CambriaRising
Member
The Vox version of the Patriots have Lincoln heads, yes.
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SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion
- Thread starter thomasmahler
- Start date
The Vox version of the Patriots have Lincoln heads, yes.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
I never thought about that. Interesting.
whatevermort
Member
The ones run by the Vox are.
After completing the game, it amazes me how much Levineborrowedripped off wholesale from FRINGE:
Watch this scene (light FRINGE spoilers)
Look at the composition of the shot of New York... the use of zeppelins... stealing advanced technology from other universes for profit... and that fact that the major narrative arc of FRINGE hinges on (HUGE SPOILERS):.a father who steals his child from an alternate universe version of himself
Even the Lady Comstock ghost bit was stolen from Season 4:.Peter appearing as a 'ghost' as he breaks through into the Amberverse
There's a heavy Red - Yellow - Blue color motif in the game that was stolen from FRINGE:
Revenge of the Jedi was stolen from FRINGE's alternate Back to the Future:
There are more visual parallels that I can draw, but I'd be spoiling the show for those who haven't seen it.
You do realize this game was in development since 2008? Surely, they might have borrowd a few things, but alot of media borrows from other places
Miles Quaritch
Member
The story has changed a lot since 2008.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Ha for reals! Damn for only two years thats pretty incredible.
Exclamation-One
Member
FRINGE has also been on the air since 2008.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I found an interesting Easter egg/callback to the original demo during my explorations. Toward the end, before you enter Comstock House, there's a badly destroyed shop on fire with a woman inside sweeping.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
...fuck me, they really did go full meta didn't they?
Hey guys, did you notice on Bookers apartment, during the "dream" sequences, in the ground there is a newspaper...called..... Rapture Tribune
From Bioshock 2 Wikipedia:
"Stanley Poole is a character in BioShock 2. A former reporter for the Rapture Tribune, Stanley was used by Andrew Ryan to spy on Lamb's Rapture Family prior to the Civil War."
Probably more of an easter egg then a direct connection, but still cool!
From Bioshock 2 Wikipedia:
"Stanley Poole is a character in BioShock 2. A former reporter for the Rapture Tribune, Stanley was used by Andrew Ryan to spy on Lamb's Rapture Family prior to the Civil War."
Probably more of an easter egg then a direct connection, but still cool!
FRINGE has also been on the air since 2008.
Means absolutely nothing.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Indeed. I couldn't believe it, I even doubled back to make sure I didn't imagine it and there she was, sweeping. Great Easter egg for those who explored every nook and cranny.
We should totally put together all the trailers from the reveal to release to see just how much the game has changed.
I think this might be the first game that we've seen change so much from initial reveal to end product. It often happens behind the scenes as with Tomb Raider, but it's very visible here. There are still a lot of the original gameplay features/mechanics, but the set pieces, character design, UI, a lot of stuff has changed noticeable with each new demo.
Good catch. The game is seemingly full of similar little Easter eggs. I wonder what else is hidden within Columbia and Booker's apartment/office.
Forsaken82
Member
There's a heavy Red - Yellow - Blue color motif in the game that was stolen from FRINGE:
I can accept your argument for the other 2 complaints you have (although the even the Star Wars one is pushing it given the cultural popularity of the franchise and the timeframe) but to argue that they stole the use of primary colors from Fringe? Seriously? Fringe invented the pop culture use of Primary Colors now?
Exclamation-One
Member
You're telling me that all of the similarities are pure coincidence?
If you've seen the show, the colors are very significant. I'm not even complaining about it, but this seems like an obvious wink to one of the game's major inspirations.
Bioshock has plenty of unique content of it's own, but many of the narrative's major plotlines were taken from the show.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Thats a great idea man.
Going through the thread and reading all the theories is going to give me a nosebleed soon.
I have a couple quick questions:
-Elizabeths powers are not explained right? She just somehow has powers.
-In the reality where you never come for her and you leave her to grow old and let hope slip away do we ever know why you don't make it?
Haha man I loved these guys.
jacksepticeye
Member
It's quite clear some stuff was from Fringe and Lost, very hard to deny some similarities. But even those things stole shit from like Star Trek and Dr.Who. All these kinds of stories and time altering mechanics all sprout from somewhere else. Media always steals from one another.
