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[AceBandage]

That doesn't make it right...

Make what right?
That Nintendo uses ideas that they are given?

Heaven forbid!

 

[YoungFa]

Make what right?
That Nintendo uses ideas that they are given?

Heaven forbid!

Im not talking about using the ideas, there is nothing wrong with that. But you don't take credit for someone elses work. That is not marketing that just blatant lying and it is disrespectful to your employees.

 

[AceBandage]

Im not talking about using the ideas, there is nothing wrong with that. But you don't take credit for someone elses work. That is not marketing that just blatant lying and it is disrespectful to your employees.

How do we know they weren't given credit?
We don't know who supposedly "gave" them these ideas.

 

[YoungFa]

How do we know they weren't given credit?
We don't know who supposedly "gave" them these ideas.

Well we would know, that's how giving credit works...

 

[Gravijah]

Im not talking about using the ideas, there is nothing wrong with that. But you don't take credit for someone elses work. That is not marketing that just blatant lying and it is disrespectful to your employees.

If Nintendo owns the ideas, it is Nintendo's work.

 

[YoungFa]

If Nintendo owns the ideas, it is Nintendo's work.

I was especially referring to the first quote of the OP, maybe I should have pointed that out more clearly:

The concept of Pikmin, for example, was borrowed directly from an unpublished RTS (real-time simulation game) proposed by a creators years before the game’s release. Thus, the official story (Miyamoto got the idea for Pikmin by observing animal life in his garden) is just a clever narrative, fabricated for marketing purposes.

 

[AceBandage]

Miyamoto came up with Pikmin in his garden.
Doesn't mean he came up with every single nuance for the game at the same time.
One of the designers on the Pikmin games could have been the one that proposed the RTS style elements.

 

[Gravijah]

I was especially referring to the first quote of the OP, maybe I should have pointed that out more clearly:

The thing is, maybe Miyamoto was inspired by animal life in a garden. Maybe the prototype was some generic RTS about space orcs and ghost elves that Miyamoto used as a foundation.

 

[YoungFa]

The thing is, maybe Miyamoto was inspired by animal life in a garden. Maybe the prototype was some generic RTS about space orcs and ghost elves that Miyamoto used as a foundation.

Thats just the problem with the source. The website is saying that alle the garden stuff is made up, so it is word against word until one is proven wrong.

 

[KittenMaster]

This is why I hate when the notion of having ideas gets put on such a huge pedestal. People tend to want to find ways of discrediting ideas to make person/company look worse when the end result is great regardless.

 

[Kato]

I was especially referring to the first quote of the OP, maybe I should have pointed that out more clearly:

So? Concept for RTS is there. Nintendo at that time has no idea what to do with concept and shelves it.

Years later...

Miyamoto is enjoying a cocktail in his garden while sporting a trendy yellow Speedo. Aww look at those flowers and creatures and ...wow girl next door looks pretty in her bikini..(takes pictures with gameboy camera)... all that stuff lying around. What if I could make something of it.. wait a minute we do have that RTS concept laying around. Maybe if.... Pikmin was born..Next door girl went inside..

And the story is not in any way or form marketing for the masses. The commercials did not speak of it. The box is not stating: MADE BY MIYAMOTO WHILE WEARING YELLOW SPEEDO - 5/5 IGN.

 

[Mael]

It's a lie, along with their other 3DS rumour (the Wii U one is so vague that it could possibly be based on some truth though).

01 Net may not be lying on purpose, but someone is definitely feeding them bullshit.

Well I'd say the rumour about the 3DS/Wii U may have a basis on reality kinda like how Pachter always talked about the WiiHD, it might have been considered but never went beyond actual idea or maybe Nintendo was talking to 3rd parties about that and that's how they learned about it.
But that's not exactly the damaging part of the articles anyway.
I also wouldn't be so quick as to dismiss them, I do know that if this set of articles reach their print edition (01Informatique) I'd need confirmation that it's BS since they're not exactly IGN.

Pour les français, ça serait comme comparer les rumeurs du Canard enchainé et les nouvelles du Monde. Y'en a qu'on peut considérer comme des bruits de couloirs et d'autres qui ont plus de poids.

Then in total journalistic fashion they can always issue an apology or something....and destroy their credibility in the process.
Interesting to follow anyway, I never saw the leap of thought that lead from Mario 128 to Galaxy anyway and always assumed that was in some part of the demo I didn't catch. That could explain why :lol.

