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Halo |OT12| Last One Out, Get the Lights
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
neoism
Member
if I could nuke the word embargo for the earth I would.... sooo annoying...
It's not an appearance. That's what's happening. 343 tried to reinvent Halo with genre standard systems to varying success at the expense of "vanilla" Halo. But let's put that argument on the shelf for now and address why 343 got the fuck up out this thread.
Since release, there has been an objective, even, "tryhard post" from just about every voice here on the game, and the rest of the community cosigned and +1'd those posts in their respective agreements. So the general mood has been set. Let's pretend there was no shit slinging.
The most 343 will do with those posts is take them into consideration. Game development is not a true collaborative effort with the fans, and it's not your, or anyone else here's job to "save Halo." They're the ones making the game. It's worth literally nothing to them to get into why they did what they did and defend their game against a community that has been at most lukewarm in their reception of the game. Especially since all the objective criticism can be reduced to "your vision ain't Halo, go back to Halo."
Which is fair. But not a mindset that would lead to an actual, constructive discussion with the makers of the game. People here really believe 343 to be incompetent people. Which, again, is their opinion and they have all the right to it. But one that 343 probably won't deal with.
Now to bring in the shit-slinging element of the community: There are the usual suspects implying that anyone who likes the game are idiots or on their knees at 343's feet. That's not a new element. Then there are the outright hostile posts, wondering aloud at the ability of 343 as game designers. Questioning their motives. Again, nothing new, except it's with renewed vigor as they feel vindicated in their dislike of the game. An already poor chance at a constructive discussion with 343 is now gone.
I can understand being frustrated with the game. Certainly. It's not what you wanted, and you called your issues with the game month(s) out. Halo 4 isn't a perfect game by any stretch. But to expect 343 to answer to you or anyone in this thread is big-headed. I'm not saying that 343 should ignore every criticism shot out of HaloGAF. It's that, given the attitude and trends discussion takes around here, it's wholly unsurprising why they took a step back.
The majority of HaloGAF want the exact game they fell in love with all those years ago, with no hassle. But they also want to pretend that exact gameplay is timeless, and that 343 should just appeal to the existing fans instead of branching out. This key distinction in what this community wants, and what 343 wants, is what is proving to be the barrier. And this community should understand that the only cards they actually hold is the feedback they provide, and whether or not they buy the game.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Blue dots don't show you where the person with camo is hiding, so i'm not sure how they are that helpful. With how many people use it, there are blue dots up all the time. Hardly an effective counter balance for the ability or a reason to excuse how OP it can be.
Alright dudes. So I play with a group of guys who have shitty connections and crap NAT, but mine is open and I have a great connection. I'm the one who gets all the lag when I play with them though. It only happens with them. Why the hell is that? Any ideas?
Also, I know someone who pirated the game but is playing on Live. How is this possible?
Also, I know someone who pirated the game but is playing on Live. How is this possible?
Today I have seen Jetpack and Camo defense on GAF.. I go to sleep, see you tommorrow folks.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Wtf theres no explosion in Griffball anymore??
neoism
Member
I doubt they will do it for the same reasons they didn't for Halo AE....
343 cut assault. No more bomb.
I just find it hilarious 343 built them their own court and gametype. But for league play they use a forged court and a custom grifball gametype.
I'm more interested in how the hammer physics work now. In Halo 3 Grifball half the game was played in the air. It was cool as shit. Launches were so much fun.
Reach grifball sucked.
They didn't do it for CE because CE never had ONLINE gameplay. They would have had to build that infrastructure from scratch.
Halo 2 however...
Yah. Must've been lag or something, because there have been numerous times where someone has used camo and it hasn't shown up on my motion tracker.
I made a clip last week showing it happen. Shitty quality but the guy was crouching against the wall (within motion tracker range) using camo and nothing came up on my screen.
Yeah, I highly doubt 343 will split their current populations into two separate games...
Would likely just be campaign and H4 multiplayer DLC
If they decide to make a smaller one, it'll be Anchor-9 tier (so-so). And have zero-g, no way there won't be zero-g.
That's weird. Could have sworn there were times I've been Camo-bolted on the bottom of Haven and there wasn't shit on the motion tracker. I want to test for myself now..
