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Marvel's The Defenders *SPOILER THREAD* |OT| Super Friends - August 18th on Netflix

Billiam268

Neo Member
The more I think about it, the more disappointed I am with Alexandra, I genuinely don't know how she became the leader.

Also why the hell didn't she fight anyone? Literally the only time she showed any prowess was when she quickly handled Electra. Everyone else got to get their hands dirty.

After Murakami complained that she never go her hands dirty I thought a fight scene was guaranteed. I really thought she was going to fight all four and win at the start of the restaurant scene before Electra showed up, but instead she disappeared. (Probably getting the order and details of that wrong, memory is already hazy on it).
 
It's pretty obvious Karen is taking Ben Ulrich's place from the original Born Again storyline as the journalistic ally of Matt's who tries to clear Matt's name by doing some investigative digging. Plus, Season 2 already implied that The Kingpin has figured out Daredevil's secret identity...so there's certainly no reason to suddenly transform Karen into a pathetic, heroin addled porn-star like in the comics just so she can reveal Matt's secret. This version of Karen has clearly been put on a completely different path. To put her on such a radically different path this late in the game would most likely just feel wildly out of character.

I hope so, it would be a waste of all her character development.

I really thought she was going to fight all four and win at the start of the restaurant scene before Electra showed up, but instead she disappeared.

Iron Fist, the most impulsive guy ever, did not try to punch her during that restaurant scene. How's that even possible.
 
It's pretty obvious Karen is taking Ben Ulrich's place from the original Born Again storyline as the journalistic ally of Matt's who tries to clear Matt's name by doing some investigative digging. Plus, Season 2 already implied that The Kingpin has figured out Daredevil's secret identity...so there's certainly no reason to suddenly transform Karen into a pathetic, heroin addled porn-star like in the comics just so she can reveal Matt's secret. This version of Karen has clearly been put on a completely different path. To put her on such a radically different track this late in the game would most likely just feel wildly out of character and thus not serve any particular use to this new version of the story that they're trying to tell.
Yup this is the direction I feel they are taking
 

hobozero

Member
It's pretty obvious Karen is taking Ben Ulrich's place from the original Born Again storyline as the journalistic ally of Matt's who tries to clear Matt's name by doing some investigative digging. Plus, Season 2 already implied that The Kingpin has figured out Daredevil's secret identity...so there's certainly no reason to suddenly transform Karen into a pathetic, heroin addled porn-star like in the comics just so she can reveal Matt's secret. This version of Karen has clearly been put on a completely different path. To put her on such a radically different track this late in the game would most likely just feel wildly out of character and thus not serve any particular use to this new version of the story that they're trying to tell.

If the younger Meechum is any indication, a person in the MCU can get violently addicted to and subsequently clean from heroin in about a week. Precedent says their writers could try putting Karen through her entire Born Again arc in, like, a fortnight?
 
If the younger Meechum is any indication, a person in the MCU can get violently addicted to and subsequently clean from heroin in about a week. Precedent says their writers could try putting Karen through her entire Born Again arc in, like, a fortnight?

Oh god...
 
If the younger Meechum is any indication, a person in the MCU can get violently addicted to and subsequently clean from heroin in about a week. Precedent says their writers could try putting Karen through her entire Born Again arc in, like, a fortnight?

That was Buck though.
 
If the younger Meechum is any indication, a person in the MCU can get violently addicted to and subsequently clean from heroin in about a week. Precedent says their writers could try putting Karen through her entire Born Again arc in, like, a fortnight?

I can already see hints of Karen descending to those depths in this show. She was rather annoying in DD.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
So the whole Black Sky thing was such a dumb plot thread and then continuing Elektra's story with it was even dumber. Then again the Hand's whole plan and presentation to us from even DD S1 was pretty poorly done outside of Madame Gao.
 

LotusHD

Banned
So the whole Black Sky thing was such a dumb plot thread and then continuing Elektra's story with it was even dumber. Then again the Hand's whole plan and presentation to us from even DD S1 was pretty poorly done outside of Madame Gao.