And lying to investors is nothing something to be taken lightly at all!

So? Concept for RTS is there. Nintendo at that time has no idea what to do with concept and shelves it.

Years later...

Miyamoto is enjoying a cocktail in his garden while sporting a trendy yellow Speedo. Aww look at those flowers and creatures and ...wow girl next door looks pretty in her bikini..(takes pictures with gameboy camera)... all that stuff lying around. What if I could make something of it.. wait a minute we do have that RTS concept laying around. Maybe if.... Pikmin was born..Next door girl went inside..

And the story is not in any way or form marketing for the masses. The commercials did not speak of it. The box is not stating: MADE BY MIYAMOTO WHILE WEARING YELLOW SPEEDO - 5/5 IGN.

And we're supposed to disregard all the interviews that hyped the game about how Miyamoto came out with the idea?
Anyway that would really explain why their new content is always so barren lately.

 

[Rhod]

Thats just the problem with the source. The website is saying that alle the garden stuff is made up, so it is word against word until one is proven wrong.

If you credit every source with the same weight, you will end up with all manner of funny ideas about the world.

 

[Kato]

Well I'd say the rumour about the 3DS/Wii U may have a basis on reality kinda like how Pachter always talked about the WiiHD, it might have been considered but never went beyond actual idea or maybe Nintendo was talking to 3rd parties about that and that's how they learned about it.
But that's not exactly the damaging part of the articles anyway.
I also wouldn't be so quick as to dismiss them, I do know that if this set of articles reach their print edition (01Informatique) I'd need confirmation that it's BS since they're not exactly IGN.

Pour les français, ça serait comme comparer les rumeurs du Canard enchainé et les nouvelles du Monde. Y'en a qu'on peut considérer comme des bruits de couloirs et d'autres qui ont plus de poids.

Then in total journalistic fashion they can always issue an apology or something....and destroy their credibility in the process.
Interesting to follow anyway, I never saw the leap of thought that lead from Mario 128 to Galaxy anyway and always assumed that was in some part of the demo I didn't catch. That could explain why :lol.

And lying to investors is nothing something to be taken lightly at all!



And we're supposed to disregard all the interviews that hyped the game about how Miyamoto came out with the idea?

Why or why not? Does it make it a better or worse game with or without the story? Did it make you buy the game because it was based on Miyamoto's garden? Did it made the reviewers grade the game higher?

If anything it's just a funny tidbit about the conception of the game. Made by Miyamoto is good enough for any game but Miyamoto is vocal about the idea's behind the games. He did it with OoT, Mario and every other game he was/is involved in. IIRC there was something about a wooden sign being cut and drift away in the river in OoT story. OoT was not better or worse for it. It just made the development and background of the game funnier to read.

I would read Miyamoto's thoughts about games a heap of times more than technical stuff by Carmack or one of the hundreds lies and exaggerations coming from Molyneux.

 

[YoungFa]

I would read Miyamoto's thoughts about games a heap of times more than technical stuff by Carmack or one of the hundreds lies and exaggerations coming from Molyneux.

But that's the point. The accusation is that part of it is just marketing talk while people like Carmack are actually talking tech.

 

[Mael]

Why or why not? Does it make it a better or worse game with or without the story? Did it make you buy the game because it was based on Miyamoto's garden? Did it made the reviewers grade the game higher?

If anything it's just a funny tidbit about the conception of the game. Made by Miyamoto is good enough for any game but Miyamoto is vocal about the idea's behind the games. He did it with OoT, Mario and every other game he was/is involved in. IIRC there was something about a wooden sign being cut and drift away in the river in OoT story. OoT was not better or worse for it. It just made the development and background of the game funnier to read.

I would read Miyamoto's thoughts about games a heap of times more than technical stuff by Carmack or one of the hundreds lies and exaggerations coming from Molyneux.

You said

And the story is not in any way or form marketing for the masses.

Well yeah it's pretty much marketing for the masses

 

[Gravijah]

And we're supposed to disregard all the interviews that hyped the game about how Miyamoto came out with the idea?
Anyway that would really explain why their new content is always so barren lately.

How would Nintendo having a treasure trove of prototypes that they use to make games from explain why their content is so barren nowadays?

