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[Beer Monkey]

Forgot that its $60 a year and not $120.
Woops!

Well, I only pay $35 a year. So basically this would be me paying $85 extra a year for two years for a total of $170, to save $200 up front. Even for me it would be a better deal to go on-contract.

So, Paul is wrong. They would never do this. It would have to be $15 a month.

 

[derFeef]

Heh, if the next Xbox really does come with a Windows 8 shell then that makes it WAY easier not to buy it

A what, lol.

 

[Into]

And left millions of broken hearts in its wake.

GT5 was a massive disaster at its launch and was a bad quality product compared to the rest of the series. Unless GT6 on the PS3 really steps up it's game this year and proves GT5 was just a blip on the radar. MS are primed to swoop in on that market with next gen Forza if they can show it's a superior product.

Its still charting in almost every country in the Europe, showing Mario like legs

The issues at launch were mostly about the slow menus, which has been fixed quite a long time ago. The gameplay was top notch day 1, it is why the series is so beloved, it is a actual racing simulator not a arcade-sim hybrid.

MS is not primed to swoop anything with Forza, GT5 the "massive disaster" (your own words) almost sold more than every Forza game combined

Total franchise numbers for Gran Turismo now top 67.8 million units as of September. With sales for Gran Turismo 5 surpassing 9 million units, the single iteration is now closing in on the lifetime sales of the entire Forza franchise which is estimated to be at 12 million which includes Forza Motorsport (original Xbox), Forza 2, Forza 3 and Forza 4.

Link: http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/11/05/...-million-encroaching-on-forza-lifetime-sales/


What you are suggesting is unrealistic

 

[Mindlog]

Always online and 499 bucks for a (rumored) 1.2 TF machine?
Good luck with that MS.

This 1.2 TF line in the sand is comical.

I believe the HDMI in related features will make or break the next X-Box. Right now I'm not too upbeat on either of the new HD Twins. However, if either one produces something interesting I have no doubt that the other will copy adopt it in short order. Probably just wait for version 2 of PS4 with HDMI in.

 

[BuggyDClown]

Fuck. I just rememberd that they got rid of family pack live accounts. Ugh.

 

[Metalmurphy]

"isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe"

So will games work without an internet connection?

"No idea."


...

 

[saladine1]

Sounds good, and the price sounds right, kind of lessens my fear it would be underpowered.


I want Halo, Forza, Gears, etc to look magnificent.

"SuperLifeLikeGraphics" for the win!

 

[True Underdog]

MS stahp.

This rollercoaster of emotions is getting to me.

Is it always online or not?

Outside of announcing the reveal date, MS hasn't said anything.

 

[TriGen]

I honestly don't think it will be a problem this time around.

The Xbox 360 S is built well -- plus the original Xbox 360 was rushed to the market since MS wanted to 1up Sony/Playstation quickly (and because they were bleeding so much money on the original Xbox).

Same here. I think the fact that they went through that makes it more likely they won't let it happen again. Based on their hardware post-launch -- they learned from their 1.4B dollar mistake.

 

[Spongebob]

Sounds good, and the price sounds right, kind of lessens my fear it would be underpowered.


I want Halo, Forza, Gears, etc to look magnificent.

Or...the high price means that Kinect 2.0 is adding a significant amount to the BOM.

The specs have been locked down and haven't changed...

We're still looking at a 1.23TFLOPS GPU (~7770) with DDR3 memory.

I wouldn't call the box underpowered, but the PS4 is in a better position power wise.

 

[Dr.Palutena]

$499 seems high for 7+ possible years of entertainment? I'm not sure why anyone thinks $499 or $599 is ridiculous when you look at how long these consoles last. Apple sends out a new ipad every year for $499. These new boxes will last a minimum of 4 years.