Should have never made Elektra be the Black Sky, such a dumb decision.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Did I miss something about the Black Sky? Like what the fuck even was it? Seems like it was just someone brought back to life as a super fighting machine and that honestly seems kind of lame.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Did anyone find it weird that The Hand is supposed to be this super secretive organization but they hire a shit ton of kids to do their dirty work and tell 'em they're the Hand?
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
To be straight, the Kingpin's set up seemed far better at their jobs and far more intimidating than the hand lol
 

OmegaFax

Member
To be straight, the Kingpin's set up seemed far better at their jobs and far more intimidating than the hand lol

Evil Cookie Monster does seem like the most competent and living villain that these Netflix shows have going for them.

I kind of hope they push Kingpin off into The Punisher as an antagonist.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Did I miss something about the Black Sky? Like what the fuck even was it? Seems like it was just someone brought back to life as a super fighting machine and that honestly seems kind of lame.

Incredible that we've had both DD S2 and Defenders, and yet we're still not entirely sure as to what the Black Sky is, or why it was so vital to their plans.

That didn't happen though?

Didn't the kid Luke was looking after mention it or something?
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
None of the kids doing clean up work knew about the Hand by name. They knew that the organization White Hate/ Sowande was a part of, was not to be fucked with.

Luke Cage brings them up by name and that kid gets even more nervous.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Evil Cookie Monster does seem like the most competent and living villain that these Netflix shows have going for them.

I kind of hope they push Kingpin off into The Punisher as an antagonist.

The Kingpin would have been a far better villain for the overall narrative than The Hand in my opinion for a variety of reasons whether it was Vincent D'onofrio's performance or how he was written and presented to us. It wouldn't have worked as well for The Iron Fist show but still, I think they should have built up the hand more over a longer period of time.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Gao was the best thing about the Hand. Alexandra was actually pretty well done but they seemed to really squander her character so we could get Evilektra.
 

LotusHD

Banned
The Kingpin would have been a far better villain for the overall narrative than The Hand in my opinion for a variety of reasons whether it was Vincent D'onofrio's performance or how he was written and presented to us. It wouldn't have worked as well for The Iron Fist show but still, I think they should have built up the hand more over a longer period of time.

I'm glad they didn't use him. That is all for Matthew's third season, don't interfere!
 

Caspel

Business & Marketing Manager @ GungHo
I wish they used named villains from the comics rather than make their own up. Gorgon, Junzo Muto, White Tiger, Typhoid Mary, The Nail girls, and others could have made The Defenders way more interesting than Alexandra.

Well... I hope Marvel pushes forward with Kingpin as the focus for the next Defenders villain, if they are to have one.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Gao was the best thing about the Hand. Alexandra was actually pretty well done but they seemed to really squander her character so we could get Evilektra.

She had gravitas and all, but then after she dies (and in such a lame way no less), you realize... She didn't do shit.

Also just retroactively undercuts some of her earlier scenes imo
 
She had gravitas and all, but then after she dies (and in such a lame way no less), you realize... She didn't do shit.

Also just retroactively undercuts some of her earlier scenes imo

She's old enough to have visited Constantinople but got duped by her "kid".
 
I liked it.

What worked for me was seeing characters I love (Matt, Jessica, Luke) finally meet.

Sigourney Weaver was wasted. I honestly hope we are done with the hand for awhile. I honestly think Diamondback from Luke Cage and Nuke from JJ would have been more fun for the Defenders to fight. They would have been so cheesy and over the top. Black Sky/Elektra is a pretty boring antagonist.

The actress who plays Colleen is fucking awful. If we had to have any callbacks to Iron Fist Season 1, bring back Ward. He was the only thing that was entertaining on that show.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
She had gravitas and all, but then after she dies (and in such a lame way no less), you realize... She didn't do shit.

Also just retroactively undercuts some of her earlier scenes imo

Yeah I was constantly waiting for her to do something and even the Japanese member of the hand calls her out for always being so hands off when dealing with problems.
 

LotusHD

Banned
She's old enough to have visited Constantinople but got duped by her "kid".

Yea I'm like wow, she got played hard lol

The actress who plays Colleen is fucking awful.

Sadly this is true. It was hidden better when basically everything about Iron Fist sucked, so she stood out favorably more or less. But with all these other characters, that fades away real quick. I still like the character though.

Yeah I was constantly waiting for her to do something and even the Japanese member of the hand calls her out for always being so hands off when dealing with problems.