 

[fabricated backlash]

But that's the point. The accusation is that part of it is just marketing talk while people like Carmack are actually talking tech.

if you think that Carmacks tech talk is anything but marketing you must be surely delusional. Especially with Carmack PR builds him up as the sole mastermind behind all the Id tech developed over the years. As if he was the only one coming up with it.

He never said that himself, but it's the same public perception that credits Miyamoto for everything at Nintendo.

I think it's pretty clear at whom this article is aimed, and its effectiveness here on GAF boggles my mind. Like a leaf in the wind.

 

[BurntPork]

Oh man, what new trolling piece of news will release 01.net today.

Reggie is the rapist in Lincoln Park.

 

[Mael]

How would Nintendo having a treasure trove of prototypes that they use to make games from explain why their content is so barren nowadays?

Well consider the fact that their most interesting project gamewise lately are sports game with the most minimal content possible and a pet simulator :/
Consider the fact that on their last 3/4 Zelda games have either been OoT retread or content that clashes totally with Zelda's universe (train for example).
Mario has either no new content at all (nsmbs) or content put in a blender to make players go through obstacle courses in the most abstract possible way (Galaxies)
I won't even go into Metroid who either got shat on or was not made by Ncl.
This totally explains why there's literally no new content made at Ncl since they can always go their treasure of prototype, mesh it into one of their existing franchises and call it a day.

 

[Triton55]

Has this part of the article not been discussed?

I apologize to our English-speaking readers if my translation of Part I was somewhat ambiguous. Some apparently got it right, some got it wrong. About a possible 3DS redesign (coming not from our main source, but from several secondary sources), I said “to tone down the whole “3D” angle”. That doesn’t mean Nintendo would in any way abandon the 3D functions, but that they would cease to be the main selling point, i.e. it would become “just another feature”.]

I thought this was fairly obvious, but a lot of game journalists got reported it wrongly.
Also worth noting that the 3DS redesign rumors came from "several secondary sources" and not the supposed Nintendo insider... which probably makes it more believable given the most recent rumors.

 

[YoungFa]

if you think that Carmacks tech talk is anything but marketing you must be surely delusional. Especially with Carmack PR builds him up as the sole mastermind behind all the Id tech developed over the years. As if he was the only one coming up with it.

He never said that himself, but it's the same public perception that credits Miyamoto for everything at Nintendo.

I think it's pretty clear at whom this article is aimed, and its effectiveness here on GAF boggles my mind. Like a leaf in the wind.

I didn't say it is not marketing, he isn't making stuff up just for marketing purposes, he might be exaggerating but it isn't based on fiction.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

And lying to investors is nothing something to be taken lightly at all!

Despite your assertions to the contrary, they never lied to investors.

Well, maybe you're right? "Hi guys, we bought prototypes from some third parties to help design the very first iterations of Galaxy."

The stockholders freak out. They throw papers in the air, puzzles, dazed and confused, angrier than ever. They start shouting things neither you nor me could ever hope to hear without our grandmothers dying. And they scream as a unit "you lied to us Nintendo! You lying, lying liars!" Entropy rules the streets. The world is at peril.

Or, maybe, this prototyping (and inspiration for Pikmin business) is not new, not novel, and nobody cares but you and a handful of other people in this thread.

 

[Mael]

Has this part of the article not been discussed?



I thought this was fairly obvious, but a lot of game journalists got reported it wrongly.

Pretty funny because it was pretty clear in the text material, game journalism everyone.

Despite your assertions to the contrary, they never lied to investors.

Well, maybe you're right? "Hi guys, we bought prototypes from some third parties to help design the very first iterations of Galaxy."

The stockholders freak out. They throw papers in the air, puzzles, dazed and confused, angrier than ever. They start shouting things neither you nor me could ever hope to hear without our grandmothers dying. And they scream as a unit "you lied to us Nintendo! You lying, lying liars!" Entropy rules the streets. The world is at peril.

Or, maybe, this prototyping (and inspiration for Pikmin business) is not new, not novel, and nobody cares but you and a handful of other people in this thread.

They were pretty clear when they said how they came with the ideas for Galaxy and Pikmin. That you consider such a blatant lie to be inconsequential is really unimportant in the end.
A lie is a lie and in this case when asked how they did come up with the idea they really lied.
And it was in an investor Q&A to boot, pretty clear that if they lie about that they're not to be trusted.