If most consumers thought this way then subscription models that in the end leave you paying much more than if you bought things one time, wouldn't be popular. Certain fans tried to apply thinking like this in comparing the 360 to PS3, when PS3 was 499-599 as to why it is a better overall proposition. But at the end of the day the average consumer has a price point in their head by which certain things are worthwhile purchases which is different for "gaming console/entertainment box" versus a "tablet computer" and for most that threshold for "gaming console" is at the maximum 399. Also the console is gonna provide most consumers with 7+ posible years of entertainment whether they buy it now when they are 499 or later when it is 199 or 299, so most would just wait it out.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

If they go with always online this next-gen, then the next one will get even worst, because they will feel entitle to do as they want.Regarding if you are online all the time or not, people should just reject it.

 

[Tookay]

Outside of announcing the reveal date, MS hasn't said anything.

That's exactly the problem.

Internet-connected. The next Xbox must be internet-connected to use. This is source of the “always on”/“always online” rumors and isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe.

Completely incompatible statements.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

I own all of my NES, SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1, PS2 games, and it matters to me quite a bit. What you are okay with essentially kills collecting on every level, makes it impossible to loan games between friends, makes it impossible to resell your game, etc.

I don't see how anybody can be for this.

That's a fair point. I'm not a collector, I just give my old stuff that is not in use away, or sell it. I see your point though.

Because there's nothing you can accomplish when online is required that you can't also accomplish when it's simply optional. There's no reason to take away a perfectly functional state of a class of devices that's been a baseline of that product class for decades for the sake of online. This isn't about being angry at changes in the status quo simply because they're changes. This is anger over the removal of the status quo when that and the progress in question can both coexist quite well together. If the merit of online services are there, people will naturally gravitate towards them without being forced.

Well, that's from your perspective. I imagine a publisher going to a torrent site and seeing the xbox 360 torrents might go "hmmm". I have no idea how many people mod their Xbox or how much is lost over presale, but Imagine that like with many PC games removal of LAN options in favor of online only, it goes for control and maximizing profits they make more money!

You start out talking about always online, and then start defending digital distribution instead.
What does digital distribution have to do with an online requirement?

I was trying to illustrate doing everything online seems to be the norm. Not just purchasing, but also clearing for anti-piracy, and controlling people from paying the most possible.

I live in Australia, 2 hours out of a major metropolitan region. I pay $100 a month for a shitty 1mb Internet connection that drops out every 15 minutes.

Needing to be connected to play games at all is not something I would embrace.

That sucks really bad, and Aussies are angry in almost any online-game debate I've seen (particularly when they don't get their own servers). I don't know what the solution is for that, but I guess Australia, then might be a lost market for Microsoft. That's Sony's gain then.


Ultimately profit is made on games and DLC. I think they will do anything to get the most out of this.

 

[Marmaladefire]

MS is getting ahead of themselves. Not only do people hate Windows 8 (I don't, personally, but many seem to disagree with me), online required is ALWAYS shady to gamers. Online activation? You're going to use this to kill the used game market. Online to boot games? Do I even own this game that I paid *insert god knows what price we'll be paying next gen*. Is XBL going to be required too?

With this set up someone, somewhere is going to say "fuck this I'm getting a Wii U."

 

[bidguy]

The specs have been locked down and haven't changed...

the rumored specs

 

[soul creator]

Then Thurott is a poor writer. Something like "xbox requires connection to activate games" or "internet connection required, but it doesn't have to be constant" would describe the steam model, not "connection required to operate". But we'll see in May i guess.

He does seem to be a poor writer when it comes to writing about games, since he seems to constantly be perplexed at what the actual complaints gamers have about the phrase "always online". Of course, he's not a super hardcore gamer or anything, so it doesn't really surprise me. And since he probably doesn't really play a lot of single-player games or local multiplayer, that's probably why he's always confused over the issue. I doubt Street Fighter local multiplayer at or a single-player RPG is high on the list of things he thinks about.

Always online/Internet connection required is a vague enough phrase that we can't really judge anything from it on its own, beyond maybe a one-time activation like every other modern device with an app ecosystem. My iPhone is "always online/internet connection required" since I'm always on a data connection, it only goes into sleep mode (hardly ever fully powered down), and I had to sign in to my iTunes account when I first bought it. But I can still use plenty of local content (music, movies, games, apps) without a data connection.

