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Avalanche (Just Cause) - Wii U dev kits collecting dust, Nintendo is hard to reach
- Thread starter Flightmare
- Start date
DragonKnight
Member
Link?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Oh shit. Niro, you have just gone up to a wasp nest and smacked it with a baseball bat. You will want to sleep with pepper spray. I do lol.
We're not going back to blaming the Wii U consumers again are we?
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
They probably don't, but as I said, they were more likely to gamble on future platforms that most of their audience are most likely to gravitate to. The WiiU was never going to lead the development, but they might have considered a port if the platform was doing well.
Apparently it didn't meet expectations though.
Schnozberry
Member
Good to know. Hopefully the completed build is at E3.
Honestly, I will never get people who criticize EA and other publishers for not developing on WiiU 'OMG U MISSING 10MILLION SALES' no they aren't. Look at the WiiU sales and the sales of every single port and even exclusives (ZombiU). They sell for shit. Even if WiiU in some miraculous manner would actually repeat the casual sensation of Wii, then these specific games will still sell for relatively shit; definitely not in millions. The audience culture is highly different between the two consoles and thus favors different genres, and the audience that overlaps already highly likely owns one of the existing consoles.
It's first-and-foremost about the culture these consoles have established, which is an extremely long-term phenomenon, and thus not possible to repair in the short-term with 'hey man come develop a game for us'; no, they would require significant money to be bothered with it, as the sales just do not exist there in any event. The only way Nintendo could possibly retract this would to change their marketing completely and establish studios to develop games like Halo etc, and attempt to capture both, the 'hardcore and casual' audience via targeted games and high specs. But, they haven't done it, and thus, WiiU is destined to be doomed in regards to these specific third-party games.
Again, they are purely business decisions. People buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. I don't blame their first-party being so Mario etc. -heavy, but it's a trade-off they must acknowledge
It's first-and-foremost about the culture these consoles have established, which is an extremely long-term phenomenon, and thus not possible to repair in the short-term with 'hey man come develop a game for us'; no, they would require significant money to be bothered with it, as the sales just do not exist there in any event. The only way Nintendo could possibly retract this would to change their marketing completely and establish studios to develop games like Halo etc, and attempt to capture both, the 'hardcore and casual' audience via targeted games and high specs. But, they haven't done it, and thus, WiiU is destined to be doomed in regards to these specific third-party games.
Again, they are purely business decisions. People buy Nintendo consoles for Nintendo games. I don't blame their first-party being so Mario etc. -heavy, but it's a trade-off they must acknowledge
How did you get that from what I said?
Well yes, the ports sold badly because they were late, and rushed. EA also cannibalised the sales of its own Mass Effect 3 by releasing Mass Effect Trilogy for the other formats at the same time for the same price. It's illogical to pin it solely on the consumer not being interested, when it's things like that being given.
Doubtful. The PlayStation userbase buys third party games, so these companies want to put their games on there. Wii U userbase hasn't bought anything so no one wants to put a guranteed bomba out. The silly userbase bought some shitty Lego game over Monster Hunter, all the shit they get is deserved.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
They have more confidence in Sony/Microsoft not screwing up their next boxes and rightfully so.
Flightmare
Member
It's not just the install base, it's also been difficult for them to work with nintendo, while they praise sony for the opposite.
Again just proof to me Nintendo has it's third party horses that they're willing to ride with. They've got Warner, Ubisoft and (probably) Activision and 2K. Wii U support from those publishers is actually staggeringly good by Nintendo standards.
I think Nintendo brass looks at those western devs, plus the indie scene and whatever japanese partnerships they have, and couples it with their own 1st party software and sees something good.
I think Nintendo brass looks at those western devs, plus the indie scene and whatever japanese partnerships they have, and couples it with their own 1st party software and sees something good.
If you want to ignore the rest of what he said. He made it clear that Sony has been supportive and easy to talk to. Getting developers and publishers on board can sometimes be as easy as getting them excited about what you have to offer and listening to their feedback. Nintendo has done a poor job with support and the WiiU has flopped right out of the gate.
nephilimdj
Member
Except PS3 sold 600,000 in Europe in 2 days alone, and was sold out in USA for a month or 2.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Because it is yet another major dev who won't be supporting Nintendo's current console? That is news.
Flightmare
Member
It's troubling if developers find cooperation with Nintendo difficult.
Twenty7KVN
Member
No these companies have more faith in the ps4 doing well.
Already on it:
So this is Trolling: The Thread, eh?
Mods and members alike. This is fun.