 

[Kato]

You said
Well yeah it's pretty much marketing for the masses

Well it's all about perception. For me the story was a mere answer to the question in an interview and not a marketing ploy to run with. Where did the idea of Pikmin come from? Miyamoto then answered with what I believe to be a true answer.

Making movies or games and writing books is all about inspiration and creative minds. There was a concept like there are more concepts being bought, made, sold etc. Concepts itself do not make good books/movies/games. Creative minds and inspiration do. And when he got the inspiration for Pikmin it was used in the RTS concept. So I should not stated the marketing bit as fact for that my apologies. But for me the whole 01net is fishy at best.

 

[Fantastical]

I didn't say it is not marketing, he isn't making stuff up just for marketing purposes, he might be exaggerating but it isn't based on fiction.

We've already had this conversation. While Miyamoto may not have personally come up with every idea for Pikmin, what he did comment on is that he based the game around on his experiences in his garden. These two pieces of information can coexist if the rumor is true. By the time Miyamoto saw this prototype, it probably didn't involve anything that looked like Pikmin. This is of course speculation on my part, but I would think a prototype would be fairly bare bones in terms of overarching concepts in the game.

Would it be that far off to say that Miyamoto saw this prototype and think "Hey, what if took place in a garden..." yada yada yada?

They were pretty clear when they said how they came with the ideas for Galaxy and Pikmin.

Where? Show me where they said this. I have honestly been looking for the Miyamoto quotes.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I didn't say it is not marketing, he isn't making stuff up just for marketing purposes, he might be exaggerating but it isn't based on fiction.

And your proof of Miyamoto straight out lying about everything is? It's sickening how willingly people buy into this narrative without a second thought because of the company involved.

Seems the vultures are happy to finally get a bite out of Nintendo after singing the Wii is a fad song for 5 years straight.

So my source told me that Iwata drank the souls of orphans before engaging in perverted sex orgies and stealing the design of the Wii U from a poor little one legged war veteran from Iraq while he was asleep. Then he murdered his family in front of him, shot his dog and cut off his dick and fed it to him. Obviously Nintendo never would've been able to come up with the idea of the Wii U themselves, so they resorted to their psycho killer Iwata to get the concepts and get rid of the wittnesses.

We obviously can't confirm that but our source told us so, and hey, we got one or two pieces of rumour right in the past, so rumours on our site mean truth, don't you forget that. Especially when those rumours are presented in a sensationalistic fashion that would make the chief editors of the Sun or the Bild shake their head in disbelief.

 

[GDGF]

Doesn't Nintendo usually make gameplay prototypes before they begin character and story creation anyway?

The Pikmin prototype was probably a bunch of colored cubes on a checkerboard background that played like an RTS.

 

[Mael]

Well it's all about perception. For me the story was a mere answer to the question in an interview and not a marketing ploy to run with. Where did the idea of Pikmin come from? Miyamoto then answered with what I believe to be a true answer.

Making movies or games and writing books is all about inspiration and creative minds. There was a concept like there are more concepts being bought, made, sold etc. Concepts itself do not make good books/movies/games. Creative minds and inspiration do. And when he got the inspiration for Pikmin it was used in the RTS concept. So I should not stated the marketing bit as fact for that my apologies. But for me the whole 01net is fishy at best.

Well this is an investor Q&A
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/101029qa/index.html

the funny thing is it's actually misleading rather than an outright lie.
Anyway the majority of the company is owned by Yamauchi I believe so who cares as long as he knows how it goes heh
I'm sorry I can't scavange all the quotes for now since I don't have access to most sites here.

 

[Fantastical]

They were pretty clear when they said how they came with the ideas for Galaxy and Pikmin. That you consider such a blatant lie to be inconsequential is really unimportant in the end.
A lie is a lie and in this case when asked how they did come up with the idea they really lied.
And it was in an investor Q&A to boot, pretty clear that if they lie about that they're not to be trusted.

Well this is an investor Q&A
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/101029qa/index.html

the funny thing is it's actually misleading rather than an outright lie.

And the backpeddling begins. I think it's more the fans that took that the Miyamoto quotes and fit them to what they want to think. But then, does anyone really think that Miyamoto came up with every stage of Pikmin development?

Plus this rumor may not even be true. >_>

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

the funny thing is it's actually misleading rather than an outright lie.