And who cares if it did? it's still the only game around to actually pull it off successfully and have it's own identity and take on it. Comparing games to other media will always ALWAYS show stuff that was stolen or have similarities between them
Not coincidence but you make it sound like plagirism
And who cares if it did? it's still the only game around to actually pull it off successfully and have it's own identity and take on it. Comparing games to other media will always ALWAYS show stuff that was stolen or have similarities between them
Not coincidence but you make it sound like plagirism
The songbird stops you.
I just wish there was more physical emotion during the last few seconds. Beth just drowns her father and thats it. How about some hesitation between the two or one last good bye. Maybe Booker could have apologize to her. I just needed that extra emotional tug. Thats all I really wanted.
I also didn't like the post credit scene. Commit to something or don't show anything at all. I understand he wants the player to decide but thats just a personal thing. It would have been nice if Booker was shown with her daughter in Paris.
Fringe
If those are different versions of him , why does he remember drowning, ect? Also the twins told booker not to pick 77, but he did and he didn't die. What was the point of that warning?
going to butt in with my own opinon and experience -
Being able to visit mothers grave and have neither booker or liz react was a bit sad.. and then being forced to go to that area again and have them talk.
the fights with the mother are totally shit for me especially the 2nd one...why is it even in there damn.
police shields at comstock house painted red looked not so great.. but that is nitpicking. i guess vox could have neatly put thouse outside and they are actually not the remains of a stand off.. :/
the maps are great but when will we have totally unique enemies..feels like im playing red vs blue team fortress all the time...
Being able to visit mothers grave and have neither booker or liz react was a bit sad.. and then being forced to go to that area again and have them talk.
the fights with the mother are totally shit for me especially the 2nd one...why is it even in there damn.
police shields at comstock house painted red looked not so great.. but that is nitpicking. i guess vox could have neatly put thouse outside and they are actually not the remains of a stand off.. :/
the maps are great but when will we have totally unique enemies..feels like im playing red vs blue team fortress all the time...
CambriaRising
Member
Elizabeth's Pinky was in one universe, and her body in another. This allowed her to open Tears
In the old Elizabeth reality, Booker ALWAYS gets killed by Song Bird.
jacksepticeye
Member
Point 1 we think it's due to her having either been born in one reality and living in another. Or severing her finger meaning her physical body is in two dimension, or both were the source of her powers.
Point 2 something stops you along the way, probably songbird judging by what she says
Wind's Howling
Member
Elizabeth's powers come from the fact that her pinky is one universe and the rest of her in another. That is why she can open up the tears.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
The OT really needs some kind of giant FAQ, the same questions come up soooo many times in this thread. Not dissing, because I had a lot of those questions to immediately after finishing it, but it'd be nice to just have a giant FAQ for people with specific questions, as they tend to be the same few repeatedly.
jacksepticeye
Member
Because his mind created new memories from the last instance he remembered which was being submerged in water, he doesn't remember drowning, he remembers ALMOST drowning but then waking up. Which to me he doesn't, he died and is another Booker who cobbled together memories up to that point.
And picking #77 alerts Comstock and Columbia to his presence, they never said he was gonna die because of it, just not to pick it.
Yeah a LOT of shit was already answered or at least theorised as best we could, but the questions of say something like how Liz got her powers keeps arising
forgeforsaken
Member
They are sort of explained, they are a result of her being in two universes at the same time, from her severed pinky.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I'd do it, but my searching skills are woeful. I can't even find the demo with the clock tower falling/woman sweeping outside the burning building. If someone with better searching skills wouldn't mind doing, it would be greatly appreciated.
1. I'm almost 100% sure we don't learn where her powers come from. They certainly aren't mentioned in any detail.
2. Songbird stops you. That's why she gives you the note, to help you control SB and change that future.
Speaking of, I hated those helmeted freaks when you're searching for Elizabeth. To my shame, I was caught off guard by one after I unlocked the security door to access Elizabeth and nearly fell off my sofa.
NekoFever
Member
DLC.
Wind's Howling
Member
I came to realize that Comstock telling Elizabeth in the zeppelin about her severed pinky actually backfired on him. It almost seemed that Elizabeth was going back, until he came up with that and Booker ended up in a mad rage killing Comstock.