 

[Clefargle]

Connection required
kinect required
subsidized 299+240 over two years
wtf ms?

 

[Spongebob]

the rumored specs

The HEAVILY rumored/leaked specs, that many outlets have reported.

Connection required
kinect required
subsidized 299+240 over two years
wtf ms?

To me it feels as though MS only plan on releasing it in the US or something

 

[Penguins&PolarBears]

I live within a 1 hour drive of microsoft's offices in Redmond washington and my internet goes out about once every fifteen minutes to an hour. Usually its back up in 30-60 seconds but sometimes its down for 15 minutes or more. And Every few months it goes down for hours at a time. I guess on the plus side I will be able to drive to their offices to complain lol.

How do you use Netflix/Amazon Instant/Hulu/HBO Go or play online games??? If your internet goes out that frequently it must be very hard to use these popular video streaming services or to play online games at all.

People who say this stuff should already be complaining to their ISP.

Connection required
kinect required
subsidized 299+240 over two years
wtf ms?

Are you seriously complaining about the subsidized deal which sounds too good to be true?

If the $299 console is the same machine as the $499 you would be really foolish to not take the subsidy. The $299 has to have a smaller HDD or something otherwise MS is crazy.

 

[True Underdog]

That's exactly the problem.

Not disagreeing with you but a lot of people have mentioned Microsoft giving mixed signals, conflicting reports, even spin/damage control even though they haven't even said anything.

"MS stahp" just kind of jumped out at me. MS aren't doing anything (yet).

 

[Izick]

The HEAVILY rumored/leaked specs, that every many outlets have reported.

Weren't there a lot of "PS4 won't play used-games" bullshit before it was clarified that it would? Rumors are rumors. Even these Paul Thurrott rumors are rumors. I happen to trust him more than those other sources, but it's still just rumors.

 

[bidguy]

The HEAVILY rumored/leaked specs, that every many outlets have reported.

exactly. rumors that you try to pass off as facts.
its kinda ridicilous how youre saying that nothing can change with the specs when they couldve been changed already

 

[Twilight Gap]

Still not liking how this sounds. Launch titles will need to be god-tier for this to even be a consideration.

 

[Spongebob]

How do you use Netflix/Amazon Instant/Hulu or play online games??? If your internet goes out that frequently it must be very hard to use these popular video streaming services or to play online games at all.

People who say this stuff should already be complaining to their ISP.

Streaming videos or playing online games actually phyiscally requires one to be online. Both are impossible without an online connection. The same can't be said for single player games.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Weren't there a lot of "PS4 won't play used-games" bullshit before it was clarified that it would? Rumors are rumors. Even these Paul Thurrott rumors are rumors. I happen to trust him more than those other sources, but it's still just rumors.

no reliable rumours at all for the PS4 used games thing. Just people trying to spin things based on a patent. This is in comparison the xbox rumours which have been reported by many reliable sources.

But who knows what they changed in the month delay. They obviously felt the need to panic and change stuff. A month is a long time. For people interested in getting the next xbox, Sony might have done you all a favour on potentially more than one front.

 

[Rat Salad]

(head scratcher) Some are still using the PS4 spec advantage as a bullet point?
Really now.... Eh if anything the Vita puts quite a bad taste in anyone's mouth right now. It was praised as a beast in power but..... just look at what an utter failure that thing has been. And I call bullshit on Live going to $120.00 per year. Never happen. This makes me also doubt the rest of the article's validity. LOL.

 

[Uno Venova]

Weren't there a lot of "PS4 won't play used-games" bullshit before it was clarified that it would? Rumors are rumors. Even these Paul Thurrott rumors are rumors. I happen to trust him more than those other sources, but it's still just rumors.

Not a lot no, just one back in early 2012.

exactly. rumors that you try to pass off as facts.
its kinda ridicilous how youre saying that nothing can change with the specs when they couldve been changed already

Changed when? We've been told they are extremely unlikely to change from insiders here.

 

[DigitalOp]

"isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe"

So will games work without an internet connection?

"No idea."


...

You're on to something here..