It's not even that much. As others have said, it's very possible and likely that Miyamoto could come up with the premise before the gameplay to match it up. Then later he combines them and presents them to his peers.

Have you ever made something remotely creative? You get ideas from everything around you. A single game doesn't pop into your brain instantly. Anyone expecting that is crazy. You could think that the question-asker in that link was assuming this, or you can assume that he knows how the world works and that he knows Miyamoto didn't instantly, without any external source, create Pikmin in his garden one day, and go from there.

 

[Fantastical]

WOAH INFORMATION LEAK

Today's rumor will be about Nintendo cutting the RAM in the new 3DS redesigned systems, making previous 3DS games unplayable.

But apparently if there is enough developer outcry, Nintendo may not go through with the decision.

Spoiler

>_>

 

[Mael]

It's not even that much. As others have said, it's very possible and likely that Miyamoto could come up with the premise before the gameplay to match it up. Then later he combines them and presents them to his peers.

Have you ever made something remotely creative? You get ideas from everything around you. A single game doesn't pop into your brain instantly. Anyone expecting that is crazy. You could think that the question-asker in that link was assuming this, or you can assume that he knows how the world works and that he knows Miyamoto didn't instantly, without any external source, create Pikmin in his garden one day, and go from there.

And the backpeddling begins. I think it's more the fans that took that the Miyamoto quotes and fit them to what they want to think. But then, does anyone really think that Miyamoto came up with every stage of Pikmin development?

Plus this rumor may not even be true. >_>

FFS people, it's really part of the link I gave he talks about some of his hobbies were made into games and all.
Seriously I'm pretty sure there's an interview somewhere with this, it shouldn't be too hard to find (I can't search now so you'll have to search or wait for that).
About wiifit, I'm pretty sure in the IA he talked about how he got the concept from weighing himself so you've got here an example of putting Miyamoto as the gamegod of Nintendo handing ideas from his immortal hands to mere mortals if you want one.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

FFS people, it's really part of the link I gave he talks about some of his hobbies were made into games and all.
Seriously I'm pretty sure there's an interview somewhere with this, it shouldn't be too hard to find (I can't search now so you'll have to search or wait for that).
About wiifit, I'm pretty sure in the IA he talked about how he got the concept from weighing himself so you've got here an example of putting Miyamoto as the gamegod of Nintendo handing ideas from his immortal hands to mere mortals if you want one.

And my post just discussed this. If you're not going to read my post, then why are you posting on a forum?

To reiterate, nobody is assuming that Miyamoto creates entire games instantly from his hobbies without any external help or inspiration. Well, maybe you. But it's not even a defense of Miyamoto. It's common sense that one man doesn't design entire games overnight.

EDIT: And I will add that not even the link proposes this.

 

[Mael]

And my post just discussed this. If you're not going to read my post, then why are you posting on a forum?

To reiterate, nobody is assuming that Miyamoto creates games instantly from his hobbies without any external help or inspiration. Well, maybe you. But it's not even a defense of Miyamoto. It's common sense that one man doesn't design entire games overnight.

And you claim that people who don't read posts shouldn't comment?
My whole point was that their marketing in based on approximations and lies.
That they said that they got the idea from SM's ideas when really they already had prototypes that they adapted and the content was then added thereafter is really not the same thing at all.
I mean if really the whole Wiifit project was just some former protos that they had instead of just SM finding some activity being fun it's really, really different, no way to really spin it.

On top of that it's really Pikmin is really not the problem rather than the whole Mario 128 being really something else entirely than what we got in galaxy (although they cleverly try to pin the demo as leading to Mario 64 DS or maybe sunshine or is it galaxy)

 

[TimeKillr]

I've said that as well but people won't believe you unless you give names and sources and put their careers in jeopardy

Yep and I'm not about to fuck up the careers of good friends of mine.

Some people know I'm a dev, though. Hopefully it'll lend some credibility to the whole thing.

Someone else told me this week (he worked at a big publisher before working with me and was there when they received 3DS prototypes. He's also a designer.) that Nintendo initially wanted dual analogs on the 3DS and that they were told there would be dual analogs very early on but were later told "Miyamoto doesn't want dual analogs" so they were cut. Now as to how true that is I have no idea (it's one guy I work with who told me that) but he has been in the industry for about.. 12 years now? He's not one to lie.

So even he is saying the analog 2nd stick addon is probably not in the realm of fantasy, although it might never see the light of day (like other crap; Vitality Sensor anyone?)