Miles Quaritch
Member
I stand corrected. I must have missed it. I know Lutece talks about Elizabeth in her Vox's, but I didn't hear any mention of where her powers came off. Obviously missed it.
The One Who Knocks
Member
We do (although the Voxophone doesn't make sense until you hear it a second time due to how early you hear it):
"What makes the girl different? I suspect it has less to do with what she is and more to do with what she's not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas with its porridge."
It's definitely the little finger in the original timeline.
jacksepticeye
Member
It's not said outright as far as I remember, this is just what the players have come up with and most people seem to agree with it. Her pinky has some major significance in the game so it seemed the most likely
EDIT: I stand corrected by the one who knocks about it being said outright, I forgot about that Voxophone.
It's on the vox before you first meet with Elizabeth, I think!
"What makes the girl different? I suspect is has less to do with what she is, and rather more with what she is not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas mixed with its porridge. "
Edit: Beaten!
You and everyone else.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
The pinky thing and being born in two different times makes sense. Bad ass thanks guys.
Miles Quaritch
Member
It's on the vox before you first meet with Elizabeth, I think!
"What makes the girl different? I suspect is has less to do with what she is, and rather more with what she is not. A small part of her remains from where she came. It would seem the universe does not like its peas mixed with its porridge. "
Edit: Beaten!
Thanks. It makes complete sense. I'd actually forgotten about that Vox. Second playthrough is going to be killer with all the knowledge and little touches to look out for.
Hehe. I was so expertly done. I rarely fall for jump scares, but it was literally perfectly executed.
It really does. It helps that there's such a great community talking and dissecting the story. I remember the last forum I was on and trying to talk about Bioshock 1, all you'd get were posts about how crappy it was and how stupid the story was. It's invigorating to be surrounded by people actively discussing all possibilities about the story as well as dissecting and pointing out all the little touches some people missed.
The evidence is pretty strongly against your interpretation though. Why do you think his nose keeps bleeding? Elevation? (Actually...)
Hypertrooper
Member
What is the deal with Songbird? I remember hearing a Vox about it, but I could not really pay attention to it because I was in a combat. I mean who created it, why does it have special connection with Elizabeth?
First I thought one twist would have been that DeWitt is Songbird. I mean from a different universe.
First I thought one twist would have been that DeWitt is Songbird. I mean from a different universe.
It is stolen technology from the Big Daddys on Rapture, or at least this is heavly pointed at.
That would also explain his afinity to Elizabeth, since the Big Daddys also had a huge connection to the little sisters they were guarding.
Rodney McKay
Member
As someone who's watched Fringe through twice, I wouldn't call the colors "significant" in any way, other than each reality having its own color.
If Infinite had lens flare effects for the tear stuff, then sure that would be pushing it a bit, but just using Red, Blue, Yellow in a game is not stealing from anything. Games have had primary colors signifying health and magic for decades.
And as far as a lot of the other "stolen ideas": It's an alternate universe storyline. Of course there will be some similarities, especially because Fringe is a show with a lot of episodes and they had to use just about every alternate reality idea/trope possible to fill them with. Parallel ideas? Sure. Stolen? No.
Both having zepplins in them? Come on, the whole game is based around that era or technology, and it's not like one universe had them and the other didn't in the game.
And the
"Peter being a Ghost"
Peter getting erased but still kinda being there for some reason (love or whatever)
Fringe had a chick who could start fire and a dude who could create electricity, did Infinite steal those too?
Do we ever learn exactly what (or who?) the songbird is? We learn late in the game that it's derived from a human a la a Big Daddy (or a Handyman), but is there more info? I feel like I missed something there.
We also have the some information on drawings at one point. This one:
And from the art book:
It actually says that Songbird is the spiritual successor to the Big Daddy.
We also have the some information on drawings at one point. This one:
And from the art book:
It actually says that Songbird is the spiritual successor to the Big Daddy.
Exclamation-One
Member
There are some MAJOR things taken directly from Fringe:
Elizabeth's pinky chopped off by a portal =
Nina's Arm chopped off by a portal
Annabelle being raised by another version of her father =
Peter being raised by another version of his father
Messing with science creating tears in the fabric of reality =
Messing with science creating tears in the fabric of reality!