Either he's screwing with us ... or he's screwing with us

 

[Spongebob]

Weren't there a lot of "PS4 won't play used-games" bullshit before it was clarified that it would? Rumors are rumors. Even these Paul Thurrott rumors are rumors. I happen to trust him more than those other sources, but it's still just rumors.

Nope, just speculation from a patent that Sony submitted.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Seems like that if MS has thought about their position in regards to Sony. They consider them competition. If they were just the entertainment box they would have just came out and showed it regardless. Who cares if Sony is going for games if your MS? They are targeting an entertainment based person supposedly right?

 

[Punchpudding]

I'm just going to assume the worst that it is internet-required. To be honest that won't really influence my decision much but I could see how it'd be bad. I'm more wondering if MS can actually get me excited about a console otherwise is PC only for me next gen.

 

[Spongebob]

exactly. rumors that you try to pass off as facts.
its kinda ridicilous how youre saying that nothing can change with the specs when they couldve been changed already

Rumors that have come from sources such as EDGE who have been 100% correct with their PS4 rumors.

Dismissing the rumors would be ridiculous.

Edit: You can't change anything significant without causing a massive delay in production, specs have been locked down for months now, that's just how these things work.

 

[AgentP]

the rumored specs

Leaked specs, they come from the Durango SDK.

 

[Izick]

Fair enough. Not going to speculate until we have the facts. Things change, these sites may have the same source feeding them bullshit, or maybe they're right, who knows? I'm just not going to off of any of this shit until we actually see the games, and then see the guts of the console.

 

[Steroyd]

I still don't understand the upset over always online is.


In my country, everything has to be done online. It's almost impossible to go to a bank these days to talk to an accountant. To order an appointment for a doctor, a dentist, or buy a ticket, or anything else, it's more and more, just done online.
I simply think that constantly online is the way of the future, and soon there will be fast internet everywhere.

Using the internet to have access to a bunch of services is one thing, my actual PC being incapable of booting up because it's not hooked to the internet is another.

Making games costs more and more, for every generation. We've established many times how few games actually earn back money. Nobody is going to take risks if there is not a good chance of gaining a profit. I don't mind. They gotta do what they gotta do.

Going into this further would be going off on a tangent to the topic on hand, but to summarise, bloated cost for games is more to do with publishers going for the golden goose that is COD/GTA style sales while being dissapointed that the game "only sold 3 million"

In that respect Sony creating a "blank canvas" of a console and trying to woo the indie scene may ultimately be the better direction in handling this disease in the long run.

It's just strange to me, because this is another one of those angry-at-about-changing-the-status-quo. It upsets me that so many people are holding technology back because they won't let go of their DVD Drives.

It's nothing to do with being scared of new technology it's about enforcing something unnecessarily while offering no benefits to the consumer that a console-while-offline can give.

 

[bsb]

"Isn’t as Draconian as many seem to believe" is quite a selling point. Put that on the box!

 

[Wynnebeck]

exactly. rumors that you try to pass off as facts.
its kinda ridicilous how youre saying that nothing can change with the specs when they couldve been changed already

When you have one rumor? Yeah, scoff at it.

When you have multiple rumors from different sources all saying the same thing? You tend to pay attention.

It's been said too many times but I'll say it again:

"Where there's smoke, there's fire."

 

[nasos_333]

Nope...specs don't matter in the console realm. PS2 was significantly weaker than Xbox and Gamecube, Wii was significantly weaker than PS360....etc etc hell even the PSX was significantly weaker to DC and it still beat it.

But they were cheaper

Xbox 720 does not seem cheap by any means, if of course the prices are true

Wii did so well exactly because was much cheaper than PS3 and 360, if it had the same hardware at PS3 price, would have far less sales

 

[MaulerX]

Or...the high price means that Kinect 2.0 is adding a significant amount to the BOM.

The specs have been locked down and haven't changed...

We're still looking at a 1.23TFLOPS GPU (~7770) with DDR3 memory.

I wouldn't call the box underpowered, but the PS4 is in a better position power wise.