 

[Kato]

FFS people, it's really part of the link I gave he talks about some of his hobbies were made into games and all.
Seriously I'm pretty sure there's an interview somewhere with this, it shouldn't be too hard to find (I can't search now so you'll have to search or wait for that).
About wiifit, I'm pretty sure in the IA he talked about how he got the concept from weighing himself so you've got here an example of putting Miyamoto as the gamegod of Nintendo handing ideas from his immortal hands to mere mortals if you want one.

Haha. You really don't like Miyamoto huh?
You really are out on a crusade just to get a "HAH GOT YA MIYAMOTO". "You did not do some gardening or weight watching and came up with an idea for a game.... "

Why is it so hard to accept the idea it really does come from his hobbies? His job is creating new idea's for games. Its what the whole company is about. Nintendo is a (toy-) game company. No more no less. So they go around daily creating or trying to create fun (in the eye of the beholder) games for all ages.

Same goes for Goichi Suda although it's not for all ages and I hope it's not coming from his hobbies Although as creative director for Lollipop Chainsaw I can only guess.

 

[Deleted member 10571]

Can we ban this website already?

Yes please.

 

[Mael]

Haha. You really don't like Miyamoto huh?
You really are out on a crusade just to get a "HAH GOT YA MIYAMOTO". "You did not do some gardening or weight watching and came up with an idea for a game.... "

Why is it so hard to accept the idea it really does come from his hobbies? His job is creating new idea's for games. Its what the whole company is about. Nintendo is a (toy-) game company. No more no less. So they go around daily creating or trying to create fun (in the eye of the beholder) games for all ages.

Same goes for Goichi Suda although it's not for all ages and I hope it's not coming from his hobbies Although as creative director for Lollipop Chainsaw I can only guess.

That's not the problem, I don't even give a shit about that.
Really, the problem is if they mentioned that to investors then it's really lying to investors and that's really illegal and not to be taken lightly.
Who cares how they came to the idea as long as it's not part of their marketing scheme to try to sell their wares it's of no matter.
And as a customer I really hate being lied to (hence my hate of OtherM)

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

And you claim that people who don't read posts shouldn't comment?
My whole point was that their marketing in based on approximations and lies.
That they said that they got the idea from SM's ideas when really they already had prototypes that they adapted and the content was then added thereafter is really not the same thing at all.
I mean if really the whole Wiifit project was just some former protos that they had instead of just SM finding some activity being fun it's really, really different, no way to really spin it.

Christ almighty.

You're think of game design as a monolithic thing, that games are designed once and then done. That's not how game design works. It's iterative, long, with many stages and evolutions along the way. Thus, say Miyamoto kicks it off with some twenty page book of ideas on what he wants for a game, and then he and the other senior members play with other mechanics to see what works and what doesn't.

The investors know this. The investors know that just because Nintendo says "Miyamoto got the idea from this game from his garden!" doesn't mean he was influenced or taking ideas from dozens of others along the way. No creativity exists in a vacuum. Miyamoto is not some insane machine that pops out pressed Gamecube discs.

What I don't get is why you think anyone believes this.

A single game like Galaxy was likely prototypes both internally and externally dozens, if not hundreds of times. Every game company does this to make sure the game works and is fun. I don't know why you seem to think that companies paid by Nintendo are not valid places to get ideas from.

Nintendo is not lying to their investors. Both stories can co-exist. It's very easy to make it work together once you understand how game development works.

 

[Mael]

Christ almighty.

You're think of game design as a monolithic thing, that games are designed once and then done. That's not how game design works. It's iterative, long, with many stages and evolutions along the way. Thus, say Miyamoto kicks it off with some twenty page book of ideas on what he wants for a game, and then he and the other senior members play with other mechanics to see what works and what doesn't.

The investors know this. The investors know that just because Nintendo says "Miyamoto got the idea from this game from his garden!" doesn't mean he was influenced or taking ideas from dozens of others along the way. No creativity exists in a vacuum.

A single game like Galaxy was likely prototypes both internally and externally dozens, if not hundreds of times. Every game company does this to make sure the game works and is fun. I don't know why you seem to think that companies paid by Nintendo are not valid places to get ideas from.

Nintendo is not lying to their investors. Both stories can co-exist. It's very easy to make it work together once you understand how game development works.