Edit:
Yeah, same thing here.
what population
Der Flatulator
Member
As far as I know, only movement (position) is heuristically updated. And the 'lenience period' is simply hit scan weapons (including melee) being WYSIWYG.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Alright, so just got done reading through what I missed here and I have to say I am tired of seeing people use the term, "343's new vision for Halo." I am sorry, you don't defend that shit. 343, you inherited a franchise that had expectations. I sound like a broken record, but resources spent on adding all this new superfluous crap to the game should have been spent on simply refining the old formula. Makes me sad to think about what could have been had they not tried to chase an audience that still doesn't give a shit about their game.
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Yeah but the explosion was great. A whole new gametype couldnt have been too hard to code in?
And yeah a Halo 2 remake for the nextbox launch would be fantastic. With all the maps including the Dlc.
If that doesnt happen then id be happy with a pretty big Halo 2 map pack for 4.
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
They do highlight that you're in the vicinity of a camo enemy and you should now be playing in light of that new information. Straight forward if you ask me.
Basically if you start with a rule of thumb the camo guy is at the rough centre of that blue dot radius then you're mostly there for identify where they are. You can also simply choose to sprint away from close range weapons or the camo guy altogether.
It's about enabling player choice based on input. I see blue dots I know to fight a camo guy or flee thereby forcing the camo camper to move or give up on me without gaining a kill.
The only time I feel camo is "cheap" is camo sniping, even then I'm not that annoyed by it that much. Usually I target my map movements to them take that person out using my own camo and cover to traverse the map or enemy lines to achieve that. Same I do for a Mantis or tank etc.
I have to double check on specialisations but from memory wetworks does NOT affect camo radar dots. Might have been lag/latency that created that affect you had.
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
Thank you.
neoism
Member
Guys remember when the halogaf thread when Halo 3 was king.. remember how awesome it was.... I would read one or two pages and instantly want to play 3 all day... customs were a fucking BLAST...Ghal's pic stories was the best...
I wish it was still like that...
I wish halo 4 wasn't a bad game..
I wish...343 knew what they were doing..
I wish.....
I wish it was still like that...
I wish halo 4 wasn't a bad game..
I wish...343 knew what they were doing..
I wish.....
I wish you'd stop whining.
All I know is that Halo 4 is a fun game to me. I have disliked things about the series since Halo 2. I've wanted more nuance in the game since the series existed. I choose to ultimately determine whether the game I buy is worth playing, and that query I ask myself has been answered "yes" in the main for each and every mainline Halo.
"Woulda coulda shoulda" makes for a nice thought experiment.
Seeing some of the stuff NoF was able to do in Reach Action Sack, I wouldn't be surprised if an explosion were easily patched in.
Blue dots are definitely a big step up from red ones. I tend to avoid/ignore camo users, so at least their jamming isn't getting in the way of the rest of my game.
And even though Kill-cams are bugged, they provide a good and probably unintentional check on camo-sniping (doesn't help in BTB unfortunaely).
xxjuicesxx
Member
Demoncarnotaur
Member
So awesome.
I know it is modded, but the under spartan armor is kind of cool.
Thats pretty bizarre looking with the huge helmet, haha.
Oh this is interesting...
In-case it isn't clear what this is, according to modders all of the old armor effects (Inclement weather, pestilence, flaming armor, etc) are in the H4 game files. I wonder if this is simply a case of old code or rather future DLC.
Hm, I wonder if they could patch em in.. I wasn't a big fan, but if they are there why not let us use em.
Don't think Jaime is much of a fan of H4 lol
Hah. I don't disagree, but to say Bungies Halo games were the pinacle of storytelling is a joke also. I would say Halo 2 had an awesome story though, but 3 and Reach fell flat. ODST was pretty awesome as well. Halo 4 is a bit clumsy but it still eclipses the storytelling in Halo 3 and Reach IMO
Yup. IGN or someone will likely have a reveal article tonight/tomorrow.
embargo is probably for map pack?
neoism
Member
Der Flatulator
Member
QFT.
To paraphrase Bob Dylan, "The games they are a changin'." Halo is changing, and it probably won't be the same again. People need to let go of the past, enjoy it in the form that it still exists in, and make do with what we have: a series of great games by great artists, designers and developers.
So is that you getting vaporized?