I personally doubt it. The original Kinect was... $56 in parts? And Kinect 2.0 being more capable doesn't mean it'll be more expensive. Especially if they ditched the motorized mechanism. It'll be it's underlying software trickery that will make it shine.

A $500 price does give a small glimpse of hope that "something" might have been improved (even if it's a bit more RAM for the OS leaving more for games).

 

[shandy706]

I still read "must be connected" as required to use all features and possibly to register things (Steam style).

Not as Internet needed to play a game period.

I find jumping to that conclusion incredibly stupid. Lets hope, as I would bet, I'm right.

 

[SniperHunter]

But they were cheaper

Xbox 720 does not seem cheap by any means, if of course the prices are true

Kinect 2.0 says hi

 

[Ninja Moomin]

MS is getting ahead of themselves. Not only do people hate Windows 8 (I don't, personally, but many seem to disagree with me), online required is ALWAYS shady to gamers. Online activation? You're going to use this to kill the used game market. Online to boot games? Do I even own this game that I paid *insert god knows what price we'll be paying next gen*. Is XBL going to be required too?

With this set up someone, somewhere is going to say "fuck this I'm getting a Wii U."

Swap one bad situation for another?

 

[Ninja Moomin]

Does anyone know what DDR3 versus GDDR5 does to the BOM?

Is that equal to kinnect or less?

 

[RobotRocker]

Its still charting in almost every country in the Europe, showing Mario like legs

The issues at launch were mostly about the slow menus, which has been fixed quite a long time ago. The gameplay was top notch day 1, it is why the series is so beloved, it is a actual racing simulator not a arcade-sim hybrid.

MS is not primed to swoop anything with Forza, GT5 the "massive disaster" (your own words) almost sold more than every Forza game combined


Link: http://gamer.blorge.com/2012/11/05/...-million-encroaching-on-forza-lifetime-sales/


What you are suggesting is unrealistic

It still left an impression on the public and the game has a massive amount of problems like the UI and menus still being terrible to navigate (And which still have some poor loading times), poor quality car models and a confusing and grindy career structure. GT 5 was a huge quality blip that required a lot of patching to fix and even then still has problems like the AI still being the uniform robotic drivers, upgrading being confusing and poor online infastructure. GT5 is also a popular bundle game which also accounts for its legs in the charts.

The issue is that GT5 is still a poor Gran Turismo game, especially compared to previous entries in the series, and it's going to have an effect on customer choice next generation unless GT6 is a real return to form. If it's not, Microsoft have an opening in the European market with Forza if they market aggressively.

Customers aren't stupid and aren't going to say "Wait till GT7! It's Still Good! It's Still Good!". They will look for alternatives.

 

[DieH@rd]

$299 + $10 * 24 months = $539.

That seems too cheap when the console by itself is said to cost $499.

Something's fishy here.

You forgot to add 2x $60 to $499 console for 2 year privilege of playing multiplayer games.

 

[Spongebob]

Does anyone know what DDR3 versus GDDR5 does to the BOM?

Is that equal to kinnect or less?

DDR3 is signficanty cheaper than GDDR5.

 

[bidguy]

When you have one rumor? Yeah, scoff at it.

When you have multiple rumors from different sources all saying the same thing? You tend to pay attention.

It's been said too many times but I'll say it again:

"Where there's smoke, there's fire."

eh. it was the same bs everytime so its likely that it was the same source everytime, feeding everyone false information. there was another rumor a few weeks ago which made vgleaks backpaddle with the always online/no used games rumors but no one is talking about that.

 

[oVerde]

Well, lets see, if so new Xbox is 499 or 299+2yr XBLG, i'm fucked.
Subsidized Xbox is not at my country, and as any xbro you can't let your console only on silver.

So, I need to pay 499 (in my country is about 1000$us) + 12$ (20$us) per month. I'll need to sell my house.

 

[Deadstar]

It's not high for everyone, but it's certainly not a mainstream price.

These aren't supposed to be budget machines. I'm not saying $499 is affordable but they simply can't offer a lower price like the old consoles because these last much longer. It's just not possible to send something out $299 or below unless there's some type of subscription tied to it. If price is a factor, people will wait until a price drop.