FFS I know how computing projects are made, that's not the problem.
The problem is their communication to investors.
If they said to investors : 'there's faery dust in all manuals of Galaxy', there'd better be.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

FFS I know how computing projects are made, that's not the problem.
The problem is their communication to investors.

Except that the investors are not assuming Miyamoto is popping out Gamecube discs like a machine like you seem to think they do.

"FFS" it's like you're purposefully missing my posts so you can rail against the company. It's also like you're only reading the first sentence of my posts and not looking at what I'm saying.

 

[Mael]

Except that the investors are not assuming Miyamoto is popping out Gamecube discs like a machine like you seem to think they do.

"FFS" it's like you're purposefully missing my posts so you can rail against the company.

If you want to see me rail against Nintendo, we can talk about Other M.
It's a publicly traded company, they must be wary of what they say because they've got legal obligations to them.

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

If you want to see me rail against Nintendo, we can talk about Other M.
It's a publicly traded company, they must be wary of what they say because they've got legal obligations to them.

They've said nothing that could be argued as lying. I've been explaining this for a long, long time and you've yet to point out the flaw in my logic.

If Nintendo said, "Miyamoto made this game without any other inspiration or design assistance in his garden" then you'd have a platform.

But they have said, "Miyamoto came up with the idea of this game in his garden." And that is not the same.

The difference is gigantic.

 

[Mael]

They've said nothing that could be argued as lying. I've been explaining this for a long, long time and you've yet to point out the flaw in my logic.

If Nintendo said, "Miyamoto made this game without any other inspiration or design assistance in his garden" then you'd have a platform.

But they have said, "Miyamoto came up with the idea of this game in his garden." And that is not the same.

The difference is gigantic.

And this is false, because they were working on the game BEFORE SM found the idea in his garden.

 

[Shiggy]

And this is false, because they were working on the game BEFORE SM found the idea in his garden.

Apparently they came up with a gameplay concept, still it can be true that Miyamoto came up with the graphical ideas - using nature and Pikmin as a setting.

It's not as if they said that Miyamoto developed this game alone in his garden within one week or so.

 

[Mael]

Apparently they came up with a gameplay concept, still it can be true that Miyamoto came up with the graphical ideas - using nature and Pikmin as a setting.

It's not as if they said that Miyamoto developed this game alone in his garden within one week or so.

Which is not what I'm arguing anyway so yeah.
It really, really depends on what they said publicly too.
Again there seems to be a bigger problem with the whole Galaxy prototype that was alledgedly made by a 3rd party

 

[hardcastlemccormick]

And this is false, because they were working on the game BEFORE the SM found the idea in his garden.

No. No, it's not.

Here's a pretend narrative to illustrate my point.:
Miyamoto sees a prototype, unfinished, and with little development of an RTS game in 2000.
Miyamoto starts gardening in 2001.
Miyamoto puts the two concepts together (among dozens of others, some of his own and some from elsewhere) into the first design documents for Pikmin in 2002.
Game development begins shortly after.

You're assuming that when Nintendo says, "Miyamoto came up with the idea of this game" that the investors think he came up with the game mechanics, design, and concept without even touching a computer. And this is nonsense.

Which is not what I'm arguing anyway so yeah.

Yes it is. Or rather, you're arguing that the investors think this.

 

[Rhod]

Some people know I'm a dev, though.

You actually call yourselves that, huh?

 

[Mael]

No. No, it's not.

Here's a pretend narrative to illustrate my point.:
Miyamoto sees a prototype, unfinished, and with little development of an RTS game in 2000.
Miyamoto starts gardening in 2001.
Miyamoto puts the two concepts together (among dozens of others, some of his own and some from elsewhere) into the first design documents for Pikmin in 2002.
Game development begins shortly after.

You're assuming that when Nintendo says, "Miyamoto came up with the idea of this game" that the investors think he came up with the game mechanics, design, and concept without even touching a computer. And this is nonsense.



Yes it is.

You took the time to catch my edit and still came up with that?
seriously I'm not arguing that SM made the game alone in his garden or something.
I'm arguing that they're giving credit to SM about the game idea when really they should have credited the prototype to begin with.
Kinda like with SSB where they credit Sakurai for the idea, concept and all (and I'm not arguing that this story is false or anything, I'm saying they're giving the same weight on pikmin's creatiion to SM as SSB's Sakurai)