Lady Comstock's murder due to Elizabeth not being her own child =
Elizabeth's suicide due to Peter not being her own child
Lady Comstock's ghost, stuck between universes/timelines =
Peter's incorporeal form stuck between universes/timelines
Shimmering objects from other universes =
Shimmering objects from other universes
People going crazy because of memories from two or more universes =
People going crazy because of memories from two or more universes (Welcome to Westfield)
The Fink brothers using tears for profit and technological advancement =
William Bell's using windows into the Redverse to build his fortune / Massive Dynamic
There's also discussion in Fringe of
music from other universes
People have been sued for a lot less... look at Harlan Ellison suing over Terminator, for example.
jacksepticeye
Member
Fink saw something like him in a tear and decided to model or make a creature from that' He then gave it to Comstock to protect Elizabeth in the tower. Not much else is said about itDo we ever learn exactly what (or who?) the songbird is? We learn late in the game that it's derived from a human a la a Big Daddy (or a Handyman), but is there more info? I feel like I missed something there.
We also have the some information on drawings at one point. This one:
And from the art book:
It actually says that Songbird is the spiritual successor to the Big Daddy.
I can't disagree with any of this. Plus in some ways the Luteces are like the Observers. I don't think it's bad mind you, just a coincidence. (and I certainly don't think it's worth suing over)
Zen_Arcade
Banned
So does anything different happen depending on which pin you pick for Elizabeth that she wears around her neck for the rest of the game?
I picked the cage and the only thing I noticed that seemed important was that Robert and Rosalind handed me the paper with a cage on it. I guess that just changes to a bird if you picked the other pin?
I picked the cage and the only thing I noticed that seemed important was that Robert and Rosalind handed me the paper with a cage on it. I guess that just changes to a bird if you picked the other pin?
As far as I know, nothing changes based on that "choice".
jacksepticeye
Member
Don't know about the paper part actually, but the choice makes no difference. Like all the choices in the game
The One Who Knocks
Member
The nose bleeds occur due to memories being remembered that have already occurred within the timeline prior to entry or your original memories, it's a strong dissonance that results in physical reactions. This is visible when Booker remembers his death and his nose bleeds. Likewise, it occurs when Booker tries to remember the origin of the severed little finger. There are two times the Luteces show up at the office and Booker opens the door to them. There is the one where he sells Anna to them (this cannot be the scene where Booker is after death because the change by the Luteces don't occur until Columbia and, as a result, this is a shared event that all Bookers experience). This is what we see in the flashback. Note how each mandatory flashback starts where the previous ends, these are all one single memory. We don't play them together because the memory is still suppressed and has been corrupted. We can actually see the corruption in the flashback as we see Elizabeth in the office after he opens the door to the Luteces, he believes he's going to give them Elizabeth (although ironically he does) until the 'truth' is revealed later on and we see the true memory, where the debt is resolved after he gives Anna. Similarly, after the very first one, we see one of the memories he has gained by crossing over; that is New York being destroyed by Elizabeth which Comstock saw in a tear.
There would be no reason for them to go back every single time when they want to bring a new Booker through each event since the twenty (or however many years) is between taking Anna and taking Booker would be exactly the same so the door after death (which is always opening the office door and you are unable to turn around or check the date) is when the Luteces take Booker through universes.
Edit: In addition, every time something changes in the story after a death, we see what changed prior to it as you don't respawn where and when you died, you respawn just before you died (as the enemies gain health and you're in a different location) which means you are another Booker that did everything the exact same upto the point that resulted in his death. If Booker dies in the story, we never saw the different event that occurred to prevent his death.
Edit: also, on the number aspect, I think in the First Lady the coordinate is S122 but I'm not certain on this as I've not reached there yet in my second playthrough so I'll confirm in a few hours.
Edit: Ok, after rewatching the ending, the tear opens in the wall when the Luteces bring him over which increases the possibility that he died in the various mandatory flashbacks and suggest the door opening is all about the Anna segment but if that's the case it goes back to the second paragraph, why we see him open the door when he gives Anna as opposed to simply when the tear opens (although I presume that it is simply to spare the surprise of the story).