Ozzy Onya A2Z
Member
A car analogy: If you had a 1990's Porsche 911 Turbo would you still drive that until 2013?
Would you expect the same performance, cornering, acceleration, dashboard, upholstery etc from each successive model? Of course you don't and the majority of people don't drive the same car for more than 10 years.
Personally I change my car every few years and I expect the same from Halo. We've had the same Halo game for CE, 2 & 3 (pretty much the closest to most/all players agreeing on).
Don't you think with ODST, Reach & 4 it was time for the Halo vehicle to change and upgrade?
Even cars have a series 1 and then a series 2 or iterative design to factor in client feedback and "fix" what was screwed up in the initial series 1 change.
Here's hoping 343i have a series 2 for Halo 4...
Also I'm writing up my positive essay on why I like Halo 4, anyone care to add or comment on the table of contents before I finalise and publish it?...
Summary
General
Graphics
Audio
Features
Cut-scenes
Campaign
Missions
Enemies
Story
Terminals
Objectives
SPOPS
Missions
Enemies
Story
Mechanics
AI
War Games
Maps
Gametypes
UI
Matchmaking
JIP
Game Mechanics
loadouts
ordnance drops
base traits
Fiction & Universe
FUD
Books
Community
Waypoint
Developer Support
API
The Car Analogy
F1 = H2
new players = general driving, traffic lights, driving instructor
more features = vans, 4x4, trucks, motorbikes
Conclusion
Would you expect the same performance, cornering, acceleration, dashboard, upholstery etc from each successive model? Of course you don't and the majority of people don't drive the same car for more than 10 years.
Personally I change my car every few years and I expect the same from Halo. We've had the same Halo game for CE, 2 & 3 (pretty much the closest to most/all players agreeing on).
Don't you think with ODST, Reach & 4 it was time for the Halo vehicle to change and upgrade?
Even cars have a series 1 and then a series 2 or iterative design to factor in client feedback and "fix" what was screwed up in the initial series 1 change.
Here's hoping 343i have a series 2 for Halo 4...
Also I'm writing up my positive essay on why I like Halo 4, anyone care to add or comment on the table of contents before I finalise and publish it?...
Summary
General
Graphics
Audio
Features
Cut-scenes
Campaign
Missions
Enemies
Story
Terminals
Objectives
SPOPS
Missions
Enemies
Story
Mechanics
AI
War Games
Maps
Gametypes
UI
Matchmaking
JIP
Game Mechanics
loadouts
ordnance drops
base traits
Fiction & Universe
FUD
Books
Community
Waypoint
Developer Support
API
The Car Analogy
F1 = H2
new players = general driving, traffic lights, driving instructor
more features = vans, 4x4, trucks, motorbikes
Conclusion
complaining that people aren't constructive is always the worst. people here have been posting large constructive posts consistently for years - way before most people reading this thread joined GAF. makes no difference. hell large posts are mostly ignored, we had like 2 or 3 just today.
didn't josh holmes post a picture of a crying baby on his twitter when the first news of halo 4 launched? I'd rather see people vent about the product they paid for than sit here twiddling thumbs and dreaming of an imaginary dialogue between the fragile endangered sensitive game makers and the people who spent money on their game.
didn't josh holmes post a picture of a crying baby on his twitter when the first news of halo 4 launched? I'd rather see people vent about the product they paid for than sit here twiddling thumbs and dreaming of an imaginary dialogue between the fragile endangered sensitive game makers and the people who spent money on their game.
Know what'd blow your mind even more? If they actually showed the UU count of #1 and #20..
YourExWife
Member
STOP! MAKING! SENSE!
xxjuicesxx
Member
What embargo I swear if a bunch of press release nerds got to play the new maps before ME and are going to slap a 9.8 amazing on them while being spoon-fed Mountain Dew Doritos I'm going to shit on my Halo 4 disc.
I agree completely with the rest of HaloGAF on one thing though: classic Halo should absolutely have a matchmaking playlist, and it should absolutely be possible to recreate old settings in custom games. That is the largest oversight/decision 343 could have made. You give the players more options, not less. Always.
Deputy Moonman
Member
With sprint and the fast pace of the game, recognizing blue dots on the screen and instantly being able to go into look-out-for-the-camo-dude seems a stretch. Maybe one on one, but how many times do you run into someone using camo without having bullets flying everywhere from other players? Sounds straight forward on paper, perhaps not so much in a real-time imo.