And I wouldn't be surprised to get a ban for pointing this out since thread whining is worse than actual trolling/saying awful things
Really though, if I as a regular gamer can figure out how to contact Nintendo via multiple channels and they as developers can't, I don't know what that says about them.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Also they are lazy developers.
When was the last third party game put on a Nintendo system that was treated the same way as if it was a PS3 or 360 game that did poorly? I can't recall. When games get treated as if they are worth buying by the publisher/developer and that message and feeling is gotten across to the potential buyers the game will do well. When it's treated as an afterthought, not even acknowledged, missing features and there is no attempt to sell the game to customers why should it be expected to sell well?
Nintendo hardware owners are customers first and foremost. You have to sell your product to them. If you don't, don't expect it to sell period. This is the problem I see and the problem with third parties. They feel they don't have to "sell" their games on Nintendo systems and it's customers. Yet have no problem on the PS3 and 360. I say this is the case because all this part generation you see advertisements for PS3 and 360 games. The few Wii games that were done had nothing or the cheapest possible ads at midnight where no one would see them. The lack of acknowledgement of Call of Duty games sometimes until weeks before launch or even not at all.
How do you run a business like that and expect your games to sell? This isn't a charity. No expectations should be made. Want to sell your product to customers (that's what everyone is. Not gamers but customers.) then you need to put in the actual work to do so like every other business in the world big or small. This industry....
I think most 3rd party developers don't want to bother with the Wii U period, sadly to say. Really can't blame them as like many have said before, the Wii U would probably require a custom build versus the PS4/Durango which are basically PCs, and as most Western developers currently in action have come from the PC arena, yeah, they want to develop more to what's comfortable for them. If Nintendo wants more 3rd parties to come along, they'll need to break out the moneyhats and provide support for the West like they are doing with Platinum.
Doesn't matter how profitable they are, in the eyes of the System Warz, they lost, and lost badly, and now has a shadow of folks constantly calling for them to get out of the hardware business and go 3rd party. The Wii only held this attitude back for a short while as it was selling like hot cakes, and now that things are going down south again, it's only going to get worse.
Petrae
Member
Trends.
Despite age, unit sales for 360 and PS3 have been slower to fall since 2010. There's a sense of confidence that Sony & MS are the lead dogs in this race because they're the big players right now.
Conversely, Nintendo's console bubble burst in 2011 and has been deflating since. Relevance is more on Sony & MS and less about Wii, and that has carried over to the first 6 months of this new console generation as sales continue to be exceptionally weak for Wii U.
Publishers believe, based on these trends, that PS4 and the next Xbox will be worth the risk-- even with potentially slow early adoption-- and that those will be the winning horses this gen. Had Wii U hit sooner, while Wii was still dominant, perhaps the story would've been written another way... but, as it stands, I completely understand publisher decisions here.
shinra-bansho
Member
?
2K is a subsidiary of Take-Two and as far as I'm aware the only game they've published for the Wii U is NBA 2K13. I don't think NBA 2K14 has been announced for Wii U, although someone is free to correct.
You're right, a better metric is the absence of upcoming games from pretty much every publisher besides Warner, Ubisoft and Activision.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
Things I learned today:
Wii U install base is still small. This is both expected and a complete shock at the same time.
It's ok to use a studio who has never released any software on Nintendo Hardware regardless of how powerful it was or how large the install base was, as some sort of measure of Nintendo's 3rd party relations.
Nintendo does not want anything to do with these guys but at the same time gave them free dev kits apparently... but that's only because they're depurate.
Wii U install base is still small. This is both expected and a complete shock at the same time.
It's ok to use a studio who has never released any software on Nintendo Hardware regardless of how powerful it was or how large the install base was, as some sort of measure of Nintendo's 3rd party relations.
Nintendo does not want anything to do with these guys but at the same time gave them free dev kits apparently... but that's only because they're depurate.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
At this point, it's just a bullet point on a long list.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
The PS4 reveal was 10x more impressive than the Wii U's first six months. And in terms of money hatting being the reason devs aren't supporting the Wii U, please don't be serious.
It's in Avalanche's best interest that PS4/720 succeed. They'll get the support.
I wish someone would, please, think of the devkits.
Sure, Google translation sucks so we can't know but as of right now it's only one possible interpretation. If they have hardware-related inquiries and don't have anyone to talk to in that regard, that's a fair complaint.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Except devs don't have to sell their games to Wii U customers and they obviously feel it's in their best interest NOT TO or else they would. You must ask WHY third parties feel its not in their best interest to sell their games to Wii U customers.