Also found it amusing that a white woman was the leader of the entire organization. Though considering past criticisms, I guess maybe they wanted to avoid having another evil Asian antagonist? I dunno. Though then again, we all like Gao, and it's already kind of rectified through having the Hand be diverse in regards to both the grunts and leaders, so meh.

EDIT: Oh yea, there's Murakami too.
 

kirblar

Member
She's old enough to have visited Constantinople but got duped by her "kid".
That part didn't bug me after the scene in that ep or the one prior where she tells Elektra that she's grooming her to be her successor because of the whole "eternal life...but not eternal youth" problem she and the others were starting to run into.
 
I wish they used named villains from the comics rather than make their own up. Gorgon, Junzo Muto, White Tiger, Typhoid Mary, The Nail girls, and others could have made The Defenders way more interesting than Alexandra.

Well... I hope Marvel pushes forward with Kingpin as the focus for the next Defenders villain, if they are to have one.

A lot of this is tied up in "what can they get permission to do in collaboration with Marvel Studios" though. IE Claire was going to straight up be Night Nurse but then they were told the movies wanted the option to use Night Nurse, so the Claire character came into existence sharing some similarities without actually being that character, etc.

Who knows what's been blocked from being used as a "maybe for the future" option for the movies, heh. Kingpin absolutely seems like the best bet.
 
That part didn't bug me after the scene in that ep or the one prior where she tells Elektra that she's grooming her to be her successor because of the whole "eternal life...but not eternal youth" problem she and the others were starting to run into.

I know this starts to being a nitpick but Bokuto, Murakami and Sawande appear way younger than Alexandra and Gao. I understand that men age differently but still, even between Alexandra and Gao, I just can't buy this.
 

KarmaCow

Member
Did I miss something or did they ever explain how Alexandria was seemingly in charge? I relegated the show to the background after first few episodes were pretty bad but it felt like every time it was brought up that she was in charge, they were also asking how it happened. Was it anything more than she did they Black Sky stuff with Elektra behind their backs and they were afraid of her?
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The bigger thing is I never felt anyone actually matched the age they were supposed to be except Gao and Alexandra at times. Bokuto and Sawande just felt like your usual generic bad guy villains and not criminal masterminds that were many centuries old at least.
 
Alexandra was their leader since K'un Lun, she organized the escape or something like that.

The bigger thing is I never felt anyone actually matched the age they were supposed to be except Gao and Alexandra at times. Bokuto and Sawande just felt like your usual generic bad guy villains and not criminal masterminds that were many centuries old at least.

Yep. Bokuto was the biggest offender. Murakami should've been a mister Miyagi or Pai Mei kinda guy, that would fit with the "eternal youth" and what kirblar said earlier.
 

neojubei

Will drop pants for Sony.
Just finished the defenders and it doesn't feel earned liked Avengers coming together. I liked how the subplots brought them together but the Chinese food restaurant scene was sad. Glad Jessica bailed out on them when she did, totally within character and her coming back was as well.

The hand.....the hand.....not as bad as hydra even Agents of Shield hydra. Sowade, Gao and Murakami were the standouts. Gao or Sowade should have been the leader and Murakami should have been as fierce as Nobu. Bokuto and Alexandria were piss poor bad. Having Elektra as the Black sky was dumb and what is the black sky? what does it suppose to do. In that one Daredevil episode Stick made it seem they were the anti-Christ or something. The Hand wasn't as bad and the whole show made them out to be.

Also i thought the defenders show was going to answer this question: Who is Stick talking to at the end of Episode 7 of Season 1 of Daredevil ?

As the heroes the standouts were Jessica and Luke, both MVPs of the show, Daredevil a bit behind due to the Elektra crap and far at the bottom is the worse iron fist ever. The man spent most of his youth and adulthood in a monastery and he cannot even calm down, wow.

As for the side characters. Stick was awesome as ever. I love the cut the bullshit attitude with him. Claire and Malcolm were nice background characters. Foggy and whatsherface were ok. Coleen Wing really needs to calm down too, Though I'd kill to see a spin off with Coleen and Misty. The NYPD and Misty felt forced but in a way that they had to be there. This isn't the averages, the police don't casually stand by, they have huge shitty egos.

Wouldn't make sense, considering DD S3 is a thing...

Iron fist should have taken up Daredevil's mantle and worn the suit at the end of the show.
 
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