Silly.Mikey
Banned
Or at least the same amount. But man, the customs now are just a huge step backwards.
Oh my God, I completely forgot about that. Wow.
He's the guy who worked on Turok, right?
If this was in anyway directed toward me, I'm not complaining over the shit-slinging and reductionist posts. I never have, and have always maintained that opinions should be allowed to be expressed, no matter how pointed, critical, insulting or banal. On both sides. The mods can do their job just fine if things get out of hand.
My entire post was explaining the my belief (and reasoning) why 343 won't engage with the community over the merits of Halo 4. I certainly don't speak for them, however, so grain of salt and all that.
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep
Amazing Mic
Neo Member
If people want to vent- fine. But I would not be shocked if many of them are thinking making some big stink is the best way of getting stuff done. Chances of getting anything significant changed isn't great either way- but pages of diarrhea is just horrible reading.
You were the first person to reply to me on this forum, called me a Waypoint kid- had to laugh, because it was want what my 13 Waypoint posts were running from. So much more potential here. In terms people can understand... HaloGAF a year ago when I lurked was H:CE, it's Superman 64 now. It's just drivel.
****
I'm looking to play H4 this weekend. GT is same name, feel free to invite/FR.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Aren't analogies supposed to make logical comparisons?
Halo is not like a car, it doesn't break down and degrade over time, it remains constant. Halo 1 today is still the exact same Halo it was 11 years ago. It still plays well today because it played well 11 years ago. Games don't need to keep with the times. If you have a bunch of shit you want to add to an existing franchise that is going to make it begin to lose its identity, then you shouldn't even touch that franchise.
I get that you're saying that new iterations change, but Halo 4 would probably carry a different name than its predecessors had it been a car.
Hey Kyle, is Halo like the Subarus you buy?
neoism
Member
Der Flatulator
Member
Usually my mindset is strongly subjective to the Convention over Configuration paradigm, but I feel this takes a lot of fun out of Halo. For example, Halo: Reach was heaps of fun at LAN parties where we only played super social gametypes. The latest Halo 4 LAN was boring until we discovered that the Thruster pack scales with movement speed, and instakill SAWs with bottomless clips (do try!). Configuration, or more accurately customisation is and always should be an integral and growing part of Halo.
Would you take 1990's Porsche 911 Turbo and add a spoiler, flame decals, and neon lights to it because you saw a bunch of people do it to their Toyota Supras?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Alright, this is coming from someone who has really enjoyed the game. Up until now.
This shit is already coming to fruition. People don't want to play the "game," they are playing the tools. These games are turning into nothing but exercises in how to abuse game mechanics and not an enjoyable experience. People corner camping with camo, boltshot, using camo with power weapons. Using promethian vision (don't worry it's GREAT!!!!) to stall gameplay. Regen chaining etc. This game is becoming completely "un fun" and I'm really seeing what people are complaining about now.
I already see myself abandoning this game and I even stuck with Reach's bullshit longer than this. I just spent the last two hours getting completely wrecked in infinity slayer by people doing the bullshit I refuse to do and I know I could learn how to "combat" this shit, but that's not the point. I shouldn't have to, the game shouldn't be a "troll's toolbox" but it is.
This shit is already coming to fruition. People don't want to play the "game," they are playing the tools. These games are turning into nothing but exercises in how to abuse game mechanics and not an enjoyable experience. People corner camping with camo, boltshot, using camo with power weapons. Using promethian vision (don't worry it's GREAT!!!!) to stall gameplay. Regen chaining etc. This game is becoming completely "un fun" and I'm really seeing what people are complaining about now.
I already see myself abandoning this game and I even stuck with Reach's bullshit longer than this. I just spent the last two hours getting completely wrecked in infinity slayer by people doing the bullshit I refuse to do and I know I could learn how to "combat" this shit, but that's not the point. I shouldn't have to, the game shouldn't be a "troll's toolbox" but it is.
And the ability to have Safe Havens removed. Although that's probably due to Bungie removing it completely from matchmaking a few months after Reach came out. Safe Havens was something awesome if it would have had some more time put into it, and better settings to actually encourage being in the haven.
False.
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