Tip: It doesn't have anything to do with hating Nintendo or it's customers.
ebullientprism
Member
Yeah cause you sending them an email and getting a copy paste reply is the same as a developers queries.
There's just no reason to develop on Wii U anymore it seems. It doesn't have that giant casual crowd anymore. It's never going to do well as a console for hardcore gamers in the next generation. It's going to be another subpar piece of Nintendo hardware that serves as an outlet for playing awesome games made by Nintendo that no one except gamers like us actually appreciate (Zelda, Metroid, 3D Mario, that shit does not sell as well as it should).
As far as I see it, there are only two proven markets in the console games business: A solid, competitive piece of hardware that goes after the hardcore gamer, and an extremely innovative, attractive device that almost anyone can get behind, with that innovation alone being able to sell someone on the console within seconds of trying it.
Wii U is in neither of those camps.
It will never compete well with PS4/720. It will never regain that casual audience they had with the Wii. Their strategy was to get that casual audience, and they failed. We don't need to let the rest of the generation play out before we can determine that. The innovation isn't selling consoles now, and it's not going to sell them later. Now they're left with an noncompetitive piece of hardware that is attractive to no one.
First party Nintendo games are going to be the only reason to get this system, mostly similar to Gamecube. Gamecube might have been 'profitable', but 20-30 million units (as quoted by someone earlier in this thread) is by no means a 'success' for Nintendo now, especially coming off of the Wii generation. If they did any amount of expanding during the Wii/DS gravy-train days, they're going to need to size right back down to where they were before 2007.
As far as I see it, there are only two proven markets in the console games business: A solid, competitive piece of hardware that goes after the hardcore gamer, and an extremely innovative, attractive device that almost anyone can get behind, with that innovation alone being able to sell someone on the console within seconds of trying it.
Wii U is in neither of those camps.
It will never compete well with PS4/720. It will never regain that casual audience they had with the Wii. Their strategy was to get that casual audience, and they failed. We don't need to let the rest of the generation play out before we can determine that. The innovation isn't selling consoles now, and it's not going to sell them later. Now they're left with an noncompetitive piece of hardware that is attractive to no one.
First party Nintendo games are going to be the only reason to get this system, mostly similar to Gamecube. Gamecube might have been 'profitable', but 20-30 million units (as quoted by someone earlier in this thread) is by no means a 'success' for Nintendo now, especially coming off of the Wii generation. If they did any amount of expanding during the Wii/DS gravy-train days, they're going to need to size right back down to where they were before 2007.
StreetsAhead
Member
Yes, of course I was referring to customer service LOL. Seriously?
shinra-bansho
Member
What did EA do to make their late, feature-bare 360 SKU of Madden in 2005 worth buying; how did they convey that message of worth?
prag16
Banned
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
I like your approach.
ITP: Sony didn't screw up their last two hardware launches.
They sure did with the PS3.
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
ITP: Sony didn't screw up their last two hardware launches.
Sony has had third oarty support on every console? They also were much closer in specs to the 360 than Wii U is to PS4/NextBox. PS3 also never sold as bad as the Wii U is. Think about that. A $600 console never sold as badly as the Wii U.
Not this badly they didn't.
DragonSworne
Banned
Crazy Theory Alert!!
What if there was no catch 22? What if the reason why developers don't want to make games on Nintendo consoles is because of Nintendo themselves?
Could it possible be bad management at Nintendo that results in poor Third party support? That no matter how many systems they sell, they'll have bad third party support because of this?
Could it really be Iwata's fault?
What do you say banana?
What if there was no catch 22? What if the reason why developers don't want to make games on Nintendo consoles is because of Nintendo themselves?
Could it possible be bad management at Nintendo that results in poor Third party support? That no matter how many systems they sell, they'll have bad third party support because of this?
Could it really be Iwata's fault?
What do you say banana?
Was there anything else of note to buy for the 360 when it launched?
SniperHunter
Banned
Nintendo probably doesn't believe in Avalanche, they probably think they are a mediocre developer not worth their time.
Iwata should play Just Cause 2
Iwata should play Just Cause 2
Flightmare
Member
COD2, Kameo, Perfect Dark
The Wii U userbase didn't buy 3rd party games at full price that were already released on the ps3/360? I'm sure there was quite a hesitation when deciding whether to buy ME3 at $60 or get the whole trilogy.
I'm curious how the third party launch games did on the 360 and ps3...
It's been fascinating to watch the image of Nintendo on NeoGAF over the past few months slowly turn into this.
It's the banana's fault. I knew it all along!