a franchise exclusive (or timed exclusive) and not caring if the sequel was multiplat as that already made them the platform of choice for the sequel. It worked very well for them on the whole.
"and saw no need for the Phantom Dust In-House studio"
- That happened this gen though? The remake by Darkside Studios was only announced at E3 2014.
"So I'm failing to see what was so wonderful about MS on the 360"
- I think the main thing is that in the OG Xbox and pre-Kinect 360 they seemed hungry to win. Lots of good exclusives in some less mainstream genres sometimes, even if they didn't sell particularly well or get sequels. The latter part of the 360's life was mostly plagued by Kinect shit, and then this gen after a pretty impressive line-up of exclusives in the launch window they again seem to have dropped back to not giving a shit. Phil Spencer has been in charge of Xbox first-party development since 2008, and yet their output is more meagre than ever.
"but just to correct you for a moment for quite a few months the XBox One outsold the PS4 in the USA after both systems launched."
- I don't see in TTTBU's post where he claims otherwise? Anecdotally, now that the Switch is out and a huge success and the PS4 momentum doesn't seem to be slowing down I don't see MS getting many more if any #1 hardwares in the NPD.
"it allowed Mass Effect to go to PS3"
- MS didn't "allow" anything. EA bought the developer & the IP.
"1st party developers like Bizzare Creations, Bioware, DICE be bought out"
- Bioware was never 1st party, but that's just semantics and I understand what you're getting at. I think this was a crucial error, although I wonder if those studios would have fared any better under MS. Bizarre went under pretty quickly, DICE are doing great but Bioware make predominantly single-player RPGs which is not where MS's focus is going to be judging from their current trends and comments.
"it sold off its prized studio because it only wanted BUNGiE to work on HALO and not for it makes its new IP (so much for risks)"
- I think this was a really crucial error on their part. I liken it to Sony allowing Naughty Dog to split the studio and make The Last of Us after launching one of their most popular games ever (Uncharted 2). That gave Sony a second huge franchise and pushed ND to become the jewel in their first party crown. Imagine if MS had kept Bungie on board but allowed them to make Destiny as a pet project; they would have Halo as a massive FPS franchise and then Destiny as this huge new IP. Maybe we don't know the inside story and the creatives at Bungie really wanted their freedom, but from an outsider's perspective it seems insane that they didn't do everything in their power to keep Bungie in-house.
"it closed down various In-House studios like Indie, Essemble, and Fasta"
- (I'm not sure who Indie are?) The thing with this is that they offset these closures with new studios last gen, like 343 Industries, Twisted Pixel, Press Play, Microsoft Vancouver (which later became The Coalition), Lift London, Mojang and Team Dakota. This gen they've closed at least 4 studios and not set up any new ones, if I'm not mistaken.
"It allowed Team Ninja to work on the PS3"
- Not their decision. Team Ninja is an internal development team at Tecmo Koei.
"Dead Rising II, Lost Planet come out on the PS3"
- Again, this was Capcom's decision, not MS's. Their strategy last gen leaned heavily on getting the first game in a franchise exclusive (or timed exclusive) and not caring if the sequel was multiplat as that already made them the platform of choice for the sequel. It worked very well for them on the whole.
"and saw no need for the Phantom Dust In-House studio"
- That happened this gen though? The remake by Darkside Studios was only announced at E3 2014.
"So I'm failing to see what was so wonderful about MS on the 360"
- I think the main thing is that in the OG Xbox and pre-Kinect 360 they seemed hungry to win. Lots of good exclusives in some less mainstream genres sometimes, even if they didn't sell particularly well or get sequels. The latter part of the 360's life was mostly plagued by Kinect shit, and then this gen after a pretty impressive line-up of exclusives in the launch window they again seem to have dropped back to not giving a shit. Phil Spencer has been in charge of Xbox first-party development since 2008, and yet their output is more meagre than ever.
TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
No... the Wii came first. Both in the US and globally. I don't understand why you're offended by this?
Yes all those things happened later. But at the beginning of the 360 MS was taking way more risks on first-party development and publishing. That's what all of us have been saying. We're contrasting launch 360-era MS with the current MS, which as you correctly stated has gradually moved away from investing in a strong stable of first party published and funded exclusive titles. No-one is saying that MS only made this transition this gen... in fact almost every comment has been consistent in the idea that the back half of the 360 generation, MS started chasing casual gamers with Kinect and entertainment media, divesting funds away from developing new first party core gaming IP, while putting more investment dollars into casual content for Kinect and deals like the NFL deal, building TV studios etc. We're all in agreement on this at least.
However, again the 360 was not the highest selling console in the US. The Wii was.
See I was going ignore you but you don't get to do this. You have been making inaccurate or blatantly false statements in the whole thread. Then, when someone corrects you and even gives you link to prove how wrong your statement is, you come back with "I reject your reality and substitute my own." That is more insulting than anyone cussing at you.
MS, the past two generations, has gone hard for the first few years before relying on annual Forza and sporadic Halo/Gears releases afterwards. Not salvaging Scalebound was a sign of things to come. They knew it had more hype than everything else combined, but didn't even bother bringing in another team to finish it. They let ReCore get pushed out the door somewhat incomplete, seemingly to "get it over with."
Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves, unless they're yet to be cancelled, are seemingly the only somewhat unique projects still afloat. They'd have been further ahead scrapping the Xbox One X and redirecting all the R&D money into software projects.
Crackdown 3 and Sea of Thieves, unless they're yet to be cancelled, are seemingly the only somewhat unique projects still afloat. They'd have been further ahead scrapping the Xbox One X and redirecting all the R&D money into software projects.
Joey Jo-Jo Jr
Member
Racing games I guess? Forza is really strong, backward comp brought a few titles back to life and the console gets all major multiplatforms too. On PS4 there's just said multiformat games, Driveclub (which is excellent) and Gran Turismo Sport in few months.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Incidentally, I wonder if these figures include the likes of Rise of the Tomb Raider and Dead Rising 4, which were published by MS but not first-party nor exclusive.
Nightengale
Member
It does.
The first few years of the 360's lifespan was a fantastic time. They were firing on all cylinders and getting great console exclusives like Mass Effect and Bioshock. Right around the time where Kinect was introduced, the pivot happened. They began to ride their coattails and closed ranks around Halo, Forza, Fable, and Gears.
Somwhere in the multi-verse there's a timeline where Bungie was allowed to work on their new IP and remained a part of Microsoft, making Destiny an XBox One exclusive.
The Cartographer
Member
Those number of exclusive and internally devolped games...I don't think something like this has ever happened before.